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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 10:37:53 GMT
virusbkk , you misunderstand, I don't have my panties in a twist. I made an observation about the tone of your posts and it didn't make sense to me, conclusions drawn in your first thread here. Ive asked you about it, you've replied. Fair enough. There are many instances of disagreement as discussions unfold, as you know, and many challenges to perspectives occur regularly here. It's part of the discussion, and I recall you disagreeing heartily with some perspectives yourself. There is no fuss, simply curiosity about what you've shared. For what it's worth, as a woman I could see why she might complain about the unpredictability of sex. All other things aside, that is something that can make or break a dating situation. Sexual dysfunction can be the result of many different things and may not have an easy fix. She felt something wasn't right between you. Sometimes partners of people experiencing dysfunction experience that and it's a lot for the "getting to know you" phase which in yoir case was very precipitous in the first place. I've known women who called it off when that issue presented because it was a loaded complication for a new relationship. So all I'm saying is that she did communicate, and maybe it's valid no matter what your other opinions are about her. I don't identify as FA, if that's what you are implying there at the end. Clearly, we disagree on some things and I am comfortable with that. Best of luck!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2021 16:04:39 GMT
I have time today to come back to this to explain my thoughts as a woman on the issue of sexual dysfunction, and the role sex plays in a secure vs insecure relationship. This is something that I've learned in my process of becoming secure, and so although it a tangent I believe it belongs on the thread , dismissives becoming secure with a secure person.
I want to express some things that may be helpful, also to clarify that I do not wish to inflict shame on anyone who experiences sexual dysfunction. It is an issue that impacts the one who suffers and their partner, and this is at least a partial explanation of the female partner's potential responses.
First, studies show that in couples who experience ED, 42% of the partners blamed themselves and felt insecurity about their own desirability. Even a hot woman can feel undesirable if healthy signs of arousal are not present. So, if the woman is insecure as suspected here, it's quite likely that she internally questioned herself.
Second, consistency is important in developing intimacy. So two weeks of not being able to have sex followed by an intense make up session involving sex four times in a day, may be destabilizing to someone who needs a more even keel. A practical consideration, even, is vaginal health and the impact of marathon sex on delicate tissues and pH balance. Over doing it is a thing. It hurts sometimes the next day and carries the risk of UTI. So any female can tell you, it's fun at the time but often there is a price to pay.
Third, a woman has a cycle of seasons based on menstruation, her fertility cycle. During a month she goes through four distinct phases in which her libido is higher or lower, her mood lighter or darker, depending on what is happening with her hormones. Thus, a woman has a need for a partner to be able to fit into that cycle, ans meet her sexually where she is at, taking her cycle into consideration. Any disruption in the male that prevents him from being what she needs, when she needs it, makes it difficult for her to feel fully feminine. If she is in her 30's or beyond she may be aware of this sexual cycle and be in tune with it, and destabilized if it is not something she feels is possible with a new mate.
None of this is to say that the male's needs and moods aren't important and worthy of consideration. This is just a female perspective. And, it is not complete but only based on things I've learned.
Finally, in a feminine/masculine pairing, penetration is a part of the feminine / masculine dance. It's got meaning, and while compensation in another area of sexuality is excellent, inability or inconsistency in this part of sexuality can be frustrating for both partners.
So, while couples can and do work through this, my thought is that the odds of overcoming insecurity in both partners around sex is something more likely to occur successfully in an established relationship where trust and intimacy have a good foundation. If she said it was an issue, it likely was a very big one, given that it's difficult to be candid sometimes about such a sensitive topic.
My take is that resolving performance anxiety is probably deep work to be done individually, and with a partner with whom healthy trust has been established. Since this relationship was very very precipitous, I don't believe it had the secure foundation needed to embark on a couples journey of healing sexual issues.
Any partner experiencing sexual dysfunction would benefit from a more secure partner, it goes without saying.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2021 16:12:36 GMT
And also wanted to add, for a woman this can seem insurmountable for all the reasons above, and because none of it is in her control at all. she may try to help. and in trying to help a man obtain an erection and failing, feel inadequate or frustrated without any way to improve the situation.
