|
|
Post by serene13 on Dec 11, 2017 15:56:12 GMT
"For whatever reason, this made him defensive, so he more or less insulted the heck out of me at the dinner table. He told me that he could be committed, but only for the right person (ie: I wasn't the right person) and he more or less said all his crappy running away behavior since we met was because I wasn't "the one" and then when "the one" came along he would behave better. I got furiously angry at that point and got up and walked out of the restaurant." yasmin - this is such a classic statement. They can change - but will only do it when necessary - ie. for the "one" or "right person". But until then, they can continue to be a jerk. Like all the work they would need to do would be able to get done and keep this 'right' person? That is the dilemma they face, but most often don't know it  . As a disclaimer - would like to say that this is probably not what most DAs/FAs are thinking inside - that they are happy with acting badly - but it is what they will say out loud. My guess is to distance. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Dec 11, 2017 17:21:34 GMT
I have a curious question, do the dismissive avoidants ever truly fall in love / feel real love with anyone!? Do they just go from one relationship to the next without feeling or falling in true love. I can only speak for myself, but yes I do, but it takes much longer than other attachment types. 3 or 4 months is just not enough time to really know a person enough to call it love. For me, it's a year plus, but I am sure other DAs take longer. I think there is a misconception that DAs do not feel, because we don't show it it as openly as others or are able to break away if the person isn't right. The anxious/avoidant trap is real. The anxious has a hole that the avoidant can never fill and the avoidant will never have enough space to breathe and grow. I think that a secure that becomes anxious if paired with an avoidant had anxious tendencies from the beginning. My current relationship works, because he is secure and has remained secure. My push/pull has improved and I do love him. I would give him the shirt off my back. I don't have to reassure him very day that I love him. He knows and that's enough. I do believe my ex did love me....when he broke up with me he said he initially did not think our relationship would become anything serious, but he grew to love me. I really, really tried to give him space and let him come and go as suited him....but my attachment system was always going crazy and my abandonment story kept feeding me lies that I was not able to overcome. Unfortunately, you don't become secure because you will yourself to be....you have to change your experiences and that takes time. I still love my ex...would take a bullet for that man....but I know that I am still AP with him, so it is best to find someone who doesn't trigger me as much ( and vice verse). |
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Dec 11, 2017 17:55:43 GMT
I have a curious question, do the dismissive avoidants ever truly fall in love / feel real love with anyone!? Do they just go from one relationship to the next without feeling or falling in true love. I can only speak for myself, but yes I do, but it takes much longer than other attachment types. 3 or 4 months is just not enough time to really know a person enough to call it love. For me, it's a year plus, but I am sure other DAs take longer. I think there is a misconception that DAs do not feel, because we don't show it it as openly as others or are able to break away if the person isn't right. The anxious/avoidant trap is real. The anxious has a hole that the avoidant can never fill and the avoidant will never have enough space to breathe and grow. I think that a secure that becomes anxious if paired with an avoidant had anxious tendencies from the beginning. My current relationship works, because he is secure and has remained secure. My push/pull has improved and I do love him. I would give him the shirt off my back. I don't have to reassure him very day that I love him. He knows and that's enough. Mary, do you think part of the reason for your successful relationship is because you know you have avoidant tendencies? If you didn't know / acknowledge that would you have perceived the relationship differently? |
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Dec 11, 2017 17:58:32 GMT
