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Post by caroline on Jan 26, 2023 22:28:39 GMT
I'm in a situationship with a guy for almost a year and i get tons of mixed signals from him which confuse me, so i'd appreciate your feedback on this.. We're not in a committed relationship, more like friends with occasional benefits i guess. Despite seeming like a shy guy, he flirted with me after we first met and eventually invited me to go for a daily hike together. We had an amazing time together and ended up having sex. He said at the time that it was "magical", but the next day i got a phone call from him saying that he's not emotionally available for a relationship and it would be best if we just leave this as a one-time thing (he explained his unavailability is because he's grieving the recent loss of his sister). I didn't necessarily want a serious relationship with him either but i did want to see him again and was disappointed hearing this... but respected his choice and decided not to contact him further.
However, he was often looking for excuses to contact me- sometimes by text but mostly by phone, saying "we can still be friends". Our phone calls could last an hour at a time and i assumed that no one would waste hours talking to someone they're not interested in... Gradually it felt like we're getting closer and i really wanted to be there for him as a friend even if nothing happens beyond that friendship. On the other hand, on many occasions he would treat me in a very cold manner- ignoring my texts or responding after several days with some distant reply like "i'm busy". Every time he went cold on me i would decide that i'm not making an effort to contact him anymore, and every time he was the one to come back trying to get close to me again.
We live quite a long distance from each other, so most of our communication is by phone/texts, but every couple of months we meet, often by his initiative (after saying on our first "date" to leave it as a one-time thing). He never mentions any feelings for me. On very rare occasions he would tell me that he misses me, but that is really the most emotion he ever expressed in words. He doesn't respond to my expressions either- sometimes i tell him i miss him and all he says is "i understand". He rarely talks about his emotions on any subject, only mentions that he's depressed and detached since his sister's death and usually not willing to talk about it beyond that. Very often even a simple question of "how are you feeling today?" from my side results in him ignoring me or making me feel like an unwanted intruder.
When we meet he can just stand there and hug me for 15 minutes without letting go, smelling my hair... it usually leads to sex which begins very emotional and intense, but once we're done he gets extremely detached- he doesn't even stay next to me in bed, but just gets dressed and sits on the other side of the bed from me, either silently or talking about some casual unrelated stuff. Never saying he enjoyed it or expressing anything related to that. No communication during sex- never asking me if i like it or if there's something i want to do, seems like he's mostly focused on himself. If i want him to do something i have to specifically ask for it, and very often i will get the feeling that he's not really interested and only does it because i asked. The finale of our every meeting is him completely cutting any contact with me for about a week, sometimes longer. If i initiate the slightest contact during this time (even a simple text "how are you?"), he will respond something distant or not respond at all, and it will usually take him a couple of weeks to resume regular contact like before.
So far it all sounds like why do i even bother? I can't imagine any person behaving this way towards someone he has feelings for or considers to be his friend. On many occasions i just think that he likes having me around for some nice casual sex and that's it. But he is a good looking guy and can surely find casual sex partners much closer to him and without needing to talk with them on the phone for hours. Is it really worth making the effort to drive all the long way to see me just to have sex without any feelings involved?
The problem is that as time goes by i develop stronger feelings for him, becoming emotionally involved. I can no longer make a rational decision whether to stay or just leave him alone because i'm afraid that maybe i'm just misinterpreting some of his behaviour as a sign that he is emotionally involved as well, while in reality he is just using me for some occasional fun. How can i tell if his cold episodes are an avoidant pattern or he's just being an egoistic jerk? I don't want to ask him about it directly as he always perceives my attempts to talk about feelings as a personal criticism...
