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Post by krolle on Dec 26, 2021 16:59:49 GMT
Also do you think it felt "safe" for him to talk about things with you?
I wad very skittish about talking with some of my emotionally volatile exes in an honest and vulnerable way because it didnt feel safe. I felt like if I said something they didnt like it would result in an attack. Sometimes an extremely hostile reaction. After a point you realize its just not worth being emotionally honest. Also remember critisizm is like Kryptonite to Avoidants.
But also some compassion to yourself because it doesnt sound like it was safe for you to express yourself either. For fear of his shut down, dismissal, invalidation etc.
I'm reminded of pia mellody's quote about what intimacy really is. Something along the lines of being able to share your true self with someone and they you in return.
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Post by cherrycola on Dec 26, 2021 23:14:45 GMT
I should imagine theres a lot more going on here than meets the eye. Certainly co-dependance. In terms of you feeling like a bad partner then I would say it was very likely you were both as dysfunctional as each other. I have been in relationships with people with BPD and it took a long time for me to realize I brought my own very unhealthy crap to the relationship. And I blamed them exclusively for the relationship failure for a long time. And my friends also got involved, even though I didnt ask them to. Giving her a hard time. Granted, that was in response to the post break up social media slander campaign she engaged in. But still, not good form. Im not sure why his friend would reach out to you directly unless there is more going on than we know about. Were you aware he didnt have the condom on? Yes, definitely some co-dependence. Being in such an unhealthy relationship before I didn't want to slip into one, but also I knew I couldn't mother him or set boundaries for him, so I tried to stay on my side of the street. I asked him to slow down. I did my own things with friends and kept my own hobbies. He wanted me to join him to every social event he was invited to, sometimes I just said I appreciated the invite but I also wanted him to have his own friends. We were seeing each other 2-4 days a week and said he was lonely when I wasn't around, I felt bad but encouraged him to spend time on his hobbies or his friends. He seemed to have zero boundaries, I would ask him if things were okay or if he had preferences for what to do, or where to go, he would just say "whatever makes you happy" Reflecting back there was definitely some emotional co-dependence coming from me, I am still working on emotional regulation and I kept wanting him to sooth me when we had a fight. I blamed him for my bad feelings after, and was so angry at him. Which I am aware no one can make you feel anything. It was all the stories I was telling myself. His friend seemed to like to meddle in everyone's relationship, she had zero boundaries. She didn't seem to like that I knew what I wanted out of life, and wanted to be married. Because we both wanted a kid D and I had discussed some cursory timelines and said 12-18 months to discuss engagement. She kept saying you can't be sure of anyone and that she didn't believe in marriage. She had commitment issues and treated her bf like crap in front of everyone. Even D commented on it a few times to me. When things ended she made a passive aggressive comments about how it ended so I was wrong. Yes, I was aware he didn't have the condom on. He was dealing with ED from performance anxiety for the first few months we were intimate. We had clearly discussed and agreed on the condom before penetration, so I let him put it on when he was ready because me asking or moving towards it was making his ED worse. We went from naked and making out to him penetrating me. I gave him a minute because I thought maybe he just forgot and he didn't stop. I stopped him and went into freeze. He put one on and we finished and then I drove myself home, it took a few hours for me to wrap my mind around what had just happened. After I brought it up he said "other women have never made me wear a condom", and he "didn't understand" why we couldn't just pull out. He just kept saying he didn't understand and I hadn't clearly explained why I had this boundary (he knew I had been raped before so consent is important to me). But eventually we talked through it, he apologized. Then he asked if he had raped me, and I said I wasn't really sure, because in some places it was rape. But he was obviously sorry and I trusted he wouldn't do it again.
