|
|
Post by alexandra on Apr 18, 2022 18:02:09 GMT
My text is for secure or anxious people who are trying to deal with avoidants and i dont think it is because of age. Internet is full of with those stories who are way older and having same pattern for years. Short term relationships, self-sabotaging, hot-cold behavior, pushing away. No thanks just be secure and move on easily. I see here some people who is insisting to stay FA, good luck for them. What you're saying makes sense, but unfortunately it is only half the equation. Anxious people can't just be secure because they force themselves to keep to it one day (fake it until you make it) in the same way avoidants avoid. All the unhealthy, dysfunctional romantic relationship thought patterns and behaviors of every insecure attachment style, AP, DA, and FA, developed out of trauma. So the way to become more secure and let go of bad situations when attachment leads to an "anxious-avoidant trap" relationship, which is often what those who get stuck are experiencing over and over, is to turn inward to deal with your own trauma and move forward in emotional growth. Is one of those steps walking away from incompatible partners instead of sticking it out hoping something will magically change, like you're saying? Absolutely! Not doing that, choosing unaware insecure partners over and over, keeps people stuck and triggered and projecting their own issues onto the focusing on what their partner should change. But if you don't pair that with self-work and confronting trauma and learn a little more from each dating situation, you are doomed to repeat the pattern. There's two sides to finding and staying in better relationships that are equally important, 1. choosing good partners 2. being emotionally healthy yourself. Usually when you earnestly work on #2, #1 begins to naturally follow. In regards to age and inexperience and maturity, it's true that those are an issue up to a certain point. For unaware insecure attachers, they'll begin to get stuck and have the same relationships over and over without learning much no matter their age, because they're stuck in trauma. So it's not that someone is "insisting" on remaining FA exactly, it's that they're choosing to cope with their issues by continuing to avoid them because it is too scary and painful to do otherwise. People who are writing about their FA issues, since we are using that as an example, in a forum like this that is focused on self-work may still be stuck for now, but they are aware of what's going on if they're here for any amount of time. Changing tendencies and earning secure can take a couple years or more, usually a faster process with a good therapist if the person is truly willing to change. Someone who appears stuck in their posts may still be listening and processing even if they're not there yet, and you may still see big differences after weeks, months, or years. That doesn't mean you should date someone who is working through it or you shouldn't walk away (with respect and not just ghosting one day without any warning), but we attempt to view everyone who is trying to deal with their issues with compassion, anxious or avoidant. |
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Apr 18, 2022 23:50:25 GMT
Also she was doing these with someone else. So she was eating her cake like she had me and she had other guy. Kinda dating with both of us. A few weeks continued like this and I asked her to date with me like "official" decision she needs to make. And she said she isnt sure she is confused bla bla bla. I said her that my time is valuable i dont want to lose time with this childish game like she keep both of us in her hand. Then i pushed her to make decision. She said she doesnt want to date with anybody right now she needs time she isnt ready. Then i said okay i respect we move on totally and cut connection forever. I removed her number, all social media etc. She said okay she will try to move on from us maybe we would be together or marry in the future. I said i am not going to contact her anymore.Me and her were going to same aerobic course. After one week she registered other guy to this aerobic course and show up infront of me with him. I have never seen such disrespect before from anybody. It is crazy childish and sick move by her. After this moment something is broken in me against her like i lost my all respect to her and my love turned into like disgusting feeling towards her. You are accusing a child of being childish, which is itself very immature. Our brains don't stop forming until our mid 20s. It sounds like she did try to tell you where she was at, and I don't see anything in your writing that would suggest she was trying to lead you on. You may have been pushing her for more then she was able to provide, and that doesn't make her a bad person. You set a boundary with her that you didn't want to date her casually, you enforced it and everyone moved on. I think everyone has already touched on that we are here if you want to address your own part of this dynamic. |
|
|
|
Post by jash123 on Apr 19, 2022 13:53:01 GMT
