gus23
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Posts: 22
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Post by gus23 on Aug 2, 2021 15:12:14 GMT
Not sure what I’m looking for but thought I would share my story and would like any input or feedback you have to offer.
I dated a wonderful woman for 4 months and she was everything I was looking for. It seemed like the perfect match that would be LTR I have been looking for since getting divorced 4 years ago. The first date there was just an instant connection that I had never really felt before. It seemed the feeling was mutual. After a week or 2 I started send Good Morning texts. Sometimes I got a reply other times I did not. I just assumed that she just was a bad texter.
Everything was great when we were together. A little more than a month into the relationship I was trying to setup what was our 12 date. That weekend she was really slow to respond and was kinda non committal to the date which was out of character for her. We finally set the time and place for the date. About 5 mins before I was leaving to meet her she called. I could tell she was a bit off by the sound of her voice. She said that knew that I was sincere and genuine but she just didn’t know how someone could be so early in the relationship. I thought she was going to break it off with me. I stayed calm and basically was just asking for an exit interview to see what I could do better in my next relationship.
She then decided to come out for our date. I learned a lot about her that night and I thought we got back on track. She let me know more about her ex husband and the way he treated her. He was always sarcastic and she was always the butt of it even so in Public with people they didn’t know.
She shared more about her past relationships since her divorce 4 years earlier. She had ended all of the anywhere from 6 weeks to 6-8 months. It sounded like each one had ended for a good reason . One was right after her divorce and she realized it was too soon. One was an alcoholic, another lied about having a job and he was unemployed, another one which sounded like she had gave her heart to was out meeting other women. She also said to tends to run from relationships when they are going well. She told me a few times she wanted me to succeed with her so she was giving me all the information I needed to do that.
So she had a hard time when I got creative with some of my good morning texts. For example a day without you is a day without sunshine. She said she didn’t know how to respond and would thinking about it forever. 5 mins would turn into 10 mins then 2 hours then 4. Then she said she felt terrible for not responding.
After our conversation that night everything was great for a couple of months. She was responding, initiating text and calling. We were seeing each other as much as possible. With her having 2 kids and work schedule her time was limited but we were making it work. She still wanted to take things slow which I was fine with. She was very affectionate, hand holding, kissing etc. She just wanted to wait to go all the way until she was sure about me so it wouldn’t cloud her judgement. That happened around month 3. She shared grand plans of a future with me. Telling me how I was perfect for her. What she was always looking for. How she wanted a partner, needed a partner, wanted to spent her time with me. It truly was amazing I thought I found the one.
Then the month of July came. She started to have less contact with me which I thought was just her busy schedule and the kids. Started to be slow or not responding to texts and not initiating much on her side. It made me anxious like it did at the one month mark before our conversation then. When we were together however things still great. We went on our first trip together and I told her I loved her. Her response was silence. She then said she had commitment issues. Talked more about her kids and was worried how her ex was going to respond to her dating. Kept saying things would be better once I met the kids. Which I know we weren’t to that point yet and there was no rush. After that trip things seemed to still be pretty good. I watch her dog that weekend and she was in contact with me then.
Then she kinda went cold again and responding went down again. We had another trip planned that happened a couple of weeks ago and I thought hopefully we could get back on track. Unfortunately I could tell she just was a little bit off. She wasn’t nearly as affectionate as she had been just a week prior.
On the drive back home I asked her what was going on. I have always been pretty good at reading her which she said most people can’t do. She said she couldn’t just go on feelings anymore and was worried about messing up what she had going on with her kids and the life she had built for them. She said didn’t think it was fair for her to make a decision that would affect her kids so much. Thru out the entire relationship she just kept saying I’m the first person she has ever wanted to introduce to the kids when the time was right.
It seems like she was trying to pick out any little flaw I have to be a reason it wouldn’t work and she couldn’t see a future with me anymore. She sounded so certain about us just 3 weeks before. We got back from the trip texted like normal for a couple of days and then she stopped responding. For 4 days no response to my text and I only sent 1 text a day. Finally she replied she didn’t want to hurt me but didn’t want to lead me on. That she was really sorry. She also said we could still be friends and would try to meet me this week to talk and exchange items. She was always telling me how good I was to her and how thoughtful and kind I was. The stuff about the kids just seem to be the excuse. It seems she is just running away from a good thing.
