FAs - can they be there for you? | Jeb Kinnison Attachment Type Forum

confused83
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FAs - can they be there for you? Dec 5, 2017 5:47:17 GMT via mobile

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Post by confused83 on Dec 5, 2017 5:47:17 GMT

Hi everyone! I’ve been reading these forums for a few months and this is my first post. I started dating an (undiagnosed) FA about 6 months ago. He’s 42 and I’m 34. He was pretty perfect until about a month in when I he told me he was going on vacation with a “female friend.” I’m not stupid. He booked the trip before we met. It sucked, but I accepted it...until he went on another one with another “female friend” two weeks later. He booked this before we met too. At first he tried very hard to get me to sleep with him, then I think he caught feelings and wanted to wait. He said “strings are attached now.” I couldn’t hold out anymore because this is normal in a relationship! We slept together before these trips. He got SO anxious and I could tell he was pulling back - walking in front of me, not trying to be physical or really kiss me anymore, being more secretive. He was a classic FA and I got him “Attached” and told him if he went on this second trip we were done. He read it on his trip and messaged me it was right about him, but he didn’t feel it showed him how to change. Since he went, I said we were done unless he came back immediately and he didn’t. This was so hard because we were so perfect for each other in our values, careers, interests, etc and I really liked him. He called me or texted me everyday and was a complete gentleman. We saw each other about 3 days a week, but I only slept over once. I do know he doesn’t let girls sleep over. Before we got to this point, he wouldn’t let me and he always called me before bed so i knew he was alone. I think he was still casually online dating though.

I’d say I used to be pretty secure but a little anxious, but did some work on myself over two years of purposely not dating and became very secure.

But I really saw a future with him and he wanted to talk after a couple of weeks of me breaking it off a with him. I told him he’s met my friends and family and I wanted to meet his, so he immediately (and i think reluctantly) introduced me to his best friends. I think they already knew who I was and I could tell he was really proud to be with me. They acted like I was the first girl they’d met in a long time. He stopped going on online dates. A few weeks later, he took me on a long weekend trip. He wanted to show me where he wanted to retire and see if I liked it. I thought FINALLY he’s working on his issues.

And then he got REALLY mean on our trip. Like picking apart every flaw I had. He even tried to starve me one day so I would “lose weight quicker.” I was PISSED! I got really angry and left the hotel room for a long time late the first night and when I came back, I told him I was getting a rental car and driving home alone if he didn’t treat me right. He was better and then the next week refused to see me because he was too busy exercising. I know I should’ve been more patient but I wasn’t angry and I didn’t want to see him for a few days after that. I thought he was probably with other girls. And then he was “too busy” to see me before we both left for a bunch of trips. I had a really, really hard thing happen to me at work and I told him I just needed to see him and asked to just sleep over when he was done with whatever he was doing. He said he couldn’t support me on this because he couldn’t believe this actually happened to me at work and we couldn’t have a sleep over until we got along better.

I hate to say it, but he made me back into Anxious and I said I couldn’t do it anymore in many many text messages and he shut down and quit talking to me or responding, which he has never done. I got myself together and apologized and said I loved him for the first time and wanted us to be together, but I couldn’t see a future with him if he keeps pushing me away and he needs therapy. No response. So I tried to get over him by getting casual with another guy I had met while he was on his second vacation with a random girl.

Two months later, my dad is on his death bed and I texted him Happy Birthday. Then he wanted to see me “as friends.” I agreed, but realized it was a bad idea and didn’t contact him to meet up. Then he wished me happy thanksgiving and asked about my dad and then happy birthday a few weeks later. So I said I would see him when I got back to town. I’ve texted some about my dad and said I wished he could meet him. No response for days. I think he shut down.

