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Post by iz42 on Feb 17, 2023 20:24:54 GMT
As I've worked on my AP attachment and started moving away from my old patterns of limerence and fantasy in relationships, I've found it difficult to strike a balance around certainty and accepting reality. I think I've swung in the opposite direction and become a little more avoidant especially with focusing on flaws and potential problems. I used to be in absolute fantasyland in many relationships and I would tell others how great things were. I would then be blindsided when it didn't work out. Now I'm extremely cautious, at times overly so. I'm working on cultivating more of a balance. I do trust myself more than I did before, but it's not a linear process. It's not like I'm completely healed and now I trust myself completely at all times. Sometimes this is frustrating. For example, I feel good and solid in my current relationship, but at times I think I should feel more certain about it than I do. I see people raving about their happy relationships and I know some of this is fake but not all of it. For example, I read Roxane Gay's piece about her marriage yesterday, and she talks about how easy her relationship is. She talks about both her and her wife having a sense of certainty about each other. The thing is, I don't feel like my relationship is easy or certain. The work that we do is productive, but it's difficult and vulnerable and painful at times. There are many moments of confusion. I trust myself to end the relationship if it's ever really not working for me, and I know it will never be perfect. But I do wonder if it should be easier.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 17, 2023 22:45:30 GMT
So far my marriage really is that easy. But it's a combination of my husband being very trustworthy (consistent) and having a strong sense of his own mature self, and my attitude of not sweating the small stuff in life in general and being able to prioritize what's actually important to me. That's where my "certainty" is, knowing what's most important to me and my value set, and that I can trust myself to still come out okay if and when things deviate. A bunch of that understanding and perspective-shift happened in the months before I met him as a result of the early pandemic forcing me to reevaluate my own priorities, had nothing to do with this specific relationship. But the timing of the relationship started after I'd gotten comfortable with myself and accepting myself in that way.
So I think you've identified that you're starting to nitpick as a distancing tactic to deal with uncertainty -- this is good that you're identifying it so you can try to interrupt that from happening. And my suggestion would be to focus on not just trusting yourself but really connecting and being sure of the life you want to live and your priorities and values, because that makes it a lot easier to figure out if you're on the right path and deal with uncertainty as it comes at you. Nothing in life is ever fully certain, expecting that is impossible, so it really does just come back to all you have control over and can be sure about is yourself, and working on it from that angle.
Also, a hallmark of AP is ambivalence (when you're not longing and lusting after an unavailable partner). You don't need to act on every single thought and feeling, though, you can use them as a directional guideline to uncover your actual needs. So not being certain isn't necessarily a bad thing about the relationship when it comes to knowing you have an insecure attachment style, it likely just is pointing to there's still growth work to be done somewhere. I know with insecure attachment it's a little hard to parse out the, "is this a me problem, a problem with my partner, or a compatibility problem within the relationship," but if your partner isn't giving you specific dealbreakers or toxicity and the relationship isn't going around in broken circles, then focusing on your side first is a good starting point.
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Post by iz42 on Feb 17, 2023 23:28:53 GMT
Thank you alexandra . I would say that I started out in this relationship doing a lot of nitpicking and being hypervigilant about missing potential red flags. I worked through a lot of that in therapy and I had to let things play out without trying to control the outcome so much. I came to see that my boyfriend and I are quite good at working through things together once we figure out what approach to take. We've done a lot of experimentation and it's taken hard work to get on the same page. His avoidant tendencies were pretty intense at the beginning, and it took a while (I would say almost a year) for us both to become aware of what was going on for him and how that was impacting his behavior in the relationship. We've been together a year and a half now, and I see the work paying off (our work both in the relationship and in individual therapy). I know how much he loves and cares about me. What was have is special. I feel more secure in my ability to understand and express my needs to him. He's worked on accepting my full range of emotions and not shutting down when I'm upset. I think my hesitation is around how much work it took to get to this place. I also see that there's more to do, and I still don't feel a sense of ease around it, probably because we're both having to unlearn lifelong patterns together. As far as the life I want and my priorities and values, we are on the same page but there are challenges. We likely won't be able to live together for a few years. We have dramatically different sleep schedules. We both have ADHD and navigate our struggles with that on a daily basis. He has wanted to move very slowly because of painful experiences in past relationships. I've determined that this is all workable, but coming to that determination was hard. And I don't think I would describe any of it as easy. Maybe that's okay, but it does make me wonder if it should be easier.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 18, 2023 0:30:52 GMT
If you're both in earnest working on earning secure then no, I don't think it "should" be easier. The only way it would be easier with someone is if you continued going through the difficult work (even if you ended it with him and were single you'd still need to do it), and then in the future when you're at a different life stage you met someone secure or mostly secure and started off on different footing. I don't think the fact you both are working through issues mid-relationship, making it tough up to this point, in itself means it's the wrong relationship because it has been hard. And that is specifically because you're both putting in that effort and showing progress, it's not one of you trying to row the boat for both while the other sits arms folded and glaring expectantly at you.
