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Post by armadillo5000 on Feb 1, 2021 15:04:17 GMT
So I've been in a relationship with this wonderful DA for a year or so. Everything was perfect until recently, because I knew what he was like before we even started talking, so I never asked for more attention and knew that the fact that he was talking to me every day was a miracle. But then I guess he sometimes wanted a tiny bit more space and my anxious nature took over and I started trying to keep things same, so clasic scenario began. He was getting more and more distant and I was getting more and more anxious, then he said he'd like to not call every day, and expalined that it doesn't mean that he doesn't want me anymore, so it was fine by me. We agreed to just have days where we don't call and I was trying to talk about some compromises where we could message more. Anyway, after that I was being quiet for couple days and he initiated the call first, and was very sweet, it was really nice, that really made me feel like everything is perfect. However after that I was still being quiet as I wasn't sure if he wanted to call so I was waiting for him to say it, and he wouldn't say anything too and so we didn't talk at all for a week. Then I sent him a message just asking how he was doing, he replied asking same, but now doesn't reply yet. I don't know what I should do, I don't know how long it's okay to not talk to your partner in this situation, I don't know if I should just keep being quiet or let him know I'm here, or what? I'm afraid to ask him about it because it seems like it would put more pressure on him which I now see he had enough of lately. Or should I apologies for being demanding? What should I do? I don't want to push him away even further. I'm not even anxious anymore, I'm just confused. I know it's a difficult situation and many people would rather just leave but he's worth some efforts and I'm not leaving him.
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 1, 2021 17:40:18 GMT
So I've been in a relationship with this wonderful DA for a year or so. Everything was perfect until recently, because I knew what he was like before we even started talking, so I never asked for more attention and knew that the fact that he was talking to me every day was a miracle. But then I guess he sometimes wanted a tiny bit more space and my anxious nature took over and I started trying to keep things same, so clasic scenario began. He was getting more and more distant and I was getting more and more anxious, then he said he'd like to not call every day, and expalined that it doesn't mean that he doesn't want me anymore, so it was fine by me. We agreed to just have days where we don't call and I was trying to talk about some compromises where we could message more. Anyway, after that I was being quiet for couple days and he initiated the call first, and was very sweet, it was really nice, that really made me feel like everything is perfect. However after that I was still being quiet as I wasn't sure if he wanted to call so I was waiting for him to say it, and he wouldn't say anything too and so we didn't talk at all for a week. Then I sent him a message just asking how he was doing, he replied asking same, but now doesn't reply yet. I don't know what I should do, I don't know how long it's okay to not talk to your partner in this situation, I don't know if I should just keep being quiet or let him know I'm here, or what? I'm afraid to ask him about it because it seems like it would put more pressure on him which I now see he had enough of lately. Or should I apologies for being demanding? What should I do? I don't want to push him away even further. I'm not even anxious anymore, I'm just confused. I know it's a difficult situation and many people would rather just leave but he's worth some efforts and I'm not leaving him. Hi there...welcome to these forums. I know you say he is wonderful and that you knew he was avoidant when you started dating him....but it sounds as if you are letting him determine the relationship boundaries while you are having to manage the anxiety that you feel for not knowing where things are. I too have been in a relationship with an avoidant so I completely get the fear and concern about whether reaching out for support is safe. I will say that bottling up my concerns and trying to clench through my anxiety did not work for me. I think it is completely fair and well within your realm as his girlfriend to ask him how much time he considers acceptable for responses. We all get busy, but he should at least give you a general sense of his availability. Example...if he is busy....can he just send you an emoji to let you know he saw the text so you can feel a bit at ease. Is a two day window sufficient for a reply? |
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Post by armadillo5000 on Feb 1, 2021 18:49:11 GMT
