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Post by kristyrose on Oct 31, 2017 3:47:51 GMT
Hello,
I have a question for FA and/or DA's.
My ex bf is a fearful avoidant. He broke up with me in April saying we fought too much for his liking, it was somewhat abrupt, though he had been pulling away even more so in the months leading up to it.
I decided to go no-contact for almost 2 months, during that time he would contact me via text, email and even mailed me a card to try to get a response. He finally sent one more text telling me how hurt he was and how hard our break-up had been on him, and that he will finally stop trying to reach me and will only respond if I contact him.
When I finally did reach out to have an in-person chat, he was very willing and happy to do so. When I saw him he told me how difficult our time apart was ,that he felt he was having withdrawals from me, he stared at his phone everyday waiting and hoping for a response and had trouble concentrating at work. We have since been seeing each other again, almost identical to how we were the past 2 and a half years, but he does not even want to discuss getting back together. He gets skittish and we fight, he insists we are over, but does everything to keep seeing me. He does things for me around the house, takes care of me when I'm sick etc.
My question, is did he really miss me, or, as most posts seem to reflect, DA/FA personalities tend to like the adulation not the person themselves? And my other question, if he didn't want to be with me anymore, why is he now? I'm wondering if it's the title of bf/gf and commitment that makes him feel anxious and suffocated because we spend every weekend together, sometimes mid-week as well and we talk every day?
Just wondering about your perspective, I understand of course everyone is unique and different whatever their attachment style is.
Thanks so much!
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Post by epistasis on Nov 1, 2017 21:57:31 GMT
I am not an FA or DA, but I wanted to add something that might help. I think your situation might not be black and white. I remember my FA ex once told me once that he was attached to me and that was why he didn't want to give up on the relationship as soon as things started going bad. But he still hated the fighting and was skittish as well. If somebody is attached to you, then in my mind, they probably have feelings that are a bit deeper than the surface level. It sounds like your ex is still attached. Also, everybody likes to be around somebody who flatters them regardless of attachment issue or not. Others may be right that he just likes the attention, but I don't know your ex personally to say 100% that I know what is going on in his head. I'm just trying to give you other options to think about from somebody who has also dated a DA/FA.
He may have truly missed you, but their need to protect themselves is ranked higher than the need to connect. My ex also hated the fighting, and that is the reason why all of his relationships have failed.
Also, like I said, I am not DA or FA, but I have been avoidant with certain people in my life. Not romantic relationships though, so this may not translate 100%. But just in case it's helpful, I will say that when I am avoidant, it was towards certain friends and family members who I love and cared for deeply. The avoidance always stemmed from going through a traumatic experience and then being disappointed or feeling abandoned when they could not help me in the way I wanted or needed. These friends and family members had nothing to do with the traumatic event, but I felt myself wall off towards them. I lost trust in them because they didn't seem to fully understand what my needs were after this traumatic event, and I felt so alone and isolated. It wasn't their fault for not knowing exactly what to do, but I avoid getting close with them now and try to keep things light. And I now find myself being extra careful and cautious when I meet new friends because I'm not sure if I can trust them. I never used to be that way. But the point is that my feelings are there for them, but I prefer to close off emotionally to protect myself from future disappointments with them. Luckily, I am aware of my feelings, but not all avoidants are.
I hope that is helpful for you and that you can find peace of mind soon.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 22:20:02 GMT
From experience with my severely da ex and with some avoidant tendencies myself, I would say that it's very likely that he misses you and what you bring to his life, whether this is adulation, stimulation, physical intimacy or whatever. What most avoidants struggle with is the pressure of expectations in a relationship, the ups and the downs. By keeping you in this kind of limbo he gets to have his cake and eat it so to speak ie he gets the good parts that he can deal with and he's in control, on his terms.