Of course there are women who would/could respond differently. But it depends on the woman and where she is at.
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Post by virusbkk on Sept 15, 2021 6:30:00 GMT
I have time today to come back to this to explain my thoughts as a woman on the issue of sexual dysfunction, and the role sex plays in a secure vs insecure relationship. This is something that I've learned in my process of becoming secure, and so although it a tangent I believe it belongs on the thread , dismissives becoming secure with a secure person. I want to express some things that may be helpful, also to clarify that I do not wish to inflict shame on anyone who experiences sexual dysfunction. It is an issue that impacts the one who suffers and their partner, and this is at least a partial explanation of the female partner's potential responses. First, studies show that in couples who experience ED, 42% of the partners blamed themselves and felt insecurity about their own desirability. Even a hot woman can feel undesirable if healthy signs of arousal are not present. So, if the woman is insecure as suspected here, it's quite likely that she internally questioned herself. Second, consistency is important in developing intimacy. So two weeks of not being able to have sex followed by an intense make up session involving sex four times in a day, may be destabilizing to someone who needs a more even keel. A practical consideration, even, is vaginal health and the impact of marathon sex on delicate tissues and pH balance. Over doing it is a thing. It hurts sometimes the next day and carries the risk of UTI. So any female can tell you, it's fun at the time but often there is a price to pay. Third, a woman has a cycle of seasons based on menstruation, her fertility cycle. During a month she goes through four distinct phases in which her libido is higher or lower, her mood lighter or darker, depending on what is happening with her hormones. Thus, a woman has a need for a partner to be able to fit into that cycle, ans meet her sexually where she is at, taking her cycle into consideration. Any disruption in the male that prevents him from being what she needs, when she needs it, makes it difficult for her to feel fully feminine. If she is in her 30's or beyond she may be aware of this sexual cycle and be in tune with it, and destabilized if it is not something she feels is possible with a new mate. None of this is to say that the male's needs and moods aren't important and worthy of consideration. This is just a female perspective. And, it is not complete but only based on things I've learned. Finally, in a feminine/masculine pairing, penetration is a part of the feminine / masculine dance. It's got meaning, and while compensation in another area of sexuality is excellent, inability or inconsistency in this part of sexuality can be frustrating for both partners. So, while couples can and do work through this, my thought is that the odds of overcoming insecurity in both partners around sex is something more likely to occur successfully in an established relationship where trust and intimacy have a good foundation. If she said it was an issue, it likely was a very big one, given that it's difficult to be candid sometimes about such a sensitive topic. My take is that resolving performance anxiety is probably deep work to be done individually, and with a partner with whom healthy trust has been established. Since this relationship was very very precipitous, I don't believe it had the secure foundation needed to embark on a couples journey of healing sexual issues. Any partner experiencing sexual dysfunction would benefit from a more secure partner, it goes without saying. Excellent and enlightening feedback. I recall reading a recent article about being wary of reaching certain milestones too soon, that happens when a relationship moves very, very quickly, which is highly likely when pairing with an avoidant / insecure partner. And that is pretty much exactly what happened in my case: 1) Spending time in each other's homes - Check [within < 2 weeks of dating] 2) Having sex (not only that, but without protection) - Check [within < 3 weeks of dating] 3) Making future plans [planned weekend getaway] - Check [within < 3 weeks of dating] 4) Meeting friends & family - No |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2021 13:18:56 GMT
