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Post by krolle on Jun 2, 2021 2:52:57 GMT
I'm an FA male, feel free to ask me anything you would like to know from the perspective of an, at least slightly aware, FA male .
I agree with some of what has been said and disagree with some. Mostly the trying to psychologically profile someone by attachment style early on in dating.
The biggest problem I see with this is that people are so complex. How a person shows up on any particular day/week is so much more than their attachment style. They may be tired, just had some really bad news, a recent berievement, too much to drink, be nervous etc. Also it may just be part of their personal temperament.
I wholeheartedly agree with the above quote from Alexandra though. Patterns and inconsistencies can be seen..... but over time is the key part of that.
Two key traits that define FA behaviour that I have noticed with myself are a deep mistrust of both myself and other people (May be hidden). And a very exhausting and ultimately lonely constant internal conflict. Whilst you are at a comfortable distance from the FA in terms of intimacy I think there are few obvious behaviours you will see early on that could conclusively identify an FA. But get too far away, many of us will panic and get uncomfortable, get too close and we will withdraw and deactivate hard. I can think of times now I'm aware, where I have flip flopped back and forth between those several times within a single hour based on my partners behaviour. But I'll hide much of those feelings so they're hard to see from the outside. I may even hide them from myself.
Alexandra also hit the nail on the head regarding one sides unconscious fears being the others conscious ones. And vice versa.
I concur your best bet is to not invest emotionally too soon into anyone in the dating phase rather than attempt to psychologically profile. Be aware of what you'll tolerate and what you wont.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 3:03:09 GMT
I'm an FA male, feel free to ask me anything you would like to know from the perspective of an, at least slightly aware, FA male . I agree with some of what has been said and disagree with some. Mostly the trying to psychologically profile someone by attachment style early on in dating. The biggest problem I see with this is that people are so complex. How a person shows up on any particular day/week is so much more than their attachment style. They may be tired, just had some really bad news, a recent berievement, too much to drink, be nervous etc. Also it may just be part of their personal temperament. I wholeheartedly agree with the above quote from Alexandra though. Patterns and inconsistencies can be seen..... but over time is the key part of that. Two key traits that define FA behaviour that I have noticed with myself are a deep mistrust of both myself and other people (May be hidden). And a very exhausting and ultimately lonely constant internal conflict. Whilst you are at a comfortable distance from the FA in terms of intimacy I think there are few obvious behaviours you will see early on that could conclusively identify an FA. But get too far away, many of us will panic and get uncomfortable, get too close and we will withdraw and deactivate hard. I can think of times now I'm aware, where I have flip flopped back and forth between those several times within a single hour based on my partners behaviour. But I'll hide much of those feelings so they're hard to see from the outside. I may even hide them from myself. Alexandra also hit the nail on the head regarding one sides unconscious fears being the others conscious ones. And vice versa. I concur your best bet is to not invest emotionally too soon into anyone in the dating phase rather than attempt to psychologically profile. Be aware of what you'll tolerate and what you wont. Thanks for contributing krolle! If I have any specific questions down the line, I will be sure to ask. Definitely people are very multifaceted and complex, and trying to profile someone based on one or two interactions is unfair. Rather, it would be across a few months of consistent contact at least.
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Post by krolle on Jun 2, 2021 3:24:38 GMT
[/quote] Thanks for contributing krolle! If I have any specific questions down the line, I will be sure to ask. Definitely people are very multifaceted and complex, and trying to profile someone based on one or two interactions is unfair. Rather, it would be across a few months of consistent contact at least.
