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Post by mrob on Jun 11, 2023 16:21:10 GMT
Be careful, lovebunny. You’re playing with fire. Attachment isn’t entirely voluntary. The positions we put ourselves into are, but who we meet and our subconscious reaction to how their dysfunction fits in with ours isn’t. I’d be seriously asking yourself the question “Why aren’t I willing to block this man? What is in it for me by not blocking him?” Very seriously. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2023 17:09:42 GMT
Be careful, lovebunny. You’re playing with fire. Attachment isn’t entirely voluntary. The positions we put ourselves into are, but who we meet and our subconscious reaction to how their dysfunction fits in with ours isn’t. I’d be seriously asking yourself the question “Why aren’t I willing to block this man? What is in it for me by not blocking him?” Very seriously. The positions we put ourselves into are, true true. The reasons behind it are important to suss out because over time these entanglements only get worse, never better til you break the spell of your own attraction to unavailable partners. If everyone you vibe with is unavailable, it isn't just them. |
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Post by lovebunny on Jun 11, 2023 18:16:21 GMT
It's not "everyone I vibe with," it is everyone! That is what I'm saying, I have not met a single, age appropriate, available person in weeks of hard looking. Y'all are quick to blame the scarcity mentality, but I'm trying to address the actual SCARCITY. Maybe I need to move to a bigger city if I'm to have any hope.
Not blocking because he's still a part of my local community, and I still might need him. He knows how to fix things, and I'm poor. He can tell me how to get to that island in the backcountry I want to find again and can't remember the name of. He still has a box of my xmas ornaments from childhood, my pets, some of my furniture. I have hopes of getting some of that stuff back someday. I mean, I can let it all go if I absolutely have to, but I really don't think he's going to pursue me in any meaningful way.
My feelings around his texts/messages are annoyance and confusion. I don't feel a pull to engage deeper.
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Post by mrob on Jun 11, 2023 23:08:44 GMT
Ok. You’ve addressed the conscious, rational reasons. You could fix the possessions pretty quickly - it’s a normal, expected thing that happens when a relationship ends. The other stuff merits more investigation, within yourself - not necessarily public.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 0:02:13 GMT
It's not "everyone I vibe with," it is everyone! That is what I'm saying, I have not met a single, age appropriate, available person in weeks of hard looking. Y'all are quick to blame the scarcity mentality, but I'm trying to address the actual SCARCITY. Maybe I need to move to a bigger city if I'm to have any hope. Not blocking because he's still a part of my local community, and I still might need him. He knows how to fix things, and I'm poor. He can tell me how to get to that island in the backcountry I want to find again and can't remember the name of. He still has a box of my xmas ornaments from childhood, my pets, some of my furniture. I have hopes of getting some of that stuff back someday. I mean, I can let it all go if I absolutely have to, but I really don't think he's going to pursue me in any meaningful way. My feelings around his texts/messages are annoyance and confusion. I don't feel a pull to engage deeper. If what you are saying is objectively true, then I guess you have to accept the reality that there is someone for everyone around you, but not you. You somehow are uniquely positioned in the world to be in an romantic wasteland. Or, perhaps your geographic location truly limits your options and you might consider moving, because the numbers and odds, probabilities and whatnot that statistically improve your odds of meeting an available partner could cause you to feel more hopeful. Another option to consider is that your attachment goggles have limited your perspective and you are driven by an attachment dilemma that causes you to see your need as tentacles that scare people, as you wrote. Maybe your scarcity mindset is actually palpable to others and it's a turnoff. Maybe you don't consider suitable mates because they aren't edgy enough for you, or maybe you are putting out vibes online or in person that aren't attractive to emotionally, physically, and sexually available partners. Whatever is true, is something only you can ascertain. I will point out though, your ongoing dilemma with this guy has been described in this one thread as believing the best about him, having pain around his lack of intentions with you, depending on him for different things, and wanting to watch him twist in the wind. Maybe all those things are present at once. At any rate, you are not over your ex and you're trying hard to find another partner and those two realities don't play nice together. Are you thinking you are secure enough to be emotionally available and recognize an emotionally available partner? That's a rhetorical question for you to ponder, or not, I'm not looking for an answer or debate. If you're still struggling with insecurity, unresolved attachment issues, and aren't over your ex, I am not inclined to believe that the issue is primarily actual scarcity. I don't know the demographics of your area, but if it's really so then a move truly might be the only answer. |
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Post by lovebunny on Jun 12, 2023 19:20:37 GMT