virusbkk I agree this relationship was WAY too fast, and that alone is an indicator of dysfunction. My point in this is that it wasn't at all something stable until a sudden inexplicable deactivation on her part ended it. It seems driven by insecurity from day 1. My relationships in the past were all quick as well, driven by the man and I allowed myself to be a passenger because I had NO CLUE about what is normal, healthy, a real relationship. It's stunning to look back and see how blind I was, how naive and how dysfunctionally wired so to speak. My current relationship moved at a slower, more measured pace. I am primarily DA/secure he is a mix of AP/secure. We both have some FA traits as well and both have reason for that in our histories so it makes sense. I would say that secure relating is our mainstay with insecurities in the mix and we are constantly evolving. This is the first relationship I've had where a man expressed a desire to protect the growing dating relationship by delaying sex a little, to not jump in. This is also the first relationship I've had where I've actually been courted. Covid impacted the timeline because everything was shut down so we did spend time in each other's homes, after we had introduced sex. Our first trip together was planned at six months, I don't know where that falls on a healthy timeline. Again, Covid delayed that but you get the gist. As a DA female, I think I am more likely to ride as a passenger in relationship, whereas it seems that a DA male might stubbornly stall the relationship. I have tended to ride along and then retreat into myself as things heat up, and then the push pull begins between two unhealthy partners. Looking back at past relationships it's clear both of us were in no way healthy or able to conduct a reasonable relationship. So, that's my input as an avoidant female. I'd encourage you in any case to keep turning attention toward your insecure traits, and hope that you also can get whatever support you need around sexual dysfunction, so that you can enjoy a relationship in the future that is genuinely enhancing to you on all levels. Even DA have a mix of anxious, disorganized, and secure coping mechanisms, it's not black and white. Opening myself to considering all of the insecure types within myself leads to my growth and increased ability to empathize with others. I'm a far way from perfect but I'm changing long held patterns and unpacking things here has been very helpful.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 15, 2021 14:19:06 GMT
I have time today to come back to this to explain my thoughts as a woman on the issue of sexual dysfunction, and the role sex plays in a secure vs insecure relationship. This is something that I've learned in my process of becoming secure, and so although it a tangent I believe it belongs on the thread , dismissives becoming secure with a secure person. I want to express some things that may be helpful, also to clarify that I do not wish to inflict shame on anyone who experiences sexual dysfunction. It is an issue that impacts the one who suffers and their partner, and this is at least a partial explanation of the female partner's potential responses. First, studies show that in couples who experience ED, 42% of the partners blamed themselves and felt insecurity about their own desirability. Even a hot woman can feel undesirable if healthy signs of arousal are not present. So, if the woman is insecure as suspected here, it's quite likely that she internally questioned herself. Second, consistency is important in developing intimacy. So two weeks of not being able to have sex followed by an intense make up session involving sex four times in a day, may be destabilizing to someone who needs a more even keel. A practical consideration, even, is vaginal health and the impact of marathon sex on delicate tissues and pH balance. Over doing it is a thing. It hurts sometimes the next day and carries the risk of UTI. So any female can tell you, it's fun at the time but often there is a price to pay. Third, a woman has a cycle of seasons based on menstruation, her fertility cycle. During a month she goes through four distinct phases in which her libido is higher or lower, her mood lighter or darker, depending on what is happening with her hormones. Thus, a woman has a need for a partner to be able to fit into that cycle, ans meet her sexually where she is at, taking her cycle into consideration. Any disruption in the male that prevents him from being what she needs, when she needs it, makes it difficult for her to feel fully feminine. If she is in her 30's or beyond she may be aware of this sexual cycle and be in tune with it, and destabilized if it is not something she feels is possible with a new mate. None of this is to say that the male's needs and moods aren't important and worthy of consideration. This is just a female perspective. And, it is not complete but only based on things I've learned. Finally, in a feminine/masculine pairing, penetration is a part of the feminine / masculine dance. It's got meaning, and while compensation in another area of sexuality is excellent, inability or inconsistency in this part of sexuality can be frustrating for both partners. So, while couples can and do work through this, my thought is that the odds of overcoming insecurity in both partners around sex is something more likely to occur successfully in an established relationship where trust and intimacy have a good foundation. If she said it was an issue, it likely was a very big one, given that it's difficult to be candid sometimes about such a sensitive topic. My take is that resolving performance anxiety is probably deep work to be done individually, and with a partner with whom healthy trust has been established. Since this relationship was very very