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Post by seeking on May 18, 2023 17:51:05 GMT
It's like this concept is coming at me from every direction lately. I've heard of it now from three different sources, and recently it hit home in a way that I can barely process all of it b/c it is such a pervasive thing in my life, not surprisingly.
Curious if anyone knows if the components of the drama triangle tend to map over certain attachment styles. That's question #1
I don't often identify with persecutor - more rescuer than victim. But I recently felt very uncomfortable in a situation where someone was putting me in rescuer role and kept talking about the identified perpetrator in this way that was making me really uncomfortable. I shut down and haven't been able to talk to that person since. I felt myself defending the perpetrator just to avoid being triangulated.... and now I don't know how to come back and relate to this person.
So I also wonder (question #2) if we tend to get "stuck" in dynamics with people - patterns, really. I.e., if you have a friend if you and that friend are always sort of somewhere on the triangle in relationship to each other or maybe only in certain situations and if that can change. I do have friends where I've come to them in a victim role and they didn't take the bait (not that I was even very aware of it) but they didn't play the role, didn't rescue. And so I feel relieved about that. But others where it just seems to automatically default to some role and not sure if those relationships can be saved/changed --- I guess it would take awareness and work on the part of both parties.
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Post by alexandra on May 18, 2023 20:14:26 GMT
I think it's less about attachment style and more about childhood role in conflict at that point. Like, from your descriptions with your sister and parents, you were expected to emotionally regulate others and cater to them, fix stuff, and parent: co-dependent rescuer role.
Your friends who didn't take the bait probably had healthier dynamics growing up with people modeling better conflict resolution skills. Victims are going to be the people who were more like your sister, or maybe they'd shift back and forth between victim and persecutor.
The way to change things up is learn healthier relating and walk away from participating in any of the triangle roles. However, if the other person isn't willing to grow and be unstuck, they'll probably stay in their role no matter what you do. So similarly to attachment, you can only control your own side of things. If someone wants to be a persecutor, they'll find someone else willing to participate in the dynamic in the way they want if you're not willing.
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Post by seeking on May 19, 2023 15:50:47 GMT
I think it's less about attachment style and more about childhood role in conflict at that point. Like, from your descriptions with your sister and parents, you were expected to emotionally regulate others and cater to them, fix stuff, and parent: co-dependent rescuer role. Ah, okay. But I guess now when I do it with certain people, I have realized that there seems to be an underlying attachment piece -- either I can fix you so you can then be there for me-- or if you need me, that gives me steady connection (less risk of abandonment). That's sort of why I thought I was doing it, but makes sense about the early stuff. |
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Post by seeking on May 19, 2023 16:02:04 GMT
Your friends who didn't take the bait probably had healthier dynamics growing up with people modeling better conflict resolution skills. Victims are going to be the people who were more like your sister, or maybe they'd shift back and forth between victim and persecutor. Definitely my sister and this other friend who kept reminding me of my sister and I didn't know why. It's like in each relationship, I keep seeing members of my family everywhere! It gets crazy. But I think I can also do victim (when I'm around a rescuer type). I don't know if it was a genuine wish to be heard or if I was unconsciously trying to triangulate. Someone betrayed me in a big way, and it affected a group of people (and me) and when I left that group, I tried to tell a few people the real reason -- and they didn't seem to want to get involved or know - they just were like "Yeah, sometimes things don't' work out." I ran up against this with like 3 people in the group, stepped back, and though - Ohhhh... I wonder if I was trying to play victim and get them to comfort me or take my side. But they didn't. On the other hand though, this friend (who reminds me of my sister) tried to triangulate me around her sister and make her sister the persecutor ... even though she's inheriting millions of dollars -- she kept wanting to tell me how awful her sister is, and poor her -- and she doesn't know when she'll get the money, etc. (she can't handle money so she has none right now). At least with her, I tried to be more "coach" (than rescuer) (which I read about in an article about the "empowerment triangle" where you try to help people solve their own problems and be constructive - not fix, etc. But then I just ended up shutting down. |
