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Post by krolle on Oct 24, 2022 15:05:03 GMT
When I'm feeling anxious about a relationship, but not sure why, I find it very hard to tell if I'm just triggered into hypervigilance by something relatively harmless that triggers past wounds....Or If I should trust my instinct that something is wrong.
Can't tell if paranoid or Good instincts.
Anybody have any thoughts of how to discern the two?
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Post by sunrisequest on Oct 27, 2022 11:12:13 GMT
Hi krolle, This is something I've thought about a bit in the past, and have listened to a few podcasts that go into this... because I do think it's a really important thing to discern. It's really at the heart of a lot of problems, not just relational ones - where you can mistake fear and anxiety for intuition and instinct. In one podcast I listened to, the person was describing the difference as our intuition/instinct being a place of deep knowing. A soft voice that comes from a place of calm, where you just know the answer. Whereas the anxiety is a much more urgent, scary and powerful feeling. I think instinct has the potential to still show up as a forceful feeling, something telling you that you're just not safe at all and you need to do something about it pronto, but much of the time in relationships we aren't in actual danger, but just feel that way because of anxiety/past wounding. There's a website that has a lot of articles on this topic... here's one of them conscious-transitions.com/relationship-anxiety-intuition-or-fear/And an excerpt from the same article: "Finally, I understand that my intuition is gently affirmative and easily ignored, whereas my anxiety is a screaming feral animal and I cannot ignore even if I try, so best not to." |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 27, 2022 19:22:36 GMT
And an excerpt from the same article: "Finally, I understand that my intuition is gently affirmative and easily ignored, whereas my anxiety is a screaming feral animal and I cannot ignore even if I try, so best not to." Yes, it's good to try to remember that anxiety is still there for a reason and not outright ignore it. It's a signal that there's an underlying issue. But the issue is related to internal dysfunction that hasn't been addressed or processed, which may be brought on because a mirror is being held up to you whenever someone is in a romantic relationship, the anxiety isn't about the other person in those cases. It is familiar anxiety that is difficult to verbalize or explain yet happens no matter who you are with. If your romantic partner is more anxious or secure than you and you're FA, it triggers deactivation (fear of engulfment). If they are more avoidant than you and you're FA, it triggers anxiety (fear of abandonment). We're back to the over-/under- coupling concept I often link to. If you're disconnected from yourself and your body, you react to these feelings but can't sit long enough with yourself to hear and discern where they're actually coming from or what they are saying. All you hear is the self-protection defense mechanisms screaming out that kept you "safe" in a dysfunctional childhood environment that never matured past that use. Instinct is a guide that you can verbalize and attribute. For example, I have a bad feeling that this person can't be trusted... because I've seen them only treat people well if they want something from them or find them attractive, and they are disrespectful to everyone else. (Let's say for sake of the example, they are mean to servers and overweight people and members of the opposite sex who aren't conventionally "hot".) So if this person loses interest in me, they will treat me poorly as well, and I can't fully trust or like a person like that. This example would be a legitimate instinct. Triggered anxiety and fear would be, I feel off about this person but I have no idea why, but I feel like maybe they'd just leave me like everyone else does because I don't deserve to be loved if someone got to know the real me. The way I started to discern between the two was to sit with my anxiety even though it was super crappy and explore it. What was I afraid of? Was it a me problem, a them problem, or an us together problem? This exercise was very difficult at first but got easier over time. The very first time I did it, it was because I got super jealous and upset when my FA ex asked me to meet his ex who wanted to meet me. He was friends with her and she was married by then but I was sure she was his phantom ex, and I declined and got triggered very anxious. But as I sat with it I was like, my jealousy is my problem not his, coming from my insecurity that I'm not as good as other people / his exes, and fear he'd leave me for someone else. That is MY problem. And then I felt better and told him I'd deal with it on my own and stop being anxious at him, and I did. Though I still did not want to meet her, and I stuck to that and never met her. Now of course in retrospect, I realize this was a threefold problem. 1. My insecurity and jealousy from fear of abandonment (AP). 2. His regularly not making me feel secure in the relationship because he was FA and always looking for ways to distance from me, including rare throwaway thoughtless words comparing me to other women he was more physically attracted to, and never fully processing his past breakups and speaking of exes in an overly fond way that reflected problems with healthy boundaries. 3. Us being FA/AP together and our dynamic being an insecure anxious-avoidant trap. So in this example, because my relationship was unhealthy and insecure in addition to me being AP and insecure and him being FA and insecure, this was about both triggered anxiety and legitimate instinct! But I paid attention to the triggered anxiety, which was the #1 bullet and which I needed to sit with myself to learn how to dig into and verbalize and realized it was just projected fear, while much more easily pushing away and ignoring my legitimate instinct about concrete issues and not projected fear (the #2 and #3 bullets), because I wanted to stay in the relationship. Hopefully that isn't even more confusing, but I'm saying an added layer that may trip you up in your analysis of your own feelings is that issues may be either triggered anxious or legitimate instinct, or both together at the same time. |
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Post by krolle on Oct 30, 2022 3:26:23 GMT
Thanks a lot guys. Really insightful input. That website was an interesting read sunrisequest. It seemed to be mostly aimed at a fear of enmeshment, perhaps the avoidant side's fears? alexandra It's the pattern change which I'm hyper vigilant to and put's the fear of god into me. Though I'm sure you were aware of that already. If they start off cold and only wanting 2 texts a week as a level of communication from the get go, I can handle, or conversely want a bit more interaction than I'm used to, I can too. If they start off affectionate and talkative,.... Then there's a sudden and inexplicable pattern change a few months in, my brain initiates panic mode. It's the unpredictable (from my perspective) switch that is most frightening. I realise the irony of this as an FA myself. In terms of being able to sit with the anxiety and digest it. Then at least for me, 2 additional factors come into play. One is that I'm very sensative. Sitting with the anxiety is massively destructive to other areas of my life and makes it difficult to continue. Recently I have tried to just sit with my feelings of anxiety. Trying not to drink or engage in some other way of avoiding the sensation. But I can t sleep, struggle to eat, have diarhhea and have no ability to concentrate. Which is massively impactful on my life outside relationships of course. And it doesnt seem to diminish fast enough. The second issue is that, at least for me. My FA behaviours are at least somewhat egosyntonic. Which makes them hard to shake. And is the main contributor to failure in therapy. Though I do take stock of your assesment about the possibility of both trigger abd instinct. Wise as usual. |
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Post by krolle on Oct 30, 2022 3:34:25 GMT
Also I may genuinely need a hand with this relationship guys.