precipitous, I don't believe it had the secure foundation needed to embark on a couples journey of healing sexual issues. Any partner experiencing sexual dysfunction would benefit from a more secure partner, it goes without saying. Excellent and enlightening feedback. I recall reading a recent article about being wary of reaching certain milestones too soon, that happens when a relationship moves very, very quickly, which is highly likely when pairing with an avoidant / insecure partner. And that is pretty much exactly what happened in my case: 1) Spending time in each other's homes - Check [within < 2 weeks of dating] 2) Having sex (not only that, but without protection) - Check [within < 3 weeks of dating] 3) Making future plans [planned weekend getaway] - Check [within < 3 weeks of dating] 4) Meeting friends & family - No Honestly…the whole rushing a relationship forward was something I did as an AP leaning FA…it was to secure my desired partner. In my last relationship…we did move forward rather quickly with the physically stuff…but I did not meet his parents for 3 months. I think the point is rushing a relationship along isn’t necessarily a DA or avoidant trait…AP leaning individuals do it too. |
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Post by virusbkk on Sept 15, 2021 14:37:53 GMT
virusbkk I agree this relationship was WAY too fast, and that alone is an indicator of dysfunction. My point in this is that it wasn't at all something stable until a sudden inexplicable deactivation on her part ended it. It seems driven by insecurity from day 1. My relationships in the past were all quick as well, driven by the man and I allowed myself to be a passenger because I had NO CLUE about what is normal, healthy, a real relationship. It's stunning to look back and see how blind I was, how naive and how dysfunctionally wired so to speak. My current relationship moved at a slower, more measured pace. I am primarily DA/secure he is a mix of AP/secure. We both have some FA traits as well and both have reason for that in our histories so it makes sense. I would say that secure relating is our mainstay with insecurities in the mix and we are constantly evolving. This is the first relationship I've had where a man expressed a desire to protect the growing dating relationship by delaying sex a little, to not jump in. This is also the first relationship I've had where I've actually been courted. Covid impacted the timeline because everything was shut down so we did spend time in each other's homes, after we had introduced sex. Our first trip together was planned at six months, I don't know where that falls on a healthy timeline. Again, Covid delayed that but you get the gist. As a DA female, I think I am more likely to ride as a passenger in relationship, whereas it seems that a DA male might stubbornly stall the relationship. I have tended to ride along and then retreat into myself as things heat up, and then the push pull begins between two unhealthy partners. Looking back at past relationships it's clear both of us were in no way healthy or able to conduct a reasonable relationship. So, that's my input as an avoidant female. I'd encourage you in any case to keep turning attention toward your insecure traits, and hope that you also can get whatever support you need around sexual dysfunction, so that you can enjoy a relationship in the future that is genuinely enhancing to you on all levels. Even DA have a mix of anxious, disorganized, and secure coping mechanisms, it's not black and white. Opening myself to considering all of the insecure types within myself leads to my growth and increased ability to empathize with others. I'm a far way from perfect but I'm changing long held patterns and unpacking things here has been very helpful. To be honest, that was the first time I experienced sexual dysfunction out of ALL of my previous partners. I discussed this with a friend, and he gave a plausible explanation that it was probably because I became heavily limerent for this DA woman. I wanted her to reciprocate my intense desire for her so badly, that I got inside my own head. I briefly hooked up with another gal last month and there were no problems with her at all. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2021 14:58:07 GMT
virusbkk I agree this relationship was WAY too fast, and that alone is an indicator of dysfunction. My point in this is that it wasn't at all something stable until a sudden inexplicable deactivation on her part ended it. It seems driven by insecurity from day 1. My relationships in the past were all quick as well, driven by the man and I allowed myself to be a passenger because I had NO CLUE about what is normal, healthy, a real relationship. It's stunning to look back and see how blind I was, how naive and how dysfunctionally wired so to speak. My current relationship moved at a slower, more measured pace. I am primarily DA/secure he is a mix of AP/secure. We both have some FA traits as well and both have reason for that in our histories so it makes sense. I would say that secure relating is our mainstay with