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Post by amber on Mar 26, 2021 21:17:00 GMT
Hi all
I’ve done a lot of attachment work on myself in the last 18 months including working with a psychologist using a protocol called the ideal parent Protocol using visualisation to change attachment style to secure. Also done SE and some other poly vagal based stuff like the Steven Porges safe sound protocol. Noticed big changes in the way I feel as I am currently on the dating scene.
In the past I would become attracted to people really fast and attach very quickly. Didn’t really pay attention to red flags or other issues of incompatibility as long as there was attention and connection and typically have been in r/ships with DA or FA.
Now with dating I feel almost attracted to no one! And if there is a nice connection and slight attraction I quickly become turned off, as someone starts to show interest in me. Or I see flaws or faults etc and feel put off by this and question of being with someone with particular issues will work for me.
I wonder if learning so much about the nervous system and attachment styles has made me become quite negative about relationships and the possibility of one actually working out given how difficult I know it is with an insecure attachment style. I’m not sure if I’m just meeting men who are insecure and therefore that’s the reason I am not interested or if I’ve become a little more avoidant instead of anxious. I do desire a r/ship but feel relatively content on my own for the first time in my life.
Has anyone had a similar experience when working on their attachment issues? I’m hoping maybe I’m just becoming more secure but not sure if first there’s a temporary swing towards avoidance after being anxious for so long!!
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Post by annieb on Mar 27, 2021 3:58:50 GMT
Curious about this, too and if the old timers have any input. I’m at about the same timeline therapy wise and recently started dating (only real life not online), and find myself in similar shoes. As if I’m putting off commitment and even though I think I’m supposed to want it, I’m almost glad to be entertaining unavailable guys because I know it’s not going anywhere and I’ll be single again soon or whatever. I’m experiencing short bouts of attachment, but I cycle through it fast, and I don’t act on any of those feelings. I have no problem sitting on my hands and not texting them, etc. I’m FA or reformed rather, and I have no idea where to go from here, but I feel content as well, maybe not “secure”, but in control.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2021 5:04:37 GMT
hi, ex-AP here. I do think there's a period of liminality where you "turn off" the AP and are not quite sure what you're doing because you're no longer relying on the same attraction cues as you previously did. It could be both being avoidant and starting to be aware/turned off of the other party's insecurity. It could also be that the way you are dating is no longer working for you, and so you don't find much happening for you. It's a turning point where the old doesn't work but you haven't had quite the new yet, so it's a bit confusing.
At this stage, you could swing into avoidant tendencies, yes, because you are still insecure but turning off the AP. It is a valuable experience as it gives you insight into how different people's experiences may from yours. It gave me compassion/empathy for people in my life, and also acceptance for how tiresome life is, and i didn't need to fight so hard for relationships.
People think turning secure is insecure >>>> secure, as if there's a magic switch. In truth, it's really insecure >>> nothingness/neutrality >>> secure. The period of neutrality is, in my opinion, most important, as that is where you learn about yourself and decide what/who you want to be. When you are working on yourself at this stage, you are actually gathering raw material that you use to shape YOUR version of secure. not all secures look the same, so you have to be shaping your own version. That is what is missing in lots of advice that is provided, as people focus on getting out of the insecure stage.
Give it some time as you settle into a place of neutrality, and just explore different people and ways of dating, without looking for particular outcomes. just enjoy the experiences as they are and take what you enjoy and leave what you do not. Practise the skills you wish to develop e.g., communication, identifying and maintaining boundaries, having fun, not thinking etc. This will help you build a foundation for establishing your secure self. It's a fun time!
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 27, 2021 14:37:03 GMT
I am at a stage where I still fall for boy men but do not act on it...put another way...i pause now whenever I feel that excitement feeling coming.