My text is for secure or anxious people who are trying to deal with avoidants and i dont think it is because of age. Internet is full of with those stories who are way older and having same pattern for years. Short term relationships, self-sabotaging, hot-cold behavior, pushing away. No thanks just be secure and move on easily. I see here some people who is insisting to stay FA, good luck for them. What you're saying makes sense, but unfortunately it is only half the equation. Anxious people can't just be secure because they force themselves to keep to it one day (fake it until you make it) in the same way avoidants avoid. All the unhealthy, dysfunctional romantic relationship thought patterns and behaviors of every insecure attachment style, AP, DA, and FA, developed out of trauma. So the way to become more secure and let go of bad situations when attachment leads to an "anxious-avoidant trap" relationship, which is often what those who get stuck are experiencing over and over, is to turn inward to deal with your own trauma and move forward in emotional growth. Is one of those steps walking away from incompatible partners instead of sticking it out hoping something will magically change, like you're saying? Absolutely! Not doing that, choosing unaware insecure partners over and over, keeps people stuck and triggered and projecting their own issues onto the focusing on what their partner should change. But if you don't pair that with self-work and confronting trauma and learn a little more from each dating situation, you are doomed to repeat the pattern. There's two sides to finding and staying in better relationships that are equally important, 1. choosing good partners 2. being emotionally healthy yourself. Usually when you earnestly work on #2, #1 begins to naturally follow. In regards to age and inexperience and maturity, it's true that those are an issue up to a certain point. For unaware insecure attachers, they'll begin to get stuck and have the same relationships over and over without learning much no matter their age, because they're stuck in trauma. So it's not that someone is "insisting" on remaining FA exactly, it's that they're choosing to cope with their issues by continuing to avoid them because it is too scary and painful to do otherwise. People who are writing about their FA issues, since we are using that as an example, in a forum like this that is focused on self-work may still be stuck for now, but they are aware of what's going on if they're here for any amount of time. Changing tendencies and earning secure can take a couple years or more, usually a faster process with a good therapist if the person is truly willing to change. Someone who appears stuck in their posts may still be listening and processing even if they're not there yet, and you may still see big differences after weeks, months, or years. That doesn't mean you should date someone who is working through it or you shouldn't walk away (with respect and not just ghosting one day without any warning), but we attempt to view everyone who is trying to deal with their issues with compassion, anxious or avoidant. Thank you a lot for clear and meaningful comment. I agree no matter their age they will stuck in trauma specially if they dont get therapy. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 19, 2022 14:16:01 GMT
What you're saying makes sense, but unfortunately it is only half the equation. Anxious people can't just be secure because they force themselves to keep to it one day (fake it until you make it) in the same way avoidants avoid. All the unhealthy, dysfunctional romantic relationship thought patterns and behaviors of every insecure attachment style, AP, DA, and FA, developed out of trauma. So the way to become more secure and let go of bad situations when attachment leads to an "anxious-avoidant trap" relationship, which is often what those who get stuck are experiencing over and over, is to turn inward to deal with your own trauma and move forward in emotional growth. Is one of those steps walking away from incompatible partners instead of sticking it out hoping something will magically change, like you're saying? Absolutely! Not doing that, choosing unaware insecure partners over and over, keeps people stuck and triggered and projecting their own issues onto the focusing on what their partner should change. But if you don't pair that with self-work and confronting trauma and learn a little more from each dating situation, you are doomed to repeat the pattern. There's two sides to finding and staying in better relationships that are equally important, 1. choosing good partners 2. being emotionally healthy yourself. Usually when you earnestly work on #2, #1 begins to naturally follow. In regards to age and inexperience and maturity, it's true that those are an issue up to a certain point. For unaware insecure attachers, they'll begin to get stuck and have the same relationships over and over without learning much no matter their age, because they're stuck in trauma. So it's not that someone is "insisting" on remaining FA exactly, it's that they're choosing to cope with their issues by continuing to avoid them because it is too scary and painful to do otherwise. People who are writing about their FA issues, since we are using that as an example, in a forum like this that is focused on self-work may still be stuck for now, but they are aware of what's going on if they're here for any amount of time. Changing tendencies and earning secure can take a couple years or more, usually a faster process with a good therapist if the person is truly willing to change. Someone who appears stuck in their posts may still be