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 26, 2023 23:02:58 GMT
I'm in a situationship with a guy for almost a year and i get tons of mixed signals from him which confuse me, so i'd appreciate your feedback on this.. We're not in a committed relationship, more like friends with occasional benefits i guess. Despite seeming like a shy guy, he flirted with me after we first met and eventually invited me to go for a daily hike together. We had an amazing time together and ended up having sex. He said at the time that it was "magical", but the next day i got a phone call from him saying that he's not emotionally available for a relationship and it would be best if we just leave this as a one-time thing (he explained his unavailability is because he's grieving the recent loss of his sister). I didn't necessarily want a serious relationship with him either but i did want to see him again and was disappointed hearing this... but respected his choice and decided not to contact him further. However, he was often looking for excuses to contact me- sometimes by text but mostly by phone, saying "we can still be friends". Our phone calls could last an hour at a time and i assumed that no one would waste hours talking to someone they're not interested in... Gradually it felt like we're getting closer and i really wanted to be there for him as a friend even if nothing happens beyond that friendship. On the other hand, on many occasions he would treat me in a very cold manner- ignoring my texts or responding after several days with some distant reply like "i'm busy". Every time he went cold on me i would decide that i'm not making an effort to contact him anymore, and every time he was the one to come back trying to get close to me again. We live quite a long distance from each other, so most of our communication is by phone/texts, but every couple of months we meet, often by his initiative (after saying on our first "date" to leave it as a one-time thing). He never mentions any feelings for me. On very rare occasions he would tell me that he misses me, but that is really the most emotion he ever expressed in words. He doesn't respond to my expressions either- sometimes i tell him i miss him and all he says is "i understand". He rarely talks about his emotions on any subject, only mentions that he's depressed and detached since his sister's death and usually not willing to talk about it beyond that. Very often even a simple question of "how are you feeling today?" from my side results in him ignoring me or making me feel like an unwanted intruder. When we meet he can just stand there and hug me for 15 minutes without letting go, smelling my hair... it usually leads to sex which begins very emotional and intense, but once we're done he gets extremely detached- he doesn't even stay next to me in bed, but just gets dressed and sits on the other side of the bed from me, either silently or talking about some casual unrelated stuff. Never saying he enjoyed it or expressing anything related to that. No communication during sex- never asking me if i like it or if there's something i want to do, seems like he's mostly focused on himself. If i want him to do something i have to specifically ask for it, and very often i will get the feeling that he's not really interested and only does it because i asked. The finale of our every meeting is him completely cutting any contact with me for about a week, sometimes longer. If i initiate the slightest contact during this time (even a simple text "how are you?"), he will respond something distant or not respond at all, and it will usually take him a couple of weeks to resume regular contact like before. So far it all sounds like why do i even bother? I can't imagine any person behaving this way towards someone he has feelings for or considers to be his friend. On many occasions i just think that he likes having me around for some nice casual sex and that's it. But he is a good looking guy and can surely find casual sex partners much closer to him and without needing to talk with them on the phone for hours. Is it really worth making the effort to drive all the long way to see me just to have sex without any feelings involved? The problem is that as time goes by i develop stronger feelings for him, becoming emotionally involved. I can no longer make a rational decision whether to stay or just leave him alone because i'm afraid that maybe i'm just misinterpreting some of his behaviour as a sign that he is emotionally involved as well, while in reality he is just using me for some occasional fun. How can i tell if his cold episodes are an avoidant pattern or he's just being an egoistic jerk? I don't want to ask him about it directly as he always perceives my attempts to talk about feelings as a personal criticism... I have a different question….is a situationship after a year what you want? Sounds like this guy is not moving the needle forward and after a year, if he hasn’t moved the needle forward to make you a proper girlfriend, it is likely he won’t. Meanwhile…as you have stated above, you are becoming more attached to him….even though there is no commitment. I think rather then looking at his behaviors, I would encourage you to consider what it is you want. If you are looking for a relationship that eventually leads to a marriage, it does not sound like this is it. Perhaps the reason he doesn’t look for casual sex locally is that he knows he can get it from you, that you have accepted terms on his conditions. Just something to consider.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 26, 2023 23:55:58 GMT
He's shown you and told you what he wants and what he can handle. Occasional sex and someone to talk to / companionship that's 100% on his terms and requires little to no effort from him. No commitment or obligations or worrying about what you want whatsoever. He said from the beginning he's totally emotionally unavailable after his sister died, and it sounds like he's doing nothing (such as therapy, mourning and moving on) to change that. You've accepted all the terms and let him be. He disappears to create boundaries when you push him, and then you always accept him back on his terms immediately when he returns. This has nothing to do with any feelings or attraction he may or may not have with you. How he feels about you is simply irrelevant because it's too locked up to access. That's nothing to do with his being a player or not, but it does have everything to do with how emotionally unavailable he is. It's not going to magically change, no matter what he feels about you. This is 100% about him getting his needs met. I'm sure he enjoys your company, but all those hours of talking to you mean he likes that you make him feel less lonely and distracted from his pain. There's no other secret message there. He's chosen you because you accepted his terms. Most women wouldn't, especially if they lived closer to him and there wasn't this built in distance excuse to keep the relationship from progressing in person. tnr9 is entirely right in that you need to figure out why you're in a long-distance situation that's not meeting any of your needs except through fantasy. All insecure styles can be attracted to long-distance relationships or situationships because they can allow a fantasy to subsist for a longer time than an in person dating situation, which comes with mingling your lives and real responsibilities popping up sooner than later. All insecure types are also emotionally unavailable in their own way. So looking into your background, your attachment style, why you feel like you don't deserve better, why chasing a guy who doesn't want the same relationship you want and the longing that comes with it is appealing to you, what "needs" this situationship is meeting for you that seems more appealing than finding an available man... these are all questions that lead to you being able to stop abandoning yourself to this situation and move forward. If you stay in contact with him, this dynamic will continue for as long as you allow. Have you ever spoken to a therapist or taken an assessment of your own attachment style?
