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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 13:31:10 GMT
I have a thought... maybe someone can relate maybe not. I think that my current relationship with my boyfriend was made possible by the fact that we got to know each other for 5 months or so in a non-dating context. There was the potential for a long term acquaintanceship, through a shared activity... but relationship was not on the table for me. He expressed no interest in anything further for those whole 5 months so I had no clue that he was pursuing me in any way. I find that refreshing. He was content to continue the way we were if I would have turned him down, and I believe that. But he let our time be about the shared interest. One which we continue to share on a passionate level today.
I wasn't attracted to him physically all that time- but I am now. That brings me to another thought- sexual attraction can become very strong and build on things like shared values, respect, intimacy gained over time. The sizzle can fizzle if you know what I mean. Ours hasn't- it developed and was chosen when it had merit.
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rykus9
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Post by rykus9 on Apr 27, 2022 14:45:10 GMT
Glad your pursuing this further sorgin I think it is helping me a lot and I wish I could have discovered this at a younger age myself although I am very thankful I am here now too! By my guard and obliviousness, I was referring to the fact that I met most pursuit with distrust. My first line of interactions was to try to fill a need I had for reassurance or to understand the attraction so I was guarded and would have an offensive position in the conversation (not trying to offend just questioning in a manner I think of offense because I am asking all the questions and all are for my understanding not an even exchange) I think once I felt reassured they actually where interested I would enter the oblivious phase where I felt like because they shared and met my need to feel valued, I would try to return the favor by opening up but because I didn't have good boundaries or secure attachment it went from a doubt fueled interrogation about their intentions towards me, to a dump fest where I unloaded a bunch of very heavy stuff about me and my life as very matter of fact Un emotional this is how it is take it or leave it, also all about me. So now I have had an interrogation about her intents, shared all my issues and past etc but guess what. There was no sharing. Not much st all about her. No back and forth. I guess it was kind of like introverttemporary said I was kind of creating a wall. I was also reaffirming my beliefs that I was damaged and unlovable by creating these walls, and I see now I was also setting the perfect trap for an AP who wanted to avoid themselves and focus on poor broken me. I know the online dating stuff is mostly toxic and perpetuates a lot of the insecure dynamics(especially the bs redpill teen stuff), but for me I just needed some frame work of any social interactions that where acceptable. My approach was not and I realize I instantly tried very hard to push for a deeper bond that was unhealthy and pushed secure people away as it was very focused on me and protecting myself. |
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sorgin
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Post by sorgin on May 3, 2022 13:38:43 GMT
@introverttemporary Unaware AP who to victimize themselves while villainazing DA are still your Achilles' heel hahaha but I'd say it looks like your doing a great job working on yourself. Dating is also very draining to me and I prefer to know someone way before dating them. I am quite sure the reasons differ from one another. To me, dating a stranger makes me feel unprotected in the way that the setting doesn't come from a position of neutrality. It is clear that we both are interested in dating... So I will either have to face rejection or have to tell that person I am not interested (I panic about the former). Plus people act differently when they are interested in you, in contrast they are more free to be themselves or to tell some sort of stuff when they are unaware of your feelings toward them so you can judge whether it is safe to approach. No doubt most of the girls I ended up with were previously friends. On top of this there is a common denomination I'll have to face no matter what: shame, unworthyness when it comes to love and/or me as a romantic partner, a wide and diverse range of fears, etcetera. Is is called the inner critic isn't it? I would say the most common "modus opperandis" to me is waiting until the person I like sends me unequivocal signals I interpret as her being interested in me and then when I feel it is safe and I like her... I will approach. I can also send small signals and see if I get feedback. I have a long history of both unconsciously or consciously overlooking signals becuase either I don't see it, I don't believe it can be true, it is true now but it won't when they know me or I am not sure about the signals and I don't want to deal with rejection or shame because I misinterpreted singls. I have been aware of my fault finding/deactivating tendencies since I was 20 yrs old, even though I was not interested in knowing or asking myself why, totally eluded. I took for granted something was broken inside my in a unique way, mostly genetic-driven as I used to view psychology as a pseudocience and