I don’t know if I can ever forgive him if we are together in the future and he isn’t here for me right now. He knows this is the hardest thing I’ve ever gone through. Do FAs Just shut down when you really need them? Should I just tell him how I feel when I do see him or just be patient knowing if he doesn’t do this, I’ll never get over it? I know I won’t get over it and if he can’t get it together for this, how could I expect him to ever be there for me if we are married with kids?

scheme00
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FAs - can they be there for you? Dec 5, 2017 18:18:02 GMT via mobile neosporin likes this

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Post by scheme00 on Dec 5, 2017 18:18:02 GMT

Wow this brings back memories! My (female) Avoidant ex used to take the same trips with male "friends." I'm sure you are hurting. He sounds avoidant, may be dismissive though, sounds a little like my DA ex girlfriend. Also, I can easily tell you are AP and not secure. You can not tell people what to do. You are making him feel like he is losing his freedom and nobody wants that. I know it sucks to hear that he has ChOsEN to go on these trips but you can not give someone an ultimatum, especially an avoidant. It sounds like your attachment styles are off from having a good relationship so you should cut your losses right now while you're not completely in love with him. I can tell you from experience that the more effort you will continue to make and the more you go through the push pull the harder it is to walk away. You will be in a mental hell all the time waiting for the small bits of attention and time he gives you. It will never be enough which is why your attraction "seems" so powerful.

Last Edit: Dec 5, 2017 18:30:28 GMT by scheme00

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FAs - can they be there for you? Dec 5, 2017 19:51:52 GMT neosporin likes this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 19:51:52 GMT

Hello and welcome Confused.

It might help to know you're not alone - this behaviour is baffling and so incredibly hurtful even if not intentionally.

He's damaged - you cannot fix him and staying with him to build resentment and pain within yourself is not going to help either of you. Most avoidants will only be there when it suits them - the total shut off from feelings includes compassion and empathy. Asking yourself whether you'd want to be with someone who did this to you once you had kids, got sick etc etc - this was certainly the trigger for my ending of a five year relationship. After a major family crisis with one of my children, my then boyfriend couldn't even listen to my concerns he was so tied up in his own issues. It was the only time in all those years I had asked for support and he was just not there - nor for my house move, new job ad infinitum. He would re surface at intervals - still does although now I have disengaged and don't give him any of my head space.

It would be a miserable life for you - please value yourself and move on.

confused83
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FAs - can they be there for you? Dec 7, 2017 1:47:40 GMT via mobile

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Post by confused83 on Dec 7, 2017 1:47:40 GMT

Thank you for the responses! It’s helpful in reminding me what I’ve already figured out - we aren’t right for each other.

He has mentioned to me before that “giving an ultimatum” doesn’t work and I should just do it. He’s right. I guess for me, I’d just like my partner to communicate what they want or don’t like so I can make a decision on what to do. I do understand that he’s broken and I can’t fix him. He has to do that for himself. I never tried, but I did give him some resources on how to change because he said he wanted to.

Anytime I tried to end it with him, he would always say he was “so depressed” or beg me to be friends. One time he told me that only I agreed to a break and he didn’t agree to it, so we weren’t broken up. I think I’ve read other people post that their FAs did the same thing. I was really done when I tried to break it off, but then he’d reel me back in.

When we did finally end, I feel like I did act super anxious as a defense mechanism (probably like his avoidant defense mechanisms), so he would be the one to end it because he always has to be in control of everything. This was when I blew his phone up with text messages and I told him to just dump me. I knew he wanted control over it and my heart couldn’t take it anymore.

You’re right, I was anxious at one time I think because of my relationship with my mother. She acted just like him towards me, but not my brother. My father always was secure with me. When I got older, my mother changed and with our relationship changing, it really helped me to bury that need for love coming from rejection. I know it still affects me when someone treats me like that and I want to run away from them but can’t stop thinking about them. I think I was really trying this time to be patient rather than run away, but some of the angry tendencies from that would still surface. Maybe I’m still figuring it out?

I do really love him though. I know he will never be what I need and this forum is helping me accept that we can’t be together. I’ve dated a couple of other guys since him and even when they were avoidant, I really didn’t care for more than a few days and just moved on. So I think there is hope for me.

When my dad was sent to ICU, the admitting doctor told my cousin that he has 4 children. He said when they are mean and hateful, he talks to them about the patients he sees in the ICU. He said there are so many people who are there all alone and then he sees patients like my dad who are surrounded by people who love him and advocate for him even though he may never know what we did. He said he asks his kids if they want to be the patients who have pushed everyone away and are alone or if they want to be surrounded by love in their time of need.