"For whatever reason, this made him defensive, so he more or less insulted the heck out of me at the dinner table. He told me that he could be committed, but only for the right person (ie: I wasn't the right person) and he more or less said all his crappy running away behavior since we met was because I wasn't "the one" and then when "the one" came along he would behave better. I got furiously angry at that point and got up and walked out of the restaurant." yasmin - this is such a classic statement. They can change - but will only do it when necessary - ie. for the "one" or "right person". But until then, they can continue to be a jerk. Like all the work they would need to do would be able to get done and keep this 'right' person? That is the dilemma they face, but most often don't know it . As a disclaimer - would like to say that this is probably not what most DAs/FAs are thinking inside - that they are happy with acting badly - but it is what they will say out loud. My guess is to distance. He wasn't happy about behaving badly, he actually got upset quite a few times when he realised he'd hurt people, but I honestly don't think he really knew why they were hurt. I think he's fabricated a system of rules and stories he tells himself so he doesn't need to feel guilty but it doesn't quite work because he feels guilty anyway. What I think though is that there's a difference between pulling away and being a jerk. If you're being a jerk, then whether someone is "the one" or not they deserve better. I've dated a lot of people who weren't "the one" and it didn't mean I treated them badly - I just ended the relationship politely and with compassion  |
|
|
|
Post by serene13 on Dec 11, 2017 18:14:31 GMT
"For whatever reason, this made him defensive, so he more or less insulted the heck out of me at the dinner table. He told me that he could be committed, but only for the right person (ie: I wasn't the right person) and he more or less said all his crappy running away behavior since we met was because I wasn't "the one" and then when "the one" came along he would behave better. I got furiously angry at that point and got up and walked out of the restaurant." yasmin - this is such a classic statement. They can change - but will only do it when necessary - ie. for the "one" or "right person". But until then, they can continue to be a jerk. Like all the work they would need to do would be able to get done and keep this 'right' person? That is the dilemma they face, but most often don't know it . As a disclaimer - would like to say that this is probably not what most DAs/FAs are thinking inside - that they are happy with acting badly - but it is what they will say out loud. My guess is to distance. He wasn't happy about behaving badly, he actually got upset quite a few times when he realised he'd hurt people, but I honestly don't think he really knew why they were hurt. I think he's fabricated a system of rules and stories he tells himself so he doesn't need to feel guilty but it doesn't quite work because he feels guilty anyway. What I think though is that there's a difference between pulling away and being a jerk. If you're being a jerk, then whether someone is "the one" or not they deserve better. I've dated a lot of people who weren't "the one" and it didn't mean I treated them badly - I just ended the relationship politely and with compassion I agree there is absolutely a difference and I believe they do too - until the moment occurs that triggers and it's as if an internal script takes over - at least that was how it felt to me. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 18:44:15 GMT
Hi Mary, thank you for your comment. I was Originally an anxious type but with years and years of therapy and AA meetings and sobriety I have become a secure. It is extremely possible to go back and forth depending on the relationship with each person we interact with. My ex is definitely DA and in his own way definitely loves me but, it might not be enough for me. I am the type of person who can love unconditionally and accept a person as is but, big but, I have needs too and they must be met. I go back and forth with feeling sad for him and then trying to tell him he is responsible for his behavior. I won’t tolerate being disrespected. Now, that I have told him I will not allow my feelings to get strong for him again and that I will protect my heart and myself — he is initiating the phone calls. I’ve known Jim for 10 years and we struggle with control and he has done the push pull and when I advise him of that behavior he doesn’t seem to see it. At this time I will totally focus on myself and my well being. I will set boundaries and make sure I stick to them. I am focusing on continuing to make myself happy. I’ve always put myself first but when things get so good between me and my DA and I express my feelings for him, he pushes/distances. But I let him and I just tell him well, maybe we shouldn’t see each other and I will backmoff and distance as well. Guess what happens,, he comes to me. Balance, boundaries and evaluate what works and what doesn’t. I can always end it and move forward in my life. No one has that power that can take away my confidence and my happiness and my life. I control it.