"If what you are saying is objectively true, then I guess you have to accept the reality that there is someone for everyone around you, but not you. You somehow are uniquely positioned in the world to be in an romantic wasteland." This is what the world has shown me, since childhood, that for whatever reason, I am simply not allowed at the family table. Logically, I understand this is not accurate. I'm telling myself it's just not my turn right now. It's just my time to be alone for a while, get sorted out. It was just so disappointing, I was in this magical stretch of time where I was engaged in art, feeling fully confident, the center of attention, hopeful, fulfilled and meeting a whole bunch of interesting new people. And there was not a single unattached person of one of the sexual orientations that would work with mine in the mix? It seems almost impossible, like a cosmic joke. Is it possible I met someone appropriate and available and just didn't know it? I dunno, I was being really curious and intentionally engaging with EVERYONE from this place of gratitude, physical attraction aside. "Another option to consider is that your attachment goggles have limited your perspective and you are driven by an attachment dilemma that causes you to see your need as tentacles that scare people, as you wrote. Maybe your scarcity mindset is actually palpable to others and it's a turnoff. Maybe you don't consider suitable mates because they aren't edgy enough for you, or maybe you are putting out vibes online or in person that aren't attractive to emotionally, physically, and sexually available partners." Maybe. This is my confusion. If I'm not attracting partners, it's supposedly my fault because I'm desperate. But, see, if I WAS attracting partners, I wouldn't feel desperate. Chicken and egg. "Are you thinking you are secure enough to be emotionally available and recognize an emotionally available partner?" Well, let's see. Over the last several years I've learned to recognize cluster B personality disorders. I've learned about attachment theory and recognized my own. I've had experiences with peter pans, EU's, avoidants. I have turned down plenty of people who I was able to spot as problematic. This last guy, don't forget, came off as secure and emotionally available throughout the beginning. He was consistent, available, and we moved at a reasonable pace, etc.. I thought I had chosen well, until 6 months in when he dropped the other woman bomb, after making sure I was good and emotionally hooked first. Come to think of it, the FA woman I dated before him came off as secure at first too. I'm apparently unable to cope with with the more subtle signs of unavailability, the ones that don't show up after the honeymoon period. I'm feeling pretty over exbf at this point. I recognize it's not HIM I want, it's a partner, and he's not viable. I'm more upset about being single than I am about not being with him, if that makes sense. mrob I will examine if some part of me is holding out hope of a reunion. I really think I'm just constantly looking to add to my support system, since I don't have close ties to parents, no partner no siblings no kids. I rely on my friendships and community to be my village, and the bigger the village, the better. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 15:39:58 GMT
"If what you are saying is objectively true, then I guess you have to accept the reality that there is someone for everyone around you, but not you. You somehow are uniquely positioned in the world to be in an romantic wasteland." This is what the world has shown me, since childhood, that for whatever reason, I am simply not allowed at the family table. Logically, I understand this is not accurate. I'm telling myself it's just not my turn right now. It's just my time to be alone for a while, get sorted out. It was just so disappointing, I was in this magical stretch of time where I was engaged in art, feeling fully confident, the center of attention, hopeful, fulfilled and meeting a whole bunch of interesting new people. And there was not a single unattached person of one of the sexual orientations that would work with mine in the mix? It seems almost impossible, like a cosmic joke. Is it possible I met someone appropriate and available and just didn't know it? I dunno, I was being really curious and intentionally engaging with EVERYONE from this place of gratitude, physical attraction aside. "Another option to consider is that your attachment goggles have limited your perspective and you are driven by an attachment dilemma that causes you to see your need as tentacles that scare people, as you wrote. Maybe your scarcity mindset is actually palpable to others and it's a turnoff. Maybe you don't consider suitable mates because they aren't edgy enough for you, or maybe you are putting out vibes online or in person that aren't attractive to emotionally, physically, and sexually available partners." Maybe. This is my confusion. If I'm not attracting partners, it's supposedly my fault because I'm desperate. But, see, if I WAS attracting partners, I wouldn't feel desperate. Chicken and egg. "Are you thinking you are secure enough to be emotionally available and recognize an emotionally available partner?" Well, let's see. Over the last several years I've learned to recognize cluster B personality disorders. I've learned about attachment theory and recognized my own. I've had experiences with peter pans, EU's, avoidants. I have turned down plenty of people who I was able to spot as problematic. This last guy, don't forget, came off as secure and emotionally available throughout the beginning. He was consistent, available, and we moved at a reasonable pace, etc.. I thought I had chosen well, until 6 months in when he dropped the other woman bomb, after making sure I was good and emotionally hooked first. Come to think of it, the FA woman I dated before him came off as secure at first too. I'm apparently unable to cope with with the more subtle