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Post by redhandletter2019 on Apr 30, 2021 19:51:28 GMT
Hi all,
First post. Reaching out for advice on contacting my ex (who I now think is DA/FA). She suddenly emotionally shut down and broke things off without discussion after five months, over triggers seemingly unrelated to us.
Some context: After meeting last year, we'd been committed and going from strength to strength with in-person dates in between lockdowns (mutual daily msging, I never pressured), and everything in between. Then, multiple recent events in the news (I won't go into detail) seemed to affect her personally to the point where I thought it may be opening up old memories/wonder if she herself had suffered some kind of abuse. I didn't push on this, figuring she'd open up in time, but listened whenever she mentioned.
Our final date, a week or so after this shift, was light-hearted but also full of deeper discussions about her worries (homesick, family, etc). She briefly mentioned how she sometimes shuts down when stressed, but had been to therapy and told it was an effective coping mechanism. Looking back, this feels like subconsciously setting me up.
I text her to thank for meeting despite the stress she'd been feeling, but then the pull away started. I heard nothing back for a day or so. I gave space. At the end of that week, after intermittent msgs, she text to essentially apologise for being overwhelmed with life and promised she'd 'get better'. I was understanding, said I'd be there when she was ready on her terms (thinking we'd eventually be able to talk things through).
After a week of no contact, I text to check in. She asked to call and ended it. Blamed headspace and uncertainty over the future - said she needed to focus on herself and she had a lot going on/fighting depression - so basically relationship a weight. None of it, I felt, rationally made much sense for ending it between us, but her mind was made up. Obviously I accepted her decision, but she struggled to communicate feelings or reasons, aside from making clear it wasn't 'us'. To be honest, she seemed in a panic.
I asked about why we couldn't have spoken about it before to work things through together. She said she's never able to let people in and needed to cope on her own. Stonewalled. Very much cutting off 'external things' and had made the choice. All a bit odd. As if none of the past months ever happened for her. Felt a different, cold person (I suppose she had to be to cope).
From my side, it's been a very tough time, and incredibly confusing as we really seemed to understand, value and trust each other (her words), but learning about dismissive avoidance has given me some potential understanding.
I've been wondering, since all the reasons she gave were pressures outside us (even if the relationship became the casualty), would it be wrong to drop one message over the summer to see how she is/potentially reconnect? From what I've read, people with this attachment style take a little more time to process breakups and emotions, although often don't reach out for shame etc/conflict avoidance/emotional vulnerability once they 'reactivate'.
Sending a msg would offer one final olive branch. Or is it deluded to think she'd reassess out of the episode and set to do more harm than good? The last thing I'd want to do is set her back.
Thanks for any thoughts and I really appreciate this forum.
RHL
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Post by alexandra on Apr 30, 2021 21:05:44 GMT
DA don't usually reassess, FA can. But you may need to reconsider your perspective on this somewhat. She's actually communicated pretty clearly for a situation like this. Honestly, props to her because she probably has done a lot of work to even get to that point of being able to do that. So she said she's been through abuse, she suffers depression, she goes to therapy, she likes to work through problems on her own. These are issues she faces every day, and this is how she copes with stress. She has straight out told you how she is.
When your relationship started, there was probably enough new energy and excitement for her to temporarily override her avoidant tendencies and ignore feelings of overwhelm from intimacy and from the external stuff going on. For a lot of people with insecure attachment styles, the honeymoon period allows this. But then when things seem like they're becoming more permanent and the initial sparks of attraction that can come with a new and exciting connection settle down (as is normal), that nervous system automatic response and fears come up. So that may be why things seemed okay for a few months and then she got caught up in life issues.
It sounds like you want a partner who deals with problems and does conflict resolution by turning towards their partner, not away from them. She left at the first sign of stress and stonewalled you. This is how she's going to continue handling stress and problems in your life and relationship, whether related to you or not. That makes it very difficult to have the kind of relationship it sounds like you want, which makes you incompatible in very important foundational ways. And that's okay, it's okay that you've learned this over time and it isn't a good match.
If you keep trying to kickstart things, it both doesn't really respect where she's at and how she approaches her life and stress, and it will just prolong heartbreak for you because even if you get back together, this will repeat and come up again and again unless she has actually changed and become more secure. It sounds like there's no reason for you not to end things on good terms, and perhaps you can eventually be friends if you're really eventually over her and have no agenda to get back together. But that time isn't right now.
Do you have an anxious attachment style?
