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Post by charlii on Feb 14, 2022 14:52:50 GMT
Sorry to hear your situation. It get's easier day by day but yet still there. Sent u a Private
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 14, 2022 15:33:57 GMT
This is a very tricky place to be in as an AP….but remind yourself that nothing has truly “changed”. The direction of things between the two of you is squarely in her hands (and you are allowing it). It is not unusual for an insecurely attached individual to reach out once the formal “relationship” is over….because he/she will “miss” the attention and care provided by the other insecure individual…and without any accountability to the other person…it will seem like she is more jokey, flirty etc. And yes…to someone hoping for a reconciliation and not looking at the situation holistically…it can come across as mixed signals. My suggestion is to be honest with her about what it is you want and see if she wants the same thing…,that will cut through a lot of the confusion and hopefulness and give you a clear picture of whether she wants to pursue getting back together or only wants to keep you as a friend. At this point, I would suggest you be your own advocate for what you want irrespective of how she is behaving. Because there is a very good chance that she enjoys being in control, having you around but without any strings attached.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2022 15:55:29 GMT
You're being used by an insecure individual for emotional/nervous system regulation. It will go on as long as you allow it, and it won't evolve to meet your needs for a relationship. Also, as tnr9 mentioned above, it's up to you to have your boundaries and advocate for yourself. I'm sorry you're in that spot but these insecure entanglements are very confounding and painful, without exception. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 4:35:28 GMT
You're being used by an insecure individual for emotional/nervous system regulation. It will go on as long as you allow it, and it won't evolve to meet your needs for a relationship. Also, as tnr9 mentioned above, it's up to you to have your boundaries and advocate for yourself. I'm sorry you're in that spot but these insecure entanglements are very confounding and painful, without exception. If I’m regulating her, good. It just means to me that I’m valuable, and I see that value. Imagine what she doesn’t express to me. It seems like she reached out the first time when her mother first went into isolation. And reached out a second time when she got more sick. She’s expressed a lot of emotions, so I assume there’s a lot more behind the curtain. Why in your mind won’t it evolve? I’m giving her everything she wants, but non of the triggers. I assume she will slowly open up, as she has been doing. She said she isn't interested in a relationship, with anyone, and that's why I think it won't progress. You're looking at potential, I'm looking at what's actually going on now. But if it works for you, hang in there. The outcome will come, eventually. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 5:43:57 GMT
She said she isn't interested in a relationship, with anyone, and that's why I think it won't progress. You're looking at potential, I'm looking at what's actually going on now. But if it works for you, hang in there. The outcome will come, eventually. Why wouldn't I look at potential though? If I hadn't, my ex and I wouldn't even be speaking right now. And isn't she saying she isn't interested on a relationship based on the pressures that caused the triggers previously? Since she has come back, she often tells me she's scared of being alone, just like when we were in the relationship. So we both know she's conflicted. But I also know she's talking to nobody else, except me. So there's a lot of moving parts going on here. What I'm going to do is be mindful and understanding. People aren't robots, they make mistakes and sometimes they don't know what they have until it's gone. Since the breakup, she hasn't been well mentally, but I truly believe she doesn't know why as she buried her emotions. But in the end, I'm going to do what's best. I cannot accept friendship. How long do you think I should give her, to come out? 1 month? 2? <style class="dark-mode--filters"></style> I'm sorry, I can't advise you how long to give her, as I think it's foolish to anticipate a relationship with someone who shows no capacity and says they don't want a relationship. You may certainly continue to assume and hope and appreciate where it's gotten you, from relationship to breakup to friendship... it's totally your choice. If you make that choice, then you just have to see how it goes day by day and decide what you want to do if you decide that it's not living up to your expectations. Of course you know that nobody here has a crystal ball, we all just have tons of collective experience with this. Do what you think is best and accept what happens over time. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 15, 2022 5:48:07 GMT
It's bad to look at potential in a relationship instead of what's actually in front of you because you end up always chasing a fantasy. Which can't work out, because that's the nature of fantasy. You don't see someone for who they are, you see them for who you hope they can be -- which doesn't necessarily match who they are or who they want to be. There's a lot of projection that goes into it, which leads to unmet expectations and unmet needs on both ends. It's the same reason people shouldn't enter a relationship hoping to change the other person. It's also a co-dependent approach, which lends itself to being unhealthy and dysfunctional. I'm speaking of all this in "general you" terms, not you you, but it definitely applies to your question about isn't it good you're regulating her because it shows you have value. The answer to that is no because it's co-dependent when adults can't emotionally regulate themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 6:28:45 GMT
It's good to question your own emotional health in any situation that has you confused. It seems as though this situation has triggered a "white knight" sort of response, in which you are the hero to save her from her woundedness. That's a codependent role, I'm suggesting it because of your writing, that's what comes across to me.