I could do nothing about it but to wait for the right person to come and save it, the perfect trap. I have had this very present in my mind and gave me anxiety, something said and still says "it's gonna happen again", stay away from this, you're gonna hurt yoursef and others. It's a complete mess. And it is worse at the beginning of a relationship. Looks like different people overshare due to different reasons. I still don't know exactly why I overshare, I mean, I really don't know for sure, I have some notions about what it might be but I don't trust myself enough to say "this is it". rykus9 I can to some dregree relate to what drives you to overshare, but why do you think it is a way to create a wall? it doesn't look like self sabotaging to me, it must be very very unconscious otherwise. I don't know if you can relate, but oversharing might bring some calmness in the way you already dump the tough stuff when the stakes are not to high and the fear of rejection is not so vivid, also take it or leave it as you said which is related to the former. But I don't see how it is a way to avoid intimacy in the way I've done it before (in a very DA fashion styled), looks like fear-something-driven, fear of rejection, fear of not being good enough, all of the stuff. I am still very foreigner to all of these concepts so I don't want to mistake anyone. Daring Greatly by Brené Brown is next in line after I finish CPTSD by Pete Walker, I am loving it so far. Sending good vibes. |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2022 14:18:52 GMT
Honestly sorgin I take issue with the victim mindset in any adult, not just AP. I don't encounter a lot of stuckness and victimhood IRL in my associations and there sometimes is a concentrated amount of that and projection on the board. If I weren't here honestly working through my own shortcomings and challenging my own narrative over time since I got here, it would be fitting to keep my mouth shut. But anyone here not trying to pass the buck has room to call it out, and they definitely do, which I think is a good thing ultimately. There hasn't always been a number of avoidantly attached people on the forum and at times it's just been reallllllly unbalanced and a huge blamefest, it gets pretty toxic and seems to go in waves but less and less it seems. Looking back, through the past threads there are times this forum was as sick as any can get, and the fact it isn't moderated has enabled some pretty toxic content from AP's. I've pointed some inappropriate posts out recently that were removed by the owner. So there are degrees of toxicity but if someone comes here shaming and blaming and pretending to be the god or goddess of the ultimate pure selfless love I'll likely continue to call it out, just saying. 👀 |
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rykus9
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Post by rykus9 on May 3, 2022 14:39:51 GMT
Hey sorgin I am so new to this all too I am trying to think of why I did all this from an outside view but honestly I am just as confused about it all as everyone else here I think. I just can see how when someone else says it and I think back, that there are a lot of things I definitely do that are inline with other experience here. The reason I see it as a wall is because I can see how I am saying it as an insecure person. I know all the thing I am most troubled by in myself , the things I fear and hate, all my doubts about myself and my ability to give or receive love. In my mind this focus on understanding what the other person wants is unhealthy because it takes away from a healthy open back and forth and although the question is about them , it also is about me so it would drive off stable and trigger AP imo. The oversharing next also isn't healthy back and forth, it's more me trying to reaffirm my doubts and prove myself unworthy of love. To make them chase and work to prove it as I don't believe it true or possible. I think from an outside if I think of it, we as people are all a bit messed up and have good and bad aspects. I think a healthy person can accept more of the good, and doesn't have the deep distrust so they can gradually learn more about each other and build healthy bonds over the good and bad as time and attachment t grows. I don't think it's fair to me or the people I tried to date to do what I did, as we haddent reached a point of attachment t where it was appropriate to share on such a deep level especially all the bad stuff with none of the good. It definitely pushed for more dysfunctional dynamics I see now, and probably I pushed away some people that may have been much healthier and maybe helped me grow if I would have been able. Hope you have a great day. |
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rykus9
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Post by rykus9 on May 3, 2022 22:00:46 GMT
I re read your earlier post about meeting people and I will add I read a book in my teens luckily that really opened me up to meeting new people.
It was a pretty basic and kind of new age almost religious called "the celestion prophecies" good story though and one of the premises was that everyone you meet is for a reason and could offer some connection or open a door to a new future event or path.
Because I too felt kind of awkward and had a fear of rejection I started to embrace that uneasy feeling and force myself to go approach anyone who would make eye contact with me if the looked interesting or I felt like I had a connection.