Avoidants behave in the way they do in order to maintain control of their environment and that kind of I can't be with you but I don't want you to be with anyone else is typical. Given the chance my ex would be doing exactly that - he cannot compromise himself but continues to only want me and nobody else, tells me and everyone around us he will never want another relationship, spent a year apparently thinking about me constantly when we weren't together but despite begging to reunite, the same cycle played out over and over again.
In the end I don't think the "why" is important here. I know I spent far to long trying to understand what was going on with my ex but in the end that's irrelevant. Eventually it's important that you put yourself first - if this situation is hurting you then be honest with yourself and him and move on - if you are happy with the status quo casual arrangement then that's fine. What really matters is that he doesn't want a relationship and by staying you're effectively agreeing to this. Yes he will miss you and quite likely continue to want contact with you but your needs are important here too.
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Post by abolish on Nov 2, 2017 15:41:34 GMT
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Post by kristyrose on Nov 8, 2017 20:42:47 GMT
Hi Ocarina,
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I think you're right regarding the "why" of things. I keep trying to understand how he can carry on with me like this yet not just want us to be together. But of course, you are spot-on about how the pressures of commitment and expectations of dealing with emotions that are tied to being together are too much for him. He is getting his cake and eating it too- I am at times just happy to be spending time with him, but yes, inside I find myself in a pretty constant state of turmoil. Right now he is in LA taking care of a family member until next week, so in some ways I feel relief that he's not around and I can just try and relax on my own. Yet of course, I miss him and when he contacts me while away, I'm happy again. Vicious cycle indeed.
I hope I can place more focus on my own needs as I sort through this- if I can just do that, I will see how little I am getting in return here.
Thanks again for the support!!
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Post by kristyrose on Nov 15, 2017 19:04:41 GMT
Hi Abolish,
Thank you for the feedback! I greatly appreciate your perspective. It does seem that he will at times seem to want nothing to do with me, as if I'm his enemy, then he's back again and very loving. Since we are no longer a couple in his eyes, I've noticed the push/pull dynamic is less pronounced and he seems more relaxed and even more open. It's a shame though, because the minute I bring up being back together, I know it will trigger him.
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Post by abolish on Nov 16, 2017 12:11:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 15:20:03 GMT
I can definitely relate to all of the above mentioned. My only difference is that my guy is marrie. I have been with him for almost 10 years and I was his girlfriend first. He has been married now for 6 years with one son. Is this typical behavior for FA/DA.
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Post by scheme00 on Nov 16, 2017 18:44:18 GMT
I can definitely relate to all of the above mentioned. My only difference is that my guy is marrie. I have been with him for almost 10 years and I was his girlfriend first. He has been married now for 6 years with one son. Is this typical behavior for FA/DA. Just wow. You have a lot more issues than an avoidant if you are committing to take part in adultery. Especially for this long. |
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Post by stellar1969 on Nov 17, 2017 16:15:17 GMT
I want to point out an extremely important point. Attachment does not equate Love. We want love with these people and most of them are unable to give or receive it.
When someone is attached to us, it it their attachment system that has been triggered by something in us. For example, my ex DA has a fantasy woman. He has known her for ten years through some friends. She was married to one of his friends for five years. When we got together, as FWB's, he told me he was in love with this person. In LOVE. At first, I was willing to talk to him about her because I saw this as a way to get my sexual needs met, then feelings started happening and I asked tougher questions. I asked him why he was in love with her, what he "liked" about her and what he was going to DO about this love?
He said he could never tell her he was in love with her because she would never speak to him again. He said that they used to talk all the time and smoke pot when her infant had gone to bed. She was parenting alone and my ex was happy to be there for her. She always had him in the friend zone, even told him she wouldn't "waste a babysitter" to go out with him for a drink. Ouch.
Come to find out that his Mother is avoidant and slightly NPD. I believe my ex is replaying the lost relationship with his mother with this woman. The love he always wanted but that she would never give him. Exact replay with this woman.
Add to that the fact that he could tell me ten things he liked and appreciated about me, but couldn't figure out what he "loved" about her.
