panda
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Posts: 3
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Post by panda on Nov 15, 2020 8:13:20 GMT
Morning to you, grateful for your presence. Spent yesterday reading through the threads and found some gems of wisdom!
I'm a lifelong AP (hopefully on the way to recovery as in therapy, not for the first time, but it's certainly getting to the crux of the issue I feel. Painful, mind). 51 now, feeling this is last chance saloon to sort this stuff out.
I've just this week ended an 8 month situation with a DA (he may have some FA traits but not sure). All was fine whilst we could only communicate via facetime, and socially distanced dates (and when I say fine, I mean he was absolutely ALL IN). At the end of March I went away for a few days of work and when I came back everything had changed. The day before I went away, he had been all over me, arms around me..looking forward to me getting back etc and then boom - weird and distant, withdrew sex, said he couldn't do relationships. Nonetheless, at his whim, this changed back and forth a few times throughout our connection. He is extra complex I feel as he is ex military, diagnosed with PTSD, possibly has ADHD (is waiting for a diagnosis) and I have also detected some other traits (extreme anger, not towards me but I have witnessed extreme aggression to at least two strangers and he continually talks about how useless ALL other people are). He is having therapy, whilst at the same time telling me he doesn't NEED therapy, and he has become his therapists part time gardener and builder. He smokes weed, incessantly and daily, and I have known him to buy coke (just to snort on his own, in his house), mushrooms, and DMT. As I would only see him once a week, if that, I don't know the full extent of his drug use of course. He has a phantom ex, who he sentimentalises, and yet has also told me that his feelings for her weren't "real" and that he only wanted her because he couldn't have her (no idea if she was avoidant or just triggered by his behaviour of course). He has spoken to me really badly at times, including in front of my adult children, and was hyper sensitive to perceived criticism (I once didn't like a programme we watched together - was nice about it just said it wasn't my thing - but because he had enthused about it this triggered a huge meltdown where he said I took the piss out of him). I got the silent treatment and a storm off on a country walk one day too for a reason I never did discover. Was like walking with a child. Obviously this is all the BAD stuff, he had a charming side and was funny and bright, as well as attractive to me.
So, after much patience, fantasy thinking, hoping he would change and wanting things to go back to the first few months where he was super keen and super complimentary, I finally told him this week that I can't be in touch with him. The trigger was actually some inappropriate but well intended attention from someone I DON'T want it from, which highlighted for me what a non relationship I've been engaging in and after a glass of two or wine I got the courage to end it. He told me he was sad, but would rather that he be sad than I be in pain, and he also told me that he loved me and that he had opened up to me more than anyone in his life.
So, whilst it hurts and is causing me extreme anxiety right now, I am determined that it's done and am proud of myself and I know these feelings well pass. I think the dismay for me is that I was able to conduct myself in such cognitive dissonant ways for as long as I did. I KNEW from pretty early on (when I visited his home for the first time and the CHAOS he lived in rang alarm bells, for example) that this man was quite unwell and probably not going to be good for me and yet I proceeded due to the attraction. I am also aware that he had shades of my now deceased father (non bio, and abusive), and am concerned that this is not the first time that I have been drawn to emotionally unavailable men that have traits of my my father. My childhood was a real car crash, by the way.
I'd love to receive any tips, comments or advice on this, to supplement the other "work" I am doing. I have done the rounds on the Facebook pages, (Briana etc) and have watched Thais Gibson's videos and read Attached etc.
I guess the other thing that would help is any tips on bringing my focus back to ME. I try to verbalise when I feel myself ruminating over him (what if, should I contact him, etc), and tell myself gently to focus on myself, but I'd love to hear any techniques anyone else has for doing this as it's perhaps the number one issue right now. Thank you all so much in advance!
UPDATE: The other thing that I am struggling with is this fear that he just didn't want ME, and that he will now go on to meet someone and settle and have a wonderful life. I know LOGICALLY this isn't the case, but the feelings creep back easily.
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Post by anne12 on Nov 15, 2020 9:11:49 GMT
Hi Panda Do you know if you got some desorganised attatmentstyle also ? "I KNEW from pretty early on (when I visited his home for the first time and the CHAOS he lived in rang alarm bells, for example) that this man was quite unwell and probably not going to be good for me and yet I proceeded due to the attraction. I am also aware that he had shades of my now deceased father (non bio, and abusive), and am concerned that this is not the first time that I have been drawn to emotionally unavailable men that have traits of my my father. My childhood was a real car crash, by the way."