insecurities in the mix and we are constantly evolving. This is the first relationship I've had where a man expressed a desire to protect the growing dating relationship by delaying sex a little, to not jump in. This is also the first relationship I've had where I've actually been courted. Covid impacted the timeline because everything was shut down so we did spend time in each other's homes, after we had introduced sex. Our first trip together was planned at six months, I don't know where that falls on a healthy timeline. Again, Covid delayed that but you get the gist. As a DA female, I think I am more likely to ride as a passenger in relationship, whereas it seems that a DA male might stubbornly stall the relationship. I have tended to ride along and then retreat into myself as things heat up, and then the push pull begins between two unhealthy partners. Looking back at past relationships it's clear both of us were in no way healthy or able to conduct a reasonable relationship. So, that's my input as an avoidant female. I'd encourage you in any case to keep turning attention toward your insecure traits, and hope that you also can get whatever support you need around sexual dysfunction, so that you can enjoy a relationship in the future that is genuinely enhancing to you on all levels. Even DA have a mix of anxious, disorganized, and secure coping mechanisms, it's not black and white. Opening myself to considering all of the insecure types within myself leads to my growth and increased ability to empathize with others. I'm a far way from perfect but I'm changing long held patterns and unpacking things here has been very helpful. To be honest, that was the first time I experienced sexual dysfunction out of ALL of my previous partners. I discussed this with a friend, and he gave a plausible explanation that it was probably because I became heavily limerent for this DA woman. I wanted her to reciprocate the same intense desire for me that I had for her so badly, that I got inside my own head. I briefly hooked up with another gal last month and there were no problems with her at all. Yeah, the whole thing was driven by insecurity. Although, I think she did great by being candid about where she was at, she communicated her hesitation and ultimately did the right thing to part ways with you. It sounds like she did it in an honest and respectful way, acknowledging that it just wasn't right. As a DA I've experienced limerance, when I was younger and it was with males I didn't have real contact with- truly absent which is the safest for avoidants (actually the "safest" for any of us lol). I think I experienced limerance with the seductive narc I went round with too. But I didn't experience anything like that with my current partner. It all has felt more grounded, conscious, aware. I still have my default avoidants thoughts and physical (physiology) patterns but I'm working with that, write about it here a little. Good luck! And glad for you that you've had a good experience sexually since. |
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Post by virusbkk on Sept 16, 2021 8:39:25 GMT
It seems driven by insecurity from day 1. As a DA female, I think I am more likely to ride as a passenger in relationship, whereas it seems that a DA male might stubbornly stall the relationship. I have tended to ride along and then retreat into myself as things heat up, and then the push pull begins between two unhealthy partners. Looking back at past relationships it's clear both of us were in no way healthy or able to conduct a reasonable relationship. Good luck! Makes sense. Come to think of it, the DA gal asked me twice (on two separate occasions) whether we were moving too fast. The second time was right before I went in for the kill - after a lot of stroking and heavy petting. It is possible that she wasn't used to things being escalated so quickly, but decided to jump onboard anyways. Truth be told, I knew deep down inside that it would be very difficult to transition this into a long-term thing, from the moment she started the conversations/musings about the ex(s). But, I chose to ignore all of that. All-in-all, a valuable learning experience of dating a female DA. I wish you well in all your romantic endeavors too. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 14:11:17 GMT
It seems driven by insecurity from day 1. As a DA female, I think I am more likely to ride as a passenger in relationship, whereas it seems that a DA male might stubbornly stall the relationship. I have tended to ride along and then retreat into myself as things heat up, and then the push pull begins between two unhealthy partners. Looking back at past relationships it's clear both of us were in no way healthy or able to conduct a reasonable relationship. Good luck! Makes sense. Come to think of it, the DA gal asked me twice (on two separate occasions) whether we were moving too fast. The second time was right before I went in for the kill - after a lot of stroking and heavy petting. It is possible that she wasn't used to things being escalated so quickly, but decided to jump onboard anyways. Truth be told, I knew deep down inside that it would be very difficult to transition this into a long-term thing, from the moment she started the conversations/musings about the ex(s). But, I chose to ignore all of that. All-in-all, a valuable learning experience of dating a female DA. I wish you well in all your romantic endeavors too. Have you considered the possibility of having disorganized attachment? A mix of anxious and avoidant? DA can get triggered anxious too- just curious if you have explored all that and found anything familiar? I don't have an phantom ex, but then again I'm in a growing-secure relationship. But talk of an ex more than a casual mention is always a red flag. |
