Post by ziggy1985 on Dec 19, 2020 17:58:31 GMT
I've had a very long on and off relationship with a man (going back 15-20 years). When it started he made it very clear that although he cared about me and we were friends, that he could offer nothing more than (secret) sex. We were both single at the time and him saying that hurt, but for some reason I still don't understand, I agreed to it. We had an incredibly intense time together and a great rapport, but all through this time he kept talking about other women he wanted and could fall in love with. Again this hurt, but for some reason I don't understand, I stuck around. I never ever asked for any other type of relationship and never pushed for anything more. It seemed to me that all he wanted was the sexual relationship and he couldn't care less about me as a person. At some point this dynamic felt too painful for me and I ghosted him (I'm not proud of this).
After I ghosted him he made numerous attempts to reach out, but they were always about him, what he wanted etc. I never responded, I deleted all e-mails, messages and texts as they arrived. This went on for a good few years. Eventually he stopped reaching out and I thought no more about him. A few years ago I reached out to him to say hi. I'm not sure what triggered this in me. He was ecstatic and over the next few years we developed a friendly rapport, got used to often talking to each other via messages etc. We didn't talk on the phone and we didn't meet, though after a point he wanted to do both and I was resistant. I have to also say here that we live very far from each other now - 3/4 hours by plane.
Last year we started talking on the phone. Shortly after that he made sexual advances. Intimacy was rising, sexual chemistry was rising, a friendly rapport was continuing and a few months ago we met. Everything seemed to be going ok, although I noticed strange things like when we had a vulnerable or long phone call he would go awol for 3-4 days afterwards. We both wanted to arrange a get together in the summer. This was when things started getting really odd. He suddenly became paralysed with what seemed like indifference but he later has said was fear and insecurity, couldn't coordinate a meeting, couldn't find dates, couldn't do anything really. After days of weirdness, aloofness, coldness he broke down, he said he was paralysed by insecurity and fear, he was feeling incredibly insecure and couldn't make a move and could I please go to him. I said sure. I went to where he lives and we had a really wonderful time. We arranged to meet another few times (I initiated the idea each time, he was enthusiastic about it though). Well...he grew progressively more odd with each time we met. He started saying again I'm his secret. That we'll have casual sex, friendly sex but he cannot have a relationship, he just can't. It seemed like he would almost go into an automatic panic of some kind whenever he brought this up. I have said I don't want anything more than what we currently have (which is true), but that this *is* a relationship. He can seem receptive to this for a while, being very warm and sweet, calling me sweet names, saying he loves me, we fit and he wants to be together forever etc and then will suddenly revert to a cold, distant, shutting down, dismissing version of himself who will say things like what do we have between us? just some good sex or say that we must not give this more value than the fact that we have a good time with each other. He will then say "I feel like you want more than I can give you" and will call the relationship a friendship again. It's like whiplash. When he says these dismissive, quite offensive, distancing things I remain very calm and logical (outwardly, they're quite hurtful inwardly). I tend to ask what more do you think I want, calmly explain I don't want anything else, I may point out that he's being dismissing/distancing but I am generally very neutral with him (I don't get angry or show emotion when he gets like that). He will then return and "act" apologetic, wanting to be closer, although he will never own up to stuff verbally or actually apologise. He will also often have emotional "outbursts" is the only way to describe them where he seems incredibly vulnerable and he will talk about what I mean to him and how much he loves me and wants to be with me etc etc. He has said during these outbursts he also felt like that in the past - even though he showed nothing of the sort in the past at all in any way.
Then there's things like he will say he doesn't want an exclusive relationship, he can't have one. I will say not to worry, I'm ok if he sees other people. A few days later will say he isn't seeing anyone else and could never and is that ok? I'll say sure. He will then go back to saying he doesn't want an exclusive relationship. These behaviours have escalated as we've seen each other more and gotten closer. Or... he will be very very sexual for a bit, if it leads to increased intimacy he will stop being sexual completely, like a shutdown, and ignore any hints coming from me. When I start distancing he will then revert to being sexual again... Another thing that's arisen is that every time we agree to go on a "getaway" he will somehow 'sabotage' it through his behaviours either during the getaway or before. I don't think this is conscious and it wasn't present at all the first few times, it's become present as intimacy and closeness have risen. He will then contact me and say he keeps letting me down and I'm all he wants, that he doesn't know why he cannot make a move, why he's like this, etc etc etc, but it's like he cannot change what he's doing for some reason.