Im asking because of the way you describe your dad and your ex relationship with your ptsd/adhd guy, can also have pushed you a little into some desorganised attatchemtstyle. The susdden rage and outburts can have an impact on your nerveussystem. Maybe you stayed because you have been used to override your own boundaries as a child ? Expecially people with some desorganised attatchment style can ignore danger signals, because they had to override their healthy and natural fight/flight responces as children because of their need to stay attatched to their parents. He dosent sound like his only got avoidant attathment style to me with his ptsd/possible adhd. Do you have any selfgeulating tools, that you use ? jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/880/self-regulating-regulation-exercises-ectBeing together with a person who is acting unpredictually can trigger natural fight, flight responces in you. But you stayed. ADHDs has a differnt social engagement system. These are some tool sugested from an attatchment/SE/love coach teacher: (from the healing abivalent attatchment thread, general disussion forum) How can the ambivalent to stop obsessive thoughts about an ex (An attatchment/SE therapist explains): Use the paradoxial chance method to accept all your feelings right now in this moment. You can search for the thread in the general discussion forum. 1: Regulate/calm down the nerveussystem - with the watertank-exersice. It works in 95% of all cases. Use it every day. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/880/self-regulating-exercises It can calm down the thoughts also!!!! Let someone help you, and after a while you can do it on your own - use it all the time when you are getting overwhelmed. Practice every day. (it is energy work, not meditation or yoga) 2: Anger - find out where did this show up with the ex partner - it can feel like anger or can feel like beeing a victim. Work with a therapist. 3: Healing of a broken hart Why all these thoughts about the ex (even a secure ex): The old history comes up in the system again (abandament is printed into the nerveussystem) - the way the ambivalent lost the first love from their parents (love=warmth, caring, nurturing, contact, love). The child have tasted Paradise, but lost it again before they "were full". The child thinks, that it is it´s own fault, and therefore the child is trying to figure out (overthinking), how to get constant love from the parent. Look at both the positive and the negative from the relationship with the ex. What was special in the relationship, was something missing from the past that played out in the relationship or and/or are you missing something in your life now? What can you do now? (The ex could be secure) When ever you think about an ex, your partner ect.: Regulate your nerveus system and then ask: "What about ME, what do I want and need right now? Focus back to you. Do something good for yourself instead. You can put post it notes all around your home - even in the fridge - where it says: "I choose to xxx". This can help you to remember that you always have a choise. The rubberband exercise on how to stop obsessive thoughts and your inner chritic: Put a rubber band on your wrist. Everytime you think about your ex ect. you pull the rubber and. This gives your system a micro shock. What does Thais Gibson and Breene sugest you to do ?And what does your therapist suggest ? (Does your therapist knows about SE ?) |
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panda
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by panda on Nov 15, 2020 9:51:18 GMT
Hi Panda Do you know if you got some desorganised attatmentstyle also ? "I KNEW from pretty early on (when I visited his home for the first time and the CHAOS he lived in rang alarm bells, for example) that this man was quite unwell and probably not going to be good for me and yet I proceeded due to the attraction. I am also aware that he had shades of my now deceased father (non bio, and abusive), and am concerned that this is not the first time that I have been drawn to emotionally unavailable men that have traits of my my father. My childhood was a real car crash, by the way."
Im asking because of the way you describe your dad and your ex relationship with your ptsd/adhd guy, can also have pushed you a little into some desorganised attatchemtstyle. The susdden rage and outburts can have an impact on your nerveussystem. Maybe you stayed because you have been used to override your own boundaries as a child ? Expecially people with some desorganised attatchment style can ignore danger signals, because they had to override their healthy and natural fight/flight responces as children because their need for attatchment to their parents. Do you have any selfgeulating tools, that you use ? jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/880/self-regulating-regulation-exercises-ectBeing together with a person who is acting unpredictually can trigger natural fight, flight responces in you. But you stayed. ADHDs has a differnt social engagement system. These are some tool sugested from an attatchment/SE/love coach teacher: (from the healing abivalent attatchment thread, general disussion forum) How can the ambivalent to stop obsessive thoughts about an ex (An attatchment/SE therapist explains): Use the paradoxial chance method to accept all your feelings right now in this moment. You can search for the thread in the general discussion forum. 1: Regulate/calm down the nerveussystem - with the watertank-exersice. It works in 95% of all cases. Use it every day. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/880/self-regulating-exercises It can calm down the thoughts also!!!! Let someone help you, and after a while you can do it on your own - use it all the time when you are getting overwhelmed. Practice every day. (it is energy work, not meditation or yoga) 2: Anger - find out where did this show up with the ex partner - it can feel like anger or can feel like beeing a victim. Work with a therapist. 