Here we go again.

Not ignoring the responses. Just a little preoccupied.


In exactly the same fashion as the last time this happened, (the relationship that got me into attachment styles in the 1st place).
I surprisingly got a text from Lady #1 today. Exactly the same time frame as the last relationship too, and almost the same wording.
Just a lack lustre attempt to free themselves of guilt.

"wish you well, had a good time, blah blah."

Basic interpretation...

"I dont want to take any responsibility for treating you like crap and acting selfish so I'm going to completely ignore everything you said and try come across as innocent by wishing you well."

The entire purpose of the message is to absolve herself of guilt with as minimal effort as possible. I feel insulted.

I wasn't suggesting he guess about her intentions. I was saying, maybe if he takes her at face value, that she wanted to wish him well but is done... then is there really anything else to add?

Someone triggered anxious can go on trying to keep the connection going forever. They always have more questions or they didn't feel heard after communicating. There's a point where it's really not about that partner anymore and more talking won't help and won't provide more answers (especially if she's unaware and disconnected from herself anyway). It's about trusting self for the closure.

If krolle has things he wants to get off his chest to say or ask that are directly relevant, and practice listening as annieb suggested and communicating clearly himself, he can. But beyond practicing those skills, I don't think responding will do much more besides leave the door open to keep the conversation and same push-pull dynamic going. And unless she's finished with her deactivating (and even then), I'm not sure if she'll be self-aware enough for the conversation to be productive.

I say all that having been anxious and on the receiving end both of these same behaviors and of these same conversations afterwards. The only one that ever really helped me was a year and a half later, when my FA ex and I were tentatively trying to reconcile and he was far away from our past breakup in his mind and not triggered, so he could give me honest answers that I tried really hard to depersonalize, listen to, and really hear. Having these conversations right after the situation generally made things worse, got me half-answers (or half-@$$ed answers) and gave me more to anxiously ruminate about and cling to for longer. It's not a safe space to practice communication, honestly. Not yet.

Well honestly I'm just confused. I realise secure people know what's going in in their head and communicate it directly. But I find I'm often trying to communicate through people's subconscious because almost everyone I know seems insecure.

Take lady #2 for example and me reading her intention to go around late at night to watch a movie and not realizing it meant a hook up. She explicitly said "I don't want a hook up" And then invited me to bed at 2am and rubbed her behind against me provocatively. My exoerience of communication in life has been one of constant incongruity.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm so confused about people communicating indirectly I have no idea what things mean anymore.

In terms of the verbal content of the message then I would say no. It did not ask for a response.
But I have no idea if she wanted one sunbconsciously.

My honest "guess" annieb that her message was meant as a means for her to absolve guilt is just an opinion. But I can't imagine another reason for it.

In regards to my response then part of me just wants to be heard. For her to understand things from my perspective. It's not necessarily to rekindle anything. But to have her listen.

krolle , one thing that is helpful to practice is taking people at face value. I totally agree with you. Insecure folks will not communicate properly. That doesn't mean you need to play the game with them, because it's a co-dependent one. A step towards freeing yourself from codependence is to hold what they say as a healthy boundary for yourself. If they later complain about something, you can say, I listened when you said X and respected it. Most people don't want to delve into how fickle they are, even if called out, and won't say well you should have KNOWN I really meant Y. At least you're still being healthy, even if they aren't. And if they're insecure, they're unlikely to meet your deeper needs anyway, so it seems like a win-win to me, even though it will feel uncomfortable at first and co-dependent people won't like it and may object to you stepping out of the dance pattern and try to pull you back in, or back away altogether.

Anyway, I understand your confusion, too. You did the right thing with woman #2. Your description of what happened made it sound like she thinks she has to play the demure woman game. That could be messed up views from social pressure, or her being AP or FA. Either way, you practiced taking her at face value, and it sounds like she filtered herself out in turn. This is actually a good thing, even though again, it feels weird and uncomfortable the first times you experience it.

How will you feel if you talk at woman #1? Meaning, you tell her the words you want to say, but she doesn't really hear them or give you any sort of meaningful response or even much directly related dialog exchange. Would that be enough for you to tend to on your own? Is it enough to be heard, even if she doesn't understand what you're saying? (While also knowing that we don't have any skin in the game over here, but we hear you and your feelings and thoughts about this matter?)