signs of unavailability, the ones that don't show up after the honeymoon period. I'm feeling pretty over exbf at this point. I recognize it's not HIM I want, it's a partner, and he's not viable. I'm more upset about being single than I am about not being with him, if that makes sense. mrob I will examine if some part of me is holding out hope of a reunion. I really think I'm just constantly looking to add to my support system, since I don't have close ties to parents, no partner no siblings no kids. I rely on my friendships and community to be my village, and the bigger the village, the better. , the beginning of your last relationship, you were looking for acceptance of your poly past and got involved with a partner who identified as poly, then you were surprised when he actually wanted to have a polyamorous relationship 6 months in. The way he handled it was selfish and inexperienced, but not out of bounds in terms of wanting another partner. That drove you out of your mind with anxiety and I'm not judging, I happen to be monogamous so poly is something I wouldn't want in a million years. So it seems the crux of the issue is knowing what your needs and boundaries are before engaging. That goes for ALL types of guys... we can't become experts in spotting toxic behaviors in order to keep ourselves safe, although it helps. The real challenge is to KNOW who we are, where we stand, what we can and can't do, will or won't tolerate, etc. We have to be clear and secure in those things to a larger degree than you have demonstrated. Having that level of self awareness results in eliminating the bargains we strike and the compromises we make out of FEAR, out of insecurity, out of self-doubt or shame. We have to have our own back and love ourselves more than any other person can, because people often have issues and blind spots thst require we SHOW or remind them how to love us, as healthy or as perfect as they seem, they will fail us on some level at some point because no relationship is perfect, no lover is perfect. Especially later in life, we all have some degree of baggage or internal growth to be had. It's a process that spans a lifetime. So the locus of control moves inward. You rely on YOU to understand yourself well enough to walk away or stay depending on what is right for you. That is the ability that is lacking in insecure because of all the confusion, twisted perceptions, shame, fear, you name it. The ability to know and support yourself is critical to picking an available partner, regardless of what dynamics they present with. That is where you will be tested, especially if you enter into dating with the degree of desperation and anxiety that you are struggling with. You will be inclined to compromise and lower your bar in order to have what you want so badly.. a partner. You will be vulnerable to denial, rationalizing, settling, getting caught in the rush of finally finding potential. What it takes to overcome these patterns is more than I ever imagined, a task of diligent self work and self discipline (! Yes it is discipline!) that I thought was unnecessary until I hit bottom with a level of disrespect and exploitation that shook me to the core. |
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Post by lovebunny on Jun 16, 2023 18:16:18 GMT
Comparison is the thief of joy and all, but I'm feeling really down because I just read a review of the play I was just in during Pride. You may recall I played the lover of a much-younger woman in a two woman show.
The review was written by a self-confessed straight guy, and though he raved about my acting--eventually--the first several paragraphs focused on the beautiful younger actress, how riveting she was, he called her "the sexy one," me, the "serious one."
I know it's stupid to feel jealous. The other woman really is talented as hell as well as pretty, she deserves the raves. But oof, the envy right now, the awareness of my age....That random dude has no idea how hard I worked on my body so I'd look good in the scene where I was in my underwear, and how nervous I was to do those kissing scenes. And granted, the part I was playing I was "butch," maybe not appealing to most straight guys, still, I thought I looked cute and brought a little BDE to the part (not his thing I guess :.)
I dunno. I try so hard. I take great care of myself physically, I do things that are outside of my comfort zone, I just finished reading HOW TO DO THE WORK, I don't text my ex.....yet I wind up feeling invisible. Trying to reframe this and be happy that I pulled this off at all, given I'm not as experienced an actress as the younger woman, not as naturally comfortable in my own skin. I know I need thicker skin, this sort of thing is why I stopped doing theater in the first place.
Edit: It occurs to me that the other reviews I saw around the community, pretty much from WOMEN, talked about our "chemistry." Treated me and the other actress equally. This was the first time I felt overlooked in the praise. Ah, the "male gaze."
You know what? Nevermind, I worked through this. I did such a good job portraying a butch gay woman who does NOT want the attention of straight men, that he did not even see me. HE didn't see me, others did.
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Post by mrob on Jun 17, 2023 0:53:53 GMT
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Post by lovebunny on Jun 17, 2023 12:39:53 GMT
Thanks, Mrob. I like how he put that.
I've read articles before about the invisibility of being a middle aged woman, but since I'd always felt kind of invisible, I didn't feel much different throughout my 40's. I've never been conventionally attractive, never tried to be, instead choosing to cultivate my own style, but I was always cute and interesting enough to attract some attention from both men and women.