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Post by alexandra on Mar 28, 2021 4:33:10 GMT
I think it took me about 7 months after initially earning secure to start being interested in actually dating anyone again. So, not 7 months from the time I started the process, but 7 months from that shift. As @shiningstar mentioned, there's a period where you kind of have to get to know yourself and it can be confusing. I couldn't predict my responses to things anymore because they were often different and out of the lifelong AP patterned behavior. From there, it was another 5 months or so until I wholly stopped dating men with insecure attachment styles. Which puts my personal experience at about a year after completing the bulk of the work (but still being mindful of it since). I am sparks-attracted to far fewer people now, and when I like someone it's instead, I want to slowly get to know this person better and am interested in continuing to talk to them. Which is much more about emotional-connection building. When I have been put off by people being interested in me, it has been because they weren't healthy partners for me and I didn't want to get involved. I could recognize why they were unhealthy and I was put off, but it was still my gut telling me something and I trust it now. So on the one hand, it may just be okay because you're encountering the wrong people and trusting your gut. So I was interested in far fewer men but the quality of those connections was much better, even if it didn't go past a few dates. And when I did meet my boyfriend, it wasn't immediate sparks and wild attraction, but it felt very easy and like there were no red flags and I wanted to keep getting to know this guy who makes me comfortable and is kind of cute and super consistent. Then we just kept getting happier and happier with each other (there was always a baseline level of physical attraction, but it wasn't the primary driver). That was all very different than how I ever felt attracted to avoidants. I suppose the two questions I have for you amber is, what (if anything) does your therapist have to say about it? And, are you sure you were AP before and not FA? If you've worked through all your anxious-side stuff, you could have been left with some avoidant distrust of others to work through that had never been activated before as you were dating more avoidant men. I don't really think that's going on, because your approach the last several months sounded healthy to me, but just putting it out there as a question that crossed my mind. I do think it's more likely related to what shiningstar said. Being content on your own is a BIG deal, and it sounds like you'd rather be single than in a relationship with the wrong person, which is healthy. You very well could have just not come across him yet. |
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Post by maryisback on Apr 12, 2021 19:04:12 GMT
I do not think you have turned DA temporarily, because you said this: "I do desire a r/ship but feel relatively content on my own for the first time in my life."
DAs don't really desire a relationship. However, anxious and avoidance are 2 sides of the same commitment phobic coin. Being aware of your tendencies is a very important step.
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Post by anne12 on Apr 13, 2021 7:23:47 GMT
jebkinnisonforum.com/post/40464/ - something about being ready - when will a new partner show up in your life jebkinnisonforum.com/post/40423/ - something about being picky - theres a difference between selfprotection and being selective Theres also the typical ap way of reacting - when love becomes avaliable, their NO can come up As a women I would also be aware where I am in my menstrual cycle - does your attraction to other people and other People's attraction to you change depending on where you are in your menstrual cycle ? It is recommended that people work with their feminine/masculine energy - depending if you want to attract a more masculine or a more feminine leaning man. Acording to a attatchment/se/love coach/teacher it is NOT enough just to become secure if you want to attract a partner and make a new relationship last Even if you are NOT ready to date yet, just being regulated and radiating with your feminine energy in your daily life can feel fantastic and other people can sence it
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Post by blacksnow2 on Apr 18, 2021 5:35:25 GMT
What I think is happening is that you've worked through the outermost layer of your trauma and "shaved off" your AP tendencies, enough so that you've now discovered more of your 'core'... and the emotional unavailability there. Both AP and DA are emotionally unavailable, but they manifest differently. You're on the right track. I wouldn't call you DA, I'd just say "not really quite AP any longer".