So I've been in a relationship with this wonderful DA for a year or so. Everything was perfect until recently, because I knew what he was like before we even started talking, so I never asked for more attention and knew that the fact that he was talking to me every day was a miracle. But then I guess he sometimes wanted a tiny bit more space and my anxious nature took over and I started trying to keep things same, so clasic scenario began. He was getting more and more distant and I was getting more and more anxious, then he said he'd like to not call every day, and expalined that it doesn't mean that he doesn't want me anymore, so it was fine by me. We agreed to just have days where we don't call and I was trying to talk about some compromises where we could message more. Anyway, after that I was being quiet for couple days and he initiated the call first, and was very sweet, it was really nice, that really made me feel like everything is perfect. However after that I was still being quiet as I wasn't sure if he wanted to call so I was waiting for him to say it, and he wouldn't say anything too and so we didn't talk at all for a week. Then I sent him a message just asking how he was doing, he replied asking same, but now doesn't reply yet. I don't know what I should do, I don't know how long it's okay to not talk to your partner in this situation, I don't know if I should just keep being quiet or let him know I'm here, or what? I'm afraid to ask him about it because it seems like it would put more pressure on him which I now see he had enough of lately. Or should I apologies for being demanding? What should I do? I don't want to push him away even further. I'm not even anxious anymore, I'm just confused. I know it's a difficult situation and many people would rather just leave but he's worth some efforts and I'm not leaving him. Hi there...welcome to these forums. I know you say he is wonderful and that you knew he was avoidant when you started dating him....but it sounds as if you are letting him determine the relationship boundaries while you are having to manage the anxiety that you feel for not knowing where things are. I too have been in a relationship with an avoidant so I completely get the fear and concern about whether reaching out for support is safe. I will say that bottling up my concerns and trying to clench through my anxiety did not work for me. I think it is completely fair and well within your realm as his girlfriend to ask him how much time he considers acceptable for responses. We all get busy, but he should at least give you a general sense of his availability. Example...if he is busy....can he just send you an emoji to let you know he saw the text so you can feel a bit at ease. Is a two day window sufficient for a reply? Hi, thank you for your reply! This is not exactly the problem, I have no problems whatsoever with him not replying straight away, it's actually quite refreshing. The problem is that we haven't talked for a week at all, and it's never been like that before so I guess what I need to understand is if it's normal for a DA to not talk for such amount of time after feeling trapped. And how do I make it better. Sure we need to get better at communicating but we're not bad at it, he just rather hide himself than tell me something that might upset me. We'll work on it, I believe it'll be fine, but what do I do right now... Because to set boundaries or anything like that, we first need to go back to where we would talk normally and he would feel safe. If he's feeling uncomfortable now and I just come to him with this sort of conversation he might just run away completely, am I not right? |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 1, 2021 21:35:44 GMT
Hi there...welcome to these forums. I know you say he is wonderful and that you knew he was avoidant when you started dating him....but it sounds as if you are letting him determine the relationship boundaries while you are having to manage the anxiety that you feel for not knowing where things are. I too have been in a relationship with an avoidant so I completely get the fear and concern about whether reaching out for support is safe. I will say that bottling up my concerns and trying to clench through my anxiety did not work for me. I think it is completely fair and well within your realm as his girlfriend to ask him how much time he considers acceptable for responses. We all get busy, but he should at least give you a general sense of his availability. Example...if he is busy....can he just send you an emoji to let you know he saw the text so you can feel a bit at ease. Is a two day window sufficient for a reply? Hi, thank you for your reply! This is not exactly the problem, I have no problems whatsoever with him not replying straight away, it's actually quite refreshing. The problem is that we haven't talked for a week at all, and it's never been like that before so I guess what I need to understand is if it's normal for a DA to not talk for such amount of time after feeling trapped. And how do I make it better. Sure we need to get better at communicating but we're not bad at it, he just rather hide himself than tell me something that might upset me. We'll work on it, I believe it'll be fine, but what do I do right now... Because to set boundaries or anything like that, we first need to go back to where we would talk normally and he would feel safe. If he's feeling uncomfortable now and I just come to him with this sort of conversation he might just run away completely, am I not right? Sooo....I can say that when I dated the DA leaning FA, there were some times that he did not respond for several days and although I acted like it was ok....it really wasn’t. Here is what I am concerned about...you say you are ok and it is refreshing when he does not respond immediately...but it seems you have a personal limit where it stops feeling ok and starts to worry you. I don’t think asking if this is normal for a DA is the right question. I think the question is...am I ok if I don’t here from him and he hasn’t given me any indication whether we are ok or not ok. That is a question to pose back to him. Personally, I will not date anyone who leaves communication so unclear or I fear losing him because I ask questions. I don’t understand why it is not ok for him to feel uncomfortable...but somehow it is supposed to feel ok for you to feel uncomfortable. Isn’t that a bit selfish of him? |