It all just flipped so fast. Sad and confused.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 2, 2021 16:59:52 GMT
Hi Gus and welcome….I know it seemed as if everything “flipped” but as I read your story, I could pick up on signs from the beginning that she wasn’t as committed as you were. Poor communication isn’t a thing…poor communication is a warning sign…especially if it is not discussed and is not addressed mutually. Her history of dating, although it seems like she had valid reasons to break up with all those men is also a warning sign because she does not have a history of long term relationships after her divorce. I do believe she wanted the relationship with you to be different…I don’t think was lying…but just as you were working of an idealized version of her, she was doing the same with you. The initial phase of any dating relationship(up to the first year) is just getting to know each other and her own insecurities/doubts/fears that she did not discuss with you are probably what led to her decision to break up. I think what is catching you off guard, and it did with me as well when the guy I dated broke up with me, is the fact that the decision was made solely by her at a time when you thought things were still going ok. This has to do with her own insecurities which likely have led to her ending relationships instead of trying to work them through. But I have a question for you….what made her, in only 4 months time a woman who had everything you were looking for? Especially given that she was not great at communicating with you. I ask because I too have found myself projecting a fantasy of a person versus who that person truly was.
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gus23
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Posts: 22
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Post by gus23 on Aug 2, 2021 17:18:55 GMT
Hi tnr9,
Thanks for the reply! She seemed to be everything I was looking for because it was a great connection from the start. I thought at the time communication was going to be really good. For example the way she talked to me at the one month telling me about her past and insecurities she had. I think I left it out of my story but she did it again a few weeks later when I said something that made her uncomfortable in front one of her good friends. It was a pretty innocent comment just giving her a compliment. She let me know so she wouldn't push me away because she "wanted me to succeed". She followed that up by saying I didn't do anything wrong and it was her issue. So I kinda thought the communication was there. She would tell me that her feelings were growing strong each day and she loved the emotional connection that we had. I have never had someone say as many kind/nice things to me in any relationship. About a week before it ended she stayed over and still talked about a future together. That's why it seemed to have flipped so fast. I guess I was really buying into the fantasy she created. I also was still wanting to see where it was going to go as I was still learning more about her.
Edit:
The first relationship she had after her divorce sounded like it was going pretty well other than it was too soon for both of them. However she it say she bolted from that relationship and ghosted the guy. She promised she would never do that to me.....but seemed like she almost did.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 2, 2021 18:31:46 GMT
After a week or 2 I started send Good Morning texts. Sometimes I got a reply other times I did not. A little more than a month into the relationship I was trying to setup what was our 12 date. That weekend she was really slow to respond and was kinda non committal to the date which was out of character for her. She said that knew that I was sincere and genuine but she just didn’t know how someone could be so early in the relationship. She let me know more about her ex husband and the way he treated her. He was always sarcastic and she was always the butt of it even so in Public with people they didn’t know. She shared more about her past relationships since her divorce 4 years earlier. She had ended all of the anywhere from 6 weeks to 6-8 months. It sounded like each one had ended for a good reason . One was right after her divorce and she realized it was too soon. One was an alcoholic, another lied about having a job and he was unemployed, another one which sounded like she had gave her heart to was out meeting other women. She also said to tends to run from relationships when they are going well. She told me a few times she wanted me to succeed with her so she was giving me all the information I needed to do that. So she had a hard time when I got creative with some of my good morning texts. For example a day without you is a day without sunshine. She said she didn’t know how to respond and would thinking about it forever. 5 mins would turn into 10 mins then 2 hours then 4. Then she said she felt terrible for not responding. I'm sorry you're going through this, and I think your instinct to peg her as FA is probably correct. I agree with everything tnr9 said, and I've been in similar situations (some that dragged out waaaaay longer, so it may not seem this way now but she did you a favor telling you she couldn't do it so early in the relationship, because unfortunately when someone has these issues and isn't addressing them, it's the inevitable conclusion and just a matter of when). I've highlighted some important points you made in your post to show you the reality of what she was trying to say, even though she was inconsistent and not very good about communicating it. She did still try, which in my personal experience is usually about the best someone with these unaddressed commitment and attachment issues can do. When someone's words and actions don't line up early on, and especially if they're warning you about their issues, it's best to go with the most negative of the mismatch instead of the most positive. Not because people aren't to be trusted or given the benefit of the doubt unless and until they prove otherwise. But because the mismatch and inconsistency in itself is the red flag, and they're actually telling or showing you who they are through it, so choosing to listen to the positive aspects of the inconsistency before you know someone well, instead of looking at the entire situation as a whole, is projection. You said it surfaced that she acted out of