listening and processing even if they're not there yet, and you may still see big differences after weeks, months, or years. That doesn't mean you should date someone who is working through it or you shouldn't walk away (with respect and not just ghosting one day without any warning), but we attempt to view everyone who is trying to deal with their issues with compassion, anxious or avoidant. Thank you a lot for clear and meaningful comment. I agree no matter their age they will stuck in trauma specially if they dont get therapy. Interesting that of everything alexandra wrote above…including the information regarding the fact that all insecurely attached individuals have work to do…that you would hone in on this as a response. I truly hope in your therapy you are able to be open regarding your own issues and do not slide into a blame mindset as that would not be very effective towards becoming secure. |
|
sorgin
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by sorgin on Apr 19, 2022 14:59:30 GMT
Some of the commentators here have been where you are right now plenty of times. They are in position to tell what worked for them, and what didn't. As they said, if you don't work on yourself you'll fall into the same insecure dynamics again and again. It's just a matter of time, you'll see. Intead of cherry picking words to validate what you think is plain truth, try to be more compassionate with yourself and her, see it as what it is, two opposed insecures who have different responses to trauma. I know it's hard to accept that you're not the victim here and blame is shared when atachment issues show up, but just give it a try. I am not much older than you but I wish I had the advise and support this forum brings to me when I was 25.
|
|
|
|
Post by introvert on Apr 19, 2022 15:18:24 GMT
Some of the commentators here have been where you are right now plenty of times. They are in position to tell what worked for them, and what didn't. As they said, if you don't work on yourself you'll fall into the same insecure dynamics again and again. It's just a matter of time, you'll see. Intead of cherry picking words to validate what you think is plain truth, try to be more compassionate with yourself and her, see it as what it is, two opposed insecures who have different responses to trauma. I know it's hard to accept that you're not the victim here and blame is shared when atachment issues show up, but just give it a try. I am not much older than you but I wish I had the advise and support this forum brings to me when I was 25. Right? I mean, avoidants go through the same process, none of us get better tilll we see how what we know to do isn't working. The basic sequence for any type or anyone at all who engages in self destructive patterns is Try it the way you know how again again again suffer each time hit a wall question what you think you know open to new information learn new things try again with new understanding, approach and skills get better results over time change has occurred internally and outcomes improve. Even if you're involved with a very pathological person this is true... change has to happen in you to know and do better. As long as no one is forcing you into servitude with a gun to your head you have choices all along but may not see that until life opens your eyes. |
|
sorgin
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by sorgin on Apr 19, 2022 15:54:40 GMT
Some of the commentators here have been where you are right now plenty of times. They are in position to tell what worked for them, and what didn't. As they said, if you don't work on yourself you'll fall into the same insecure dynamics again and again. It's just a matter of time, you'll see. Intead of cherry picking words to validate what you think is plain truth, try to be more compassionate with yourself and her, see it as what it is, two opposed insecures who have different responses to trauma. I know it's hard to accept that you're not the victim here and blame is shared when atachment issues show up, but just give it a try. I am not much older than you but I wish I had the advise and support this forum brings to me when I was 25. Right? I mean, avoidants go through the same process, none of us get better tilll we see how what we know to do isn't working. The basic sequence for any type or anyone at all who engages in self destructive patterns is Try it the way you know how again again again suffer each time hit a wall question what you think you know open to new information learn new things try again with new understanding, approach and skills get better results over time change has occurred internally and outcomes improve. Even if you're involved with a very pathological person this is true... change has to happen in you to know and do better. As long as no one is forcing you into servitude with a gun to your head you have choices all along but may not see that until life opens your eyes. Haha yeah, that's how it works right? Also I see the value in finding a good partner as an alternative to work on yourself so you can rewire your brain but, does it really happen frecuently? I mean, do secures want to date someone way more insecure than them? |
|
rykus9
Junior Member
Posts: 91
|
Post by rykus9 on Apr 19, 2022 16:15:17 GMT
It is a nice fantasy to think that finding someone who will work perfectly in the broken system we built up around ourselves.