It does throw some people off but I met a lot of really interesting people, and I learned a lot of really attractive people are lonely because everyone is afraid to talk with them. It is awkward at first but it does open new doors and lead to new paths especially if your somewhere foreign or don't know anyone.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2022 22:31:50 GMT
I re read your earlier post about meeting people and I will add I read a book in my teens luckily that really opened me up to meeting new people. It was a pretty basic and kind of new age almost religious called "the celestion prophecies" good story though and one of the premises was that everyone you meet is for a reason and could offer some connection or open a door to a new future event or path. Because I too felt kind of awkward and had a fear of rejection I started to embrace that uneasy feeling and force myself to go approach anyone who would make eye contact with me if the looked interesting or I felt like I had a connection. It does throw some people off but I met a lot of really interesting people, and I learned a lot of really attractive people are lonely because everyone is afraid to talk with them. It is awkward at first but it does open new doors and lead to new paths especially if your somewhere foreign or don't know anyone. I love this. I didn't read that book but experienced a shift inside myself as I started to become aware, that had me countering my narrative and opening to people, as unique individuals who I could find connection with, even if on a friendly stranger level. That was the beginning of something new and very healing for me. When in a threat response, DA mode, I do notice a shift into the isolation and separation. Then I try to bring warmth to that and change my view, soften to people again and see myself as one who belongs, and everyone belongs, we are all in this life together. I appreciate how you share here, I really do. |
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Post by rykus9 on May 4, 2022 3:27:17 GMT
Thanks @introverttemporary I enjoy your posting very much as well.
I loved that book as a teen, it is writen very simply, I think it was a first book. Definitely not for everyone as it does cover a lot of what many consider pseudo science like energy and destiny and probably lots of other stuff I can't remember.
Basically from what I do remember is they find old manuscripts that have 9 rules or principles for life and they are being protected in the underground from people trying to destroy them. All wound up in a crazy adventure tale that's a quick read of probably 200 pages at most.
I think he did 2 follow up books but I never read them as I heard they weren't as good. I should maybe re read it now lol, although I've made thst mistake with a few old albums and movies I loved so maybe not.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2022 4:26:20 GMT
Thanks @introverttemporary I enjoy your posting very much as well. I loved that book as a teen, it is writen very simply, I think it was a first book. Definitely not for everyone as it does cover a lot of what many consider pseudo science like energy and destiny and probably lots of other stuff I can't remember. Basically from what I do remember is they find old manuscripts that have 9 rules or principles for life and they are being protected in the underground from people trying to destroy them. All wound up in a crazy adventure tale that's a quick read of probably 200 pages at most. I think he did 2 follow up books but I never read them as I heard they weren't as good. I should maybe re read it now lol, although I've made thst mistake with a few old albums and movies I loved so maybe not. Oh geez I've done the same, some great things should be left in the past with all their glory. Just take the gift of what it meant then and let it be maybe 😂 |
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sorgin
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Post by sorgin on May 4, 2022 14:35:17 GMT
Honestly sorgin I take issue with the victim mindset in any adult, not just AP. I don't encounter a lot of stuckness and victimhood IRL in my associations and there sometimes is a concentrated amount of that and projection on the board. If I weren't here honestly working through my own shortcomings and challenging my own narrative over time since I got here, it would be fitting to keep my mouth shut. But anyone here not trying to pass the buck has room to call it out, and they definitely do, which I think is a good thing ultimately. There hasn't always been a number of avoidantly attached people on the forum and at times it's just been reallllllly unbalanced and a huge blamefest, it gets pretty toxic and seems to go in waves but less and less it seems. Looking back, through the past threads there are times this forum was as sick as any can get, and the fact it isn't moderated has enabled some pretty toxic content from AP's. I've pointed some inappropriate posts out recently that were removed by the owner. So there are degrees of toxicity but if someone comes here shaming and blaming and pretending to be the god or goddess of the ultimate pure selfless love I'll likely continue to call it out, just saying. 