AP Friend - Attachment or just poor fit

Do you feel emotionally manipulated by this guy? What stands out to me is FOG... the Fear, Obligation and Guilt you mention. Those are common emotions in someone who is being emotionally blackmailed. You may be familiar with those terms and where they originated, if not you can google it.

I ask because of the following reasons:

He's shared with you the story of what happened when his ex made a mistake... he never forgave. You note that you don't consider the mistake to be anything worthy of that reaction. This could be a warning to you to not make a mistake- don't let him down or you, too, will be banished.  You did mention that somehow this story scares you.  That could be intentional, to avoid abandonment.  

You express what sounds like obligation when you write about his pushy behavior. I see it as pushy. He knows he is pushy. All of his friends go away because of it... OOOPS there's a little something to make you feel guilty... if you don't go along with this he will be abandoned. By you. You mentioned the word guilty a lot in that post. Maybe I'm off base with my assessment of that but have you explored why you feel guilty?

He wears you down because he can't respect your No, he's just got to push you a few more times. Do you think he has no control over himself? Or is he trying to control YOU? Wear you down with fear obligation and guilt?  Maybe even test you.  For sure, he's not respecting you.  

You could be vulnerable to being manipulated just because you fear being alone. And he knows that, you shared with him that you feel broken and that no one could love you, or something along those lines. I'm sorry you're in this confusing spot. Frankly, the more you share about him and about the feelings you have to choke down in order to be around him, the less I like this guy and I think your therapist weighed in in rare fashion for a reason.

I'm not necessarily saying he's evil. I'm saying he seems so self absorbed and unreasonable that it doesn't matter if it's attachment or not a good fit, he's a lot of headache. Is this the kind of friend you were looking for? It's very high maintenance and things don't need to be so extreme to meet your needs better than the more avoidant types. Middle is good.

Ahhh, I see. I misunderstood but it's because I see similarities in the lack of consideration for you, also because they are both AP.

It seems that something really causing a sticking point is a lack of trust in your own perceptions, am I right? Not knowing what's actually going on, vs what is an attachment issue in yourself? I'm sorry I'm not clear, I think the lack of trust in oneself is a strong difference between FA and DA and it's something that I have to slow down to consider. I HAVE experienced that deep confusion and conflictedness at times in earlier years, but I also always erred on the side of separating from the source relationship because the instability of confusion alone is too unsettling to me.

Maybe it's helpful to kind of assume both things are true... there is some incompatibility AND you have some attachment things going on to explore. The first is, what draws you to an anxiously insecure person? Obviously they don't create obvious abandonment for you. However, an anxious person abandons through their lack of healthy attunement to your needs because they are attuned to their needs and that will override their sensitivity to yours. So at the bottom of that might be, your own lack of attunement to your needs, which allows you to enter and remain in a dynamic that feels bad.

Also, for an outside perspective...what I'm reading here is not what I look for in a friend, on his side. I've never been labeled by my friends (in healthy relationships) as hypocritical for having conflicting views on a topic. I mean, is a person allowed to mull something over and evolve a perspective without obtaining a label for some kind of character defect? Not with a black and white thinker.... and I find that kind of dynamic pretty icky. Just that he would be critical like that. It's just one of the little things I pick up on...

Asking for something angrily? I can't imagine it from my friends. I can't imagine the general combative feel... we don't have conflict and it's not because we are avoiding conflict.... there is a much more generous environment and a live and let live, trusting, empathetic, and gentler vibe. There is almost a feel of couple bickering in this that supports the idea that he's not ok with being friends.

And that bit about people pleasing... that's done to meet one's own needs. It's not altruistic. It's an insecure behavior so it's selfish at its core. So it goes right along with not considering your needs. People pleasers sometimes get it right and sometimes get it wrong in terms of people pleasing, but it's not authentic, empathetic behavior. I can see where that could get confusing but I wouldn't expect genuine consideration from a people pleaser because essentially people pleasing is manipulation and that never feels good, not for any length of time anyway.

Thanks for helping me unpack this, I really appreciate it. Ironic because I don't normally make AP friends. I am far more comfortable in that anxious I want more attention then you want to give role.

Lack of trust in myself is a huge theme for me and something I am working on in therapy. I have BPD myself so part of me is worried this is just the disease talking. But if I look at the length of time this has been occurring, this isn't a black and white splitting someone as all good and all evil. This is someone who continues to make me uncomfortable and encroach on my boundaries. There is definitely some of that come here, go away that us FA and BPD are so famous for but it feels different. Maybe because I want to be close to him but then I feel fearful for actual valid reasons. 

I feel like a hypocrite because I am lonely and want to make friends. But that doesn't mean I need to be the type of friend he wants me to be. I wish he could be that close friend but it's just not really working? I feel guilty because I have been that person wanting more closeness then someone can give.

He has BPD. He was diagnosed last year. Now that I am thinking about it, that wasn't the first character defect he has thrown on me. he "lost respect for me" before about a situation. It's like he is always saying how much he looks up to me, etc I feel like I am on a pedestal. Maybe that is part of the reason I feel so uncomfortable when we spend time together.