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Post by redhandletter2019 on Apr 30, 2021 23:31:31 GMT
DA don't usually reassess, FA can. But you may need to reconsider your perspective on this somewhat. She's actually communicated pretty clearly for a situation like this. Honestly, props to her because she probably has done a lot of work to even get to that point of being able to do that. So she said she's been through abuse, she suffers depression, she goes to therapy, she likes to work through problems on her own. These are issues she faces every day, and this is how she copes with stress. She has straight out told you how she is. When your relationship started, there was probably enough new energy and excitement for her to temporarily override her avoidant tendencies and ignore feelings of overwhelm from intimacy and from the external stuff going on. For a lot of people with insecure attachment styles, the honeymoon period allows this. But then when things seem like they're becoming more permanent and the initial sparks of attraction that can come with a new and exciting connection settle down (as is normal), that nervous system automatic response and fears come up. So that may be why things seemed okay for a few months and then she got caught up in life issues. It sounds like you want a partner who deals with problems and does conflict resolution by turning towards their partner, not away from them. She left at the first sign of stress and stonewalled you. This is how she's going to continue handling stress and problems in your life and relationship, whether related to you or not. That makes it very difficult to have the kind of relationship it sounds like you want, which makes you incompatible in very important foundational ways. And that's okay, it's okay that you've learned this over time and it isn't a good match. If you keep trying to kickstart things, it both doesn't really respect where she's at and how she approaches her life and stress, and it will just prolong heartbreak for you because even if you get back together, this will repeat and come up again and again unless she has actually changed and become more secure. It sounds like there's no reason for you not to end things on good terms, and perhaps you can eventually be friends if you're really eventually over her and have no agenda to get back together. But that time isn't right now. Do you have an anxious attachment style? Thanks for getting back to me with such a detailed and helpful reply. I appreciate it. It made me think. And one point I should make clear before going any further (have clarified original post) is that she never explicitly disclosed abuse, but events triggering her I felt possibly suggested it. I understand what you say, in some ways she was clear, but at the time I wasn't aware of the DA framework so I was operating blind. None of it was ever as openly communicated by her as laid out above - I just picked things up. It's frustrating how, looking back and knowing a little more from what I've read, I can see those inferences very likely counted as clear signals/big efforts on her part. But, as a newcomer, without the traditional, secure communication from her to clearly explain what this meant, I couldn't appreciate the context and work with it. As for my attachment style, I honestly don't know. I like to think secure, but then I presume everyone likes to think that of themselves to some degree haha. But yes, I do work on the basis of communication- or at least openness to discuss needs and try to work through things, even if it's discussing the need for distance etc. I've struggled here because it's felt - as you mentioned- like all this has impacted us without trying to fight for it. Or in other terms, her looking outward and me inward. I'd hope these differences wouldn't be insurmountable if we could have an honest conversation about boundaries/struggles, but I understand that this likely just isn't possible given how she seems to operate. I take what you say, but I still find it a great shame that something that worked so well is doomed without hope due to issues objectively unrelated. My core jumps to the belief that understanding is possible. Presented as you laid out, I worry that reengaging over the next few months wouldn't help. We've not been in contact, and I've taken steps to move on, but I hope we can speak again at some point. As you say, it wasn't bitter - even if blinsiding for me, and I'd like to know if she's feeling better/we can draw a better line under things Thanks again, RHL |
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Post by maryisback on Apr 30, 2021 23:54:27 GMT
sounds very familiar! I am DA and when I get overwhelmed with "life", relationships are the first casualty, because I don't prioritize them. It's something I "might" work on or stay in if I don't have a lot going on OR if the connection is very strong. Strong connections are pretty rare but do happen. Like alexandra said, you have a better chance at reconnection if she is FA. I reassessed once in my life and it didn't work out in the end. I guess quasi reassessed. We didn't really get back together. It was more of a hanging out situation.
I think getting back with a DA is often "the one that got away" situation and can be hard to stop thinking that. Often times, it's not deep enough to have a blow up break up, or the reasons are unclear, so it's natural to think it could work in the future.
Good luck! Break ups are hard.
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Post by annieb on May 1, 2021 12:33:51 GMT
I think most of us who ended up on these forums came here to reconnect with an avoidant and we ended up staying to reconnect with ourselves. So: welcome! As far as this relationship there can be a progression in a relationship with an avoidant that can really turn even more painful for the other person. So that’s something to think about, because now you’re broken up and you may idealize the “future” of this relationship while it may have actually turned out that way.