3: Healing of a broken hart Why all these thoughts about the ex (even a secure ex): The old history comes up in the system again (abandament is printed into the nerveussystem) - the way the ambivalent lost the first love from their parents (love=warmth, caring, nurturing, contact, love). The child have tasted Paradise, but lost it again before they "were full". The child thinks, that it is it´s own fault, and therefore the child is trying to figure out (overthinking), how to get constant love from the parent. Look at both the positive and the negative from the relationship with the ex. What was special in the relationship, was something missing from the past that played out in the relationship or and/or are you missing something in your life now? What can you do now? (The ex could be secure) When ever you think about an ex, your partner ect.: Regulate your nerveus system and then ask: "What about ME, what do I want and need right now? Focus back to you. Do something good for yourself instead. You can put post it notes all around your home - even in the fridge - where it says: "I choose to xxx". This can help you to remember that you always have a choise. The rubberband exercise on how to stop obsessive thoughts and your inner chritic: Put a rubber band on your wrist. Everytime you think about your ex ect. you pull the rubber and. This gives your system a micro shock. What does Thais Gibson and Breene sugest you to do ?And what does your therapist suggest ? (Does your therapist knows about SE ?) Thank you so much for that wonderful reply, I am going to check out those exercises. Yes I think I can be a little disorganised in my attachment style, you are right. Sorry, what is SE? My nervous system feels extremely overwhelmed, and I am trying to focus on the breathing exercises that my therapist taught me, which help and am about to go for a big old walk in the rain which I know will help also. |
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Post by anne12 on Nov 15, 2020 10:15:42 GMT
SE = somatic expericing originaly developed by Peter Levine. It is used by different SE/attatchment workers around the world.
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 15, 2020 12:41:33 GMT
Morning to you, grateful for your presence. Spent yesterday reading through the threads and found some gems of wisdom! I'm a lifelong AP (hopefully on the way to recovery as in therapy, not for the first time, but it's certainly getting to the crux of the issue I feel. Painful, mind). 51 now, feeling this is last chance saloon to sort this stuff out. I've just this week ended an 8 month situation with a DA (he may have some FA traits but not sure). All was fine whilst we could only communicate via facetime, and socially distanced dates (and when I say fine, I mean he was absolutely ALL IN). At the end of March I went away for a few days of work and when I came back everything had changed. The day before I went away, he had been all over me, arms around me..looking forward to me getting back etc and then boom - weird and distant, withdrew sex, said he couldn't do relationships. Nonetheless, at his whim, this changed back and forth a few times throughout our connection. He is extra complex I feel as he is ex military, diagnosed with PTSD, possibly has ADHD (is waiting for a diagnosis) and I have also detected some other traits (extreme anger, not towards me but I have witnessed extreme aggression to at least two strangers and he continually talks about how useless ALL other people are). He is having therapy, whilst at the same time telling me he doesn't NEED therapy, and he has become his therapists part time gardener and builder. He smokes weed, incessantly and daily, and I have known him to buy coke (just to snort on his own, in his house), mushrooms, and DMT. As I would only see him once a week, if that, I don't know the full extent of his drug use of course. He has a phantom ex, who he sentimentalises, and yet has also told me that his feelings for her weren't "real" and that he only wanted her because he couldn't have her (no idea if she was avoidant or just triggered by his behaviour of course). He has spoken to me really badly at times, including in front of my adult children, and was hyper sensitive to perceived criticism (I once didn't like a programme we watched together - was nice about it just said it wasn't my thing - but because he had enthused about it this triggered a huge meltdown where he said I took the piss out of him). I got the silent treatment and a storm off on a country walk one day too for a reason I never did discover. Was like walking with a child. Obviously this is all the BAD stuff, he had a charming side and was funny and bright, as well as attractive to me. So, after much patience, fantasy thinking, hoping he would change and wanting things to go back to the first few months where he was super keen and super complimentary, I finally told him this week that I can't be in touch with him. The trigger was actually some inappropriate but well intended attention from someone I DON'T want it from, which highlighted for me what a non relationship I've been engaging in and after a glass of two or wine I got the courage to end it. He told me he was sad, but would rather that he be sad than I be in pain, and he also told me that he loved me and that he had opened up to me more than anyone in his life. So, whilst it hurts and is causing me extreme anxiety right now, I am determined that it's done and am proud of myself and I know these feelings well pass. I think the dismay for me is that I was able to conduct myself in such cognitive dissonant ways for as long as I did. I KNEW from pretty early on (when I visited his home for the first time and the CHAOS he lived in rang alarm bells, for example) that this man was quite unwell and probably not going to be good for me and yet I proceeded due to the attraction. I am also aware that he had shades of my now deceased father (non bio, and abusive), and am concerned that this is not the first time that I have been drawn to emotionally unavailable men that have traits of my my father. My