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Post by amber on Apr 21, 2021 21:56:18 GMT
hi, ex-AP here. I do think there's a period of liminality where you "turn off" the AP and are not quite sure what you're doing because you're no longer relying on the same attraction cues as you previously did. It could be both being avoidant and starting to be aware/turned off of the other party's insecurity. It could also be that the way you are dating is no longer working for you, and so you don't find much happening for you. It's a turning point where the old doesn't work but you haven't had quite the new yet, so it's a bit confusing. At this stage, you could swing into avoidant tendencies, yes, because you are still insecure but turning off the AP. It is a valuable experience as it gives you insight into how different people's experiences may from yours. It gave me compassion/empathy for people in my life, and also acceptance for how tiresome life is, and i didn't need to fight so hard for relationships. People think turning secure is insecure >>>> secure, as if there's a magic switch. In truth, it's really insecure >>> nothingness/neutrality >>> secure. The period of neutrality is, in my opinion, most important, as that is where you learn about yourself and decide what/who you want to be. When you are working on yourself at this stage, you are actually gathering raw material that you use to shape YOUR version of secure. not all secures look the same, so you have to be shaping your own version. That is what is missing in lots of advice that is provided, as people focus on getting out of the insecure stage. Give it some time as you settle into a place of neutrality, and just explore different people and ways of dating, without looking for particular outcomes. just enjoy the experiences as they are and take what you enjoy and leave what you do not. Practise the skills you wish to develop e.g., communication, identifying and maintaining boundaries, having fun, not thinking etc. This will help you build a foundation for establishing your secure self. It's a fun time! \ thankyou, your answer is super helpful and has really helped to clarify things for me. I agree it doesn't just swing from insecure to secure, and to be honest I never really thought of it that way until you mentioned it here. I guess theres kind of a 'middle place' or a place of neutrality where you are oscillating or 'reorganising' parts of yourself, or patterns, belief systems, way of thinking. and because it so unfamiliar it feels strange and kind of like "I don't know who I am". Its a great place for me to be, it feels really empowering not to be longing, clinging, feeling anxious and needy about men. and having much better boundaries and not allowing poor behaviours in. |
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Post by amber on Apr 21, 2021 21:59:45 GMT
What I think is happening is that you've worked through the outermost layer of your trauma and "shaved off" your AP tendencies, enough so that you've now discovered more of your 'core'... and the emotional unavailability there. Both AP and DA are emotionally unavailable, but they manifest differently. You're on the right track. I wouldn't call you DA, I'd just say "not really quite AP any longer". yes, I agree something like this is happening. Im less AP and more...who knows what atm!! lol. I feel like im working towards secure for sure. there are definitely some secure behaviours showing up but feel that muscle needs to grow more. Im about a year into Daniel Browns 'ideal parent figure protocol' which is an attachement repatterning program that involves using visualisation to reprogram the 'internal working model of self' which is formed through our attachment to caregivers in the first 18 months of life. according to him AP need around 60-100 facilitated sessions with a practitioner and in between that daily visualisations from recordings with the practitioner to more to secure attachment. ive done about 25 sessions with my psychologist so far. its a long road but ill keep at it! |
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Post by amber on Apr 21, 2021 22:02:34 GMT
I think it took me about 7 months after initially earning secure to start being interested in actually dating anyone again. So, not 7 months from the time I started the process, but 7 months from that shift. As @shiningstar mentioned, there's a period where you kind of have to get to know yourself and it can be confusing. I couldn't predict my responses to things anymore because they were often different and out of the lifelong AP patterned behavior. From there, it was another 5 months or so until I wholly stopped dating men with insecure attachment styles. Which puts my personal experience at about a year after completing the bulk of the work (but still being mindful of it since). I am sparks-attracted to far fewer people now, and when I like someone it's instead, I want to slowly get to know this person better and am interested in continuing to talk to them. Which is much more about emotional-connection building. When I have been put off by people being interested in me, it has been because they weren't healthy partners for me and I didn't want to get involved. I could recognize why they were unhealthy and I was put off, but it was still my gut telling me something and I trust it now. So on the one hand, it may just be okay because you're encountering the wrong people and trusting your gut. So I was interested in far fewer men but the quality of those connections was much better, even if it didn't go past a few dates. And when I did meet my boyfriend, it wasn't immediate sparks and wild attraction, but it felt very easy and like there were no red flags and I wanted to keep getting to know this guy who makes me comfortable and is kind of cute and super consistent. Then we just kept getting happier and happier with each other (there was always a baseline level of physical attraction, but it wasn't the primary driver). That was all very different than how I ever felt attracted to avoidants. I suppose the two questions I have for you amber is, what (if anything) does your therapist have to say about it? And, are you sure you were AP before and not FA? If you've worked through all your anxious-side stuff, you could have been left with some avoidant distrust of others to work through that had never been activated before as you were dating more avoidant men. I don't really think that's going on, because your approach the last several months sounded healthy to me, but just putting it out there as a question that crossed my mind. I do think it's more likely related to what shiningstar said. Being content on your own is a BIG deal, and it sounds like you'd rather be single than in a relationship with the wrong person, which is healthy. You very well could have just not come across him yet. thankyou! its great to hear about your experiences as something to relate to and to get a sense of time and how it pans out. my therapist thinks the changes are positive and that there are a lot of internal shifts going on, and that my nervous system has slowed down and is not attaching in the same way as before. I don't think im FA...ive thought about this a lot and I really don't show FA tendencies. but havnet done the AAI so could always be wrong. |
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Post by amber on Apr 24, 2021 21:43:39 GMT
Update with this...ive been dating a guy whos AP (Aware of it and working towards secure)and unfortunately I’m going to have to end it. I actually felt A bit sick being around him and felt not at all attracted. I’m wondering if that’s because of my attachment stuff, or his or both, or the fact that he’s AP and I normally go for DA types? I can definelty see how intense and enmeshing an AP/AP relationship could be. Way too much. Ah sigh. Back to the drawing board. Or perhaps just some time single on my own for more.