I’ve had two long term relationships with avoidant males that turned abusive and violent, when living together, because while dating they were able to ebb and flow and avoid me, when angry, once we lived together, it was in person silent treatments and outright violence. Nothing I would wish on my worst enemy. Maybe less likely to turn physically violent with a female avoidant, but emotional abuse can be even more damaging.
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Post by tnr9 on May 1, 2021 14:07:39 GMT
asked about why we couldn't have spoken about it before to work things through together. She said she's never able to let people in and needed to cope on her own. Stonewalled. Very much cutting off 'external things' and had made the choice. All a bit odd. As if none of the past months ever happened for her. Felt a different, cold person (I suppose she had to be to cope).
This tends to be a big reason why people come to these boards...the one sided breakup where the person who was broken up with feels shocked, sad, confused, angry...because that person did not get any say or choice in the matter. And yes...that can lead to idolizing “what was” and “projecting a perfect story onto the relationship..if only”. It is hardly ever truly like that.
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Post by redhandletter2019 on May 1, 2021 22:09:18 GMT
Thank you for all the responses. I'm trying not to be rose-tinted about things, rather the sudden shift was such a huge change from how consistent we'd been, I'd wondered if there may be a chance for increased understanding later down the line.
Clearly we matched each other strongly on a level, but it's whether that could in time overcome the fundamental differences Alexandra mentioned, and Mary, as you said, whether the connection was/can ever be strong enough.
A lot hinges on her wanting to make the changes. As Alexandra pointed out, without that, the situation would just repeat, no matter how much I try to understand.
Mary, thanks for sharing your personal experience. I'm really not sure of the DA/FA lines, but she was v warm and open about liking me and wanting it to work (again in lockdown, so the distance may have helped). If you don't mind me asking, did the time apart play a factor in your reassessment?
Annie and tnr9, I see your points. I'll stay vigilant to avoid that. Part of the problem is that, while I am getting over the breakup, it still feels so cut off before its time. These msgs have helped me see other sides.
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Post by alexandra on May 1, 2021 23:04:24 GMT
redhandletter2019, you can take a free assessment about your attachment style online. I generally recommend either this one (anything ~60%+ is overall secure): dianepooleheller.com/attachment-test/Or this one (option A requires an email sign-up in case you want to track your progress, option B doesn't require anything and you can leave demographic info blank if you want): www.web-research-design.net/cgi-bin/crq/crq.plIt sounds to me like you probably will test fairly secure (though I'm only going off your posts which isn't actually enough information to base that on), and that the issue here is more you've never romantically run into avoidant attachment before. So you're inexperienced with it and wrapping your head around it versus you're trying to cling to unhealthy ideas. It truly is confusing if you've never encountered it before. In this case, someone with an anxious attachment style would for various reasons try to double down on reconnection even if it involved bending themselves into a pretzel and not getting their needs met. There's a pretty typical power struggle dynamic that develops between partners with anxious and avoidant attachment styles, called the anxious-avoidant trap. I agree with the posters above who said this kind of situation can feel like an unsatisfying "what if" and the-one-who-got-away-loose-ends ending. And I've been in this situation lots myself when I had an anxious style and was very attracted to avoidance. Over time (years and years in my case lol), you realize it's flawed thinking. Relationships with a secure dynamic need a foundation of honesty, consistency, vulnerability, and communication / problem-solving to weather hard times in addition to good ones. A person with a dismissive avoidant attachment style is not comfortable with relationship interdependence and is only comfortable with independence, so there is no balance. (Someone with an anxious style is only comfortable with interdependence but not independence, and someone with a fearful avoidant style isn't comfortable with any of it, neither relying on others or on themselves.) That doesn't mean they're a bad person or the day to day isn't fun or the connection isn't there. But insecure attachment styles come with nervous systems that got wired to protect that person from bad childhood situations, which unfortunately no longer serves them as an adult if they are seeking mature and healthy romantic relationships. People do not grow out of it naturally as they grew into it, it's a conscious decision that requires confronting a lot of trauma and is extremely painful (the attachment style developed as a defense mechanism when the person was too young to have the capacity to deal with the pain). It isn't fair, neither that someone went through a lot and came out of it without healthy coping mechanisms nor that unrelated experiences can sink an otherwise promising relationship. But as you're already taking into consideration, it's a personal choice to change that has to come from within and nowhere else, and if someone's either not ready or not willing to deal with their issues, then it just is what it is. It is absolutely sad and worth mourning and taking the time to accept, process, and get over. I think the bright side of this is she is aware and has started therapy and maybe she'll eventually get to a point where she's more at peace with herself, as having any insecure attachment is usually painful in a number of ways (though not always consciously to the person). And that goes back to, you can care about her and wish her well in your head for the time being and maybe be friends one day. I don't think reaching out in general will "set her back," because she'll handle her process however she's going to no matter what you do. But it will set you back for as long as you still have expectations. You can try to understand attachment theory for yourself because, in my opinion, it's extremely powerful and important information that we should talk about more as a society. But prioritizing yourself and what's best for you is also important to do at this juncture.