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Post by seeking on May 19, 2023 16:03:32 GMT
I have the harder time understanding persecutor. Victim and Rescuer I think I've been mostly in the rescue role. But I may have played victim to my dad or ex before and that would make them the persecutor. Even though they definitely seem more like victims, esp my ex. So IDK
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Post by alexandra on May 19, 2023 18:15:44 GMT
It's like in each relationship, I keep seeing members of my family everywhere! It gets crazy. This is pretty standard. It's what feels familiar to you, so subconsciously it's the people you click with and surround yourself with. That is related to attachment. But the triangles are more about subconscious earlier learned behavior. Which is why sometimes you may be triangulating, you learned that from your dysfunctional family and the way they interacted. Since earning secure, I've drifted away from and let go of certain relationships because they had a foundation of dysfunction, even if they were just uneven. But I became okay with accepting when I outgrew things rather than coaching people through when it falls on deaf ears. I'm personally not a big fan of the triangles because sometimes the problems are your own and to some extent the "empowerment angle" kind of says to deflect and influence others instead, and I've seen that abused (by people convinced that ONLY they are right and cannot recognize they are part of or even the entire problem -- we had to do a professional workshop on this when we had REALLY bad management and they were getting a lot of employee complaints, so the response was to train us in these triangles. The entire triangle framework was effectively weaponized to blame the employees and tell them to take care of their own issues, so that management could entirely ignore their role... talk about a toxic and unproductive mind f*ck, especially for insecures who really did seek ways to improve the dynamics!). |
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Post by cherrycola on May 20, 2023 3:30:51 GMT
The triangle can be complex because we can move within it even in the same interaction. Someone can start off as the persecutor and then move into the victim. It's all very fluid. I mostly just it as a reminder to try to stay in my adult space.
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Post by seeking on May 20, 2023 16:00:30 GMT
It's like in each relationship, I keep seeing members of my family everywhere! It gets crazy. I'm personally not a big fan of the triangles because sometimes the problems are your own and to some extent the "empowerment angle" kind of says to deflect and influence others instead, and I've seen that abused (by people convinced that ONLY they are right and cannot recognize they are part of or even the entire problem -- we had to do a professional workshop on this when we had REALLY bad management and they were getting a lot of employee complaints, so the response was to train us in these triangles. The entire triangle framework was effectively weaponized to blame the employees and tell them to take care of their own issues, so that management could entirely ignore their role... talk about a toxic and unproductive mind f*ck, especially for insecures who really did seek ways to improve the dynamics!). This makes sense. I was just reading about it and saw another option, but I thought, yes, why triangulate at all. I just want out of the triangle! |
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Post by seeking on May 21, 2023 15:00:09 GMT
Any thoughts on why the victim thing in others is so triggering? Is it my own victim stuff?
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Post by alexandra on May 21, 2023 17:01:12 GMT
You've talked about at least your sister, father, and ex all playing the victim at times in a very manipulative way (intentional or not). And it works: it makes you question yourself and feel bad, sometimes acquiescing and doing what they wanted. So, I'd expect it happening with anyone to be triggering, yes, until you can strengthen your boundaries to recognize it and be comfortable walking away from it without second-guessing yourself.
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Post by seeking on May 21, 2023 19:20:45 GMT
This is all so huge to me. I don't know how I didn't know about this framework before or run it through filters with people. I did, but in a less organized way than now.
I just go in this loop that I'm in -- notice person I am friends with is doing this *thing,* *thing* is very familiar. Feel bad about myself for being triggered-- shame self--i.e., "Why can't I be more understanding, open, less sensitive, more forgiving. You were a victim once, right? You're not perfect, etc." All the while stay shut down. Person reaches out, I disappear.
Current status: I'm in disappearing mode.
Ugh.
Anyway, just processing and observing some more.
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