Now that I'm over 50, I keep a couple white stripes in my hair, and the other day at a party, I'm told someone referred to me as "that silver fox," which I took as a compliment (me and Kenny Rogers, lol.) Physically, I'm in the best shape of my life. I can thank this breakup for that, every time I start to lose it I jump on my paddleboard or bike and go for hours. The other day in the Pride parade, I danced down the street for 2 miles in a blow-up unicorn costume, and realized how strong I am and how much stamina I have. I enjoy my body, even though I'm upset that sex right now isn't happening for me much because my only regular partner is long distance. I really am not ready to give up that part of my life, menopause aside.
I knew what I was getting into when I agreed to take this part, I knew I was going to be up there with this lovely young creature who would suck in the gaze of those who are attracted to conventional female beauty. I was just astounded at how utterly I was overlooked by this reviewer. He only referred to me at all in the context of the play being a 2-woman "tour de force with great actresses." Mentioned my name all of twice, while costar got several paragraphs about her sensuality and physicality, as if I wasn't up there doing the exact same things. I'm trying to convince myself that folks watching who prefer more masculine energy thought I was hot, but I may be kidding myself.
I wonder if part of what killed me about this last breakup was that it was with a straight man, and I've often felt invisible to straight men. Usually, my deeply passionate love was reserved for other women, exbf was the first time I really lost it over a man (exhusband and I were not super-passionate and/or I felt more secure with him.) For a while, exbf made me feel so SEEN, so desirable. I understand now I was just on the receiving end of a sex addiction, but it sure felt real at the time.
I only talked to my lover about how this review made me feel (he assures me I am "a whole n'other level" sexy,) plus you guys here. I don't want to feel in competition with younger women. I WANT that young sister to be lifted up high, so I'm keeping my mouth shut on the issue locally. I would never want it known that I felt jealousy in any way.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 17, 2023 18:02:40 GMT
I feel like any reviewer who can only focus on how physically attractive he found an actor is worthless as a reviewer. There's an entire human experience theater is supposed to cover, and this guy's take sounds like the least nuanced and most missing-the-point take ever, if it's written in the manner you describe.
Hollywood is notorious for ending women's careers by age 40, mostly old men making this decision about what's "commercial" enough, so there's no reason for you to base your own value on one person's subjective opinions, especially when their subjectivity is rooted in shallow beliefs that are going to set you up to fail. Professional theater tends to be a little better with embracing a bigger diversity of people and characters (though it still is far behind and underrepresentative in plenty of ways in this aspect), but look who the producers and reviewers and heads of companies still tend to be demographically before letting them assign your worth. Are these even people with opinions you respect or agree with? Are they really people you'd take advice or feedback from based on how they live their own lives?
I'd be far more appreciative and take the opinions more seriously of the people who were willing to select your play to be performed, and the cast and crew you just spent a lot of time with bringing the work to life. That sounds a lot more like people who want to share and educate on the diversity of human experience, and like those you share values with, than some random dude.
This may be a good time to explore why your self-perceived value and identity is so tied up in how other people subjectively interpret your looks. You're not imagining that society can treat women, especially older women, like forgotten trash, but you don't need to accept that definition for yourself. Do you know it's untrue noise or do you believe deep down that you don't get to assign your own value at all? Are you creating art to stay busy, meet people, and for creating art for its own sake, or are you doing it for external validation only?
Women are not invisible to every man, but they sure can be to misogynists, and this may be partially an issue with who you have been choosing and the issues / level of selfishness they've had, which you've normalized and internalized for yourself in the process. Which is partially why you're now putting one random straight male reviewer's opinion on a pedestal of sorts.
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Post by lovebunny on Jun 17, 2023 22:19:24 GMT
Thanks, Alexandra. Like I said, I know it's stupid. He's no one. His opinion is based on hetero male b**shi*, and I'm pissed because somehow his voice got amplified in the local scene above the women who wrote reviews that weren't all about what straight guys think. It's frustrating on many levels.
Q. "This may be a good time to explore why your self-perceived value and identity is so tied up in how other people subjectively interpret your looks."
A. Um, maybe because I'm a woman in America?? It is very difficult to ignore all the "noise" of society telling us that older women are unattractive and not sexually viable, or that women who don't cater to the male gaze are not sexy. It's hard not to internalize the messages that have been coming at me since before I even had breasts. Normally, it doesn't get to me, but maybe because I was sooo vulnerable on stage this time, and already battling low self-esteem, this one did.
Q. "Are you creating art to stay busy, meet people, and for creating art for its own sake, or are you doing it for external validation only?"
