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Post by drmtrvlr on Sept 11, 2021 21:56:14 GMT
An avoidant partner will often become more secure with a secure partner?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2021 22:30:35 GMT
I think so. If the avoidant is aware and pursuing development, especially, and maybe only if the avoidant is aware and pursuing development. I am avoidant/secure; when I met my boyfriend I was quite a bit more avoidant. He's anxious *leaning and has some anxious behaviors but they are mild, mostly arising in conflict I'd say. I think he's always been more toward the secure middle than me and we have grown more secure as a couple. There is no one size fits all but most insecures do better with a secure partner. And, all of this occurs on a spectrum so it depends on the level of each partner's ratio of secure to insecure patterns. It's wildly variable. I've never experienced the kind of toxic avoidant/anxious interplay with him, and that's down to both of us being aware of ourselves and equally invested in the health of the relationship. I've been with more AP men and that's a no-go for me, very bad for me. So we happened to find a compatible mix. We are mature, as well, he's late forties and I'm early 50's and that helps. If you are asking for a friend  whether or not a person can act more secure in order to change their unaware avoidant partner, definitely not. |
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Post by virusbkk on Sept 12, 2021 5:42:52 GMT
This is possible only if the DA is self-aware of their issues.
Most DA's aren't because the DA attachment style at it's core is based on self-reliance, independence with a positive self-image while maintaining a negative view of their partners.
"There's nothing wrong with me, what is there to fix? He/she had xyz flaws, it wouldn't have worked out anyways" - DA
"Why is he/she avoiding me?! Is it something I did?! OMG, is he/she going to leave me? I knew I shouldn't have done that!" - AP
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Post by alexandra on Sept 12, 2021 8:36:12 GMT
"There's nothing wrong with me, what is there to fix? He/she had xyz flaws, it wouldn't have worked out anyways" - DA I disagree with this. I know plenty of avoidants who, even when unaware, definitely think there's plenty wrong with themselves. But they don't know what it is. Once they feel threatened, whether by intimacy or by boundary issues, they do find flaws as a distancing and deactivating mechanism. That doesn't mean they'll fix it for a relationship, though, especially if unaware, so in that sense there's nothing "wrong" to fix if someone else is trying to change them. Like anyone else, they'll work on themselves for themselves if they really want to. Or they won't if they don't really want to. OP, a secure partner won't trigger an insecure partner as much as an insecure partner triggers another insecure partner. So if the avoidant is aware and is self-motivated to become more secure, with a secure partner they'll have the space to do it with more safety / stability provided, better consistency and communication from the secure partner, and fewer layers of triggering (they only have to deal with them triggering themselves as opposed to dealing with their own insecure triggers and their insecure partner's attachment issues). Since @introvert is an avoidant working through it, she's giving a good perspective. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2021 15:02:27 GMT
This is possible only if the DA is self-aware of their issues. Most DA's aren't because the DA attachment style at it's core is based on self-reliance, independence with a positive self-image while maintaining a negative view of their partners. "There's nothing wrong with me, what is there to fix? He/she had xyz flaws, it wouldn't have worked out anyways" - DA "Why is he/she avoiding me?! Is it something I did?! OMG, is he/she going to leave me? I knew I shouldn't have done that!" - AP Maintaining a positive self image for me never included thinking I was good at relationships. There's just a general sense of confusion and "I don't know how to do this" along side a recognition that a clingy partner's behavior is definitely something they don't want to experience. That's probably why DA discount the importance of relationship. There are many other areas of life that have meaning, where DA may do very well and feel belonging and at home. With an underactive (or completely shut down) attachment system in their nervous system, it's understandable that not being good at relationships might not ding them as much as it dings an AP, who is over reliant and whose attachment system is on overdrive. AP tend to think they are good at relationship when they are not, perhaps by believing that over accommodating makes a good partner. However, there is a lack of empathy and attunement in both AP and DA strategies. DA may compensate for their lack of relationship success with success in other areas. If you think of the original environment that they developed in, this isn't hard to understand, as they were left to find other ways to find comfort and a reason to exist. Also, AP behavior is alienating by any standard, just as DA is, and as we've seen, blaming others is a big part of the AP coping strategy. The point being, a lack of personal responsibly goes both ways because neither was conditioned to believe that they belong, are safe, are valuable, and developed defense mechanisms accordingly. Insecure is insecure. It's really as though both operate with similar shortcomings, the difference being what fears are conscious vs unconscious, and whether the attachment system is overactive or under active. You've written in another post how it's a