I can't speak to the ADHD, scheduling issues, or time to move in together, as that is lifestyle compatible decisions you need to make that are subjective. But I can say that the other difficulty you're describing is going to come in any relationship until you're secure enough, and I wouldn't drop this one IF it meets your needs, you're not constantly triggering each other, and it is progressing adequately, simply because it wasn't easy from the start. If I hadn't been reading through your journey for a couple years and the difficulties were otherwise, I might have different advice, but I think your attachment-related struggles at least would be present to an extent no matter what. So I wouldn't toss out a relationship with a real foundation of trust and care out or overly doubt it due to comparisons with others who are not in the midst of healing their attachment issues. But I would be as honest with myself as possible about the lifestyle compatibility piece, if you can separate and gauge that outside of the existing attachment issue lens.
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Post by iz42 on Feb 18, 2023 4:44:56 GMT
If you're both in earnest working on earning secure then no, I don't think it "should" be easier. The only way it would be easier with someone is if you continued going through the difficult work (even if you ended it with him and were single you'd still need to do it), and then in the future when you're at a different life stage you met someone secure or mostly secure and started off on different footing. I don't think the fact you both are working through issues mid-relationship, making it tough up to this point, in itself means it's the wrong relationship because it has been hard. And that is specifically because you're both putting in that effort and showing progress, it's not one of you trying to row the boat for both while the other sits arms folded and glaring expectantly at you. I can't speak to the ADHD, scheduling issues, or time to move in together, as that is lifestyle compatible decisions you need to make that are subjective. But I can say that the other difficulty you're describing is going to come in any relationship until you're secure enough, and I wouldn't drop this one IF it meets your needs, you're not constantly triggering each other, and it is progressing adequately, simply because it wasn't easy from the start. If I hadn't been reading through your journey for a couple years and the difficulties were otherwise, I might have different advice, but I think your attachment-related struggles at least would be present to an extent no matter what. So I wouldn't toss out a relationship with a real foundation of trust and care out or overly doubt it due to comparisons with others who are not in the midst of healing their attachment issues. But I would be as honest with myself as possible about the lifestyle compatibility piece, if you can separate and gauge that outside of the existing attachment issue lens. This is super helpful. I'm continuing to sort through the lifestyle stuff. It's come up a lot in therapy. I don't want to have kids, so that makes some of the questions around relationship progression less pressing. I'm not in a rush to live together because I like having my own space. I've made my apartment my own little sanctuary and it makes me feel good to have that for now. I've thought long and hard about the sleep schedule issue because that does create difficulty, but in the future we will likely sleep in separate bedrooms. It's taken some time but we both feel okay about that as a solution. A big part of this is sorting through my own feelings vs. social conventions and expectations, especially around the sleeping arrangement thing. I know it's becoming more common now for couples to talk openly about sleeping separately but there is still stigma attached to it. I'm trying to keep in mind that any solution that works well for both of us is okay.
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Post by introvert on Feb 18, 2023 5:13:15 GMT
If you're both in earnest working on earning secure then no, I don't think it "should" be easier. The only way it would be easier with someone is if you continued going through the difficult work (even if you ended it with him and were single you'd still need to do it), and then in the future when you're at a different life stage you met someone secure or mostly secure and started off on different footing. I don't think the fact you both are working through issues mid-relationship, making it tough up to this point, in itself means it's the wrong relationship because it has been hard. And that is specifically because you're both putting in that effort and showing progress, it's not one of you trying to row the boat for both while the other sits arms folded and glaring expectantly at you. I can't speak to the ADHD, scheduling issues, or time to move in together, as that is lifestyle compatible decisions you need to make that are subjective. But I can say that the other difficulty you're describing is going to come in any relationship until you're secure enough, and I wouldn't drop this one IF it meets your needs, you're not constantly triggering each other, and it is progressing adequately, simply because it wasn't easy from the start. If I hadn't been reading through your journey for a couple years and the difficulties were otherwise, I might have different advice, but I think your attachment-related struggles at least would be present to an extent no matter what. So I wouldn't toss out a relationship with a real foundation of trust and care out or overly doubt it due to comparisons with others who are not in the midst of healing their attachment issues. But I would be as honest with myself as possible about the lifestyle compatibility piece, if you can separate and gauge that outside of the existing attachment issue lens. This is super helpful. I'm continuing to sort through the lifestyle stuff. It's come up a lot in therapy. I don't want to have kids, so that makes some of the questions around relationship progression less pressing. I'm not in a rush to live together because I like having my own space. I've made my apartment my own little sanctuary and it makes me feel good to have that for now. I've thought long and hard about the sleep schedule issue because that does create difficulty, but in the future we will likely sleep in separate bedrooms. It's taken some time but we both feel okay about that as a solution. A big part of this is sorting through my own feelings vs. social conventions and expectations, especially around the sleeping arrangement thing. I know it's becoming more common now for couples to talk openly about sleeping separately but there is still stigma attached to it. I'm trying to keep in mind that any solution that works well for both of us is okay. I didn't know there's a stigma around sleeping separate, although that wouldn't influence me anyway. I will never have it any other way, it means too much to me... we sleep separate. We don't lack any affection or sweetness because of it either. No issues.