👀 I uderstand you, it just makes me smile when I see you somehow upset and giving them a good dose of raw truth. I know I shouldn't but I do haha. Hey sorgin I am so new to this all too I am trying to think of why I did all this from an outside view but honestly I am just as confused about it all as everyone else here I think. I just can see how when someone else says it and I think back, that there are a lot of things I definitely do that are inline with other experience here. The reason I see it as a wall is because I can see how I am saying it as an insecure person. I know all the thing I am most troubled by in myself , the things I fear and hate, all my doubts about myself and my ability to give or receive love. In my mind this focus on understanding what the other person wants is unhealthy because it takes away from a healthy open back and forth and although the question is about them , it also is about me so it would drive off stable and trigger AP imo. The oversharing next also isn't healthy back and forth, it's more me trying to reaffirm my doubts and prove myself unworthy of love. To make them chase and work to prove it as I don't believe it true or possible. I think from an outside if I think of it, we as people are all a bit messed up and have good and bad aspects. I think a healthy person can accept more of the good, and doesn't have the deep distrust so they can gradually learn more about each other and build healthy bonds over the good and bad as time and attachment t grows. I don't think it's fair to me or the people I tried to date to do what I did, as we haddent reached a point of attachment t where it was appropriate to share on such a deep level especially all the bad stuff with none of the good. It definitely pushed for more dysfunctional dynamics I see now, and probably I pushed away some people that may have been much healthier and maybe helped me grow if I would have been able. Hope you have a great day. Not trying to mistake you, I am just curious about it because I as well learn more about what others say and thinking back than about me listening to myslef. Cherry picking what others say and see if that makes sense to me and if I can relate instead of let's say take an entire hour to think how I truly feel or why I do this or act that way. I do it but I get easily distracted after a little while. As a jack of all trades (and master of none) I know first hand that when you have learnt well enough from others you get tools and resources to keep learning and thriving on your own and you can make good choices in real time. Let's hope this is the case as well. I find interesting what you said about being more cautious of sharing. Even if you focus on the good and the lessons you learnt others might still find it awkward in the way you have not earn true intimacy. Still difficult to figure out where to draw the line of sharing and what/what not to expect in return when you are sharing, I mean, being understood, connection, validation. How to share in a healthy way, what it is fare to expect and not to expect is something I am yet to discover. I don't know if you both can relate but I sometimes feel briefly relieved after interpreting a signal that they are no longer interested in me before I turn to the more anxious side and start to regret what I said, shame, blah blah blah. It makes me feel suspicious of subconscious self-sabotage. It is the only thing that makes me see it as self-sabotage, builgind a wall, trying to validate that I am not worthy or love, whatever. Because when I analize it conciously it doesn't feel like self-sabotage, more like a desire to connect, being understood and liberate myself from the burden of having to share shameful stuff later so I assure myself she already knows the truth and won't reject me when she knows me well. It might perfectly be two separate things but it is suspicious to say the least. I am a hundred percent sure about this: I recently realized that I have cought myself in the past several times feeling relieved that the girl I was dating showed tumultuous past relationships because I never thought a healthy person would ever love me. This wasn't unconscious, it was more like a lightning thought that I deliberately overlooked. I am here having a look at a book I bought long ago (Attachment Disturbances in Adults by Daniel Brown) and I found this: "Reflective capacity or mentalizing skill in disorganized patientes is very low. Therefore, it is of vital importance that the therapist work toward incresing the patient's range of metacognitive skills. Reflective capacity according to google: Mentalizing, or reflective functioning, refers to our capacity to understand ourselves and others in terms of intentional mental states, such as feelings, desires, wishes, goals and attitudes. Mentalizing is a quintessential human capacity that is needed to be able to successfully navigate the social world. |
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sorgin
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Post by sorgin on May 4, 2022 14:43:25 GMT
I re read your earlier post about meeting people and I will add I read a book in my teens luckily that really opened me up to meeting new people. It was a pretty basic and kind of new age almost religious called "the celestion prophecies" good story though and one of the premises was that everyone you meet is for a reason and could offer some connection or open a door to a new future event or path. Because I too felt kind of awkward and had a fear of rejection I started to embrace that uneasy feeling and force myself to go approach anyone who would make eye contact with me if the looked interesting or I felt like I had a connection. It does throw some people off but I met a lot of really interesting people, and I learned a lot of really attractive people are lonely because everyone is afraid to talk with them. It is awkward at first but it does open new doors and lead to new paths especially if your somewhere foreign or don't know anyone. Thanks for sharing, I am not a religious or spiritual person but I agree that minset is helpful. Some friends try to cheer my up by saying it to me but whatt I find helpfull is this: I know I don't meet people for one special reason, nor I believe in destiny, but I certainly know that I can learn something from every interaction, about others and myself, and I will. |
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sorgin
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Post by sorgin on May 4, 2022 14:54:33 GMT
By the way, I don't recommend anyone who is starting to learn about AT to buy the book I mentioned. It's boring as hell, a clinical psychology book for clinicians or someone who understands the field. I don't know what I was thinking about at the time.