He also thinks he is still in love with his first girlfriend, she was perfect. She ghosted him after four years of dating. Yep. This guy has some big issues.
He is in love with women that won't let him love them and won't love him in return. yet I show up and truly show him love and care and he is scared. I am not a familiar scenario for him. I am available and willing to be with him. Like some have said, he was also only with me, even though I dated others. He has no need for more than one woman at a time, although I could argue that the fantasy woman was always there, in between us.
I ended this relationship after 18 months of anxiety and daily turmoil of wondering if he would text me back or show up for our dates. It was hell and it was pure beauty.
I didn't initiate any attachment memories from how he grew up, so I was not someone he could love or be attached to.
He has let me go without even a word.
But I am sure SHE is still using him and has him in the friend zone. My heart goes out to him. I love him deeply, but I love myself more.
This got a bit off topic, but I hope my point came through.
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Post by kristyrose on Nov 17, 2017 18:28:56 GMT
Well, can you just be what you are in this moment? If there is any solution to attachment issues it's patience, time and understanding. Hi Abolish, I came to the conclusion probably about 2 months ago that if I want to see him and have him in my life, I need to just let things be. I do get anxious and antsy about not knowing if we will ever be back together, but then I also ask myself what do I really want? I tried dating others and even turned away from my ex to start over, but somehow we end up back in each others lives and to be honest, I'm just happier with him, than without. That much I do know. I had to end it with a very secure man I was briefly dating, because I just didn't have strong feelings. I know some may say it's because of our attachment dynamic that we are both in this, but I don't think it's that simple. I love him a lot, and I would like to try and be patient with him. I see a therapist and he refuses, so I have more self awareness and am willing to do the work. At some point though, I do want to have a talk. I guess it's all in the timing but I don't want to trigger him. What do you think? |
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Post by kristyrose on Nov 17, 2017 18:31:36 GMT
Hi Stellar1969,
I think you make a very excellent and true point. I have wondered many times if my ex is either fixated on someone from his past, or simply looking for that perfect future person- he said to me once he wants to find true love and this all while we were together! That's very hurtful to hear when I was sitting there right in front of him loving him very much.
When we are together, I can feel his love, but he won't ever say it in words. He has told me that he cannot really say it to anyone and isn't sure he can feel it- so again, your point is so valid, hard to want to face for some of us, but true.
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Post by stellar1969 on Nov 18, 2017 2:26:08 GMT
Hi Stellar1969, I think you make a very excellent and true point. I have wondered many times if my ex is either fixated on someone from his past, or simply looking for that perfect future person- he said to me once he wants to find true love and this all while we were together! That's very hurtful to hear when I was sitting there right in front of him loving him very much. When we are together, I can feel his love, but he won't ever say it in words. He has told me that he cannot really say it to anyone and isn't sure he can feel it- so again, your point is so valid, hard to want to face for some of us, but true. The perfect fantasy person doesn't exist, so its easy for them to fixate on someone unattainable. This woman my ex is fixated on has a type and he is not it. I have also heard painful words directed at me. Things like if he were to get married, it wouldn't be to me, that I'm not his type. That he loves me, but like a friend. Obviously a friend he has sex with but, lol.... And his ex is perfect in his mind, but she hurt him and I think he forgets that. He once told me that we are FWB's and that means if he finds a woman he wants to be closer with tomorrow, he would just tell me and we would stop being lovers, but that when/if they broke up, he would let me know and we could start up again. I laughed at this response and told him that I thought it was amazing this example. That I might be waiting in the wings for him is laughable. That he can set me aside and then beckon me back? No way. I said to him that I thought he didn't want a girlfriend anyways and he said, yeah, well, thats just an example and really its only if my ex comes back and wants to be with me. His ex who ghosted him 16 years ago and is married with children. Is anyone else laughing with me here? I have to laugh or I will cry forever its so hurtful. I have been more kind and loving to him than anyone in his life. He told me. So, I guess I'm disposable? The fantasy woman though? She jerks him around beckoning him to do things for her, watch her kid...all the while he wants her, but honestly, if he got her, he'd have no clue what to do. I drove that relationship. He has no clue. I am not putting him down, but just showing how troubled he is and how messy these things get. My heart is all twisted up over this relationship and it will be a while until I open up again. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 10:36:14 GMT
I have to ask why do we stay?