For some more exposure to this idea, have a look at all the threads here related to an avoidant (DA or FA) "coming back" or "being scared" or "not wanting a relationship". If you can find an incidence here of a relationship evolving from that please tag me with the "@" sign because I've missed it, for real. I haven't seen it happen here or in real life.
My own experience with this scenario as an avoidant (DA, so a different presentation but still relationship averse) goes like this:
I met this guy, socially, he asked if I want to go on a hike. We talked about dating and stuff... I told him I didn't want a relationship, but I would enjoy being friends. He thought that was nice. We hiked, hung out, spoke frequently on the phone about our lives, dramas, work, etc etc. I really enjoyed the company.
I had no interest in dating him or being in a relationship. Our association was purely platonic and never a hint was given of anything otherwise. On either side.
Finally, after months, some other guy asked me out and I thought I'd like to go out with him. So I told my hiking buddy.
He was so upset, and I was taken aback, because I thought it was clear that we were platonic friends and I had never given any hint of anything otherwise. Neither had he! He was apparently just seeing some kind of hidden potential and was fostering that, thinking that all our hanging out was leading somewhere. It never was. So, he wasted all that time on potential and I dated someone else.
Your situation is different in many ways but the same in one important way: You want a relationship with someone who says she doesn't, and you are assuming that because she enjoys your company, she will come around. It's your life, it's your gamble. As you go along through this, maybe ask yourself... Am I codependent and emotionally unavailable myself? Am I a rescuer? Do I make assumptions about the future based on what I want instead of accepting someone as they are right now? Do I think I know what this person needs and that I am the one to provide it, while ignoring the reality I am seeing and ignoring my own needs? Those are just a few questions, if you're interested in exploring something about yourself here. It's optional, of course, just a suggestion if you have even a tiny inkling of doubt about your own emotional health here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 14:53:34 GMT
What do you want in terms of feedback? I've offered my feedback but it's apparently not what you are here to hear. If you're good with the situation, just stick with it, you don't need to convince anyone about the why or how or anything else. Good luck!
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 15, 2022 15:02:31 GMT
But let me ask you this, I asked her about a relationship 2 hours after she broke NC. The FA's I spoke with said she wouldn't have said yes, and that I need to give her space. Let me quote everything
It honestly sounds like you are looking at this forum to help to regulate your nervous system by providing a different response then the ones your friends gave.
We cannot provide you with an answer on how she will respond any better then your friends can. At this point, the focus should move from how can I get the response I want to…is this waiting on her worth it? Turn the attention that you are giving to wondering about her around to checking in with how you feel. It sounds like you really struggle with your self esteem and it might be beneficial to see a therapist. Are you seeing one currently?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 15:40:33 GMT
But let me ask you this, I asked her about a relationship 2 hours after she broke NC. The FA's I spoke with said she wouldn't have said yes, and that I need to give her space. Let me quote everything It honestly sounds like you are looking at this forum to help to regulate your nervous system by providing a different response then the ones your friends gave. We cannot provide you with an answer on how she will respond any better then your friends can. At this point, the focus should move from how can I get the response I want to…is this waiting on her worth it? Turn the attention that you are giving to wondering about her around to checking in with how you feel. It sounds like you really struggle with your self esteem and it might be beneficial to see a therapist. Are you seeing one currently? Can you help me understand that piece about regulating here on the forum by seeking a different view? It seems plausible but I'm not sure I understand the strategy. If not that's ok too! I just wonder if I'm missing something in threads like this, it seems contradictory to ask for different views and then reject them all or counter them all? I don't understand the why of it. |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 15, 2022 16:17:22 GMT
But let me ask you this, I asked her about a relationship 2 hours after she broke NC. The FA's I spoke with said she wouldn't have said yes, and that I need to give her space. Let me quote everything It honestly sounds like you are looking at this forum to help to regulate your nervous system by providing a different response then the ones your friends gave. We cannot provide you with an answer on how she will respond any better then your friends can. At this point, the focus should move from how can I get the response I want to…is this waiting on her worth it? Turn the attention that you are giving to wondering about her around to checking in with how you feel. It sounds like you really struggle with your self esteem and it might be beneficial to see a therapist. Are you seeing one currently? Can you help me understand that piece about regulating here on the forum by seeking a different view? It seems plausible but I'm not sure I understand the strategy. If not that's ok too! I just wonder if I'm missing something in threads like this, it seems contradictory to ask for different views and then reject them all or counter them all? I don't understand the why of it. Yes….the best way I can describe it is when an infant is scared because his/her mom has stepped away….the nervous system goes into high gear until someone says…she is coming back. Now replace mom with the romantic interest. It may not make sense…but since an AP attachment style relies on others to regulate…especially the love interest….there is a period of time after the breakup when there is a need that comes across as a desire for the person to come back. During some imagery work post the break up with B…I came to realize that to my little girl B had become her “cherished” person. The idea of losing him was beyond devastating so I kept trying to get different answers from people. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 16:34:16 GMT
