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Post by sunrisequest on Aug 19, 2023 22:37:56 GMT
I'm not sure if you've said what they're like with their own friends and external networks (although maybe impossible for you to truly know this), but family interactions can really trigger the nervous system for some people. And old patterns will play out repeatedly, even if you've done the work on changing those patterns in other areas of your life, or they don't naturally play out in the same way with friends and partners etc.
Anger is a sign that some core needs are not being met in some way... it's a useful feeling to signify that something is not right, but it's what we do with that anger that causes the problems. It sounds like you all trigger each other from what you're saying, so yes, maybe they're in a constant state of fight or flight when you're all together? And although you've done the work to try and manage your reactions... perhaps your family simply don't have those skills?
Something to consider as well is how you react and relate to their dysregulation? Even if you hold your reactions in, does it automatically dysregulate you when they show any signs of anger or frustration? If so, they may be feeling that and feeding off it, so there may be a cycle going on here that needs some interruption?
I recently attended a conflict resolution course, and there was an interesting idea put forward about the different ways people communicate in conflict scenarios, with regards to volume of voice and expression of frustration in your tone... and how in a conflict resolution space, this is not necessarily wrong. Some people have had their voices oppressed, and use of a loud voice can be helpful for healing because they need to be heard in the fullness of their own expression. And as long as it's not abusive, it can be a more authentic way of showing how you really feel, instead of hiding it under calm, neutral tones that still feels passive aggressive to the other person.
Not saying this is what is going on in your family... but this way of thinking about conflict made me realise that I need to increase my tolerance for other people's discomfort and anger, with boundaries of course... but to be able to stay in the presence of someone's frustration (especially if it's at me) without becoming overwhelmed feels like it would be a useful exercise for me, as I grew up in a house where this did not happen at all. And I also need to try and show how I feel in situations that are hurtful, instead of giving the 'perfect answer', the 'perfect reaction' and staying 100% in control of my emotions even when I'm really upset.
Just some things that may be food for thought...
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Post by mrob on Aug 20, 2023 1:15:19 GMT
Anger is a response to fear of those basics not being met. My experience is that it doesn’t necessarily have to be based in fact. If I’m angry, what’s motivating it? For me, it’ll be needs related to sex, security or society (not in that order). That’s pretty broad and encompasses relationships with others to being ripped of financially, to social status, to having somewhere to live. Btw, if I have the right person, Catholics have a process to reconcile their wrongs. Instead of coming to you, cap in hand looking for forgiveness, I’d be suggesting that route. He’s got to walk the walk if he’s going to go on about it at every opportunity.
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Post by anne12 on Aug 20, 2023 10:17:22 GMT
seeking Just because you understand where their actions are coming from, doesn’t necessarily make it okay … But how can you prepare yourself to be able to be with your family Which sentences can you use with different family members When do you have to leave, so that you do not hurt yourself Leaving is also a boundary ect. Setting a boundary with no consequence is not a boundary but just a request
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Post by anne12 on Aug 20, 2023 11:17:45 GMT
It can work differently for neurodivergent people , people with Asperger’s ect. Their brain is wired differently than neurotypical people
My teacher has got an adult son with Asperger’s and I have dated men with Asperger’s - I found out when I met their family as other family members also had Asperger’s For me it sometimes was like a total different language - maybe also because of mind blindness Boundary setting was different
Maybe there are some special resources for people with Asperger’s ect.
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Post by anne12 on Aug 20, 2023 11:52:14 GMT
jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1590/advise-family-gatherings-christmas-griefYou can visualize your meetings with your family You can as I wrote make a script when you have to interact with your sister Make a script when you have to interact with your dad It seems more or less predictable what they say and how they act Write the sentences down on paper and practice every day You can have it in your purse/on your smart phone and go to the toilet if you forget what to say Expecially for people with a passive anger pattern it is a good idea with “come back” sentences you can use in different situations with different people I have a list I can look at myself - I have learned 111 sentences I can use in different situations with different people I haven’t posted them on the board Some people get energized by making drama, by making you confused ect.
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Post by seeking on Aug 20, 2023 13:38:51 GMT
My dad came to church late in life. I grew up Catholic and he never went to church, just laid on the couch in a depression most of my childhood (and worked). On very rare occasions, he interacted with me - either helping me ride a bike, taking me fishing or to a show, or on a few occasions yelling at me and scaring me.
He was violent toward my mom and I would hide under a table.
To this day, I have his violent aggression overcoupled with him (and probably men). Long story short, but when I finally faced my escalating driving anxiety, I pulled over one time having a panic attack and tried to explore the dark feeling that was coming up and it was the fear that my dad hated me and wanted to kill me. So there's that.
I stopped having a relationship with him for years out of survival/necessity, but still always longed to have a relationship - mostly with a dad/dad figure.