This is not blaming the avoidant but everyone here seems to be rational and intelligent and yet so many stay with partners who are unwilling to take responsibility for the part they play in causing damage in the relationship. This is fundamental to any partnership - the 50/50 share in dealing with problems, taking responsibility and working on healing oneself and the relationship. Without this the relationship is surely destined for disaster?
The das think they love the unavailable ex or fantasy woman - but we are in the same boat - we think we love the person who is subjecting us to all this pain but isn't this just another kind of wharped attachment?
It's a cliche but a true one, that we can't love anyone until we truly love ourselves - if we did the latter surely we wouldn't remain in the orbit of a partner who hurts us?
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Post by stellar1969 on Nov 18, 2017 16:37:01 GMT
I have to ask why do we stay? This is not blaming the avoidant but everyone here seems to be rational and intelligent and yet so many stay with partners who are unwilling to take responsibility for the part they play in causing damage in the relationship. This is fundamental to any partnership - the 50/50 share in dealing with problems, taking responsibility and working on healing oneself and the relationship. Without this the relationship is surely destined for disaster? The das think they love the unavailable ex or fantasy woman - but we are in the same boat - we think we love the person who is subjecting us to all this pain but isn't this just another kind of wharped attachment? It's a cliche but a true one, that we can't love anyone until we truly love ourselves - if we did the latter surely we wouldn't remain in the orbit of a partner who hurts us? Ocarina, Therapy has shown mw that we stay until we no longer get our attachment systems stimulated by the avoidants. Secure people would most likely not put up with a fraction of what we put up with. My therapist told me that this man was a perfect repeat of my Family of Origin. The love I tried so hard to get, but never could, no matter how sweet and loving I was/am. I believe the solution is to notice what I am doing, why I am picking these types of men and yes, start loving myself more than I think I love these men. I stayed as long as I did, 18 months, because I wasn't even sure of what was happening for quite some time. When I noticed the signs of attachment, I definitely changed my behavior and he noticed and he started to separate, become more distant. I doubt he even knows what he is doing, the push-pull, since its so ingrained in his behavior, but he distanced himself. He started showing me more clearly who he was, not sugar coating things and our final 5 months were mostly about disentangling. I speak only for myself, but have heard from many that these attachment couplings have some of the strongest chemistry of any relationships. We stay for the amazing sex. I stayed for the daily intimate texting. I stayed for the sweetest kisses I have ever had. I stayed for the pillow talk that Ive never experienced until this man, the intellectual exchange was powerful for this sapiosexual. I left because he showed his coldness. Because he never wanted a girlfriend in the first place, at least not me, and I was tired of having someone who felt like a boyfriend, but wasn't. I left because my level of anxiety was on high being constantly triggered by abandonment. I left at the end because I value myself over that relationship. Today, nearly two months since our last date and 7 weeks since I sent a letter ending things, I am sad. I miss the good things, but I am no longer anxious, at all. My friends are so excited that I ended things. Those friendships are now able to get stronger. They were pressed by my constant need to discuss that man. Now, I will see the signs of these DA/FA folks and I won't pick them. I am only AP in romantic relationships, so I know what it feels like to love people from a secure place. Im taking time off of dating to heal my heart and train my mind to choose healthier connections. I wish my ex all the best, all the love he can find. I am glad I met him. He showed me parts of myself I never knew existed. I will always have love for him, but he cannot be in my life. I get too triggered and too off kilter. He hasn't reached out once, so I have no worries that he wants back in. Thats a relief and also it hurts. But mostly Im good. |
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