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Post by iz42 on Feb 18, 2023 6:04:13 GMT
This is super helpful. I'm continuing to sort through the lifestyle stuff. It's come up a lot in therapy. I don't want to have kids, so that makes some of the questions around relationship progression less pressing. I'm not in a rush to live together because I like having my own space. I've made my apartment my own little sanctuary and it makes me feel good to have that for now. I've thought long and hard about the sleep schedule issue because that does create difficulty, but in the future we will likely sleep in separate bedrooms. It's taken some time but we both feel okay about that as a solution. A big part of this is sorting through my own feelings vs. social conventions and expectations, especially around the sleeping arrangement thing. I know it's becoming more common now for couples to talk openly about sleeping separately but there is still stigma attached to it. I'm trying to keep in mind that any solution that works well for both of us is okay. I didn't know there's a stigma around sleeping separate, although that wouldn't influence me anyway. I will never have it any other way, it means too much to me... we sleep separate. We don't lack any affection or sweetness because of it either. No issues. It seems that a lot of people assume that it means there is trouble in the relationship. I've even heard some therapists make that assumption. So I'm having to undo the messaging that I internalized about it. It's nice to hear positive stories about it because I agree that it really doesn't need to mean anything about the closeness or affection in the relationship.
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 18, 2023 9:16:23 GMT
I didn't know there's a stigma around sleeping separate, although that wouldn't influence me anyway. I will never have it any other way, it means too much to me... we sleep separate. We don't lack any affection or sweetness because of it either. No issues. It seems that a lot of people assume that it means there is trouble in the relationship. I've even heard some therapists make that assumption. So I'm having to undo the messaging that I internalized about it. It's nice to hear positive stories about it because I agree that it really doesn't need to mean anything about the closeness or affection in the relationship. I honestly don’t see a problem with it…my grandparents had 2 separate beds in the same room (they were Jewish). I think it really is no one’s business what your sleeping arrangements are…his/her bedrooms works for a lot of people for various reasons. Focus on what matters and works for you….then find others that support that. I was going to also suggest to stop reading about couples who don’t share your dynamic….every couple is different…super great that the author finds her relationship easy…but does she and her partner have ADHD? Because if the answer is no…then it really is not an apples to apples comparison. B had ADD…maybe even ADHD and I know he had some challenges with focus etc.
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Certainty
Feb 18, 2023 15:12:26 GMT
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Post by introvert on Feb 18, 2023 15:12:26 GMT
iz42 , read about relationships between neurodivergents and get your support from people who can empathize with adhd relationships. My boyfriend has every adhd trait and I have every hsp trait. Our relationship is special and unique because of those things, and it's also challenging sometimes. The beauty of partnership is that you choose to support your partner and yourself by creating your own relationship free from the expectations of anyone else. There are good resources on the internet for adhd couples. Forget the comparisons, that's only going to confuse and concern you. Create the relationship you want with the partner you choose, and grow with it, it's a beautiful thing.
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Post by introvert on Feb 18, 2023 15:24:22 GMT
And you might just be having trouble trusting yourself to choose well in this relationship, so maybe it's a chance to support yourself by learning about your inner critic and challenging it.
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Post by iz42 on Feb 18, 2023 19:06:12 GMT
iz42 , read about relationships between neurodivergents and get your support from people who can empathize with adhd relationships. My boyfriend has every adhd trait and I have every hsp trait. Our relationship is special and unique because of those things, and it's also challenging sometimes. The beauty of partnership is that you choose to support your partner and yourself by creating your own relationship free from the expectations of anyone else. There are good resources on the internet for adhd couples. Forget the comparisons, that's only going to confuse and concern you. Create the relationship you want with the partner you choose, and grow with it, it's a beautiful thing. It's interesting about HSP - I have all of the HSP traits as well. I don't know if that is a separate thing from my adhd or not. I was diagnosed in my late 30s. I haven't found a ton of help reading about adhd couples online. Most of the material I've read talks about struggles with household tasks, forgetfulness, or one partner always being late, and none of these things have been issues for us in our relationship (I guess we're both somewhat higher functioning in the sense that we have tools to handle basic chores, bills, being on time, etc.). In our case the difficulties almost exclusively involve rejection sensitivity and emotional regulation. These things become magnified with anxious/avoidant attachment patterns. Planning is sometimes hard too. I'm working toward accepting that we will have extra challenges because of our neurodivergence. This is frustrating and hard to accept but I know it's true.
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