Even if that did happen could you trust it. Would you be able to let your guard down and show up stable in a response to a stable person.
I think a lot of insecure would raise issues that a stable person may care enough to try to help work through, but probably more likely if they showed up early on, either as being smothering or unable to be supportive that a stable person would have the security to realize it the issue is in you and not them and would probably not stay attached.
There is a reason that AP folks are more attracted to DA , it validates their programing and reaffirms their life experiences. Same with dismissive,who else would give the chase we need to even find a relationship.
As a male although I know there are many DA males society expects us to lead and chase to some extent. Right away that puts us at a disadvantage maybe for finding much less attracting a less AP partner?
|
|
|
|
Post by introvert on Apr 19, 2022 16:20:59 GMT
Right? I mean, avoidants go through the same process, none of us get better tilll we see how what we know to do isn't working. The basic sequence for any type or anyone at all who engages in self destructive patterns is Try it the way you know how again again again suffer each time hit a wall question what you think you know open to new information learn new things try again with new understanding, approach and skills get better results over time change has occurred internally and outcomes improve. Even if you're involved with a very pathological person this is true... change has to happen in you to know and do better. As long as no one is forcing you into servitude with a gun to your head you have choices all along but may not see that until life opens your eyes. Haha yeah, that's how it works right? Also I see the value in finding a good partner as an alternative to work on yourself so you can rewire your brain but, does it really happen frecuently? I mean, do secures want to date someone way more insecure than them? It's a very popular thing to say: "That person is avoidant, doesn't matter what you do, they will be avoidant because it's their dysfunction and they will continue to be this way until they get help and change..." Which is true. Also true but far less popular: "That person is anxiously preoccupied, no matter what you do they will be AP because it's their dysfunction and they will continue to be this way until they get help and change..." |
|
|
|
Post by jash123 on Apr 20, 2022 6:21:25 GMT
Haha yeah, that's how it works right? Also I see the value in finding a good partner as an alternative to work on yourself so you can rewire your brain but, does it really happen frecuently? I mean, do secures want to date someone way more insecure than them? It's a very popular thing to say: "That person is avoidant, doesn't matter what you do, they will be avoidant because it's their dysfunction and they will continue to be this way until they get help and change..." Which is true. Also true but far less popular: "That person is anxiously preoccupied, no matter what you do they will be AP because it's their dysfunction and they will continue to be this way until they get help and change..." I agree both but i dont think being AP is the thing ending relationships out of blue like avoidants do. There are many articles or videos about it. Anxious people are called "problem solver" in relationships otherwise they dont feel good while avoidants avoid. Instead of explain just they run away. So some of FA members here telling me that oh you need therapy too only problem isnt in your FA gf bla bla. I already knew these you dont need to mention. You should ask yourself why am I FA still in this age since years are gone. I think if a relationships ends in AP-Avoidant couple it is most of the time because avoidants run away for no reason and this is triggering anxious side. Or they self-sabotage relationships and they do this to SECURE people too not only because of you are Anxious. As I said before I am not anxious that much i never bombed with text my ex or send gift or anything. In the break up moment ı got extremely emotional and sad that is it. So I as I am leaning to secure more than anxious i dont think I need therapy while I think all avoidants need therapy because they have something in their past. They have trauma. So I am telling to those members please stop, I see already what is going on. Maybe something triggered my exes avoidant side such as saying "moving together" "becoming official" but i dont think such things cant be said in relationship. So if you are FA please first solve your childhood traumas. If there is something need to be solved in AP side, it comes much later than this. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Apr 20, 2022 6:42:42 GMT
jash123, are you ever attracted to people who aren't avoidants? Or do you find something is off, maybe even boring, about more secure and emotionally available folks? Have you dated many secures, or have you had mostly avoidant partners?