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Post by cherrycola on Dec 26, 2021 23:38:07 GMT
Also do you think it felt "safe" for him to talk about things with you? I wad very skittish about talking with some of my emotionally volatile exes in an honest and vulnerable way because it didnt feel safe. I felt like if I said something they didnt like it would result in an attack. Sometimes an extremely hostile reaction. After a point you realize its just not worth being emotionally honest. Also remember critisizm is like Kryptonite to Avoidants. But also some compassion to yourself because it doesnt sound like it was safe for you to express yourself either. For fear of his shut down, dismissal, invalidation etc. I'm reminded of pia mellody's quote about what intimacy really is. Something along the lines of being able to share your true self with someone and they you in return. I tried to make it "safe" for him to talk to me, at the end though I can definitely see he didn't feel safe, and that I did contribute to that, but I als believe that is not 100% on me. At times I would bring things up because I could tell there was something brewing and sometimes he was relived and would talk, other times he would get defensive and say nothing was wrong. Then later he would come back and say ... "yeah actually". He kept saying he wasn't used to talking about things, and it took him a long time to figure out his feelings. That he has no close friends, and his family don't communicate how I do. He made a point of telling people how I was an amazing communicator. I am hyper aware BPD's being very toxic and I try hard to not be like that anymore. No yelling, no swearing, no threatening to breakup. (I have never self harmed or even desired to) That I need to ask for clarification if someone does thing I perceive as hurtful. I really wished he had asked me what BPD was like for me, I gave him a few opportunities because googling it you can get the worse cases, and he just said he was okay. I am ashamed I did say some pretty mean things a few times like "I am not your mother" or "you are so immature, even children know not to touch others how they don't want to be touched". I remember one fight about the tickling I yelled "BOUNDARIES DO NOT NEED TO BE JUSTIFIED TO BE VALID" every time he tried to open his mouth or argue with me. One time he lost his erection, and said it was my fault because I wasn't flexible enough. It hurt, but I was very supportive about his ED and how hard it must be but he kept saying it wasn't his ED, and it had nothing to do with him. It took him over a week before he apologized.
I am very aware of being very sensitive, so I like to take time to calm down before I approach things. Many times after a little bit I don't even need to bring it up anymore or I just mention it but don't need a giant discussion about it. He didn't like this because then he couldn't remember what happened and he wanted me to bring it up at the moment it happened. Now that I reflect on this, I think this need to "remember what happened" was due to his need to be right. If he couldn't remember in detail what happened then he couldn't prove he was right. He admitted he felt that if he just presented a logical enough argument that people would have to see his side of things. I was definitely critical to an extreme about his defensiveness, I said on more then one occasion I was having a hard time dealing with it. The main thing making me upset wasn't even that he was violating boundaries. People do that by mistake. It was that everytime he did he would get defensive. Then upset that he hurt me and then finally he would apologize. I get that in all partnerships sometimes you have to put your own feelings aside but it very much felt like I was the one who had to keep doing it to repair things. I know I was FAR too demanding of him going to counselling. I was pretty bad about not letting him withdrawal. He was not stonewalling me on purpose, he just didn't know what to do with me crying. I was pretty blind to how I was contributing to his defensiveness and our dynamic. And that the only person I can control is myself. I actually never stopped bringing things up. Having been in a controlling relationship for so long I told myself I would never silence myself again. I also felt very secure that we would always work things out and that conflict isn't unhealthy. It's how you handle it. I think in this situation though that because I wouldn't back down, by the time he swore at me, I was so de-regulated I had no hope in hell of having a productive conversation, and he didn't have the skills or tools to know where to even start. edit: I wished I had provided him more positive reinforcement about the things he was getting right, because when I did he would just light up. I also should have been far more constructive about what I needed and what he could do instead of just focusing on how defensive he was. I have since learned what I need to restore trust and that when he kept saying he was trying to change that it would have been far more constructive to come up with a plan together. But I think no matter what I did, since he can't show up for himself it wouldn't have worked out. We could have ended up married and him extremely resentful of me. My counselor was very concerned that with his history of pushing my boundaries then not accepting responsibility his behavior would have escalated.