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Post by armadillo5000 on Feb 1, 2021 21:47:04 GMT
Hi, thank you for your reply! This is not exactly the problem, I have no problems whatsoever with him not replying straight away, it's actually quite refreshing. The problem is that we haven't talked for a week at all, and it's never been like that before so I guess what I need to understand is if it's normal for a DA to not talk for such amount of time after feeling trapped. And how do I make it better. Sure we need to get better at communicating but we're not bad at it, he just rather hide himself than tell me something that might upset me. We'll work on it, I believe it'll be fine, but what do I do right now... Because to set boundaries or anything like that, we first need to go back to where we would talk normally and he would feel safe. If he's feeling uncomfortable now and I just come to him with this sort of conversation he might just run away completely, am I not right? Sooo....I can say that when I dated the DA leaning FA, there were some times that he did not respond for several days and although I acted like it was ok....it really wasn’t. Here is what I am concerned about...you say you are ok and it is refreshing when he does not respond immediately...but it seems you have a personal limit where it stops feeling ok and starts to worry you. I don’t think asking if this is normal for a DA is the right question. I think the question is...am I ok if I don’t here from him and he hasn’t given me any indication whether we are ok or not ok. That is a question to pose back to him. Personally, I will not date anyone who leaves communication so unclear. Well it's not norm, it's after some changes that happened and he clearly needs to recharge. But I understand that he needs that. It's not only about me, he has feelings and needs too. And after considering them less than my own I now want to make him feel safe again |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 2, 2021 4:15:46 GMT
Sooo....I can say that when I dated the DA leaning FA, there were some times that he did not respond for several days and although I acted like it was ok....it really wasn’t. Here is what I am concerned about...you say you are ok and it is refreshing when he does not respond immediately...but it seems you have a personal limit where it stops feeling ok and starts to worry you. I don’t think asking if this is normal for a DA is the right question. I think the question is...am I ok if I don’t here from him and he hasn’t given me any indication whether we are ok or not ok. That is a question to pose back to him. Personally, I will not date anyone who leaves communication so unclear. Well it's not norm, it's after some changes that happened and he clearly needs to recharge. But I understand that he needs that. It's not only about me, he has feelings and needs too. And after considering them less than my own I now want to make him feel safe again Yeh..buuuuuut....is he considering your feelings as much as you are considering his? Relationships work when both people are thinking about the other person as well as themself.....What I am not hearing is how he is addressing your needs.. Also..if he needs to feel safe again...he sounds more like an avoidant leaning FA rather then a DA. |
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Post by armadillo5000 on Feb 2, 2021 11:35:31 GMT
Well it's not norm, it's after some changes that happened and he clearly needs to recharge. But I understand that he needs that. It's not only about me, he has feelings and needs too. And after considering them less than my own I now want to make him feel safe again Yeh..buuuuuut....is he considering your feelings as much as you are considering his? Relationships work when both people are thinking about the other person as well as themself.....What I am not hearing is how he is addressing your needs.. Also..if he needs to feel safe again...he sounds more like an avoidant leaning FA rather then a DA. The whole problem started because he was considering my feelings more than his own. He knew I wanted to call every day so he did it even when he didn't feel like it, which is why he is so exhausted now. I don't think he's FA, he never acted like one at all, he's a very typical DA, and it's normal for them to feel in danger if they don't get enough space. |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 2, 2021 16:30:53 GMT