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Post by blacksnow2 on May 1, 2021 23:44:33 GMT
I text her to thank for meeting despite the stress she'd been feeling, but then the pull away started. I heard nothing back for a day or so. I gave space. At the end of that week, after intermittent msgs, she text to essentially apologise for being overwhelmed with life and promised she'd 'get better'. I was understanding, said I'd be there when she was ready on her terms (thinking we'd eventually be able to talk things through). Okay, take everything I say with a grain of salt because I like to talk crap a lot. I think the bolded translates to "I'll wait here until you decide to change for me". It's pressuring and feels engulfing. I'm not DA and it feels pressuring to me. Just remember, that fear of enmeshment is a big problem with avoidants. Anything that resembles "I want to peek into your emotions" is just yucky (not blaming you here, but rather telling you how it feels on the other side). Allow things to happen rather than make open statements that directly address readiness. I think that's more effective.
Can I just say? I actually do believe in other people changing as a result of our own behavior. Yes, individuals change when they want to, but it's not totally independent of any romantic (or otherwise) dynamic they are a part of. They can be inspired to change, or indirectly encouraged by example.
Some of your later comments suggest that you don't think reaching out to her is a good idea. I would say trust your gut. Because a big part of this is being able to "read the room", assessing where the other person is and deciding when to back off and for how long. But I would also say do NOT put a stamp on things. People change, everything changes. And she seems self-aware.
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Post by maryisback on May 2, 2021 1:14:06 GMT
Thank you for all the responses. I'm trying not to be rose-tinted about things, rather the sudden shift was such a huge change from how consistent we'd been, I'd wondered if there may be a chance for increased understanding later down the line. Clearly we matched each other strongly on a level, but it's whether that could in time overcome the fundamental differences Alexandra mentioned, and Mary, as you said, whether the connection was/can ever be strong enough. A lot hinges on her wanting to make the changes. As Alexandra pointed out, without that, the situation would just repeat, no matter how much I try to understand. Mary, thanks for sharing your personal experience. I'm really not sure of the DA/FA lines, but she was v warm and open about liking me and wanting it to work (again in lockdown, so the distance may have helped). If you don't mind me asking, did the time apart play a factor in your reassessment? Annie and tnr9, I see your points. I'll stay vigilant to avoid that. Part of the problem is that, while I am getting over the breakup, it still feels so cut off before its time. These msgs have helped me see other sides. That's a good question. I think it was a lot of things that went into it. We were compatible in a lot of ways, had a really strong connection and he had become a big part of my life. Time apart does help, especially if there are other stressors as well. It's kind of like a time to recharge. It's easier for me to recharge on my own. I think most DAs look inward for strength while APs look to others for the support. Sometimes it can be very easy for me to move on, if it were a short relationship or situationship. We are very good at compartmentalizing. If she is FA, you will have a different experience, because they have both sides and can "waiver" between the two. I do not think you can try to get her back with the thought that she will change or maybe she can change. You will have to take her as she is if she gets to that point. I think with any relationship, you have to take the person as they are, since hoping they will change never makes anyone happy. |
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Post by blacksnow2 on May 2, 2021 2:03:53 GMT
I do not think you can try to get her back with the thought that she will change or maybe she can change. You will have to take her as she is if she gets to that point. I think with any relationship, you have to take the person as they are, since hoping they will change never makes anyone happy. Exactly this. It's counterintuitive, but when you come from a place of acceptance, people will usually try to change their behavior around you. Accepting someone but also wanting to see them improving aren't mutually exclusive. It's just very tricky to do. Think of it like accepting who you are, flaws and all, but still aiming to be a better version of yourself. It sounds contradictory, but it's not. |
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Post by alexandra on May 2, 2021 2:10:56 GMT
I actually do believe in other people changing as a result of our own behavior. Yes, individuals change when they want to, but it's not totally independent of any romantic (or otherwise) dynamic they are a part of. They can be inspired to change, or indirectly encouraged by example. Genuinely curious because I don't know the answer, what would you find to be a good example from the other person in this situation if you were in her position? It sounds like he was consistent and had good communication and boundaries for the months they were in the relationship, then tried to talk through the issues when she ended it but respected her and her space. Wouldn't the positive example have already happened during their time together? After the deactivation already happened and she made her wishes clear, what else could he do romantically that wouldn't border on disrespect or co-dependence? |