A few weeks ago we decided to meet again (I initiated the conversation). He initially seemed very receptive and into the conversation and seemed willing to even meet halfway (a first). As time went on this was replaced by a number of creative excuses as to why I had to go to where he lives again and why he couldn't make a move again. I said sure and booked the getaway. He then had another distancing, dismissive freak out again, said this is just good sex and good company in a friendly relationship and we shouldn't give it any more value than that. It seemed like he didn't even want to meet really. I remained calm, pointed out he was being incredibly dismissive and said I do not want anything more than what we currently have. He calmed down, almost like a switch turning off and acted apologetic, saying of course it's not a friendly relationship and he would be open to his views on relationships changing etc. He however was still not quite "right", not warm or sweet and he didn't seem enthusiastic about meeting; it felt (from my side) more like pulling teeth. This pattern had happened way too many times and I was feeling rejected and dismissed and just not good. Time came for me to go for this getaway and I...didn't. I apologised to him, said I couldn't go and didn't explain anything further. He then began chasing, suddenly becoming warm and sweet again.
As a person he's a complete workaholic, very sociable, with excellent social skills on the surface and seems like an easy going guy outwardly, but actually very much a loner and isolated with very very very few friends. He says he has very low self esteem. He's had a couple of long term relationships over the years, that ended really badly (according to him). He says everyone he's been with has a lot of complaints about him and the way he acts and is and that he always ends up disappointed by people. He will say he doesn't want a relationship, he wants to be on his own, he wants no one. A few days later he will say he wants a relationship, wants to live with someone, wants to get married - but when he says this it's almost like a secret, like something he's ashamed of wanting and that it pains him to reveal. I have no other info about his romantic history.
I think I'm a generally securely attached person, but I genuinely feel like I have emotional whiplash from all this. I'm also finding myself reacting in strange ways to him, like emotionally shutting down when he gets dismissive/distancing - which isn't like me at all. I can see he's petrified of commitment in that he's reacting even though I'm really not asking for a commitment. I was reading about attachment styles and wondered if he sounds like a fearful or dismissive avoidant? If so, is there any hope at all here of things improving or is the thing to do to just walk away? I genuinely care about this man, but this is all just exhausting...
Ziggy
After I ghosted him he made numerous attempts to reach out, but they were always about him, what he wanted etc. I never responded, I deleted all e-mails, messages and texts as they arrived. This went on for a good few years. Eventually he stopped reaching out and I thought no more about him. A few years ago I reached out to him to say hi. I'm not sure what triggered this in me. He was ecstatic and over the next few years we developed a friendly rapport, got used to often talking to each other via messages etc. We didn't talk on the phone and we didn't meet, though after a point he wanted to do both and I was resistant. I have to also say here that we live very far from each other now - 3/4 hours by plane.
Last year we started talking on the phone. Shortly after that he made sexual advances. Intimacy was rising, sexual chemistry was rising, a friendly rapport was continuing and a few months ago we met. Everything seemed to be going ok, although I noticed strange things like when we had a vulnerable or long phone call he would go awol for 3-4 days afterwards. We both wanted to arrange a get together in the summer. This was when things started getting really odd. He suddenly became paralysed with what seemed like indifference but he later has said was fear and insecurity, couldn't coordinate a meeting, couldn't find dates, couldn't do anything really. After days of weirdness, aloofness, coldness he broke down, he said he was paralysed by insecurity and fear, he was feeling incredibly insecure and couldn't make a move and could I please go to him. I said sure. I went to where he lives and we had a really wonderful time. We arranged to meet another few times (I initiated the idea each time, he was enthusiastic about it though). Well...he grew progressively more odd with each time we met. He started saying again I'm his secret. That we'll have casual sex, friendly sex but he cannot have a relationship, he just can't. It seemed like he would almost go into an automatic panic of some kind whenever he brought this up. I have said I don't want anything more than what we currently have (which is true), but that this *is* a relationship. He can seem receptive to this for a while, being very warm and sweet, calling me sweet names, saying he loves me, we fit and he wants to be together forever etc and then will suddenly revert to a cold, distant, shutting down, dismissing version of himself who will say things like what do we have between us? just some good sex or say that we must not give this more value than the fact that we have a good time with each other. He will then say "I feel like you want more than I can give you" and will call the relationship a friendship again. It's like whiplash. When he says these dismissive, quite offensive, distancing things I remain very calm and logical (outwardly, they're quite hurtful inwardly). I tend to ask what more do you think I want, calmly explain I don't want anything else, I may point out that he's being dismissing/distancing but I am generally very neutral with him (I don't get angry or show emotion when he gets like that). He will then return and "act" apologetic, wanting to be closer, although he will never own up to stuff verbally or actually apologise. He will also often have emotional "outbursts" is the only way to describe them where he seems incredibly vulnerable and he will talk about what I mean to him and how much he loves me and wants to be with me etc etc. He has said during these outbursts he also felt like that in the past - even though he showed nothing of the sort in the past at all in any way.