She might be a keeper.... But I'm sure im gonna fu*k it up somehow. Or maybe Im completely misled about her. ....confused.
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Post by mrob on Oct 30, 2022 11:53:28 GMT
Egosyntonic. Interesting. I have found the ego to be a big problem. The enemy, in fact. I can’t guarantee the ego isn’t after the praise that comes from posting here!
When the ego is smashed, that’s when rock bottom is hit. I’ve had to hit it multiple times to be pliable, teachable, and I excruciatingly will again.
I’d love to be more positive, but that’s my experience.
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Post by introvert on Oct 31, 2022 5:08:08 GMT
Egosyntonic. Interesting. I have found the ego to be a big problem. The enemy, in fact. I can’t guarantee the ego isn’t after the praise that comes from posting here! When the ego is smashed, that’s when rock bottom is hit. I’ve had to hit it multiple times to be pliable, teachable, and I excruciatingly will again. I’d love to be more positive, but that’s my experience. Funny you mention it, I am working to be more aware of ego and making distinctions when it comes to motivation. I forego things when I recognize that it's my ego seeking relevance or some kind of outlet or affirmation. Spending less time on the internet as a result, among other things. I like this chapter, the ego shrinking chapter... I guess at my age I'm finally ready for it. That sucker has its hands in so much. But it's interesting and rewarding in a way to be aware and let go a bit. |
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Post by krolle on Nov 3, 2022 17:55:57 GMT
Egosyntonic. Interesting. I have found the ego to be a big problem. The enemy, in fact. I can’t guarantee the ego isn’t after the praise that comes from posting here! When the ego is smashed, that’s when rock bottom is hit. I’ve had to hit it multiple times to be pliable, teachable, and I excruciatingly will again. I’d love to be more positive, but that’s my experience. If it's any consolation you arent alone in your pessimism lol. Seems to be a fairly common trait in FA especially. Ego for sure is a big problem. Pete walker has some interesting things to say about the developing ego in childhood trauma situations. Though as I'v mentioned before I'm unsure about my opinion of his work. Egosyntonic behaviour is very hard to treat vs egodystonic. As I mentioned its been a major factor in my failure with therapy. Especially talk therapy. My OCD for example. OCD is generally an egodystonic thing. So the person suffering from it is usually somewhat aware that their behaviour is illogical and contradictive to who they are or what their ideal self is. It's still difficult to face and treat of course, but definately possible. I have had quiet a bit of tangible success with response and exposure therapy because I believe in it, and the results are something I really want. Whereas with my fearful avoidance for sure there are elements which are against my ideal self. But a significant part of it egosyntonic. And that makes me extremely resistant to many therapies. My heroes, fictional or real are emotionally unavalable, stoic, taciturn loners, rigid, stubborn. My pessimism and mistrust of humanity, especially in relationships is something I really believe in. So when a therapist tries to get me to open up or stop thinking so black and white, my ego will simply dig in and defend itself vehemently. If they try tell me the world isnt so hostile my mind will tell me this person is an ignorant fool. They are trying to brain wash you etc.... Even though I will admit theres a tiny voice in my head trying to get me to open up a bit. Its usually shut down quickly by the fear brain. Having said all that I'm triggered avoidant at the moment so dont have acess to my emotions or softer side. At least I'm aware of my current state and won't act on it immediately I suppose lol. My current relationship is going somewhat well surprisingly. I talk to her about all this and I think she appreciates I'm trying, and seems to be impressed I can articulate my inner workings, even when triggered one way or the other. I also definately have become increasingly interested in SSRI's as a potential pharmaceutical option for my obvious cognitive inflexibility. So far fear has prevented me taking the plunge. |
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