|
|
rykus9
Junior Member
Posts: 91
|
Post by rykus9 on Apr 20, 2022 6:44:01 GMT
jash123 anxious preoccupied is also an insecure attachment formed from childhood trauma. You will also drive away secure people but will likely be attracted to avoidants because they validate your emotions and thoughts about relationships. Good luck though moving on from this point, sorry you are hurt like that.
|
|
|
|
Post by jash123 on Apr 20, 2022 10:09:42 GMT
jash123 , are you ever attracted to people who aren't avoidants? Or do you find something is off, maybe even boring, about more secure and emotionally available folks? Have you dated many secures, or have you had mostly avoidant partners? This was my first time with avoidant , i had relationships everytime with anxious and secure. (they ended because of I had to move other country) And I had everytime long term relationships. This was the shortest, still over 1 year. And I found my ex more boring because of she was lonely wolf everytime wanted to stay alone and watch netflix series at home. The thing is I saw first time those patterns in a relationship such as hot & cold from today to tomorrow, self-sabotage and making problem from every little detail. She was making small thing into biggest problem because of the color of my socks. Come on  and you cant run away saying like "she was child". She wasnt such in the beginning of relationship and it was more than one year relationship. Fearful avoidants have same pattern that "Chris Seiter" on youtube explains perfectly. They start relationship with anxious tendencies like dying for love, everything starts perfect and goes smooth and fast, then something triggers their avoidant side and they start to self sabotage relationship. For FA pattern ibb.co/ZHZbpRJ |
|
|
|
Post by jash123 on Apr 20, 2022 10:11:06 GMT
jash123 anxious preoccupied is also an insecure attachment formed from childhood trauma. You will also drive away secure people but will likely be attracted to avoidants because they validate your emotions and thoughts about relationships. Good luck though moving on from this point, sorry you are hurt like that. as I said i am not anxious totally, in break up moment it triggered. But later i said okay we will move on and we will be happy without each other. In break-up I was anxious and emotional, sad. But i didnt run after her and bombing her with text etc. I didnt text her until she texts me. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 20, 2022 11:53:52 GMT
It's a very popular thing to say: "That person is avoidant, doesn't matter what you do, they will be avoidant because it's their dysfunction and they will continue to be this way until they get help and change..." Which is true. Also true but far less popular: "That person is anxiously preoccupied, no matter what you do they will be AP because it's their dysfunction and they will continue to be this way until they get help and change..." I agree both but i dont think being AP is the thing ending relationships out of blue like avoidants do. There are many articles or videos about it. Anxious people are called "problem solver" in relationships otherwise they dont feel good while avoidants avoid. Instead of explain just they run away. So some of FA members here telling me that oh you need therapy too only problem isnt in your FA gf bla bla. I already knew these you dont need to mention. You should ask yourself why am I FA still in this age since years are gone. I think if a relationships ends in AP-Avoidant couple it is most of the time because avoidants run away for no reason and this is triggering anxious side. Or they self-sabotage relationships and they do this to SECURE people too not only because of you are Anxious. As I said before I am not anxious that much i never bombed with text my ex or send gift or anything. In the break up moment ı got extremely emotional and sad that is it. So I as I am leaning to secure more than anxious i dont think I need therapy while I think all avoidants need therapy because they have something in their past. They have trauma. So I am telling to those members please stop, I see already what is going on. Maybe something triggered my exes avoidant side such as saying "moving together" "becoming official" but i dont think such things cant be said in relationship. So if you are FA please first solve your childhood traumas. If there is something need to be solved in AP side, it comes much later than this. Based on how you have blamed her….I am not sure how you do not have your own insecurity issues. The above does not show empathy or caring. I get going through the stages of grief but I would suggest that you examine why it is so important that you hold her completely accountable instead of speaking from a shared responsibility mindset. I still get the impression that shared responsibility is a concept that triggers you. |
|
and you cant run away saying like "she was child". She wasnt such in the beginning of relationship and it was more than one year relationship. Fearful avoidants have same pattern that "Chris Seiter" on youtube explains perfectly. They start relationship with anxious tendencies like dying for love, everything starts perfect and goes smooth and fast, then something triggers their avoidant side and they start to self sabotage relationship.