character after only a month, but you didn't know what her character was yet and it turned out that was the real her as she actually continued acting that inconsistent way for 3 months after. In this case, she told you she's attracted to men who mistreat her, and she runs from good relationships. She also default approaches better relationships with distrust (which will inevitably sabotage them). By spinning this as she wants this to work (which I'm sure she did mean when she said it) so she's giving you that information so YOU can succeed, she's actually dumping all the responsibility to deal with her issues on her side on you. That's because she doesn't want to confront her issues or change, she wants the circumstance and partner to be perfect for her in hopes that will make her inner feelings (about herself and relationships) somehow magically change and it'll fix everything without her doing the necessary work. People who are unaware of their attachment issues, or unwilling to deal with them, often have this point of view, and you can't change it. You didn't cause it, and it is their problem not yours, which means only they can solve it. She wasn't looking to solve it, she was looking for excuses (as you noticed). I don't think you did anything wrong here except choose the wrong partner (although good morning texts so soon is a bit fast! You can slow that down a couple more weeks, but it's not make or break in a compatible situation that's going well). But this post is all focused on her and you don't say much about yourself besides you're divorced. Do you tend to be attracted to women who aren't fully available, do the relationships without struggle seem to lack sparks for you? Do you know what your attachment style is? I find it interesting that in 4 years you made it sound like you haven't met a woman who made you seek an LTR until you met this one who has commitment issues, so it may be worth reflecting on that, though I have very little information to go on in saying that. |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 2, 2021 18:31:50 GMT
Hi tnr9, Thanks for the reply! She seemed to be everything I was looking for because it was a great connection from the start. I thought at the time communication was going to be really good. For example the way she talked to me at the one month telling me about her past and insecurities she had. I think I left it out of my story but she did it again a few weeks later when I said something that made her uncomfortable in front one of her good friends. It was a pretty innocent comment just giving her a compliment. She let me know so she wouldn't push me away because she "wanted me to succeed". She followed that up by saying I didn't do anything wrong and it was her issue. So I kinda thought the communication was there. She would tell me that her feelings were growing strong each day and she loved the emotional connection that we had. I have never had someone say as many kind/nice things to me in any relationship. About a week before it ended she stayed over and still talked about a future together. That's why it seemed to have flipped so fast. I guess I was really buying into the fantasy she created. I also was still wanting to see where it was going to go as I was still learning more about her. Edit: The first relationship she had after her divorce sounded like it was going pretty well other than it was too soon for both of them. However she it say she bolted from that relationship and ghosted the guy. She promised she would never do that to me.....but seemed like she almost did. She stated how she was feeling in the moment but her actions seem to imply a hesitation on her part. I understand the desire to get to the bottom of her motives…and in truth…no one in the scenario is “to blame”. And she did not ghost you, which is a sign that she kept her word. And I agree with all that alexandra has said. I know it is incredibly challenging when you think you have found someone who is going to go the distance and in hindsight there were red flags and a background of broken relationships. |
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gus23
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Posts: 22
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Post by gus23 on Aug 2, 2021 18:56:00 GMT
Thanks Alexandra,
Even though it was only 4 months this was by far the most promising relationship since I have been divorced. It took me a long time to get over my ex-wife and how she left. (ran off with a co-worker with only knowing him for a month or two) I would say I'm probably more secure with a little bit of AP. When married I was always secure. This past relationship did make me feel anxious here and there. Mostly because of her hot and cold texting behavior. I guess I kind of have a fear of abandonment now after how my ex-wife left. I have been on a lot of first dates. I think about 7 this year. When I met this one I wasn't expecting much and waited a couple of months in the dating apps to contact her after she "liked" me. She also like me in a different app about a 15 months ago but I never responded. But after that first date I was kind of hooked. I went all out, well for me anyway and was respectfully aggressive. Even though I normally on the shy side. I had never done the whole Good Morning text thing before until her. I have never been a fan of PDA but with her it was like we were the only two people that existed in public. (She also said she had never been a fan of PDA either and it was just different with me) I would say this is the first time I have ever had a relationship with a FA. I think I normally have been with secure partners. So maybe that was the drawl to her? I know I will probably see her one more time to exchange items but I don't know if I should wait while or go ahead and do it. She is very focused on her 2 children as she should be. But it does seem see is hyper focused on that and what her ex-husband may say or do. I don't know....I'm all over the place right now.
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 2, 2021 23:46:19 GMT
Sounds like an avoidant Gus. Unfortunately avoidants have learnt the social graces of dating etc so they can come off as extremely charming to draw you in completely. And they know it. If they don't go hard in the beginning, they won't get anyone because of their avoidance. So they tend to love bomb you in the beginning, painting a really nice picture for you. Its all lies.