single belief in an avoidant that is the obstacle to interdependence, and that's inaccurate. There is a whole branch of the nervous system that is responsible for the inability to connect in a healthy way, both in AP and DA, as well as FA. Being with a regulated partner (whose nervous system is regulated and in safe mode) is a very healing experience indeed. In my case, I have needed to reform habits and relax into a new way of living with a partner who is consistent and truly available. We both have healthy independence inside the relationship, and so if we are engaged in our own pursuits there is no jealousy or destabilizing behavior. We have had to learn how to communicate around our differences, as any couple does. It's a mutual effort, made possible by the fact we aren't constantly feeling dismayed by the behavior of the other. I am attracted rather than repelled by a more secure partner. He enjoys my traits, finds me unique and attractive for some of the things inherent in a DA profile that make me independent but not unavailable. He sees strength there. When you become healthier things don't appear so black and white, and there are upsides to different qualities the types express. |
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 12, 2021 15:26:50 GMT
This is possible only if the DA is self-aware of their issues. Most DA's aren't because the DA attachment style at it's core is based on self-reliance, independence with a positive self-image while maintaining a negative view of their partners. "There's nothing wrong with me, what is there to fix? He/she had xyz flaws, it wouldn't have worked out anyways" - DA "Why is he/she avoiding me?! Is it something I did?! OMG, is he/she going to leave me? I knew I shouldn't have done that!" - AP Maintaining a positive self image for me never included thinking I was good at relationships. There's just a general sense of confusion and "I don't know how to do this" along side a recognition that a clingy partner's behavior is definitely something they don't want to experience. That's probably why DA discount the importance of relationship. There are many other areas of life that have meaning, where DA may do very well and feel belonging and at home. With an underactive (or completely shut down) attachment system in their nervous system, it's understandable that not being good at relationships might not ding them as much as it dings an AP, who is over reliant and whose attachment system is on overdrive. AP tend to think they are good at relationship when they are not, perhaps by believing that over accommodating makes a good partner. However, there is a lack of empathy and attunement in both AP and DA strategies. DA may compensate for their lack of relationship success with success in other areas. If you think of the original environment that they developed in, this isn't hard to understand, as they were left to find other ways to find comfort and a reason to exist. Also, AP behavior is alienating by any standard, just as DA is, and as we've seen, blaming others is a big part of the AP coping strategy. The point being, a lack of personal responsibly goes both ways because neither was conditioned to believe that they belong, are safe, are valuable, and developed defense mechanisms accordingly. Insecure is insecure. It's really as though both operate with similar shortcomings, the difference being what fears are conscious vs unconscious, and whether the attachment system is overactive or under active. You've written in another post how it's a single belief in an avoidant that is the obstacle to interdependence, and that's inaccurate. There is a whole branch of the nervous system that is responsible for the inability to connect in a healthy way, both in AP and DA, as well as FA. Being with a regulated partner (whose nervous system is regulated and in safe mode) is a very healing experience indeed. In my case, I have needed to reform habits and relax into a new way of living with a partner who is consistent and truly available. We both have healthy independence inside the relationship, and so if we are engaged in our own pursuits there is no jealousy or destabilizing behavior. We have had to learn how to communicate around our differences, as any couple does. It's a mutual effort, made possible by the fact we aren't constantly feeling dismayed by the behavior of the other. I am attracted rather than repelled by a more secure partner. He enjoys my traits, finds me unique and attractive for some of the things inherent in a DA profile that make me independent but not unavailable. He sees strength there. When you become healthier things don't appear so black and white, and there are upsides to different qualities the types express. I am going to chime in here because I believe, depending on childhood wounding, an AP or AP leaning attachment can either blame others or blame self….I fall into the second category….I have always blamed myself for the issues in a relationship. I don’t think I am a special snowflake…but I think we tend to get a higher concentration of those who blame their partner here. It was not ok to blame my parents so I took all the blame onto myself and that has continued into all my adult relationships and I am still working on that boundary today. Also….just to expand on why those with AP or AP leaning attachment believe we are better partners is this “other” consideration…..I am not saying that we are truly other focused…it is more “what do I perceive you need via my own fear, which leads to assumptions versus a real desire to know your needs”. What it looks like to an AP is that an avoidant is focused primarily on self protection….thus pulling away when an AP feels a need to get closer. In this dance neither partner is able to really be a good partner, but it requires an awareness and healing of past tapes and a true awareness of me, you, us in relationship. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2021 15:40:34 GMT