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rykus9
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Post by rykus9 on May 4, 2022 15:04:28 GMT
Sounds about right, I think that is why when I read others experiences I can relate but until I have that parallel I can't often think of "how I am" in an objective way. Especially with regards to feelings and emotions.
I too feel that relief when I'm putting effort into relating to people and I see them close off. As soon as you mention it I can see myself going through it not only with women but also if I am just trying to make a connection and am being met with judgment, ignorance,fear, conciet ...any rejection basically.
It is the strongest with women or close connections this feeling, for me it hits hard as hurt or insult when I read the reaction, the closing off, the distancing or whatever the sign is. I almost instantly turn this hurt into spite or anger and start going back through in my head the events and signs I caught or missed.
When I think about it this hurt then anger progression is usually me being hurt and feeling rejected because I rarely try to put myself out to connect with others and I take it overly personal as I am kind of intuitive and sensitive if I'm trying to bond and make real connection. Probably get hurt a little too easily.
I think the anger is me being frustrated at myself that I put myself out there and now I'm hurt and I need to build myself back up, it also reaffirms my mistrust of putting my emotions in the hands of others and that I set myself up for disappointment and let myself be vulnerable.
I do know I've acknowledged this about myself before because when I was younger I had a tendency to become a bit mean at this point and said hurtful things to people that where oblivious they had hurt me because I lacked the communication skills to actually connect properly.
I found a few old psychology text books as a late teen. Very dry lol but I thought it may help so I tried hard to read some. Don't think I learned much about myself but it was a fun thing to think about!
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Post by sunrisequest on May 4, 2022 22:32:26 GMT
It's so interesting to read about how these things feel from a more avoidant point of view. It's so great that you can put words and awareness around it.
It also makes me see that there are so many similarities between AP and DA ways of relating, but the flavours just come out differently.
I worked with a kinesiologist recently to work on my reactions to when someone shuts down or withdraws, particularly after I've been vulnerable or shared something of myself. But actually any type of shut down or withdrawal has the potential to send me to the typical AP way of thinking - that it's about me, my fault, I'm being rejected, abandoned etc.
She helped me to come up with some words to focus on in those moments... we came up with 'relaxation, curiosity, flow, surrender'... and somehow those words are actually coming into my brain when I am feeling unsure about why someone is relating to me in the way they are. I'm trying to just take a few breaths and remain in the moment (relax) and think about it from the other person's perspective, and ask a few more gentle questions to understand it (curiosity)... and remember that if someone has a problem with me and how I'm showing up, it's up to them to let me know (flow/surrender), not for me to start relentlessly digging to find proof of something that affirms the story that it's my fault, I'm not good enough, or the connection is under threat.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2022 2:08:53 GMT
sorgin I get you, in reference to the little chat about my reaction to unaware AP's. Honestly, my intention in writing what I do is to try to get them to see that they are abandoning themselves, they are out of touch with their own selves, need some boundaries, and need to take their needs as seriously as they want their partner to. Because that would help them, they would stop shooting themselves in the foot. I want AP posters to experience relief as much as I want any other person to. In those trap dynamics, neither party is taking the AP needs seriously- if the AP was then they wouldn't be chasing someone patently unavailable. But that's where the projection and blame comes in. So I'd really love for people to see this, it's not that they are somehow better or worse or whatever. What baffles me is the massive resistance to admitting that they don't love well... not themselves, and not another person. I think that FA and DA tend to know they don't have this figured out... but AP tend to be so insistent that the problem is not in them, until bam they do a 180 degree turn into flogging themselves and obsessing about what they did wrong, what is so wrong about them, that things didn't work out. So then there is that fluctuation between denial that they need to heal their own attachment dysfunction, into self blame and shame, then back to blaming the partner, and trying to figure them out.... all blanketed by this inability to actually receive what's being communicated because they have their own filter on. I've literally had situations when I am genuinely offering support and explaining that this is a TWO way dynamic... using the words TWO ways and BOTH sides are dysfunctional and the response is "SO THIS IS ALL MY FAULT?!?" So it's very tricky. So of course I have withdrawn from saying as much as I have to say because it flat won't be received. But when the ego comes in with them claiming some kind of emotional or moral superiority and vilifying the partner, or