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Post by anne12 on Jan 27, 2023 1:54:58 GMT
“I didn't necessarily want a serious relationship with him either but i did want to see him again and was disappointed hearing this... but respected his choice and decided not to contact him further”
“The problem is that as time goes by i develop stronger feelings for him, becoming emotionally involved”…
Remember the impact of oxytocin when having sex
The impact of oxytocin: The effects of oxytocin are exacerbated by estrogen and minimized by testosterone. The bonding effect seems to last 2-3 weeks in women and 2-3 days in men. This could partly explain why younger women get more attached due to sex than younger men; and why post-menopausal women experience more freedom around sex while older men want regular sex to feel connected to their partners. It also explains why we see each other in a different light after orgasm (it’s orgasm that counts, with or without intercourse). Both men and women may want to consider the effects of oxytocin. Are you ready for that attachment, either by you or to you?
After menopause women gets less affected by oxytocin during sex
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Post by caroline on Jan 27, 2023 9:33:26 GMT
Thanks everyone for your input, i really appreciate it.
To address some of your questions-
I did accept his terms at first because he was the one to initiate contact after our first time together, stating he wants us to be friends. I felt empathy towards his situation as he was not in a good place mentally, so i told myself that if he opened up enough to say that he needs a friend then i will try to be there and support him. He has very few close friends if any at all and doesn't really share or open up to anyone, which i felt was different with me. We remained in a friendly contact for 2-3 months before meeting in person for the second time, so i really didn't think there's any romantic perspective to all this.
I did date other people for short periods of time during this year (didn't meet with him in the periods that i was involved with someone). I guess if I had found someone for a real relationship during this time then this “friendship” would’ve ended. Of course, now the situation is different as i become more and more attached, and I’m aware that this sabotages the chance of me finding someone more available.
I myself don’t have secure attachment, I am AP sometimes leaning to FA, and I know that AP’s have a tendency to attach to avoidants. I am trying to work on myself to be more secure, and I don’t think I was clingy or pushy with him (compared to previous relationships).
Every time he senses I am distancing myself and asks me about it, I tell him that this is my reaction to his cold behavior towards me, which makes me feel like a burden to him. His usual response is that he understands why I get this feeling, but he’s not doing it on purpose and then goes on to tell me how much he appreciates having me in his life. He then appears to make an effort to be more open and warm, but after a while another cold episode will come.
I guess the main reason for me asking here is to see if there’s any hope this could ever be a normal relationship (in case he does have feelings for me), or this is something I should just accept if I decide to stay.
Sorry it's so long... I have a tendency to over analyze everything, when I probably should just cut him out of my life and move on. It's just hard to give up on someone you care about, especially when we do have a great time together in between his ice periods...