[/quote] No problem And don't worry too much about having asked what you needed on this part of the forum. I will agree with tnr9 and admit there is something in this thread that makes me a little uncomfortable too. But I haven't decided if its Because I'm not sure if things are being said which I need to hear. I like the chance to evaluate my own behaviours through the eyes of different perspectives. I have yet to read through all the different behaviours some of you have proposed and see if I agree. There may be some insight available. The only thing I wish to avoid is the decent into compassionless tribalism. (avoid this type, these people are different to us, no good etc). As I said in my previous post people are much more than their attachment style. And I think as long as a person has insight and is willing to be accountable for their behaviour, a successful relationship has a chance with any attachment combo. Some are just better odds. |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 2, 2021 5:00:48 GMT
I think the perceived ickiness in this thread is because it can be construed out of a place of fear and judgement rather than being positioned as, "how do I strengthen my own boundaries enough to walk away from draining relationships (which, in my past, have looked like this)." It is on the defensive, how do I recognize red flags, which implies more onus on the other person and their detriments. But it seems to me that the OP is actually attempting to understand how the FA attachment style is different from her own and how the dynamic between FA and AP play themselves out to avoid more toxic anxious-avoidant dancing. But, as OP has already touched on in posts, the perspective shift to increased security is helped by finding the right language to describe this stuff and more balanced positioning (thinking of it as I'm describing rather than protective red flag power dynamics). Which is still a work in progress for the OP, which is okay, and what it sounds to me like is being called out?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 7:32:08 GMT
Thanks for contributing krolle! If I have any specific questions down the line, I will be sure to ask. Definitely people are very multifaceted and complex, and trying to profile someone based on one or two interactions is unfair. Rather, it would be across a few months of consistent contact at least.
[/quote] No problem And don't worry too much about having asked what you needed on this part of the forum. I will agree with tnr9 and admit there is something in this thread that makes me a little uncomfortable too. But I haven't decided if its Because I'm not sure if things are being said which I need to hear. I like the chance to evaluate my own behaviours through the eyes of different perspectives. I have yet to read through all the different behaviours some of you have proposed and see if I agree. There may be some insight available. The only thing I wish to avoid is the decent into compassionless tribalism. (avoid this type, these people are different to us, no good etc). As I said in my previous post people are much more than their attachment style. And I think as long as a person has insight and is willing to be accountable for their behaviour, a successful relationship has a chance with any attachment combo. Some are just better odds.[/quote] I'm with you on this, Avoiding descent into compassion-less tribalism. On the internet, it can be too easy to abandon courtesy and not be mindful of the community one is addressing. There are individuals seeking support of various attachment styles and I think it's just respectful to be mindful of that, always. That's just my own opinion, and not that the OP has crossed major lines but I do think focus would be more usefully applied to one's own boundaries and pace. Self awareness is the most powerful awareness to have. Typically, if you haven't learned from your own mistakes then someone will be along to give you a chance to make them again- someone of any attachment will do. It's an inside job. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 7:40:33 GMT
Good questions for OP might be,
What are my boundaries, and where do I loosen them to my detriment?
What is MY timeline?
When do I ignore my own feelings and impressions?
If I see something questionable, do I question it or do I shove down my concerns?
Who is in the driver's seat in my life, do I hand the wheel over to someone else?
Those may not be your meaningful questions but I'm just trying to provide ideas for a line of thought- because any situation can become shady or detrimental if you don't know your own boundaries and standards and needs. It's not possible to identify every threat, it is much more doable to know where you stand and who you are, and be able to trust that. Again, just my input and others may disagree.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 2, 2021 8:22:32 GMT
I honestly dislike this thread.....it has stirred up a ton of defensive mechanisms in me. Probably because it feels so isolating....let’s make a laundry list of all FA characteristics so that we can avoid them. Only...what you are describing is mainly foreign to me....I don’t switch because I am usually on the AP side of the house and usually stay there....and I really, really dislike feeling so cookie cutter, one size fits most. All insecure partners are bad choices if you want a secure match....it doesn’t have to focus solely on FA. Also...I notice that mrob hasn’t chimed in and he is an FA male. tnr9 , sorry if I had come across as singling out or attacking FAs, I had hoped my original post had cleared up why I had posted about this particular attachment. Perhaps I should have posted on another section, then? I also view this board as a wonderful resource for all - so posting here would help also others maybe recognize patterns in themselves more effectively or help people moving toward secure make more informed dating choices.