Thank you all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 22:38:13 GMT
I can only speak for myself, but yes I do, but it takes much longer than other attachment types. 3 or 4 months is just not enough time to really know a person enough to call it love. For me, it's a year plus, but I am sure other DAs take longer. I think there is a misconception that DAs do not feel, because we don't show it it as openly as others or are able to break away if the person isn't right. The anxious/avoidant trap is real. The anxious has a hole that the avoidant can never fill and the avoidant will never have enough space to breathe and grow. I think that a secure that becomes anxious if paired with an avoidant had anxious tendencies from the beginning. My current relationship works, because he is secure and has remained secure. My push/pull has improved and I do love him. I would give him the shirt off my back. I don't have to reassure him very day that I love him. He knows and that's enough. Mary, do you think part of the reason for your successful relationship is because you know you have avoidant tendencies? If you didn't know / acknowledge that would you have perceived the relationship differently? I think the main reason is that he is the right match for me. We sync on so many levels that the avoidance part is such a small part of the picture. I don't think I would have perceived the relationship differently. I still don't need a relationship and maybe, don't even want one, but I want HIM to remain in my life. I know that means I have to work at it and have less knee jerk reactions. My awareness has helped me realize what I need to work on and it has tempered over time. He doesn't react to my avoidance the way others have in the past and that helps me to see things more clearly. I do think though that my current relationship would still work even if I wasn't aware. He makes me want to be better and his natural state quiets my inner turmoil. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Dec 11, 2017 22:54:09 GMT
Mary, do you think part of the reason for your successful relationship is because you know you have avoidant tendencies? If you didn't know / acknowledge that would you have perceived the relationship differently? I think the main reason is that he is the right match for me. We sync on so many levels that the avoidance part is such a small part of the picture. I don't think I would have perceived the relationship differently. I still don't need a relationship and maybe, don't even want one, but I want HIM to remain in my life. I know that means I have to work at it and have less knee jerk reactions. My awareness has helped me realize what I need to work on and it has tempered over time. He doesn't react to my avoidance the way others have in the past and that helps me to see things more clearly. I do think though that my current relationship would still work even if I wasn't aware. He makes me want to be better and his natural state quiets my inner turmoil. That is awesome to hear Mary. I am glad you found someone who "gets you". And you sound extremely content. I will admit....there is this ever so small (ok it is about the size of the Grand Canyon but who is measuring) part of me that thinks..."if I can just mimic what your guy does....then I could possibly get my ex back". Sigh....but that just perpetuates the lie that the success or failure of the relationship rests completely on my shoulders. I learned that from the 2 narcissists and old habits die hard. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 6:32:25 GMT
I think the main reason is that he is the right match for me. We sync on so many levels that the avoidance part is such a small part of the picture. I don't think I would have perceived the relationship differently. I still don't need a relationship and maybe, don't even want one, but I want HIM to remain in my life. I know that means I have to work at it and have less knee jerk reactions. My awareness has helped me realize what I need to work on and it has tempered over time. He doesn't react to my avoidance the way others have in the past and that helps me to see things more clearly. I do think though that my current relationship would still work even if I wasn't aware. He makes me want to be better and his natural state quiets my inner turmoil. That is awesome to hear Mary. I am glad you found someone who "gets you". And you sound extremely content. I will admit....there is this ever so small (ok it is about the size of the Grand Canyon but who is measuring) part of me that thinks..."if I can just mimic what your guy does....then I could possibly get my ex back". Sigh....but that just perpetuates the lie that the success or failure of the relationship rests completely on my shoulders. I learned that from the 2 narcissists and old habits die hard. We all now the success or failure of a relationship takes two, but I think we all have that nagging voice in our head "if only I did or didn't do...". Sometimes I think people miss their exes more than they actually want them back. It's easy for me to separate the 2, but for many they are intertwined. When the attachment issue becomes bigger than the relationship, it's possibly not the right relationship. I hope it becomes easier for you in time. |
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Dec 12, 2017 9:04:44 GMT
Maybe there's an element of personal responsibility and acting in your own interests here though Mary. It seems like you met this guy and spent enough time with him to get to know him a little. The FA I was dating had a tendency to behave in ways that I think probably made what your describing impossible. If he meets a woman he likes, he'd immediately sleeps with or go on a date with an old girlfriend at the same time, then makes himself unavailable for time / dates with the woman he likes. This kind of behavior is going to make even a secure person walk in the other direction because there's nothing to work with. It seems like you've allowed yourself to actually spend time with someone, even if there's been some distancing it doesn't sound like you behaved in catastrophically destructive ways. I have a very close friend who's avoidant and she ended up married to her husband, but then he's learned to adapt to her also and they are happy too. You sound really happy, that's lovely |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Dec 12, 2017 13:29:12 GMT