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Post by alexandra on Apr 24, 2021 22:39:43 GMT
amber, sorry to hear this but it's okay for you to end it if it's not working. Personally, I can't date AP men because they can expect that you pretty constantly regulate them emotionally, and feeling gross is the exact way to describe it. It's bad enough to be the co-dependent who needs that (from the standpoint of us being AP or recovering AP who are trying to stop being co-dependent and practice having healthy boundaries and don't need the reinforcement of unhealthy dynamics)... add in having to be co-dependent in an additional type of way to soothe your anxious partner and it's so much to deal with. I feel bad that I recognize what they're going through because I remember being the same way and why and how hard it is to get past, but that doesn't mean the situation works romantically. Plus, as you know because you've been doing the work too, a lot of it is still his work to do on his own. If you're much further ahead than him in your process it's difficult to stay connected and grow together. Anyway, long-winded way of saying don't judge yourself harshly or get too frustrated about having the urge to end things. It still creates space for you to find a better match who is closer to where you're at and what you need, and for the guy to do so as well.
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Post by amber on Apr 25, 2021 7:19:34 GMT
amber, sorry to hear this but it's okay for you to end it if it's not working. Personally, I can't date AP men because they can expect that you pretty constantly regulate them emotionally, and feeling gross is the exact way to describe it. It's bad enough to be the co-dependent who needs that (from the standpoint of us being AP or recovering AP who are trying to stop being co-dependent and practice having healthy boundaries and don't need the reinforcement of unhealthy dynamics)... add in having to be co-dependent in an additional type of way to soothe your anxious partner and it's so much to deal with. I feel bad that I recognize what they're going through because I remember being the same way and why and how hard it is to get past, but that doesn't mean the situation works romantically. Plus, as you know because you've been doing the work too, a lot of it is still his work to do on his own. If you're much further ahead than him in your process it's difficult to stay connected and grow together. Anyway, long-winded way of saying don't judge yourself harshly or get too frustrated about having the urge to end things. It still creates space for you to find a better match who is closer to where you're at and what you need, and for the guy to do so as well. Thanks so much! I don’t really feel bad.i do feel sorry for him because he wears his heart on his sleeve and seems super sensitive soul but I don’t want to feel sorry for a partner and know this is not a good dynamic. The icky feeling is interesting...I can feel an enmeshing quality from him and I think that’s why I feel icky. I’m not going to continue to see him romantically. Thanks for your insight x |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 25, 2021 17:27:34 GMT
amber , sorry to hear this but it's okay for you to end it if it's not working. Personally, I can't date AP men because they can expect that you pretty constantly regulate them emotionally, and feeling gross is the exact way to describe it. It's bad enough to be the co-dependent who needs that (from the standpoint of us being AP or recovering AP who are trying to stop being co-dependent and practice having healthy boundaries and don't need the reinforcement of unhealthy dynamics)... add in having to be co-dependent in an additional type of way to soothe your anxious partner and it's so much to deal with. I feel bad that I recognize what they're going through because I remember being the same way and why and how hard it is to get past, but that doesn't mean the situation works romantically. Plus, as you know because you've been doing the work too, a lot of it is still his work to do on his own. If you're much further ahead than him in your process it's difficult to stay connected and grow together. Anyway, long-winded way of saying don't judge yourself harshly or get too frustrated about having the urge to end things. It still creates space for you to find a better match who is closer to where you're at and what you need, and for the guy to do so as well. Thanks so much! I don’t really feel bad.i do feel sorry for him because he wears his heart on his sleeve and seems super sensitive soul but I don’t want to feel sorry for a partner and know this is not a good dynamic. The icky feeling is interesting...I can feel an enmeshing quality from him and I think that’s why I feel icky. I’m not going to continue to see him romantically. Thanks for your insight x Yep.....enmeshment is exactly what turns me off too. |
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