childhood was a real car crash, by the way. I'd love to receive any tips, comments or advice on this, to supplement the other "work" I am doing. I have done the rounds on the Facebook pages, (Briana etc) and have watched Thais Gibson's videos and read Attached etc. I guess the other thing that would help is any tips on bringing my focus back to ME. I try to verbalise when I feel myself ruminating over him (what if, should I contact him, etc), and tell myself gently to focus on myself, but I'd love to hear any techniques anyone else has for doing this as it's perhaps the number one issue right now. Thank you all so much in advance! UPDATE: The other thing that I am struggling with is this fear that he just didn't want ME, and that he will now go on to meet someone and settle and have a wonderful life. I know LOGICALLY this isn't the case, but the feelings creep back easily. Hi there...welcome to the forums. I answered your other post under DA. I do believe he is FA, but he has so much else going on. So...to alleviate those “he is going to move on and have just the perfect life with someone else” concerns. People do not magically change with a different partner....if he has PTSD, ADHD and drug use..there is a lot going on with him that needs therapy and medication. He will likely have a different relationship depending on his new partner’s attachment past....but he won’t have the fantasy relationship you have created in your head. By the way,.....I did that too with the guy I dated. When he broke up with me I created this whole story in my head of how perfect his next relationship would be..,how she would succeed where I failed etc. It is really important that you call that out as a story.....because you can’t really know or predict his future. One thing I would suggest...is to have your serotonin checked. I had a very astute doctor notice that I was struggling with my emotions and she put me on an SSRI and it has been a miracle for me.....I truly wish I had started taking it decades ago. What it has done for me is provided me with a way to look at things without getting sucked into a vortex of my emotions. It provides me with a “pause” as I call it...allowing me to access my reason center so I can look at a situation more logically and make more appropriate choices. I also am in therapy with a counselor with a background in SE. I think SE therapy is so helpful for people with AP (or AP leaning FAs) because we tend to ignore the signals from our body and are way more in touch with our feelings. Getting in touch with the blockers in your body can lead to some great insight. For instance.....I am a lifelong teeth clencher and grinder....and my therapist and I discovered that was due to me feeling like I had “no voice” in my family. Ever since that discovery, I don’t clench my jaw as much and I try to be mindful that when I do..it means I do not feel heard. We are still working on why I clench one or both hands at times...but I suspect it has to do with not wanting to let go.....when a “choice” has been removed. I often clench my hand when I think about or miss B (the guy I dated) because his break up with me felt like a lost choice....very similar to how my parents divorce felt like a lost choice. As to your comments about feeling as if he never loved you...just remember that avoidant (even avoidant leaning FAs) express pain differently. Your breaking up with him probably triggered some wounding in him and he is simply reacting to that very differently then you would. Finding these boards is the first step.....the journey is ahead of you.  |
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Post by lovebunny on Nov 16, 2020 0:49:28 GMT
Sounds to me, Panda, like you are self-aware, intelligent, and trust in yourself. Brava!
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Post by annieb on Nov 16, 2020 14:54:01 GMT
Hey panda. It’s great you are on these boards as you will track your individual progress through your own posts. For most of us a relationship with an avoidant what really held a mirror to our face to finally start exploring why we avoided to love ourselves for so long. Self acceptance and self love seemed like foreign concepts, only available to healthy individuals, who got it from their parents. Well, guess what, your can also get it yourself through individual therapy. We can all get there, but we take a little detour. Nevertheless, once you grasp that feeling of self love, you will not be able to let it go. Sure you will feel insecure now and then, but that core belief that you are self lovable, once you feel it, you will not forget it and you will always go to that baseline from then on.
The avoidant (regardless of you yourself qualify as AP or something else entirely) triggers in us everything familial and unlovable, and we chase their love by the virtue of trying to change them. Similar to our primary caregiver who taught us this schema. This was a survival mechanism for us growing up, but it doesn’t have to be our present, in fact it’s a rather outdated way of coping that no longer serves us.
So instead of changing (fixing) the avoidant, we have to focus on the real avoidant - our selves. And change from a self avoidance to self acceptance. At the beginning you’ll go back and forth a bit, but at a certain point of practicing self love the pendulum will start swinging in the opposite direction and you will no longer choose to be in that self avoidance space.
I had been in therapy for about 6 months, when I sat down in my room one day and said : I love myself and I love everything around me that I had created. It was for the first time in 39 years. I’ve had a few bad days since then, but it’s been a year since then and I never faltered in that self acceptance and kindness space. When I look in the mirror I see kindness and I give that person kindness. When I interact with others I first take care of my own state of mind so that I can be kind to them. It may seem a bit narcissistic at first, feel like it almost, but it’s not.
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