But those hot and cold, making you feel anxious, nitpicking on your tiniest flaws, hyperfocusing on her children (they believe they're the ones that won't leave her) they are the typical symptoms of dealing with an avoidant/emotionally unavailable. And they all are the same - all their exes are bad. Never them. That's a big red flag. Same as you, I was married for 16 years and I was secure but nothing makes me into an anxious mess quite like an avoidant. Then the avoidant will turn your anxiety against you, making it the sole reason to break up because you're "smothering" them.
Please walk away. You're only setting yourself up for more heartache and total mental devastation if you decide to pursue her. Consider yourself lucky that she is showing her real face within months. For me personally, she pretended for a year where we even bought the wedding dress after meeting my parents in my home country.....
You sound like a nice person but remember this, sometimes you can be a complete package at the wrong address.
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gus23
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by gus23 on Aug 3, 2021 0:04:32 GMT
Thanks dullboat!
Funny you mention love bombing. On our first date I actually talked to her about love bombing and she had never heard the term before. My ex-wife left me for someone with NPD. He had all the signs. It was his love bombing that roped her in. But that is other story for a different message board.
Looking back I can now see how I was just a little anxious about how she wasn't responding to me like use to. I mentioned it to her and she upped her game for about a week before withdrawing a little bit more. Certainly made me feel off. She always had something that had to happen before something could happen. I didn't go over to her house for almost 2 months in. The reason first was it wasn't clean enough because my own house is spotless. Then it was the dog had to be groomed and bathed before I met him. Both those then finally did happen but it took much longer than it should have. Same thing with meeting the kids. XYZ had to happen before I could meet them. But XYZ kept changing. I wasn't ready to meet the kids anyways and I told her I was will to wait as long as it took. Then it was not wanting to change the happy life she had built for her kids. I told her if they didn't like me there was always the option for her to back out then. Her response.....I'm sure they would like you.
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 3, 2021 0:30:05 GMT
Thanks dullboat! Funny you mention love bombing. On our first date I actually talked to her about love bombing and she had never heard the term before. My ex-wife left me for someone with NPD. He had all the signs. It was his love bombing that roped her in. But that is other story for a different message board. Looking back I can now see how I was just a little anxious about how she wasn't responding to me like use to. I mentioned it to her and she upped her game for about a week before withdrawing a little bit more. Certainly made me feel off. She always had something that had to happen before something could happen. I didn't go over to her house for almost 2 months in. The reason first was it wasn't clean enough because my own house is spotless. Then it was the dog had to be groomed and bathed before I met him. Both those then finally did happen but it took much longer than it should have. Same thing with meeting the kids. XYZ had to happen before I could meet them. But XYZ kept changing. I wasn't ready to meet the kids anyways and I told her I was will to wait as long as it took. Then it was not wanting to change the happy life she had built for her kids. I told her if they didn't like me there was always the option for her to back out then. Her response.....I'm sure they would like you. Hi Gus, that is natural that someone is doing love bombing or being an avoidant but doesn't know the term. My ex wife is full blown NPD so I know how it is but unfortunately, my avoidant ex DID show signs of narcissism but I did not know what avoidance is so I got strung along like a toy before she breaks up with me over the stupidest reason and within a day. Its like a tap switched off. One day, she is telling me we are exclusive, fixing the relationship, moving in together, even have a name for our future daughter......a day after that, she completely withdraws. No good morning texts nothing. Even Buddha would be anxious so I reached out, the whole day, I sent 8 messages. 8. Not 30. In the end, she said I'm making her feel edgy again and that was it. That was the end. That was the end of everything - from adoring me, wanting to marry me to complete enemy WITHIN A DAY. I can see you getting trapped similarly. So please, for your own mental health, cut your losses and walk away. Bear in mind that the initial connection isn't real. Its them acting. Yes all those rigid "rules" for things to happen before something else can happen, its them controlling the game. If they have no control, they will fell anxious and withdraw or not participate. Where does that leave you? Yes, feeling anxious as f**k. Its not healthy, it will shorten your life having that much stress all the time. Avoidants and people with NPD share the same traits when they have kids - they hyperfocus on their kids because they think that their own kids are the only ones that will not leave them like everybody else does. My NPD ex wife did the same so much so that I have absolutely no say whatsoever in the kids. Its all her say, all her decisions, all I'm required to do is pay and work like a slave. I'm not even allowed to go out with my friends. Ended up I have no friends and I was so so lonely even when I have my family physically there. My avoidant ex said something very obvious - she said she can't love my kids because they're not hers and they will leave her. At that time, I find it extremely odd because my kids love her so much. In the end, she hurt my kids because my kids miss her. Never again will I ever let anyone hurt my kids like that again. Here are some of the articles which helped me with closure which I never got. I hope they help you too in identifying these emotionless robots: psychcentral.com/blog/love-matters/2018/07/16-signs-of-an-avoidant-or-unavailable-partner#1www.news24.com/w24/SelfCare/Love/Dating/11-signs-to-help-you-spot-an-emotionally-unavailable-person-and-save-yourself-some-heartache-20200609poosh.com/signs-your-partner-is-emotionally-unavailable/www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/emotionally-unavailable-what-it-means-and-15-signs-to-look-forPlease don't get me wrong that I am trying to put a wet blanket on you but from what I see, it points to the direction of devastation. After all, this is supposed to be the sweetest time of any budding relationship. If its already causing you so much stress, anxiety and confusion, it might be an indication of things to come in the future. |
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gus23
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Post by gus23 on Aug 3, 2021 0:45:07 GMT
Wow dullboat!