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Post by krolle on Dec 27, 2021 5:39:48 GMT
There is a lot of information to process. I get quiet an apprehensive feeling from reading your posts, which do feel very borderline.......very familiar....to me. And as I said I'm sure theres a lot more going on between the lines you can unpack. Hopefully with the help of your therapist.
But try not to beat yourself up too bad. As much as people can be very harsh, it must be hard to be the person with a PD in a relationship. There is no use in playing the blame game. But it was certainly not all your fault. He definately brought his own problems to the relationship. You just did the best you could with the tools you had.
And lots of credit for having insight into whats going in with you and getting help for it. Thats a very admirable first step to getting healthier.
In terms of recounting the specific events then I would urge caution about using those, at least for your own recovery purposes. Of course I dont know you or what you've been through so I wouldnt want to invalidate your experiences. But the 3 people with BPD I have known or dated all shared one common trait. And that was that they could not accurately recall events that happened whilst triggered.
My long term ex for example, after we broke up, absolutely hated me. And I had the chance to talk to her about it and I asked her why she hated me so much, and she said a few things, one of which was "You said you left me because I'm too fat"....Or something along those lines.
I was absolutely shocked. I could tell she wasnt just making it up, she really believed with absolute conviction I had said that to her. Which I categorically never did. I realised after some thought she was likely projecting her own insecurities onto me. And it helped her to demonize me... i.e splitting.
But after the fact,I have realised I was just as "messed up" in my own way and it certainly wasnt all her fault. At the time I thought my Sh*t didnt stink. I now see things a bit more balanced. Your ex almost certainly has a lot to work through himself.
I imagine you're hurting a lot from the break up. So while your still in the heart break phase, try your best to do the things you enjoy. Be with friends, look after your body. Basically as much as you can to make yourself happy as you can be in such difficult circumstances.
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Post by cherrycola on Dec 27, 2021 18:17:54 GMT
There is a lot of information to process. I get quiet an apprehensive feeling from reading your posts, which do feel very borderline.......very familiar....to me. And as I said I'm sure theres a lot more going on between the lines you can unpack. Hopefully with the help of your therapist. But try not to beat yourself up too bad. As much as people can be very harsh, it must be hard to be the person with a PD in a relationship. There is no use in playing the blame game. But it was certainly not all your fault. He definately brought his own problems to the relationship. You just did the best you could with the tools you had. And lots of credit for having insight into whats going in with you and getting help for it. Thats a very admirable first step to getting healthier. In terms of recounting the specific events then I would urge caution about using those, at least for your own recovery purposes. Of course I dont know you or what you've been through so I wouldnt want to invalidate your experiences. But the 3 people with BPD I have known or dated all shared one common trait. And that was that they could not accurately recall events that happened whilst triggered. My long term ex for example, after we broke up, absolutely hated me. And I had the chance to talk to her about it and I asked her why she hated me so much, and she said a few things, one of which was "You said you left me because I'm too fat"....Or something along those lines. I was absolutely shocked. I could tell she wasnt just making it up, she really believed with absolute conviction I had said that to her. Which I categorically never did. I realised after some thought she was likely projecting her own insecurities onto me. And it helped her to demonize me... i.e splitting. But after the fact,I have realised I was just as "messed up" in my own way and it certainly wasnt all her fault. At the time I thought my Sh*t didnt stink. I now see things a bit more balanced. Your ex almost certainly has a lot to work through himself. I imagine you're hurting a lot from the break up. So while your still in the heart break phase, try your best to do the things you enjoy. Be with friends, look after your body. Basically as much as you can to make yourself happy as you can be in such difficult circumstances. Thank you for the insight. I agree I have a writing style that conveys a certain energy. It's something I've pondered quite a bit. I'm sorry if reading my post brought up negative feelings about dealing with BPD in the past. I have a heard time with the BPD label. I have had two friends with BPD and their behavior was on the extreme end so I get a bit defensive. I don't want to be judged by it. I try so hard, so from my point of view, I don't do the crazy things BPD is known for. It also ties into my core wound of I'm broken beyond repair. Having a PD is for life. Remembering things differently isn't necessarily a BPD thing. It's about the feelings and meaning someone has attached to an event. Though I'm aware we tend to jump to the worse. My counselor is worried that because I don't trust my own judgement, I am often too forgiving of people. I'm sure if he was sharing, he would say he made some mistakes and my reaction was completely out of line with what he did. In order to not keep the attachment alive I need to remember all the things he did that didn't work for me. But I do try to hold onto that he loved me, and helped me grow in so many ways. I will always love him and be thankful for our time together.