I'll add... it's not just being inadequate at relationship that has eaten me in the past- it's the inability to create a great experience for someone else that has made me feel flawed. For instance, trying to plan a special occasion, or a trip, or something like that for others- I feel a failure at it. My intention is there but somehow I don't feel I can get it right, and I think that's because of the long history of being alone in the presence of others- and living sparsely. I don't feel that my world is quite good enough or interesting enough to make others happy, the way it makes me happy. It carries over to the accommodations I choose, the activities I plan, everything. I end up feeling I've disappointed people or missed the mark. It's a deep feeling of inadequacy. So I definitely am a better passenger to my partner who is gifted at creating experiences for us. tnr9 I see you've posted but haven't had time to read and I am off to my day but I will return. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2021 15:54:31 GMT
Maintaining a positive self image for me never included thinking I was good at relationships. There's just a general sense of confusion and "I don't know how to do this" along side a recognition that a clingy partner's behavior is definitely something they don't want to experience. That's probably why DA discount the importance of relationship. There are many other areas of life that have meaning, where DA may do very well and feel belonging and at home. With an underactive (or completely shut down) attachment system in their nervous system, it's understandable that not being good at relationships might not ding them as much as it dings an AP, who is over reliant and whose attachment system is on overdrive. AP tend to think they are good at relationship when they are not, perhaps by believing that over accommodating makes a good partner. However, there is a lack of empathy and attunement in both AP and DA strategies. DA may compensate for their lack of relationship success with success in other areas. If you think of the original environment that they developed in, this isn't hard to understand, as they were left to find other ways to find comfort and a reason to exist. Also, AP behavior is alienating by any standard, just as DA is, and as we've seen, blaming others is a big part of the AP coping strategy. The point being, a lack of personal responsibly goes both ways because neither was conditioned to believe that they belong, are safe, are valuable, and developed defense mechanisms accordingly. Insecure is insecure. It's really as though both operate with similar shortcomings, the difference being what fears are conscious vs unconscious, and whether the attachment system is overactive or under active. You've written in another post how it's a single belief in an avoidant that is the obstacle to interdependence, and that's inaccurate. There is a whole branch of the nervous system that is responsible for the inability to connect in a healthy way, both in AP and DA, as well as FA. Being with a regulated partner (whose nervous system is regulated and in safe mode) is a very healing experience indeed. In my case, I have needed to reform habits and relax into a new way of living with a partner who is consistent and truly available. We both have healthy independence inside the relationship, and so if we are engaged in our own pursuits there is no jealousy or destabilizing behavior. We have had to learn how to communicate around our differences, as any couple does. It's a mutual effort, made possible by the fact we aren't constantly feeling dismayed by the behavior of the other. I am attracted rather than repelled by a more secure partner. He enjoys my traits, finds me unique and attractive for some of the things inherent in a DA profile that make me independent but not unavailable. He sees strength there. When you become healthier things don't appear so black and white, and there are upsides to different qualities the types express. I am going to chime in here because I believe, depending on childhood wounding, an AP or AP leaning attachment can either blame others or blame self….I fall into the second category….I have always blamed myself for the issues in a relationship. I don’t think I am a special snowflake…but I think we tend to get a higher concentration of those who blame their partner here. It was not ok to blame my parents so I took all the blame onto myself and that has continued into all my adult relationships and I am still working on that boundary today. Also….just to expand on why those with AP or AP leaning attachment believe we are better partners is this “other” consideration…..I am not saying that we are truly other focused…it is more “what do I perceive you need via my own fear, which leads to assumptions versus a real desire to know your needs”. What it looks like to an AP is that an avoidant is focused primarily on self protection….thus pulling away when an AP feels a need to get closer. In this dance neither partner is able to really be a good partner, but it requires an awareness and healing of past tapes and a true awareness of me, you, us in relationship. Agreed, and anne12 posts refer to two types of anxious/ambivalent attachment... the sad type vs the angry type. |
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Post by virusbkk on Sept 13, 2021 2:43:37 GMT