Thanks for the links I'll check them out. The very last conversation I had with her was on our drive back from our short 2 day vacation. Like I posted in my OP it was first about her kids and then she said that she didn't like how I spent my time during the summer and if I ended up doing the same thing next summer she would resent me for it and it made me not compatible for her. (I'm a teacher so I get 2 months off) It sounded like she basically she wanted me to get a job for the summer. I've been teaching for 18 years and don't need the extra income why would I get a summer job. She said that I became predictable when she would call me on her way home for work and she knew exactly what I was going to tell her I did during the day. I still don't know what it matters what I do with my own time during the summer especially only 4 months into a relationship.
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 3, 2021 0:50:05 GMT
Like I posted in my OP it was first about her kids and then she said that she didn't like how I spent my time during the summer and if I ended up doing the same thing next summer she would resent me for it and it made me not compatible for her. Yeah if that's not a big red flag, I don't know what is. She is already emotionally blackmailing you. WTF man. She is toxic. I bet my left testicle that her marriage breakdown is because of her, not her ex husband. Relationships with avoidants and people with NPD feels so damn lonely and isolated that you have no choice but to pull the pin. Yes they will find the smallest bullshit excuse to latch onto, so that they can justify that they are not the bad guy for breaking up, its always your fault. My avoidant ex's excuse? I ask too many questions. Its because with her, the house is silent. She doesn't talk, she just spend all day watching Netflix or endlessly scrolling Instagram on the bed than building a deep connection with me. She has NEVER ask me about my kids or my parents like she doesn't care. That's typical destructive distancing behaviour of an avoidant. Tell me, who wouldn't get anxious in such a dynamic? |
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gus23
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Posts: 22
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Post by gus23 on Aug 3, 2021 0:51:48 GMT
That's kind of what I was thinking. I now do wonder what kind of guy her ex-husband really is.
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 3, 2021 0:55:42 GMT
That's kind of what I was thinking. I now do wonder what kind of guy her ex-husband really is. Probably a decent guy that gives in everything because he loves her...till he can no longer deal with the loneliness and coldness. Then when people leave the avoidant because of the coldness and loneliness, it satisfy their internal narrative that everybody leaves. And since avoidants seldom have the ability to look within themselves and self reflect, they will never see that it's their issue that caused the break up. However the avoidants on this forum are the ones that, after almost half their lives being in devastating relationships, finally realizes it and is seeking help to improve. However they still would not agree with me with my assessment of avoidants. |
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gus23
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Posts: 22
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Post by gus23 on Aug 3, 2021 1:05:13 GMT
I hope she will get the help she needs at some point to break this pattern she's in. I'm sure other guys have treated her well. However I treated her like a princess. I really went all out like I have never done before.
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 3, 2021 1:20:24 GMT
Unfortunately, one of the traits of being avoidant/emotionally unavailable, is that you can take a bullet for them but they do not have the emotional depth to feel the significance of that. Thats what I noticed with my ex too. I am supportive, attentive, caring, loving, I stuck my neck out for her, she has no money, I literally gave her money without her asking......but in the end, she latched onto 5% of my "flaw" of asking too many questions (as if thats a bad thing) and break up, ignoring the 95% of good I bring.
That's what avoidants do. If they cannot find any flaws, their anxiety will go through the roof like my ex as she eats diazepam like world is ending. That's because she couldn't find any flaws with me. I proved beyond any doubt that I am husband material, I encouraged her to go back to University and supported her hobby where everybody laughed at her.....Its just very disappointing having a relationship with an avoidant.
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