cate
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Post by cate on Dec 12, 2017 3:52:45 GMT
I was struck by what Mary posted in another thread about DA’s being villanized and since we have some DA’s on this board - I think this is a great opportunity to learn from each other.
Mary mentioned that DA’s and AP’s are two sides of the same coin. I believe this. I can be avoidant in some relationships (mostly my family because they cause a lot of stress and drama in my life at times) but I shifted to AP with my ex. And I’m very secure in my friendships. Go figure.
So so my question is - if you’re a DA - are you that way with everyone in your life? Are you avoidant with your friends and family? Or is it just the scope of the romantic relationship that triggers that? it seems like DA’s ‘can’t feel’ or ‘can’t connect’ but perhaps this is an oversimplification?
My ex was a very loyal friend. But there was a certain aspect of avoidance in them from my POV but I realize I’m bias. He’s also close to a family member but distant from others so there seems to be a fluidity. I’m curious about whether DA’s can have close relationships and/or friendships without the ‘pressures’ of romantic intimacy.
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Post by yasmin on Dec 12, 2017 9:16:55 GMT
I'm not a DA but when I dated an FA he was able to be very intimate with me when we were "just friends". During the period we were "just friends" he was able to be all sorts of affectionate and consistent and supportive towards me and I felt an almost fatherly affection from him. He started to call me by the same pet names he uses on his kids. In a friendship role, I was non-threatening.
All that said, it was obvious we weren't "just friends" because when we were together we would hold hands and cuddle together and he'd kiss my forehead and stroke my hair. It was more than friends, but he felt more comfortable saying it wasn't.
If we added in anything romantic to the mix, he couldn't be emotionally intimate with me anymore. So he could handle being emotionally intimate with me OR physically but not both together. If he tried to be romantic he would start the push-pull and picking fights and vanishing.
He was much nicer in friend mode than boyfriend mode!
He is incredibly intimate towards his children, such a wonderful Father and so close to them, but he doesn't have close friends, close relationships of any kind in his life and doesn't really talk to anyone about how he feels (except me he says). I guess your kids can't reject you?!
I think the reasons he was able to get so intimate with me when he never has with anyone else are that I always interpreted his behavior as "this guy is really scared" rather than "this guy is a jerk" and because I never took it personally so we didn't escalate into me getting emotional or upset with him which I think made him feel calm and safe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 11:36:06 GMT
Jasmin, that is exactly how I am with my DA. If I keep it “friends and set my boundary by telling him I am distancing myself for fear of him hurting me again” he immediately started changing his behavior and stated pursuing me and opening up to me about himself. It’s something in their brain that is hard wired that makes them feel way comfortable knowing we see them and put them “friendship zone” vs. romantic. They are afraid of the words “romantic or intimate”. I like his friendship so, I can accommodate and be flexible as long as he does not disrespect me. Taking is slow is okay withbme while I focus on myself and make myself happy with my own hobbies and interests. Planning my next vacation with sister and doing yoga and and hanging with my friends. In the meantime, I am also very open to meeting other guys and going on dates.
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Post by yasmin on Dec 12, 2017 12:15:32 GMT
That's good if you are able to detach like that. I don't think I can be "friends" with him really because it's difficult with romantic feelings getting in the way. I think I'd not be being honest with myself because I'd be secretly hoping he changes and we end up together which is really setting myself up for misery
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 12, 2017 13:39:21 GMT
I was struck by what Mary posted in another thread about DA’s being villanized and since we have some DA’s on this board - I think this is a great opportunity to learn from each other. Mary mentioned that DA’s and AP’s are two sides of the same coin. I believe this. I can be avoidant in some relationships (mostly my family because they cause a lot of stress and drama in my life at times) but I shifted to AP with my ex. And I’m very secure in my friendships. Go figure. So so my question is - if you’re a DA - are you that way with everyone in your life? Are you avoidant with your friends and family? Or is it just the scope of the romantic relationship that triggers that? it seems like DA’s ‘can’t feel’ or ‘can’t connect’ but perhaps this is an oversimplification? My ex was a very loyal friend. But there was a certain aspect of avoidance in them from my POV but I realize I’m bias. He’s also close to a family member but distant from others so there seems to be a fluidity. I’m curious about whether DA’s can have close relationships and/or friendships without the ‘pressures’ of romantic intimacy. I think we all have different attachment styles with different people. My mom was AP with my dad who is DA but she is DA with me. I think that we are constantly confronted with other people's attachment style and that impacts our intereractions with them. It s good stuff to know about since it provides an opportunity to see the various aspects of ourselves. |
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cate
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Post by cate on Dec 12, 2017 21:11:53 GMT
That is so odd but that’s my experience too. As long as I kept things ‘unlabeled’ my ex was fine. We were clearly a couple but putting a label on it is what freaked him out.