"There's nothing wrong with me, what is there to fix? He/she had xyz flaws, it wouldn't have worked out anyways" - DA I disagree with this. I know plenty of avoidants who, even when unaware, definitely think there's plenty wrong with themselves. But they don't know what it is. Once they feel threatened, whether by intimacy or by boundary issues, they do find flaws as a distancing and deactivating mechanism. That doesn't mean they'll fix it for a relationship, though, especially if unaware, so in that sense there's nothing "wrong" to fix if someone else is trying to change them. Like anyone else, they'll work on themselves for themselves if they really want to. Or they won't if they don't really want to. OP, a secure partner won't trigger an insecure partner as much as an insecure partner triggers another insecure partner. So if the avoidant is aware and is self-motivated to become more secure, with a secure partner they'll have the space to do it with more safety / stability provided, better consistency and communication from the secure partner, and fewer layers of triggering (they only have to deal with them triggering themselves as opposed to dealing with their own insecure triggers and their insecure partner's attachment issues). Since @introvert is an avoidant working through it, she's giving a good perspective. What you failed to point out is that a DA will ALWAYS end up feeling threatened/triggered in a romantic relationship..sooner or later. A DA will ALWAYS deactivate, at least once - it is not a question of if, but when. And when this happens, a DA will start to nitpick and find flaws in their current partner as a justification to leave the relationship, which is at the core of their deactivating strategy. The second core part of a DA's deactivating strategy is the phantom-ex, which again, is a subconscious mechanism to lower the value of their current partner. This is all to say: A DA will ALWAYS get triggered in a relationship - sooner or later, as he/she starts to let their partner in When this happens, most DA's will subconsciously and consciously look outward in finding justifications to end a budding relationship or reasons to leave. Since (from a DA's perspective) their partner is unable to measure up to their (ever-increasing & unsustainable) list of requirements, the fault must lie with THEM (reinforced by a DA's positive self-image) How do I know this? Because I have been the DA in a lot of my past relationships (which were mostly with AP's) |
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 13, 2021 3:24:57 GMT
I disagree with this. I know plenty of avoidants who, even when unaware, definitely think there's plenty wrong with themselves. But they don't know what it is. Once they feel threatened, whether by intimacy or by boundary issues, they do find flaws as a distancing and deactivating mechanism. That doesn't mean they'll fix it for a relationship, though, especially if unaware, so in that sense there's nothing "wrong" to fix if someone else is trying to change them. Like anyone else, they'll work on themselves for themselves if they really want to. Or they won't if they don't really want to. OP, a secure partner won't trigger an insecure partner as much as an insecure partner triggers another insecure partner. So if the avoidant is aware and is self-motivated to become more secure, with a secure partner they'll have the space to do it with more safety / stability provided, better consistency and communication from the secure partner, and fewer layers of triggering (they only have to deal with them triggering themselves as opposed to dealing with their own insecure triggers and their insecure partner's attachment issues). Since @introvert is an avoidant working through it, she's giving a good perspective. What you failed to point out is that a DA will ALWAYS end up feeling threatened/triggered in a romantic relationship..sooner or later. A DA will ALWAYS deactivate, at least once - it is not a question of if, but when. And when this happens, a DA will start to nitpick and find flaws in their current partner as a justification to leave the relationship, which is at the core of their deactivating strategy. The second core part of a DA's deactivating strategy is the phantom-ex, which again, is a subconscious mechanism to lower the value of their current partner. This is all to say: Most (if not all) DA's will subconsciously and consciously look outward in finding justifications to end a budding relationship or reasons to leave. Since (in a DA's mind) the partner is not able to measure up to their (ever-increasing & unsustainable) list of requirements, the fault must lie with THEM (reinforced by a DA's positive self-image) How do I know this? Because I have been the DA in a lot of my past relationships (which were mostly with AP's) I am FA and I would never in a million years assume that the way I act out my avoidant tendencies applies to everyone who is FA or has any avoidant tendencies. When I feel my avoidant tendencies…I am not nick picking…I am thinking….this person wants something from me that I can’t give them or this person doesn’t know me and yet, that person is making assumptions about me that are flattering but do not represent the whole picture of who I am. I can’t speak for the phantom ex part because I don’t tend to compare when in my avoidant state…I just know that I feel unseen for who I truly am and as such, I tend to put up walls and moats. |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 13, 2021 3:25:29 GMT
virusbkk, unaware DA, yes. Aware, maybe not, depending on how much work they're doing and where they are in the process. They'll do minor deactivations but not shut down the relationship. I've dated many, many avoidants... most of whom deactivated. But I'm friends with DAs of both genders who eventually earned secure and dealt with their issues to not get stuck in the endless deactivation cycle.