A. Both. My favorite part is actually the process, but I definitely love love love the validation. Feeling the love from a crowd is amazing, especially for those of us who haven't often felt loved and accepted.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 17, 2023 22:29:13 GMT
A. Um, maybe because I'm a woman in America?? It is very difficult to ignore all the "noise" of society telling us that older women are unattractive and not sexually viable, or that women who don't cater to the male gaze are not sexy. It's hard not to internalize the messages that have been coming at me since before I even had breasts. Normally, it doesn't get to me, but maybe because I was sooo vulnerable on stage this time, and already battling low self-esteem, this one did. Right, this is understandable, and it is not stupid or you being stupid that it bothers you. But I'm asking why only superficial gets prioritized above all else here? If you know it's an unreasonable standard put on you by people that don't even have breasts, why does what you think is important not count as much? It's one thing to go deeper and feel rejected in a time of deep vulnerability, which is about something different. But I'm asking you this because when I started challenging my own beauty standards, and realized where they were coming from and they were put on me instead of coming from within me, it helped not only remove the power to make me feel less than but also impacted my own perception of what I was attracted to in others more positively. And this was after decades of having all that pounded into me by society as well, but it's something you can change your perspective on too if it's harming your quality of life. It's not easy, it is very difficult, but it starts with asking questions and not just accepting that society gets to do that to you or that you deserve it. |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 17, 2023 22:40:32 GMT
I'm also suggesting exploring this because you did a great job on something you worked hard on and were proud of yourself, and you should get to keep that feeling. It's okay to be jealous and feel other feelings too, but one reviewer doesn't get to undermine all you accomplished. And if he does get to, then why? Because the answer is definitely not, "whatever, it's stupid" that it bothers you.
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Post by anne12 on Jun 18, 2023 9:25:45 GMT
lovebunny For some reason your post makes me think of this Sex and The city scene with Samantha and Alexa youtu.be/AVHkcVJOiTgPersonally I think “older” / more mature women are more attractive, sexier ect. (I am straight myself) I admire other women with life experience, who often times are more in contact with their own sexuality, their healthy boundaries, their healthy anger ect… It is not only in the US women, who are getting older and who are experiencing peri meno pause, meno pause, are feeling invincible Personally if I were you, I would try to write down all the benefits of becoming older and find some (new) female role models Peri menopause/ menopause is like being a teenager, but in reverse. All the hormonal shifts that is going on can make a lot of women doubting what kind of woman they are becoming. Also it is very normal to feel depressed, to become more sensitive ect. because of the hormonal shifts and the body that is starting to change. Read this post - Women in France ect. - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/50400/- jebkinnisonforum.com/post/50401/“….in many western cultures the non-fertile woman is “over the hill”, done, sad and old. When she can no longer carry life, she has served her purpose and is invisible at best. At worst, useless. In France, the postmenopausal woman has a much higher status. She is free, no longer weighed down by the fear of becoming pregnant involuntarily and can therefore enjoy a more unrestrained sexuality. The mature woman is to French eyes sexy, desirable and not least; interesting. In some cultures, a woman's menopause is considered the gateway she must pass through to access her shamanic and healing powers. Menstrual blood can create life, so when women reach the age where the body retains their "wise blood," they cross the transition to "wise womanhood" by keeping their wise blood inside, and are elevated to priestesses and healers — the spiritual leaders of society. In many "primitive" cultures, menopause gives women higher social status and respect. In Japan, menopause (“konenki”) is believed to begin in the early 40s and last until about the age of 60. If you translate Ko-nen-ki it means: ko = “renewal and regeneration” nen = “year” ki = “season” or “energy.” The connotation is therefore a much longer, more gradual transition, where meno (ie bleeding) is only one (of many) changes….. In peri menopause your body no longer gets the wonderful natural progesterone boost that ovulation triggers. Progesterone deficiency = mood swings, fatigue, sadness, low libido, pms symptoms. And that is why so many women in their 40ties have to walk around feeling beside themselves when it is COMPLETELY NORMAL. Imo hsp women also can get more affected by the changes in hormones than non hsp’s - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/46819/I also have seen studies about women with adhd who are more affected by hormonal changes than non adhd/add women. I am still looking for research on hsp women. Some men wants to see women as forever fertile But: Most perimenopausel, menopausel, postmenopausel women are interested in intelligent men who have a handle on basic biology and who don't need to imagine that ALL women can ALWAYS give birth to their children. It is not infertility but infantilism that is the problem for those men. A man who subscribes to the French model is hot! So the guy who commented on your play doesn’t sound too intelligent…. But I think there will always be men (and some women) like this. Hopefully things will change , as some of us will become almost 80-100 years old.
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