He was also pretty great as a friend. He sucked as a boyfriend in all honesty. I miss the friendship. I don’t miss the push/pull of the relationship.
I haven’t heard from any DA on this. So there is a shift? But can I assume there is no security in any of the relationships?
I guess I’m fascinated by what does or does not trigger that anxiety. Because my ex was very intimate with me. Way more than I think with others. But that label or me wanting him to say ‘I commit’ is what freaked him out. I’d love some insight on this.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 21:28:37 GMT
I had to really think about this question before posting. I am DA with my mother, maybe since she is what started it for me. (long history of emotional and sometimes physical abuse). I am DA in all romantic relationships. Here's the odd thing. I am secure in my close friendships and with my daughter, who is now an adult. I don't think it has anything to do with children not being able to reject you, because they can and sometimes do.
My daughter is not DA in any other relationships except with my mother (her grandmother). She is secure with me, her friends and her husband. I know why I am not secure with my mother, but have no idea why that extends into romantic relationships, but not close friendships. I have very close friends of 20 plus years and they have never triggered me. It must have something to do with how the parent attachment effects romantic relationships specifically or perhaps the exclusivity of the relationship? I will definitely have to think about this some more. It's a good question. Hopefully, other DAs can helps shed some light here.
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Post by david21 on Dec 12, 2017 22:46:49 GMT
I had to really think about this question before posting. I am DA with my mother, maybe since she is what started it for me. (long history of emotional and sometimes physical abuse). I am DA in all romantic relationships. Here's the odd thing. I am secure in my close friendships and with my daughter, who is now an adult. I don't think it has anything to do with children not being able to reject you, because they can and sometimes do. My daughter is not DA in any other relationships except with my mother (her grandmother). She is secure with me, her friends and her husband. I know why I am not secure with my mother, but have no idea why that extends into romantic relationships, but not close friendships. I have very close friends of 20 plus years and they have never triggered me. It must have something to do with how the parent attachment effects romantic relationships specifically or perhaps the exclusivity of the relationship? I will definitely have to think about this some more. It's a good question. Hopefully, other DAs can helps shed some light here. This is a really interesting thread and Mary's post really hits home for me with my ex. She had very close friends. In fact, her friends were her EVERYTHING. Far more of a priority than me even and there would often be times she would choose them over me. There were also times I would be in the presence of them with her, and as I observed their interactions often thought to myself, "man, I sure wish she could be like that with me." There was a stark contrast in how she behaved with her peers vs how she behaved with me and it always made me feel "less than". It bothered me a lot as I couldn't understand why. I would assume it has to do with a friend not being able to "hurt" you on the level an intimate partner could? There for it's safer? |
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Post by yasmin on Dec 13, 2017 17:41:05 GMT
I read somewhere that the romantic relationship is where most of the parental issues come out to play, so lots of people with all sorts of problems with romantic relationships can often be fine with friends but get triggered in romantic relationships.
I think this also tends to only come out in more adult / serious relationships. So for example your first love or people you dated as a young teenager are fine but then when it comes to the point of grown-up relationships, marriage, serious commitment as an adult then the stuff your parents created in you begins to come out like Pandora's Box or something.
Maybe it's the fact that your parents are your "family", closest people to you, base of security and then your spouse / life partner takes on this role later.
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Post by kristyrose on Dec 13, 2017 18:14:25 GMT
Hi Cate and everyone,
Great question you posed!
I have often wondered the same thing. I have found myself being FA in some of my previous relationships, but mostly AP. In my most recent relationship with my FA ex, he also became warmer and more relaxed once he felt we were just friends. Now he is in withdrawal mode suddenly and we are not speaking, because he feels we need to make a greater effort to "move on"- yet he also said he wasn't drawing any lines in the sand.
I feel like some DA/FA's like to keep the door open an inch, so that if they should decide that they do want to be intimate again, they can.
My question for DA/FA's is why not just leave the relationship if you don't feel you need it, versus leaving it vague enough for an anxious person to stick around? (mind you I ask this knowing there are many dynamics at play and all DA/FA/AP's are not the same, just curious for insight)
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cate
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Post by cate on Dec 14, 2017 0:00:59 GMT
I think a committed intimate relationship does mirror the parental relationship in the sense that much of your needs are going to be met (or not) by your partner. And your lives will meld. For an avoidant who values independence- this is certainly scary.
Friends you can be close to but your lives are separate. I talk to my best friend every day. I tell her everything. There is anintimacy there. But I don’t necessarily need to compromise with her or really consider her needs like I did my ex. Even simple things like dinner needed coordination with my ex.
The same is true for family. There is still a separateness despite the emotional closeness.
So I do think intimate romantic relationships bring a lot of issues to the forefront. That can be a good thing because in a healthy relationship - it helps each grow and heal certain things. In unhealthy relationships - it just sparks conflict and hurt and often opens wounds
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