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Post by virusbkk on Sept 13, 2021 3:38:27 GMT
virusbkk , unaware DA, yes. Aware, maybe not, depending on how much work they're doing and where they are in the process. They'll do minor deactivations but not shut down the relationship. I've dated many, many avoidants... most of whom deactivated. But I'm friends with DAs of both genders who eventually earned secure and dealt with their issues to not get stuck in the endless deactivation cycle. I am the only aware DA that I am aware of amongst all my DA acquaintances  The very fact that most of the people discussing DA's on here are not DA's themselves, is proof of that. |
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 13, 2021 4:16:16 GMT
virusbkk , unaware DA, yes. Aware, maybe not, depending on how much work they're doing and where they are in the process. They'll do minor deactivations but not shut down the relationship. I've dated many, many avoidants... most of whom deactivated. But I'm friends with DAs of both genders who eventually earned secure and dealt with their issues to not get stuck in the endless deactivation cycle. I am the only aware DA that I am aware of amongst all my DA acquaintances The very fact that most of the people discussing DA's on here are not DA's themselves, is proof of that. We have had DAs on these forums….I think the reason why most leave is that they get tired of the DA “bashing”. In fact, the reason we have support forums is because a group of DAs who were here wanted a place to discuss their healing amongst each other and without a myriad of questions. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 5:07:39 GMT
I disagree with this. I know plenty of avoidants who, even when unaware, definitely think there's plenty wrong with themselves. But they don't know what it is. Once they feel threatened, whether by intimacy or by boundary issues, they do find flaws as a distancing and deactivating mechanism. That doesn't mean they'll fix it for a relationship, though, especially if unaware, so in that sense there's nothing "wrong" to fix if someone else is trying to change them. Like anyone else, they'll work on themselves for themselves if they really want to. Or they won't if they don't really want to. OP, a secure partner won't trigger an insecure partner as much as an insecure partner triggers another insecure partner. So if the avoidant is aware and is self-motivated to become more secure, with a secure partner they'll have the space to do it with more safety / stability provided, better consistency and communication from the secure partner, and fewer layers of triggering (they only have to deal with them triggering themselves as opposed to dealing with their own insecure triggers and their insecure partner's attachment issues). Since @introvert is an avoidant working through it, she's giving a good perspective. What you failed to point out is that a DA will ALWAYS end up feeling threatened/triggered in a romantic relationship..sooner or later. A DA will ALWAYS deactivate, at least once - it is not a question of if, but when. And when this happens, a DA will start to nitpick and find flaws in their current partner as a justification to leave the relationship, which is at the core of their deactivating strategy. The second core part of a DA's deactivating strategy is the phantom-ex, which again, is a subconscious mechanism to lower the value of their current partner. This is all to say: A DA will ALWAYS get triggered in a relationship - sooner or later, as he/she starts to let their partner in When this happens, most DA's will subconsciously and consciously look outward in finding justifications to end a budding relationship or reasons to leave. Since (from a DA's perspective) their partner is unable to measure up to their (ever-increasing & unsustainable) list of requirements, the fault must lie with THEM (reinforced by a DA's positive self-image) How do I know this? Because I have been the DA in a lot of my past relationships (which were mostly with AP's) You came here a couple of weeks ago seeking to understand the female avoidant mind. You outlined a brief, intense relationship that ended after a 3 day trip. You mentioned that she raised a concern about sex with you being unpredictable, and that something didn't feel right, and if not resolved, it would become an issue in the relationship. You mentioned that you had experienced performance anxiety a few times. She became distant after the trip, and when you sensed something was amiss she said that she didn't feel good about things after the trip. Now, from what I read, she clearly communicated a specific issue, namely sex. That's a big issue in relationships. Especially trying to establish a new relationship and there are sexual issues. However later in your posts, you said that she switched out of the blue, and hadn't named any specific issues. So, I am left wondering if the tone of your