Being a hypocrite is something I take steps to avoid, because I think everything has nuance so I want to be as accurate as possible in how I answer questions. It is actually a fear that if I make a statement ignoring some variables and then those variables happen then I am not being consistent in character and someone may look poorly on me. Hmmm... I wonder where that came from? That is something for me to explore.

You are onto someone with the word combative. I just realized one of the biggest things for me is he demands instead of asks. "Lets do X" instead of "Would you like to do X?". He just tells me how things are, which makes it harder for me to assert boundaries.

Not quite walking on eggshells but definitely avoiding conflict. I just realized I am afraid of bringing things up now because it feels like he won't actually understand, he will suppress the behaviors instead of trying to work on them and then he'll just resent me for being demanding.

Yes, I agree, this is what I'm saying at the end of my comment. Though it doesn't mean you shouldn't try first if the friendship is important to you.

Thank you all for the validation. It's starting to get easier to see that not everything is my fault all the time.

alexandra I think I am at the part of my journey where I am starting to accept that yeah I have triggers and issues but I can also walk away from people who because of those make me feel unsafe, even if they don't mean to. I don't have to show up to any relationship 100% healed. As you said, my other friends have issues, but their issues mesh with mine better. So my best friend is FA and leans DA and is flakey and can drop off the grid but I don't feel unsafe with her and I can understand and love her for who she is. I know she has boundary issues but I also know when I state a need she doesn't resent me for it.

AP fully admits he can't self sooth or self regulate, and he just doesn't seem to be doing any work to fix this. When he ended things with the ex he said he couldn't be alone but was being good about spreading it around different people.

Part of this is my own shadow though. That neediness I disown in myself.

No, everything is not your fault all the time. anne12 also shared a post somewhat recently about how it's not always us projecting... sometimes the person who gets under our skin is truly out of bounds. We don't have to eradicate any trace of fault or flaw in ourselves before we recognize the infraction and make a boundary to keep ourselves more comfortable, safe, and content.

And I agree 1000% about how you don't have to show up to all your relationships all healed. People can be flawed together and still find balance and safety. People can have some negative traits along with their positive traits and be peaceful and feel respected together. It's a matter of degree, and it's a matter of grace flowing both ways . Gentleness goes a long way too. Dear lord... he "lost respect for you?" 👀 He really feels entitled to all your time, your attention, your energy... and to label you and let you know also that he's LOST RESPECT FOR YOU? Who does he think he is?

I get that he has a personality disorder. And I also get that his personality disorder has disabled him from truly having respect for you until he does a little more work. He's acting out with you and you don't have to take it all in just because you share a diagnosis. It doesn't make you the same person. You know your challenges, you are self aware, probably a bit too hard on yourself. While you can look back and see your growth and that in times past you had more obstacles to healthy behavior, don't forget the growth!!! You aren't him, you aren't your diagnosis, you are YOU. You want friends, you want belonging, and you want to be considered, respected and nurtured by those friends. That's great, it's not needy. It's human and it's important.

If he isn't able to be considerate, respectful, and nurturing to you in the important ways you need ( consider your preferences too, your time, your limitations; respect your journey and your efforts to develop yourself even if you haven't got it all figured out, respect your FEELINGS and your humanity and your worthiness of grace, respect your No, respect you instead of LABEL you with words like hypocrite; nurture you by recognizing that you can be hurt, you have sensitivities and insecurities, you are lovable and worthy, you aren't just an appliance for self-validation and regulation... you need love and kindness and not being spoken to in angry tones or with disparaging words, you need appreciation not just for how you make him feel but for your unique qualities that make the world a little brighter, we all have them....)

As I was saying ... if he isn't able because of his own limitations to be courteous, respectful, and nurturing in the ways you need, that's not on you. You don't have to stick anything out with him if you've outgrown that kind of exchange.

As for eating at a restaurant you don't care for... that wouldn't make you a good friend. My friends and I have never once had to eat somewhere or something we didn't enjoy to prove friendship or be good to one another, it's not about that. There are plenty of choices available to find one that you both enjoy, but if that isn't his priority it's not on you to follow. You can be a great friend by suggesting he eat what he loves and then you can find an activity you both enjoy to do together, and have a nice time. Save the sacrifices for the important stuff like when a friend has a crisis in the middle of the night and they really need help. A healthy friendship won't require nor will it be strengthened by continual acquiescing. Although that's what a controlling person would like you to think....

Eh. Sometimes when the anxiety is too high and you need to regulate first, it's understandable to dodge anxiety triggers if there's no need to be around them. I assume you didn't have any meetings or reason you had to talk to her and were rudely avoiding her. I've dodged people I didn't want to see who I had no other business with, too.

I once saw my ex in a restaurant with his new girlfriend before I was over it. Somehow they didn't see us even though we were at the next table. I snuck out of there 🤣