No...this is the right section. For me, calling out the fact that this thread is triggering...but not going down a rabbits hole with it is actually a great improvement for me. Speaking to my fears and issues is part of being my own advocate. What was just so fascinating is that I was really, really feeling this need to defend myself...but more so...my mom....who is FA and my brother who is FA as well. I haven’t felt that deep defensive need in quite a while so it was surprising to feel it coming through in this thread. I am an HSP on top of being an AP leaning FA so I tend to feel things very deeply. I understand the desire to learn what traits to be aware of...but I agree with krolle that there are sometimes other factors at play....for instance the last guy I dated had ADHD so some of what I thought were traits of FA were actually his ADHD behaviors coming through. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 8:36:53 GMT
@introvert, I believe those are good questions to remind myself of for sure, and others wanting to have healthier connections. I also agree compassion is extremely important and I've actually brought it up to another user as part of promoting their healing journey. Further, like I have mentioned on this thread earlier, progress is the goal and not perfection. I think it would be my wording that is giving the impression that I might be too attuned to the other side rather than doing the "inside job". But essentially, this is a thread discussing activation strategies, which I think could be conducive for more self awareness and understanding as a whole.
tnr9, I totally agree. If you remember I've had a similar experience with an ADHD partner. Other individuals with ADHD whom I am very close to in my life also display patterns such as this and I understand they are symptoms. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 9:34:04 GMT
But it seems to me that the OP is actually attempting to understand how the FA attachment style is different from her own and how the dynamic between FA and AP play themselves out to avoid more toxic anxious-avoidant dancing. But, as OP has already touched on in posts, the perspective shift to increased security is helped by finding the right language to describe this stuff and more balanced positioning (thinking of it as I'm describing rather than protective red flag power dynamics). Which is still a work in progress for the OP, which is okay, and what it sounds to me like is being called out? That is exactly what I was trying to highlight, alexandra . And as I've mentioned in my original post I have decided to ask you all in this board rather than going on a deep dive into understanding dynamics further on the internet/books myself because I had hoped to have a conversation that would both benefit myself, lurkers, and posters. Perhaps that is where the "ickiness" comes from, conversations such as this I fully understand may feel isolating at first as tnr9 has mentioned, but maybe that is exactly why we should not avoid them. |
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Post by annes on Jun 2, 2021 13:16:41 GMT
I am going to edit my post, because I have talked about "FAs" as "they", but I was actually thinking of one experience with a particular person, so will replace with "him" because I cannot really generalize. Though I don't think any of us here is claiming to provide any perfectly accurate "FAs profiling", we are all talking from our own particular experience. I can understand the feeling of discomfort/defensiveness in seeing ourselves "labelled". I can relate because when I read similar things about APs it was not particularly pleasant (not fun to be described as "clingy", "desperate", etc. but I have to acknowledge that is kinda also true, right?). However, I also thought I didn't have to take it personally, and it actually helped me gaining some perspective on myself: this is how my behavioral patterns are perceived by others, and seeing things this way made me more conscious about the dynamics of my attachment style in context. I agree that it is important to focus on ourselves and our boundaries, however please understand that recognizing dysfunctionality early on is something we may legitimately want to learn in order to avoid falling in unhealthy dynamics that have hurt us in the past and which may complicate the process to earn security. I believe we should be open to the discussion and be less defensive; on the other hand, I'll be more mindful in avoiding generalizations.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 14:29:46 GMT
Hi guys, just clarifying I don't feel defensive and I'm not FA- just supporting krolle who also didn't seem defensive to me- he was just stating a wish of where he would not like it to go as far as I understood. I agree. Some posters who have not posted on this particular thread have made generalizations about avoidants that have been harsh and untrue - and quite shaming. Just wanted to voice my opinion about that sort of behavior lest things take a turn for the worst. The title of the thread is somewhat provocative as it does sound like an Us vs Them topic. Just wanting to clarify. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 2, 2021 15:11:06 GMT