Then there's things like he will say he doesn't want an exclusive relationship, he can't have one. I will say not to worry, I'm ok if he sees other people. A few days later will say he isn't seeing anyone else and could never and is that ok? I'll say sure. He will then go back to saying he doesn't want an exclusive relationship. These behaviours have escalated as we've seen each other more and gotten closer. Or... he will be very very sexual for a bit, if it leads to increased intimacy he will stop being sexual completely, like a shutdown, and ignore any hints coming from me. When I start distancing he will then revert to being sexual again... Another thing that's arisen is that every time we agree to go on a "getaway" he will somehow 'sabotage' it through his behaviours either during the getaway or before. I don't think this is conscious and it wasn't present at all the first few times, it's become present as intimacy and closeness have risen. He will then contact me and say he keeps letting me down and I'm all he wants, that he doesn't know why he cannot make a move, why he's like this, etc etc etc, but it's like he cannot change what he's doing for some reason.
A few weeks ago we decided to meet again (I initiated the conversation). He initially seemed very receptive and into the conversation and seemed willing to even meet halfway (a first). As time went on this was replaced by a number of creative excuses as to why I had to go to where he lives again and why he couldn't make a move again. I said sure and booked the getaway. He then had another distancing, dismissive freak out again, said this is just good sex and good company in a friendly relationship and we shouldn't give it any more value than that. It seemed like he didn't even want to meet really. I remained calm, pointed out he was being incredibly dismissive and said I do not want anything more than what we currently have. He calmed down, almost like a switch turning off and acted apologetic, saying of course it's not a friendly relationship and he would be open to his views on relationships changing etc. He however was still not quite "right", not warm or sweet and he didn't seem enthusiastic about meeting; it felt (from my side) more like pulling teeth. This pattern had happened way too many times and I was feeling rejected and dismissed and just not good. Time came for me to go for this getaway and I...didn't. I apologised to him, said I couldn't go and didn't explain anything further. He then began chasing, suddenly becoming warm and sweet again.
As a person he's a complete workaholic, very sociable, with excellent social skills on the surface and seems like an easy going guy outwardly, but actually very much a loner and isolated with very very very few friends. He says he has very low self esteem. He's had a couple of long term relationships over the years, that ended really badly (according to him). He says everyone he's been with has a lot of complaints about him and the way he acts and is and that he always ends up disappointed by people. He will say he doesn't want a relationship, he wants to be on his own, he wants no one. A few days later he will say he wants a relationship, wants to live with someone, wants to get married - but when he says this it's almost like a secret, like something he's ashamed of wanting and that it pains him to reveal. I have no other info about his romantic history.
I think I'm a generally securely attached person, but I genuinely feel like I have emotional whiplash from all this. I'm also finding myself reacting in strange ways to him, like emotionally shutting down when he gets dismissive/distancing - which isn't like me at all. I can see he's petrified of commitment in that he's reacting even though I'm really not asking for a commitment. I was reading about attachment styles and wondered if he sounds like a fearful or dismissive avoidant? If so, is there any hope at all here of things improving or is the thing to do to just walk away? I genuinely care about this man, but this is all just exhausting...
Ziggy