It was at the start of the pandemic that I did specific therapy to help remove the blocks so I could be in a room with him and not regret it if he died. A car accident later, a huge bout of double-covid pneumonia, and he's still ticking and I've actually been having a relationship with him that's clearly super complex. And I still work on all this in therapy. Most people may have walked away but I guess I have a belief that there's something here I need to explore (and there is).
Anyway, it was around the pandemic I think that he started going to church but it had to be Latin mass as everything else was too modern, and he took my mom from her community, criticizing her ways... which hurt my heart (since my mom was the one who had faithfully gone for her whole life).
His anger is still explosive. I recall one time that we talked about it. When he came after me as an adult and I ran out of the house. He still scares me.
My daughter stood up to him at dinner the other night and her cousins joined her. It was wild to see and I knew that my mother sister and I were super uncomfortable. He told my daughter, "You stick by your family no matter what." And my daughter later laughed to me about that. I'm glad. I'm glad she's free enough in herself to have that perspective and feel safe enough to talk back and later laugh.
My sister later told me that she understood why he was saying what he was but that the girls were perpetuating it by standing up to him. It was like this was normal for her?
Anyway, like I said, I do understand anger and really love what Karla McLaren has to say about it in her book Language of Emotions - and maybe it's even online, but I guess what I don't understand (though I guess I kind of do) is the piles of anger.... my sense is that it is trauma and brain-based. That there's a disorder -- a chronic threat response and a hair trigger toward that like an abused animal. I don't know. But it's just really acute.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 15:24:02 GMT
I just read something helpful to me about the yin/yang approach to self care.
The yin element would be the comforting aspect of self care, recognizing and soothing your feelings with some self love and compassion. The Yang element would be the protective aspect of self care, saying No, taking action to protect yourself or positive action to meet a need.
It seems that those two elements of self care can be employed in order to create balance and true empowerment.
It also seems that those two elements can be applied to caring for others... recognizing their feelings and the conditions that they face, while also having an expectation that certain behaviors be avoided when interacting with you.
The masculine and feminine ways of being, in partnership together.
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Post by mrob on Aug 20, 2023 15:38:41 GMT
So he really hasn’t changed, just added the Church for respectability or insurance. Goodness, what a terrible shame. Being that close to revolution in one’s own life, but not even scraping the surface. I’m sorry about your own trauma around him and by extension, men. Today, I sat alongside my ex-wife at our daughter’s performance and she cried at a song. I know it’s my behaviour in particular that caused that, and there’s bugger all I can do about it except keep trying to be a good co-parent. It’s the only amends I can make without causing more harm or compounding old trauma. I’d say it’s not his business to cause trauma unchecked either. Strangely enough, my experience with men in adulthood is that they respect people who stand up for themselves, like your daughter, but it’s like being scared of a rabid dog, they can smell it a mile off and it can turn into a terribly abusive situation.
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Post by seeking on Aug 21, 2023 2:00:29 GMT
So he really hasn’t changed, just added the Church for respectability or insurance. Goodness, what a terrible shame. Being that close to revolution in one’s own life, but not even scraping the surface. I’m sorry about your own trauma around him and by extension, men. Today, I sat alongside my ex-wife at our daughter’s performance and she cried at a song. I know it’s my behaviour in particular that caused that, and there’s bugger all I can do about it except keep trying to be a good co-parent. It’s the only amends I can make without causing more harm or compounding old trauma. I’d say it’s not his business to cause trauma unchecked either. Strangely enough, my experience with men in adulthood is that they respect people who stand up for themselves, like your daughter, but it’s like being scared of a rabid dog, they can smell it a mile off and it can turn into a terribly abusive situation. That's interesting mrob. I attend church and today they were talking (of all things) about "intervening love" -- and they had us do a practice and it was my dad. It was the first time I imagined standing up to him and saying, "Your behavior is not okay." And to actually see that as an act of love. I'm still sitting with it. I was also just heartened to see - given my daughter's situation - the way her dad is, the way my dad is, my own history of abusive relationships, that she isn't broken - that she stood up. I hope she can hold on to that.
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Post by seeking on Aug 21, 2023 2:07:31 GMT
Some people get energized by making drama, by making you confused ect. My sense is that it matches what he's feeling inside. That he feels out of control, chaotic - dysregulated - and it's really hard for him to simply sit and connect. I feel like I used to be really self-absorbed like how my ex and my sister are. But I also know I was dealing with a lot of dissociation, survival mode and I put the work in to do a lot of healing (a lot of it with simply faith - no idea where I was going just that I was in too much pain and had to do something). Thankfully, I now get to experience what it's like to be in another person's presence and genuinely inquire how they are doing and not always make it about me. My dad is very social, but he's completely wrapped up in himself, in his own mind and his own world. I had a friend tonight say that it's like no one in her family actually knew each other. That strikes me as really sad. The potential for having such close relationships, love, but that everyone sits around a table and is wrapped up in their own dysfunction and dysregulation.
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