posts is a result of you justifying her sudden loss of interest as deactivation, when in fact it truly may have been that she didn't feel comfortable with the sexual aspect of your relationship. Like, somehow that protects you from something you may feel insecure about, yourself? You were wondering if she had an avoidant freak out, or if she just wasn't that into you. But she told you exactly what was bothering her, and a few days later she decided that she wasn't passionate enough about you. It was only six weeks in. Six weeks. So it looks like during the "testing compatibility" phase, she found incompatibility. Responses from others in that thread, and your own take, viewed her as blindsiding you and deactivating for some unknown reason... you speculated that it was fear of engulfment or things getting too serious, even saying that "no specific needs or concerns were communicated, I presumed things were fine and then boom- switch flipped over night." I feel like you're missing something here. I also question how you can come here two weeks ago seeking to understand a female avoidant's mind, and then state so adamantly here what every DA does, will do, you are so sure that you understand it all completely. You have even changed your style from Secure with shades of DA, to now, just DA. It just seems like you are reacting to being broken up with by rationalizing it all as a deactivation, when it may have been sexual incompatibility, like she explicitly expressed concern about. Is it possible you are avoiding things going on with you by just chalking it up to this woman dumping you because she's avoidant? Again, just asking because of the unempathetic, somewhat bitter sound of your posts since that breakup recently. I also am starting to think that people here respond by rote, and miss important things for the whole "yep, that's an avoidant!" narrative. Sometimes people just don't click. Just my thoughts. |
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Post by virusbkk on Sept 13, 2021 8:53:24 GMT
What you failed to point out is that a DA will ALWAYS end up feeling threatened/triggered in a romantic relationship..sooner or later. A DA will ALWAYS deactivate, at least once - it is not a question of if, but when. And when this happens, a DA will start to nitpick and find flaws in their current partner as a justification to leave the relationship, which is at the core of their deactivating strategy. The second core part of a DA's deactivating strategy is the phantom-ex, which again, is a subconscious mechanism to lower the value of their current partner. This is all to say: A DA will ALWAYS get triggered in a relationship - sooner or later, as he/she starts to let their partner in When this happens, most DA's will subconsciously and consciously look outward in finding justifications to end a budding relationship or reasons to leave. Since (from a DA's perspective) their partner is unable to measure up to their (ever-increasing & unsustainable) list of requirements, the fault must lie with THEM (reinforced by a DA's positive self-image) How do I know this? Because I have been the DA in a lot of my past relationships (which were mostly with AP's) You came here a couple of weeks ago seeking to understand the female avoidant mind. You outlined a brief, intense relationship that ended after a 3 day trip. You mentioned that she raised a concern about sex with you being unpredictable, and that something didn't feel right, and if not resolved, it would become an issue in the relationship. You mentioned that you had experienced performance anxiety a few times. She became distant after the trip, and when you sensed something was amiss she said that she didn't feel good about things after the trip. Now, from what I read, she clearly communicated a specific issue, namely sex. That's a big issue in relationships. Especially trying to establish a new relationship and there are sexual issues. However later in your posts, you said that she switched out of the blue, and hadn't named any specific issues. So, I am left wondering if the tone of your posts is a result of you justifying her sudden loss of interest as deactivation, when in fact it truly may have been that she didn't feel comfortable with the sexual aspect of your relationship. Like, somehow that protects you from something you may feel insecure about, yourself? You were wondering if she had an avoidant freak out, or if she just wasn't that into you. But she told you exactly what was bothering her, and a few days later she decided that she wasn't passionate enough about you. It was only six weeks in. Six weeks. So it looks like during the "testing compatibility" phase, she found incompatibility. Responses from others in that thread, and your own take, viewed her as blindsiding you and deactivating for some unknown reason... you speculated that it was fear of engulfment or things getting too serious, even saying that "no specific needs