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 11, 2022 2:39:44 GMT
I de-activated my Facebook to sever one of the last ties between us and the next day his friend sent me a video about why some people are obsessed with "astrology, psychology and personality types" and asked me what I thought of it. At first I wanted to tell her how wrong the video was but I just kept it simple with "cute". Unfortunately the damage was done and I'm in another spiral of missing him and wondering why she reached out. The timing is so suspect.
He has an out of print dvd of mine that I really want back and I have some of his items but I can't bring myself to reach out. I'm struggling with why. Is it because I know I'll cry and I don't want him to see me still missing him or maybe it's because then it's really really over... Maybe both. Then I'm feeling shame because I keep wondering why he didn't return my dvd with the rest of my things and I know I shouldn't be reading into it... But I am.
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Post by krolle on Jan 13, 2022 17:33:25 GMT
I de-activated my Facebook to sever one of the last ties between us and the next day his friend sent me a video about why some people are obsessed with "astrology, psychology and personality types" and asked me what I thought of it. At first I wanted to tell her how wrong the video was but I just kept it simple with "cute". Unfortunately the damage was done and I'm in another spiral of missing him and wondering why she reached out. The timing is so suspect. He has an out of print dvd of mine that I really want back and I have some of his items but I can't bring myself to reach out. I'm struggling with why. Is it because I know I'll cry and I don't want him to see me still missing him or maybe it's because then it's really really over... Maybe both. Then I'm feeling shame because I keep wondering why he didn't return my dvd with the rest of my things and I know I shouldn't be reading into it... But I am. Are you and his friend on terms where you guys message each other randomly? And in terms of the difficulty reaching out for your dvd then yes I would agree with what you said. Part of it is that it respresents a final break, and partly that its just a really painful thing to deal with reaching out to an ex after a painful break up when emotions are still raw. Your brain is designed to avoid pain so its natural it would be difficult.
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Post by cherrycola on Feb 1, 2022 4:14:43 GMT
Are you and his friend on terms where you guys message each other randomly? And in terms of the difficulty reaching out for your dvd then yes I would agree with what you said. Part of it is that it respresents a final break, and partly that its just a really painful thing to deal with reaching out to an ex after a painful break up when emotions are still raw. Your brain is designed to avoid pain so its natural it would be difficult. I meant to reply to this, got halfway through when my computer ate it so I forgot. Sorry about that, I really appreciated your reply. We are not on terms where we are friendly or message each other things other then local dessert shops. Which is what she has continued to send me so I think she got the message. I reached out to D directly and said I hoped he was doing well, I realized he still had my dvd and could we meet at a local market halfway between us for me to get it back. It took awhile, but his reply was he has my DVD and some hair products and will mail them back. very direct. It felt like the reply of someone who is still hurt? It's actually going to be really expensive to mail that package vs just spending the 5 minutes to meet up with me. I cried, I let it out that he is still harboring this against me three months later, and am now trying to feel compassion for him. Part of me now feels like sending a "I wish you the best in life, good luck" kind of text to be like "I don't care anyways!" Which really shows part of me still cares, but I think it's the part of me that is a child and going "BUT YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO ME" more then wanting him back. I think I am at the point where even if he wanted to reconcile I no longer do. My ex fiancé had far more reason to hate my guts with the way I ended our relationship and he and I are still friends, because he was able to talk to me like an adult.
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