Yeh..buuuuuut....is he considering your feelings as much as you are considering his? Relationships work when both people are thinking about the other person as well as themself.....What I am not hearing is how he is addressing your needs.. Also..if he needs to feel safe again...he sounds more like an avoidant leaning FA rather then a DA. The whole problem started because he was considering my feelings more than his own. He knew I wanted to call every day so he did it even when he didn't feel like it, which is why he is so exhausted now. I don't think he's FA, he never acted like one at all, he's a very typical DA, and it's normal for them to feel in danger if they don't get enough space. Honestly, if he was considering your feelings more then his own at one point...that is a typical FA. An FA will bounce back and forth between AP and DA.....it is like a pendulum that swings too far one side and too far the other. The point is....and I think I haven’t explained it well at all...the fact that you are here...trying to figure out if what he is doing is normal indicates that you have some level of concern and that would best be addressed by discussing it with him. Attachment theory does not explain everything and though there are patterns of behavior....each person has their own history...thus 2 DAs will not be the same...2 FAs will not be the same and 2 APs will not be the same. Has he reached out yet? |
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Post by armadillo5000 on Feb 6, 2021 22:57:02 GMT
The whole problem started because he was considering my feelings more than his own. He knew I wanted to call every day so he did it even when he didn't feel like it, which is why he is so exhausted now. I don't think he's FA, he never acted like one at all, he's a very typical DA, and it's normal for them to feel in danger if they don't get enough space. Honestly, if he was considering your feelings more then his own at one point...that is a typical FA. An FA will bounce back and forth between AP and DA.....it is like a pendulum that swings too far one side and too far the other. The point is....and I think I haven’t explained it well at all...the fact that you are here...trying to figure out if what he is doing is normal indicates that you have some level of concern and that would best be addressed by discussing it with him. Attachment theory does not explain everything and though there are patterns of behavior....each person has their own history...thus 2 DAs will not be the same...2 FAs will not be the same and 2 APs will not be the same. Has he reached out yet? That's interesting, but shouldn't FA be at least sometimes a bit emotional? I mean negative emotions while arguing or something. And not seem so chill literally all the time? But anyway, yeah he told me about his thoughts and feelings, it seems like he's not sure himself if the way he is is ideal so I believe we can sort it out and make it work  |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 6, 2021 23:14:18 GMT
No one "should" be anything. It's quite possible that in his household growing up, emotions were frowned upon or ignored or ridiculed or even punished, therefore suppression was learned. Or he's constantly triggered avoidant and not emoting.
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 7, 2021 0:26:41 GMT
Honestly, if he was considering your feelings more then his own at one point...that is a typical FA. An FA will bounce back and forth between AP and DA.....it is like a pendulum that swings too far one side and too far the other. The point is....and I think I haven’t explained it well at all...the fact that you are here...trying to figure out if what he is doing is normal indicates that you have some level of concern and that would best be addressed by discussing it with him. Attachment theory does not explain everything and though there are patterns of behavior....each person has their own history...thus 2 DAs will not be the same...2 FAs will not be the same and 2 APs will not be the same. Has he reached out yet? That's interesting, but shouldn't FA be at least sometimes a bit emotional? I mean negative emotions while arguing or something. And not seem so chill literally all the time? But anyway, yeah he told me about his thoughts and feelings, it seems like he's not sure himself if the way he is is ideal so I believe we can sort it out and make it work Chill can sometimes mean tuned out....it can meaning numbing yourself or suppressing feelings because it wasn’t safe to have feelings. It is great you believe the two of you can make it work...what does he say? Because you can’t really speak for his side of things. |
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Post by armadillo5000 on Feb 7, 2021 20:33:16 GMT
That's interesting, but shouldn't FA be at least sometimes a bit emotional? I mean negative emotions while arguing or something. And not seem so chill literally all the time? But anyway, yeah he told me about his thoughts and feelings, it seems like he's not sure himself if the way he is is ideal so I believe we can sort it out and make it work Chill can sometimes mean tuned out....it can meaning numbing yourself or suppressing feelings because it wasn’t safe to have feelings. It is great you believe the two of you can make it work...what does he say? Because you can’t really speak for his side of things. He didn't say much about it, he expressed that he's confused and then called me to talk about something unrelated, which was nice. But the way he said it really made me feel like there's no reason to stress out about it so much. |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 7, 2021 22:17:58 GMT
Chill can sometimes mean tuned out....it can meaning numbing yourself or suppressing feelings because it wasn’t safe to have feelings. It is great you believe the two of you can make it work...what does he say? Because you can’t really speak for his side of things. He didn't say much about it, he expressed that he's confused and then called me to talk about something unrelated, which was nice. But the way he said it really made me feel like there's no reason to stress out about it so much. Well...I am glad you are feeling better about things. |