or concerns were communicated, I presumed things were fine and then boom- switch flipped over night." I feel like you're missing something here. I also question how you can come here two weeks ago seeking to understand a female avoidant's mind, and then state so adamantly here what every DA does, will do, you are so sure that you understand it all completely. You have even changed your style from Secure with shades of DA, to now, just DA. It just seems like you are reacting to being broken up with by rationalizing it all as a deactivation, when it may have been sexual incompatibility, like she explicitly expressed concern about. Is it possible you are avoiding things going on with you by just chalking it up to this woman dumping you because she's avoidant? Again, just asking because of the unempathetic, somewhat bitter sound of your posts since that breakup recently. I also am starting to think that people here respond by rote, and miss important things for the whole "yep, that's an avoidant!" narrative. Sometimes people just don't click. Just my thoughts. It's interesting that you choose to go to such granular depths, referencing very specific sections of my previous post(s) to psychoanalyse me, but I'll bite. You didn't make much of an effort to really understand what I was trying to get at, which is: Sometimes, good sex and sexual dysfunction go hand-in-hand. At the end of our 4 romps from the very night before, she said - "Wow". And the very next day, on the first night of the trip she mentions sex as an issue - I was like "huh?!" For the sake of argument, let us assume that she was DA (which is likely, based on the characteristics she exhibited & what I now know about (male) DA behavior, including my own) This is to say that, assuming sex had been a non-issue, there would likely have been something else that would have been picked up upon as an incompatibility. There will always be something that won't "click" or "feel right" for a DA when they have chosen to check out. Another frequent play on this is not being "as emotionally invested as they should". I say this based on what I did in the past & feedback from other (male) DA acquaintances/friends who ended relationships, for precisely one of these reasons. When I probed them for more details, they cited some (usually petty) flaws, that could have been easily fixed with some communication. "She chews with her mouth open, she snores" "She talks on the phone for too long and it gets annoying really fast" "She drags her feet while walking" DA's are quite skilled at honing in on potential flaws in their partner. Although, the setting up of pulling the ripcord happens in the build-up the actual deactivation. When I look back at some of my previous relationships, I followed similar patterns, especially around the 1.5 - 2 month mark. Statistically speaking, it is around this period that a DA is most likely to deactivate/flee for xyz reasons, because it is a critical inflection point in the progression of a relationship. I recall dating this wonderful gal who was really into me and I really liked her as well - great sexual compatibility, lots of common interests, and I genuinely enjoyed spending time with her. After 3 weeks she said she was starting to fall in love, and this really triggered me. Instead of communicating, I panicked, eventually deactivated & broke up with her 4 weeks later. What had got me really worked up was the fact that she would play music on her phone while showering, and also that she'd always want to take a lot of selfies while we were together. Petty isn't it? But these two things became the focal point of what I considered a huge compatibility with a perfectly suitable long-term partner, and I self-sabotaged my way out of there. Which finally brings me to address the reason I believe you've got your panties in a twist. You have elected to interpret everything I have said about DA's in a literal sense and that it applies to all DA's, including female DA's. I don't have have specific knowledge about female DA's, which is precisely what brought me here. Each individual is unique, but there are certain commonalities that every person of each attachment style will exhibit (regardless of gender) - it is precisely why we group them into the different attachment styles, right? Lumping people that share certain common attributes together into groups and then extrapolating that to cover rest of the respective populations, using terms such as "most", "almost all" is conducive to understanding these groups better, not detrimental. I don't speak on behalf of all DA's, but I'm pretty darn sure I share a lot of behavioural traits with a lot of them. I imagine it is the same with you and the rest of the population who identify as FA. So what is the fuss all about? |
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whether or not a person can act more secure in order to change their unaware avoidant partner, definitely not.