I think that really impacted me. I knew this guy would never be there for me when I needed him, but I’ve felt sorry for him not to know that kind of love. I think that was part of why I reached out. Maybe I also had a little glimmer of hope he realized what he had lost. I remembered how he never really wanted to let go of me and how I saw the fear and anxiety in him when we got close. It made me so sad to think of this person I truly love not knowing what love and safety really are. It must be horrible.

sara
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FAs - can they be there for you? Dec 8, 2017 4:10:20 GMT persephone likes this

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Post by sara on Dec 8, 2017 4:10:20 GMT

Hi confused83

First of all, I am so sorry about your dad and I want to send you a lot of strength! Sick parents and children are the worst thing to go through and obviously you are expecting your partner to be there for you. Listen to the people here, I am a newbie as well, but I have learned so much in this forum, and what I can tell you is, keep on reading, it is scary how similar all the stories are because they are accurate.

They are so charming and awesome at the beginning. You think you have met your soulmate because you are SO compatible. (This is still don't get and I ask myself if it is because they mirror you somehow because they have no self-identity?!?) And then, as soon as it gets too close, they totally shift and yes, picking on your flaws and becoming incredibly mean is a big pattern of the push and pull. They can be SO cruel. Mine started to belittle my mental scars... an absolute No GO, but guess what?! We APs know it's not right, and yet we choose to stay because that's our pattern. That is why I think you are definitely AP too because every secure person would have left after an insult because they really value themselves. I have my fair share of a very bad toxic FA-AP relationship as well, and I am telling you very openly, no matter how much you love him, he is never going to fulfill your needs, which is going to leave you unsatisfied and unhappy forever. It sound very harsh, but I had to learn the hard way as well and I am glad my relationship only lasted 7 months, I still consciously protected my heart and didn't entirely fall for him because I just knew deep down, my gut feeling was yelling at me daily, do not go there and just RUN! The pattern is truly always the same.

What I would truly recommend is, go to therapy, start to dig in your past and do the re-parenting with your therapist and mostly, practice self-love. If you have enough self-love, you are not even going to attract dysfunctional people like that anymore. All of us, YOU deserve so much better. You deserve someone who loves you truly, gives you affection, wants you close, who is there for you, who is supportive, someone who doesn't spike your anxiety... and NOT someone who makes you feel insecure, pushes you away on a regular basis, and makes you feel worthless. You can get through this. Give yourself time to heal.

neosporin
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FAs - can they be there for you? Dec 12, 2017 4:50:14 GMT

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Post by neosporin on Dec 12, 2017 4:50:14 GMT

Confused,

Jeez! I find my jaw dropping at practically every topic in this section! I almost want to ask everyone if we've dated the exact same person. It's honestly a little scary!

When you mentioned that he withheld sex from you because you were already too close... same happened with me. Usually he had mostly casual sexual relationships but we had connected and gotten too close for his comfort before that happened, so he refused sex because "we're too attached". Wow.

Anyway, let me tell you now - FA CANNOT BE THERE FOR YOU IN YOUR TIME OF NEED. Not in any meaningful way that a Secure or Anxious type may expect. Truly being there for someone means they're opening themselves up for attachment, for expectations (current and future), opening themselves up to your emotions and help absorb some of the hurt. That's what friends do, that's what relationships are. Commitment and support. It is the antithesis of what a FA is comfortable with or capable of. Please do not expect much of anything from them in this arena other than maybe an "I'm sorry".

An anecdote - my mom died and he went cold almost immediately. He said he wanted to leave me be for a bit because he was worried about my mental health and stress level. Think about that. Think about the level of fear and self-preservation someone would have to have to think the correct thing to do when a friend loses a family member is to abandon said friend? That is primal FEAR through and through, that thought process. You reaching out when your dad was ill was a threat to him. It's really bewildering and hurtful but that's how many of them think. Your pain is not a factor. Their primary concern is protecting themselves from all perceived threats of closeness or expectation. Many don't realize it but they are acting out the exact same pattern their parents probably inflicted on them... when they showed vulnerability or emotion, they likely didn't get an adequate response. They will repeat the same pattern with people they're supposed to love.

Don't try to stick this out. I'm sorry but you're in for a long road and it will never be over. You said you felt your attachment going from Secure to Anxious. That is what happens, unfortunately. I was Secure and went very Anxious. I can imagine some people who stick it out for years irreparably damage their self-esteem, it can take years to undo, if ever. You cannot control him but you can control the pain you're putting yourself through.

Last Edit: Dec 12, 2017 4:55:46 GMT by neosporin