I am going to edit my post, because I have talked about "FAs" as "they", but I was actually thinking of one experience with a particular person, so will replace with "him" because I cannot really generalize. Though I don't think any of us here is claiming to provide any perfectly accurate "FAs profiling", we are all talking from our own particular experience. I can understand the feeling of discomfort/defensiveness in seeing ourselves "labelled". I can relate because when I read similar things about APs it was not particularly pleasant (not fun to be described as "clingy", "desperate", etc. but I have to acknowledge that is kinda also true, right?). However, I also thought I didn't have to take it personally, and it actually helped me gaining some perspective on myself: this is how my behavioral patterns are perceived by others, and seeing things this way made me more conscious about the dynamics of my attachment style in context. I agree that it is important to focus on ourselves and our boundaries, however please understand that recognizing dysfunctionality early on is something we may legitimately want to learn in order to avoid falling in unhealthy dynamics that have hurt us in the past and which may complicate the process to earn security. I believe we should be open to the discussion and be less defensive; on the other hand, I'll be more mindful in avoiding generalizations. I do think it is valuable to have these conversations...but what I want to avoid is the focus solely on the other person’s attributes without any curiosity about what attracted a poster to them in the first place. Without internal work...this becomes a blame shift and I have seen posts linger in that space and not progress. I also understand about not taking these posts personally...however, I do think, especially for those who have felt the need to not express discomfort....expressing that here is actually a step of growth. To make what was once “not ok” (as in expressing oneself because it was too scary or was used against that person or was treated as a threat) and providing an avenue for it to be “ok” is growth. |
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Post by mrob on Jun 5, 2021 22:02:45 GMT
I think it’s the acknowledgment that AP isn’t “right loving”. Both parties are dysfunctional and it’s how they fit together, and what happens at a certain point that creates this mess. Nobody is as pure as the driven snow here. And without awareness, there’s no ability to change.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 3:11:46 GMT
I think it’s the acknowledgment that AP isn’t “right loving”. Both parties are dysfunctional and it’s how they fit together, and what happens at a certain point that creates this mess. Nobody is as pure as the driven snow here. And without awareness, there’s no ability to change. This is so true. I wouldn't characterize the relationship I am in as a trap, as each of us is making personal growth a priority now that the honeymoon phase is over and the real stuff begins. Of the two of us, my SO (I'm avoidant, I haven't a full understanding of his type although protest behaviors ring true) has been slower to recognize his destructive patterns and also, to his credit, recognize that they exist in him independent of me- meaning he cannot blame them on me as he recognizes long standing patterns. He's finally opening up some boxes to go through his own stuff, his own childhood, his own maladaptive behaviors. I'd also add to this- that hyper focus on the relationship is NOT the same as self awareness..and it isn't love it's preoccupation. Codependency isn't love it's control. I'm not wanting to bash anybody here at all, I'm just adding my perspective to this. Self awareness ultimately should lead to humility in my opinion, which is different from shame. Different from self blame. That kind of gentler acceptance of oneself, I think, leads to the ability to see the other side without vilifying or blaming. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 7, 2021 4:05:38 GMT
I think it’s the acknowledgment that AP isn’t “right loving”. Both parties are dysfunctional and it’s how they fit together, and what happens at a certain point that creates this mess. Nobody is as pure as the driven snow here. And without awareness, there’s no ability to change. This is so true. I wouldn't characterize the relationship I am in as a trap, as each of us is making personal growth a priority now that the honeymoon phase is over and the real stuff begins. Of the two of us, my SO (I'm avoidant, I haven't a full understanding of his type although protest behaviors ring true) has been slower to recognize his destructive patterns and also, to his credit, recognize that they exist in him independent of me- meaning he cannot blame them on me as he recognizes long standing patterns. He's finally opening up some boxes to go through his own stuff, his own childhood, his own maladaptive behaviors. I'd also add to this- that hyper focus on the relationship is NOT the same as self awareness..and it isn't love it's preoccupation. Codependency isn't love it's control. I'm not wanting to bash anybody here at all, I'm just adding my perspective to this. Self awareness ultimately should lead to humility in my opinion, which is different from shame. Different from self blame. That kind of gentler acceptance of oneself, I think, leads to the ability to see the other side without vilifying or blaming. I do agree that the preoccupation and hyper focus is not love....I will call it a nervous system in overdrive without a way to self sooth...but man it feels like love...and Hollywood does not do AP or AP leaning FAs any service with these insecure relationships that work out in the end. |
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