That is awesome to hear Mary. I am glad you found someone who "gets you". And you sound extremely content. I will admit....there is this ever so small (ok it is about the size of the Grand Canyon but who is measuring) part of me that thinks..."if I can just mimic what your guy does....then I could possibly get my ex back". Sigh....but that just perpetuates the lie that the success or failure of the relationship rests completely on my shoulders. I learned that from the 2 narcissists and old habits die hard. We all now the success or failure of a relationship takes two, but I think we all have that nagging voice in our head "if only I did or didn't do...". Sometimes I think people miss their exes more than they actually want them back. It's easy for me to separate the 2, but for many they are intertwined. When the attachment issue becomes bigger than the relationship, it's possibly not the right relationship. I hope it becomes easier for you in time. Hey Mary....I do understand where you are coming from.....but I do truly love my ex and not just the thought of him. He was honestly the most accepting man I have ever been with but he just did not verbalize his needs and yes...that triggered my AP. I accept the fact that the relationship was not solely on my shoulders...but I do really miss him. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 15:16:12 GMT
We all now the success or failure of a relationship takes two, but I think we all have that nagging voice in our head "if only I did or didn't do...". Sometimes I think people miss their exes more than they actually want them back. It's easy for me to separate the 2, but for many they are intertwined. When the attachment issue becomes bigger than the relationship, it's possibly not the right relationship. I hope it becomes easier for you in time. Hey Mary....I do understand where you are coming from.....but I do truly love my ex and not just the thought of him. He was honestly the most accepting man I have ever been with but he just did not verbalize his needs and yes...that triggered my AP. I accept the fact that the relationship was not solely on my shoulders...but I do really miss him. I am curious what you mean by he didn't verbalize his needs? |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Dec 12, 2017 15:46:49 GMT
Hey Mary....I do understand where you are coming from.....but I do truly love my ex and not just the thought of him. He was honestly the most accepting man I have ever been with but he just did not verbalize his needs and yes...that triggered my AP. I accept the fact that the relationship was not solely on my shoulders...but I do really miss him. I am curious what you mean by he didn't verbalize his needs? Sure...fair enough question. Oftentimes I would only know that I crossed a perceived boundary once it actually happened. As someone who pays close attention to my partner, knowing what he needs as far as time apart etc is helpful. But he would not share that with me. In sometimes felt like I was walking in a field with invisible wires that I would not know about until I got stuck in one. I tried to broach the subject once (very delicately....using I words) but he was very defensive....so I just dropped it and went back to trying to figure out his needs via articles and sites like this one. But it isn't possible to capture all the nuances of a person via articles. Does that help? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 16:42:17 GMT
I am curious what you mean by he didn't verbalize his needs? Sure...fair enough question. Oftentimes I would only know that I crossed a perceived boundary once it actually happened. As someone who pays close attention to my partner, knowing what he needs as far as time apart etc is helpful. But he would not share that with me. In sometimes felt like I was walking in a field with invisible wires that I would not know about until I got stuck in one. I tried to broach the subject once (very delicately....using I words) but he was very defensive....so I just dropped it and went back to trying to figure out his needs via articles and sites like this one. But it isn't possible to capture all the nuances of a person via articles. Does that help? Sometimes we don't know what our boundaries are until they are crossed. I have struggled with this as well. I don't know if he was unwilling to share it or just didn't know. I guess I see boundaries and needs as different. The needs of a DA are small, the boundaries are big. I think APs are the opposite which creates turmoil. It does sound like there was some really good stuff in your relationship, which is very hard to let go of. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Dec 12, 2017 17:00:59 GMT
Sure...fair enough question. Oftentimes I would only know that I crossed a perceived boundary once it actually happened. As someone who pays close attention to my partner, knowing what he needs as far as time apart etc is helpful. But he would not share that with me. In sometimes felt like I was walking in a field with invisible wires that I would not know about until I got stuck in one. I tried to broach the subject once (very delicately....using I words) but he was very defensive....so I just dropped it and went back to trying to figure out his needs via articles and sites like this one. But it isn't possible to capture all the nuances of a person via articles. Does that help? Sometimes we don't know what our boundaries are until they are crossed. I have struggled with this as well. I don't know if he was unwilling to share it or just didn't know. I guess I see boundaries and needs as different. The needs of a DA are small, the boundaries are big. I think APs are the opposite which creates turmoil. It does sound like there was some really good stuff in your relationship, which is very hard to let go of. Oh...I like how you put that Mary. And it completely makes sense why he baffled me so much....because my boundaries were small...so I kept trying to meet what I perceived to be his needs and did not really give enough attention to his boundaries. There was a lot of good in that relationship....he is a really good man with a lot to offer. |
|
.