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Post by blacksnow2 on May 2, 2021 3:13:27 GMT
Genuinely curious because I don't know the answer, what would you find to be a good example from the other person in this situation if you were in her position? It sounds like he was consistent and had good communication and boundaries for the months they were in the relationship, then tried to talk through the issues when she ended it but respected her and her space. Wouldn't the positive example have already happened during their time together? After the deactivation already happened and she made her wishes clear, what else could he do romantically that wouldn't border on disrespect or co-dependence? I think that even if we assume OP to be secure and everything in his post to be as objective as possible (this is a big if), just the fact that he was unaware of attachment theory and the patterns that avoidants tend to display is likely what shot him in the foot. Knowledge saves a LOT of heartache and changes our very behavior. But if he goes in blind, he's bound to 1) not see the signs and not react promptly and appropriately, and 2) act in ways that pushes the other person away.
I guess what I'm saying is there were probably a lot of signs there from the beginning and OP saw what he wanted to see in many ways.
To better answer your question: OP says he concluded things about her by connecting the dots, and that she didn't really open up to him. If she was traumatized, like those with insecure attachment usually are, a good example would be for the other person (him) to talk about his own issues with her. Rather than wanting the other person to open up and basically saying "I'll wait for you to show me your ugly insides", set the example by talking about your own issues.... everyone's got them. This communicates to the avoidant that it is okay and safe to open up to a person rather than deal with problems by themselves. And there is a right and wrong way to do this. It cannot come from a place of "I'll show you mine so you can show me yours". But rather genuinely letting the other person know that you are ugly too, and it's okay.
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simon
New Member
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Post by simon on May 2, 2021 19:39:38 GMT
Exactly this. It's counterintuitive, but when you come from a place of acceptance, people will usually try to change their behavior around you. Accepting someone but also wanting to see them improving aren't mutually exclusive. It's just very tricky to do. Think of it like accepting who you are, flaws and all, but still aiming to be a better version of yourself. It sounds contradictory, but it's not. This is probably a good time to understand "psychological reactance".... in one word, "rebellion". But deeper than that at the core, it's actually when someone feels that another person/power is "removing choice or freedom"... which comes from a perceived threat to a person's loss of free behavior. How can a person (childhood) "feel" or become sensitized to threat to their free behavior? Oh, shall we count the ways, and how this intertwines with attachment wounds and parenting styles? Such as if a child felt they couldn't be their authentic self or express their true self, in order to feel safe? Or a parentified child? Or a child needing to wear a "perfect" mask in order to feel safe in receiving love? Etc... You get the drift. And important to understand, that it was a coping mechanism... serving to restore that personal power of choice and freedom, when it was taken away from them or threatened at some point. Now of course, from the perspective of the partner who is on the receiving end of such a thing, this is when things become sticky, especially when that partner wishes to express and maintain healthy boundaries, which can be perceived as threat to freedom and cause a trigger around psychological reactance, and the ensuing rebellion from the classic "you can't control me rebel without a cause" syndrome. |
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Post by tnr9 on May 2, 2021 21:21:15 GMT
I do not think you can try to get her back with the thought that she will change or maybe she can change. You will have to take her as she is if she gets to that point. I think with any relationship, you have to take the person as they are, since hoping they will change never makes anyone happy. Exactly this. It's counterintuitive, but when you come from a place of acceptance, people will usually try to change their behavior around you. Accepting someone but also wanting to see them improving aren't mutually exclusive. It's just very tricky to do. Think of it like accepting who you are, flaws and all, but still aiming to be a better version of yourself. It sounds contradictory, but it's not. As someone with an anxious leaning FA attachment....I can honestly say that any “changing” I have done for a partner was the result of poor boundaries and wanting the other person to stay...it had absolutely nothing to do with actually improving myself because it was fear driven. My best changes...the only ones that stood the test of time have been the ones I chose to make for myself and it has been outside of being in a relationship. |
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