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Post by anne12 on Jan 27, 2023 11:38:48 GMT
Are you giving sex to get something else back ? Ap and sex - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/46199/Fa and sex - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/46201/Maybe he can sence that you want something more, but you haven’t communicated what it is that you really want ? And this can be some kind of manipulation. You have to communicate that things has changed for you You can always try to stop giving him sex and see what happens ? Men can use sex as a way to deal with stress Theres a post about the cool girl in the general discussion forum The cool girl is often a catch among men, because she is just cool with everything and not a “bitch” like other women The cool girl - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/38962/jebkinnisonforum.com/post/48643/ - the cool girl and sex Do you regonice her in yourself ? And notice the post about oxytocin - a lot of women can’t have sex for a longer time with the same person without getting bonded If you don’t ask for what you really want, with the change of getting rejected, there’s a big chance that you in the long run will damage your own self worth / self esteem You can check Robert Sternbergs theory of love: Robert Sternberg The love triangle 1) Passion 2) Intimacy 3) Commitment You can’t make a man love you by giving him sex Also women can carry trauma in their vagina by letting men in who are unaware in what he is doing, by being selfish, you by selling out of your own integrity and your precious body ect. Maybe you should ask your head, your heart and your vagina what they really want ? How to distinguish between a type A and a type B man - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/26367/
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Post by introvert on Jan 27, 2023 14:44:30 GMT
I hate to say it this way but...
This will never be a relationship. This is about sex. He's behaving this way because this is about sex. You can't imagine anyone treating someone this way if they had feelings because it wouldn't happen. If he had feelings you would know without a doubt and something besides sex would manifest. A long time ago.
We meet our match, for good or for ill. Every crap situation I have been in (many) has been a reflection of what level I was operating on.
My emotional unavailability = his emotional availability
My willingness to engage in casual sex = his willingness to angle in casual sex
My internal illusions about relationships = his internal illusions about relationships
My insecurity = his insecurity
My inability to connect in a healthy, intimate, interdependent way = his inability to connect in a healthy, intimate, interdependent way.
My emotional unavailability = his emotional unavailability
AP will tend to really balk at that last bit because they conflate craving with love, the confuse emotional dependence with emotional availability and the two are very, very different. I am not judging that, I am saying each insecure style has their distorted views.
If your bar was truly higher, you wouldn't be in this. You'd be operating very differently. He is the piece that fits in your puzzle, if there wasn't a space for him to occupy and fill a void then he wouldn't be there in your life.
Do a deep deep dive into why you are in this... what are you afraid of? What do you believe about yourself, about love, and about others? Do you know what love and respect and intimacy looks like? Are you comfortable with your boundaries where they are, or your lack of boundaries? If you sit really quiet with those questions one at a time you might get some insight into the direction you need to go.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 27, 2023 19:09:59 GMT
A good way to skip the analyzing and see the big picture is to tell yourself this: if a normal relationship was going to happen, after a year, it would have already happened.
The fact that it hasn't reflects that you actually are already in the "relationship" that this is going to be: a situationship that doesn't meet your needs at all. There is no waiting and waiting for something to magically change and start in life, it is already in progress. There is no "what if" or seeing hope in the inconsistency. This is the dynamic you two have built over the last year.
A good relationship isn't only good in the fun times, it works in less fun or outright bad times as well. In fact, and I've said this in other posts, the bad times can be MORE important than the good times because you learn if you can solve problems together, fight fair without hurting each other, if you respond to stress compatibly, if you support each other, and if you make a good team. Bad times (in a good relationship) help build a healthy foundation of trust rather than a fantasy connection. There is no team at all in this situationship. And since he's getting what he wants, of course he doesn't want it to end and will try to put in the bare minimum to talk you into staying without actually changing anything or giving you anything besides some words.
It's a huge red flag when someone can't maintain friendships and really doesn't have friends. It isn't a special connection of, oh, I must be different, I can be there for them and save them. That fulfills some AP and FA fantasy needs, but it doesn't at all lead to anything resembling a functional relationship, as you can see even in your own example.
Not trying to be harsh, just real. I've gotten wrapped up in pretzels in situationships like this in the past, and each one was a waste of time and distraction away from working on myself and getting healthy enough for a real relationship with a great partner. I'd actually regret all the time I wasted, but I did end up getting my own $hit together "in time" to still have the opportunity to get married and do family planning with a great partner, which is what I wanted. If I kept wasting my own time for another couple years longer, I don't think it would have happened, at least not with time for conventional family planning. So ask yourself what you really want in life and if this puts you on the path to achieving your goals, or if it takes you away from them. That helped give me the motivation to stop wasting my time on the issues of the guys I was trying to force healthy relationships with who didn't have the desire or capacity for what I wanted, and fix my side of the equation instead.
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