Can you help me understand that piece about regulating here on the forum by seeking a different view? It seems plausible but I'm not sure I understand the strategy. If not that's ok too! I just wonder if I'm missing something in threads like this, it seems contradictory to ask for different views and then reject them all or counter them all? I don't understand the why of it. Yes….the best way I can describe it is when an infant is scared because his/her mom has stepped away….the nervous system goes into high gear until someone says…she is coming back. Now replace mom with the romantic interest. It may not make sense…but since an AP attachment style relies on others to regulate…especially the love interest….there is a period of time after the breakup when there is a need that comes across as a desire for the person to come back. During some imagery work post the break up with B…I came to realize that to my little girl B had become her “cherished” person. The idea of losing him was beyond devastating so I kept trying to get different answers from people. So I'm confused because it seems like this poster was getting the green light from other FA's they knew, and was dead set on doing things the way they were.. why come here to prove that? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 16:37:03 GMT
Like, even saying "Ok, do what you think is best" didn't seem to go over well. Which is fine as I'm not tied to any outcome at all but I don't understand the dialog.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 15, 2022 18:38:14 GMT
@introvert, I suspect that in spite of others validating the poster IRL, needs and the desired response were still not getting met by the ex, and deep down they know something is still wrong. When someone leans anxious, they don't trust themselves at all and they want the magic bullet answer for the formula that gets them what they want. That means a combination of doing what tnr9 said, and looking to talk to anyone who will listen to simultaneously ruminate (which isn't something that feels like you can control when it's happening to you btw) and who will help emotionally regulate them and/or point out some new angle they missed to get closer to the formula so they can keep trying to salvage the connection with the attachment figure. Saying something like do what you want / think is best doesn't lead to the person responding well because they are so disconnected with and distrustful of themselves, it's an analysis paralysis thing of, but I don't think anything is best or even good enough, and then continued flailing and anxiety. (Plus, it can sound to an insecure like the other person is giving up on the conversation and doesn't really mean what they're saying, they just want to exit... fine, if you're so smart then do what's best and see if I care! I'm out... and that can trigger abandonment fears of not being good enough to continue engaging with.) So someone might come here saying, I just learned attachment theory exists and it seems like it is the holy grail to understanding this person and learning how to meet all their needs so they'll meet mine!! Which of course isn't how attachment theory works or assists people. But I can see wanting to engage in this discussion to explore it in hopes of that, then not knowing how to handle hearing something you didn't want to hear instead. Some people are ready and willing to hear the hard truths and may reengage after digesting that and getting over feeling triggered by it, and then will keep seeking more information about their side of things and what they can do for themselves. Or, they may feel hurt and reject the people helping them as not understanding or being bitter or whatever and leave instead. Returning to their anxiety hell and trying to figure out other ways to make it feel better. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 15, 2022 19:19:58 GMT
There's also an aspect about countering and debating which helps some people process information. If you have the energy to argue as they play devil's advocate, they are challenging what you say because they are actually listening not rejecting, in an effort to see if what you say makes sense for their own reassessment. It may sound counter-intuitive since they're often doing much more talking than listening. This communication style is very hard for some people to engage with, because it is an off-shoot of looking at someone else for self-regulation (in regards to you are tasking someone else to "convince you" instead of taking full responsibility for coming up with your own convictions), and I suspect it would be completely offputting for DAs who would find it draining and even enabling. It's not usually a good thing to do unless you know the person you're talking to enjoys that sort of intense type of conversation, because there's otherwise a lot of space for the other person to feel trampled on even if that's not the speaker's intent. I'm not saying that's what the poster was doing here, as I don't believe it was (eventually the countering stops and the opinions shift if someone is doing this). But sometimes in general it is how some people operate, even culturally in some places, and I used to do it when I was younger and I was exploring all angles of something.
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