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Post by virusbkk on Sept 17, 2021 1:22:39 GMT
Makes sense. Come to think of it, the DA gal asked me twice (on two separate occasions) whether we were moving too fast. The second time was right before I went in for the kill - after a lot of stroking and heavy petting. It is possible that she wasn't used to things being escalated so quickly, but decided to jump onboard anyways. Truth be told, I knew deep down inside that it would be very difficult to transition this into a long-term thing, from the moment she started the conversations/musings about the ex(s). But, I chose to ignore all of that. All-in-all, a valuable learning experience of dating a female DA. I wish you well in all your romantic endeavors too. Have you considered the possibility of having disorganized attachment? A mix of anxious and avoidant? DA can get triggered anxious too- just curious if you have explored all that and found anything familiar? I don't have an phantom ex, but then again I'm in a growing-secure relationship. But talk of an ex more than a casual mention is always a red flag. Very possible that there were some FA traits. However, the key point is that it's pointless to waste anymore time on rehashing this over and over in my head. Time is the most important commodity of all - that is better spent on self-improvement & finding somebody more compatible and emotionally available. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2021 2:20:19 GMT
Have you considered the possibility of having disorganized attachment? A mix of anxious and avoidant? DA can get triggered anxious too- just curious if you have explored all that and found anything familiar? I don't have an phantom ex, but then again I'm in a growing-secure relationship. But talk of an ex more than a casual mention is always a red flag. Very possible that there were some FA traits. However, the key point is that it's pointless to waste anymore time on rehashing this over and over in my head. Time is the most important commodity of all - that is better spent on self-improvement & finding somebody more compatible and emotionally available. Well, I meant FA for your attachment style because you seem to have elements of both- I wasn't talking about her. For your own growth I had wondered if you considered it. |
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Post by virusbkk on Sept 17, 2021 6:19:49 GMT
Very possible that there were some FA traits. However, the key point is that it's pointless to waste anymore time on rehashing this over and over in my head. Time is the most important commodity of all - that is better spent on self-improvement & finding somebody more compatible and emotionally available. Well, I meant FA for your attachment style because you seem to have elements of both- I wasn't talking about her. For your own growth I had wondered if you considered it. Entirely possible. Attachment styles are fluid, so some FA traits could have been triggered with this DA girl. Thinking back to all my past relationships, the insecure traits were predominantly DA leaning - this is to say I was almost never flip-floppy / hot/cold or off again/on again. The relationships I self-sabotaged were in typical DA fashion - cool and aloof in the beginning, and then when things started to get vulnerable and/or deep, I would get triggered and bolt (even ghosted on one occasion) |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2021 13:03:19 GMT
It's interesting, I think I kept it surface level and didn't even have an awareness of the possibility of going deep with someone (that's in one container for me, or was then- my container) - so I would retreat from the sense of oppression. I had no boundaries to keep oppressors out, and triggered their oppressive qualities anyway. So yeah there is only one thing to do there, and thats get out because no one can actually live like that. Well, people do but I went into a trench until I could crawl out. Except for the narc entanglement, that was a totally different dynamic and I assume it's because he was so self centered he reminded me of my parents who didn't seem to have any idea about me. Weird how it all works. I didn't know about vulnerability until later through various periods of self work and now thats the bigger issue for me, not the oppressive feeling.
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