avoidants in general, I find that rather inappropriate and I do feel comfortable saying so. I think that with new AP's, there sometimes is a real disregard for others on this site. When an angry AP comes into a virtual room so to speak and doesn't know or have any respect for the audience. Of course we can all disagree, we can make our positions known and whatnot. But from what I have seen, the ONLY time that someone gets post-checked because it might hurt someone's feelings, is when an AP is offended or triggered. Especially before you more recent avoidant leaning guys came here. That's lame in my opinion. I mean, there has been some downright NASTY abusive stuff posted about avoidants over time and sometimes no one makes a singe comment... it was explained to me that it's because it won't change that poster's mind. But since when is laying a boundary about changing someone? We don't have to change people's minds. It's about saying what will and will not fly around you in your space. I thought this was a community. But not when it comes to protecting avoidants from actual verbal abuse. I've seen it, I've read recent past and far past. I'm not talking, stuff that can be taken the wrong way or misunderstood. I'm talking about HATE. So I've been really disappointed that no one comes to have the DA back when it comes to that stuff. Not a "Hey, that's hateful (or abusive, or offensive by normal standards) and we don't appreciate or condone that here. Please keep your posting respectful." Thankfully when I've flagged them to Jeb he agrees they are out of line and removes them. That makes me feel more welcome. But I get nudged about my posts. That's ok. I know it sounds like a rant here but I feel kind of matter of fact and my mood is- Look. Raw truth (that aligns with what you will read in the literature, it's not out of left field) should fly better than abusive hate, if it doesn't I'm ok, you're ok, we are all ok. Take what you want and leave the rest, you'll figure it out someday. Lots of us , all attachment style, are figuring it out together and I'm here for THAT. Rant over. 😃 Now- back to the topic of this oversharing. I posted an article in the general section about Vulnerabilty and I thought it was fantastic! It addressed the ways both anxious and avoidant avoid or block vulnerability. It talks about victim/perp dynamics, oversharing with someone not appropriate and what their response might be, it covers a lot of stuff that's been discussed lately! Have either of you guys sorgin or rykus9 read it? Fantastic discussion here. I find quite a bit of difference from how the FA mind operates compared to the DA mind, at least my experience of the DA mind in me. I don't (or didn't )do near as much thinking about things, not as much mental chess and I think it's about just sliding into avoidance without as much anxiety mixed in to complicate it. I don't know that I'm saying that well, but in general I am always surprised by the level of detail that you guys can articulate and I have to think really hard to get to the nitty gritty. I know I did read that in the Healing DA thread- don't ask a DA why they did something because they are really going to struggle with that. Because we aren't used to being in touch with that. So I can look back at things in hindsight and understand some things but not at the detailed level that AP and FA seem to be able to articulate. Also, I tend to think that with the single-person psychology of a DA there is a lot less to think about- that awareness of the other person just isn't nearly as acute. The story about one-person psychology system that Stan Tatkin relates is so relatable to me. In answer to the feeling of relief if someone is no longer interested in me followed by some anxiety, I don't recall ever feeling that combination. I would say I went into dating not as if I was going to an audition hoping to get a part but more like I was auditioning someone for a part I didn't really have interest in filling... so it was totally unavailable although sometimes some casual sex entered the equation but only if they were hot in the subconscious triggery way lol!!! In that case I'd have some limmerance while remaining unavailable and the thing would end with me ending it. But mostly my dating was a routine that I somehow felt was futile from the start because I wasn't comfortable with what I was trying to believe I was comfortable with. I flat out wasn't able to build and sustain connection without avoidant behavior entering in. so everything was a no go before it could get started. I still say that if I hadn't gotten the opportunity to build rapport with my boyfriend when relationship, sex, affection, none of that was on the table and we were focused on a common goal... then we wouldn't be together today. I shared a bunch of things with him, and he with me, in the context of just being acquainted and comparing notes about life lessons and how our sport transfers into life lessons. There was relatability. But it wasn't about acceptance or rejection or anything like that it was more like "This is what this means to me, this is why I do what I do...here is what I think, feel, here's why... " and it was just getting-to-know-you stuff with nothing on the line. It grew into intimacy. So it was very organic and I don't know that I could recreate that in dating. I've grown a LOT more secure over the course of our 2.5 or so year relationship. But I still don't know if I could or would date again. My brain locks up to consider that. I'm going to give this one everything I've got.
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