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Post by armadillo5000 on Feb 7, 2021 22:59:03 GMT
He didn't say much about it, he expressed that he's confused and then called me to talk about something unrelated, which was nice. But the way he said it really made me feel like there's no reason to stress out about it so much. Well...I am glad you are feeling better about things. Thank you! But idk, should I tell him that I think he might have an unhealthy attachment style? He obviously doesn't know why he feels the way he does, he told me few times that he thinks he should feel different about some things or treat people differently, and he just thinks that maybe he's a bad person, which isn't true of course. Like how do you even start a conversation like that. Our common friend told him ages ago that he needs to see a therapist and he agreed but never did it... |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 8, 2021 0:17:18 GMT
I'm going to copy and paste a response I wrote a couple months ago to a similar question that has a couple links to similar past posts discussing this that may be useful:
"There's a lot of talk on these forums about how to talk to avoidant partners. It's a very common question (always wanting to talk to the avoidant "gently") because these dynamics often present similarly, and a frustrated partner comes here wondering if they can change things. But a lot of the advice goes the same way, because most of our experiences with this have gone the same way: you didn't cause them to have problems and so you can't fix them, and confronting them is likely to make them defensive and further shut down. However, it's probably worthwhile for you to read through some of the threads, which do have a range of experiences.
jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2657/break-das-emotional-wall
jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1955/introducing-da-attachment-style"
My general opinion is, you can try, but tread very lightly without expectations it'll sink in / change anything, and do not bring in your own agenda or you'll end up disappointed.
For your situation specifically, is your boyfriend leading this conversation or are you?
In my experience, someone saying what's wrong with me offhand, and especially when pressed by another person or when drinking etc. versus bringing it up pointedly, on their own, initiating a serious conversation about it when sober... isn't all that serious about it. If he's just saying it when you're bringing up how you feel, and he's not taking any action to really figure it out then he's not ready and you won't be able to change that. Him ignoring the mutual friend suggesting therapy without much or any follow up is very indicative of where he's at.
I have had "success" introducing attachment style to FRIENDS, but never to insecure significant others or exes. My most recent DA anecdote involves a friend IRL I've known for many years. He has said to me in passing a couple times in years past, I'm unhappy and I wonder why. I mentioned attachment style and therapy, he ignored it totally and resumed avoidance of his issues. A few months ago, on his own initiative, he was fairly upset about something that had happened in his life (unrelated to me). He had really thought it through and asked if we could have a serious conversation and maybe I could help. I listened, told him again about attachment style. He didn't even remember my saying it before, but THIS time, since he came to me about it when he was actually ready to listen, it stuck. Not only did he listen, he asked me for more information and resources and then took off getting into it on his own. I'd never actually seen him ready to deal with it before, but this time has been very different with lots of follow up action on his end. Again, we're totally platonic friends, no hidden agendas for either of us, and he seems to be making the progress he wants and is getting happier for it. It's very inspiring when someone is confronting their issues in earnest, which also makes it apparent when they're ready.
I also recommend taking a look at the book The Truth, by Neil Strauss. It was once recommended to me by an old poster on this forum. The summary version is, Neil had a life-long FA attachment style (though he doesn't really use any technical attachment theory terms in the book), and eventually earned secure (once he was in enough pain to truly want to heal). But it took a long time, and the depths he went to to stay in denial about the work he needed to do and avoid changing is stunning... in spite of his friends having told him all the answers he needed years earlier. He eventually comments near the end something like, you should listen to the people you trust because they probably know what they're talking about, but you likely won't listen until you're actually ready to hear it.
Having earned secure myself and knowing how difficult that was, and then reading this well-written account from someone who had an even harder time with it (but also got through it too!) was enlightening in regards to how internally-motivated the process is. These cycles that lead to unhappiness can be broken, but they really won't be until someone's ready to break them.
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