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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 14:52:08 GMT
Yasmin, I was wondering while reading your post, how it was possible for you as a secure person to get into a relationship with an FA? I hope you don't mind my question and hopefully I am going to be able to state it the proper way. So for me as an AP it is 'obvious' that I am picking an FA or DA (I always did) because my self-worth is not as developed as the one of a secure person. I am just discovering my entire pattern throughout all my relationships and slowly breaking the cycle and increasing my self-worth. But I am still stunned and sad that I, as an AP and many other APs, stay waaay too long in relationships where we get treated very poorly, badly, disrespectfully, where secures would smell the crap immediately and call the person out or end the relationship right away, just to prevent their self-worth. So, how was it possible for you, after having great relationships to pick an FA? I am very curious about your response. I'm grateful to Yasmin for sharing her painful experience, and I have my own answer to this question. I think I'm secure, and being secure means we see the good and the flaws in everyone, understanding that we are all works in progress and we try to apply all of those principles about what loving someone means. So we try very hard to keep loving and caring for the DAs, seeing their good qualities and trying to love them, while forgiving and understanding their "mistakes" and "flaws" (they are negatives to us, but actually normal behavior for DAs, so I put these loaded terms in quotes). One man's meat is another's poison indeed. I can imagine another DA who only needs to talk to or see her partner at most once a month would be perfect for him. We are also attracted in a subliminal way - I realize recently that ex DA resembles the older version of one actor I had a crush on!  So we suffered and kept suffering, not knowing when to pull the plug. I have female friends who simply say "No thanks!" at the first sign of trouble, of mismatch, in my case on the second date when he declared long distance relationships are the ideal, etc...but I tell myself to be patient with him, let's give it time to mature, to see if it might work out with give and take, etc.... I feel that what I perceive to be positives in myself actually sets me up for these unhealthy relationships. I need to change myself to be more like the decisive friends I know. It is an internal battle, because I don't want to lose the me who is ready to accept flawed relationships....  |
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Post by yasmin on Dec 14, 2017 16:00:03 GMT
That's a really good point. You have to take people as they are and everyone had issues in one way or another. I do find it hard to dismiss people once I already care about them / if I believe they're a generally good person.
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Post by valentin3 on Dec 21, 2017 1:31:35 GMT
It might help if I also mention my last conversation with him, because I think he was actually being really honest and while the conversation was totally crazy-making and insane, he was actually, with hindsight, giving me a lot of truth. What happened was it was our first "date" as a couple after almost a year of getting it together. We were very close, very intimate and it was a really happy night. We were holding hands and laughing and we were kissing in the street. Then in the middle of the kiss he starts saying "oh but the problem is this is just so intense. With you it feels so intense and then I want you so badly but then as soon as it happens I want to get away". I didn't know about FA's so I had no clue what he was talking about (to me intense is good). So I questioned him about what he meant and why he was upset. He said to me.... 1) I freaked him out because he felt like he wasn't in control 2) I freaked him out because he felt like I had "the power" and he lost his around me 3) I freaked him out because I had boundaries and he wasn't used to that 4) He was intimate with me emotionally in a way he said he never had been with anyone, including his family 5) He had a dynamic with me that was like nothing he'd ever experienced before It was like he was telling me that everything about me put him into fear mode. All the things I would consider as a positive thing, he was viewing as something to run away from. We had the most intimate conversation we have ever had that night, and he laid himself bare to me. Explaining how insecure he was, explaining how he felt surprised anyone wanted him, explaining how he was lonely inside and that he'd been depressed and all this. Up until then he'd always come across as a totally together guy, so this felt like a huge confessional. For whatever reason, this made him defensive, so he more or less insulted the heck out of me at the dinner table. He told me that he could be committed, but only for the right person (ie: I wasn't the right person) and he more or less said all his crappy running away behavior since we met was because I wasn't "the one" and then when "the one" came along he would behave better. I got furiously angry at that point and got up and walked out of the restaurant. then I kind of froze and walked back in and said to him that I knew he was trying to get me to storm out so he could avoid the intimacy and that I wasn't going to do it. I was seriously rattled emotionally and I told him I didn't want to see him anymore. He started to cry at the table. Not loudly, but I could see his eyes filled with tears. We ended up leaving and he hasn't spoken to me since. the whole night was really a textbook FA moment, but it left me TOTALLY rattled. I'd gone out that night feeling so in love and so excited and like this was the beginning of a life together and instead I wind up insulted and ghosted. This kind of behaviour is just not normal, but it still hurts no matter how secure you are. Wow yasmin, what you describe was almost exactly how it became for me in the last month we were together only was that it happen over the course of a longer time so I got prolonged insults as well. It was extremely hurtful for a period of time but I just kept kicking my ass to move on but sometime I really wonder what happen to them after all these... |
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Post by scarlett on Jan 2, 2018 0:04:10 GMT
I was just sitting with my counselor and we spoke of this exact thing. I am grieving the loss of the relationship of 18 months with my ex DA. I asked her if he was grieving me, if he was missing me. This answer, her answer is specific to my person, but she said this; "He cannot bond. He was able to show up for those moments he spent with you for only a specific amount of time and when he was done, he was done and had to leave the date. He would have stayed with you for as long as you would have put up with his push-pull behaviors. He came to you for sex and intimacy, but all on his own terms. He cannot love. Love is dangerous to him." Excellent. That is exactly what my therapist says. "He is severely limited." It's hard not to take it personally, but she's constantly also saying to me, "This has nothing to do with his love for you. He is just incapable of getting attached, letting go...." It's so hard because we get different messages from them, but actions always speak louder than words with these people, I believe. |
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Post by scarlett on Jan 2, 2018 16:51:44 GMT
I can only speak for myself, but yes I do, but it takes much longer than other attachment types. 3 or 4 months is just not enough time to really know a person enough to call it love. For me, it's a year plus, but I am sure other DAs take longer. I think there is a misconception that DAs do not feel, because we don't show it it as openly as others or are able to break away if the person isn't right. The anxious/avoidant trap is real. The anxious has a hole that the avoidant can never fill and the avoidant will never have enough space to breathe and grow. I think that a secure that becomes anxious if paired with an avoidant had anxious tendencies from the beginning. My current relationship works, because he is secure and has remained secure. My push/pull has improved and I do love him. I would give him the shirt off my back. I don't have to reassure him very day that I love him. He knows and that's enough. I do believe my ex did love me....when he broke up with me he said he initially did not think our relationship would become anything serious, but he grew to love me. I really, really tried to give him space and let him come and go as suited him....but my attachment system was always going crazy and my abandonment story kept feeding me lies that I was not able to overcome. Unfortunately, you don't become secure because you will yourself to be....you have to change your experiences and that takes time. I still love my ex...would take a bullet for that man....but I know that I am still AP with him, so it is best to find someone who doesn't trigger me as much ( and vice verse). Agreed. Mine do too, but I had to break it off with him. I was just constantly feeling insecure, lost and without any power. He controlled when we would see one another, everything. Plus, we were long distance (which I now understand is something they like). It's hard, but you can't really win. |
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Post by stellar1969 on Jan 2, 2018 17:11:50 GMT
Love. Such a simple word for such simple expression of desire, affection, care and devotion.
I, as an AP, barely know what this action verb is. My DA with his limited access to emotions may not have ever felt love. Real love.
I doubt I have ever felt it either. Me, who was married for 11 years and partnered with a different man for nearly 5.
I believe what most of us believe is love, is lust, desire, attachment.
With my latest relationship, my DA, I saw myself loving him more than I have ever seen myself love another person. I was kind when he had to cancel or reschedule a date. I was accepting when he said he would call and I would be excitedly waiting for that call that never came.
I "loved" him so much, I forgot to "love" myself.
I doubt most human beings ever are selfless enough to love another person in a romantic way. To me, that love is more about what we can get or give to the other person.
Shouldn't love be more about being kind, forgiving and understanding?
I don't know. I haven't felt it yet and I am 48.
How I felt while with my DA felt more like love than I have ever felt, but I am doubting that reality as I remember his actions and his words that sometimes hurt me so much.
Its been three months today that I found my voice and asked him to show up for us. I never heard from him again.
Disappearing from someone when they need basic humanity from you is not love.
Not responding to a text that is just checking in is not love.
Cutting someone out of your life because they asked for one thing and they have been giving you many things for 18 months, in NOT love.
I am certain that my DA cared about me. He showed up in the way he knew how. He left when he needed to and my needs were only okay when they were in line with his.
He did not love me and I highly doubt he will ever love anyone in a real way, including himself.
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Post by DAgirl on Jan 9, 2018 14:19:54 GMT
I have a curious question, do the dismissive avoidants ever truly fall in love / feel real love with anyone!? Do they just go from one relationship to the next without feeling or falling in true love. I am new to the forum, so I don't know all the lingo or acronyms here except "DA," which I am. I most certainly can fall in love, but it would probably only be with someone like me or similar... or they can be secure, as long as I never feel pressured into anything. They would have to express their concerns about me in way of "how they feel," rather than making me feel as though I need to change or do something to fix "their problem" and make them feel better. I am willing to fix a problem if I love them, as long as they give me the freedom to make that decision on my own. Then again, I am pretty self-aware and know that I am the one who is "not normal." So I don't speak for everyone... I wouldn't stay in anything too long anyway with someone I didn't grown to love; probably just a couple of months or less and that is pushing it... so it's not like it would be difficult to figure out. As a DA, I become smothered VERY quickly and it is unbearable. I want that person gone as quickly as possible. When I do love someone, I am extremely loving/giving; I just struggle with expressing emotions verbally. It feels cheesy... fake... and ridiculous to say out loud. I was not raised that way, and I'm not about to start now. I do know others (friends, etc.) need validation from me, and usually I do this by consuming a lot of alcohol so I feel comfortable enough to express my feelings toward them. My friends understand me and we laugh about it. Boyfriends, not so much. LOL |
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