Post by ohboy on Aug 13, 2023 20:45:27 GMT
I am a healing DA with an unaware FA partner. Part 1 gave some history.
We have been apart for 8 months. We have remained in contact and have seen each other during this time but at this point he is not sure if he is ready to return home when his project ends. The roller coaster ride is real. If we have a solid connected and fruitful conversation then the relationship is wonderful and he wants to come home. If we have a challenging conversation, the relationship is terrible and he doesn't want to come home.
I am a healing DA and have reached the point where I now have a voice and I am comfortable articulating what I am thinking and what I am feeling instead of silence. During the first 2 months of our separation my FA was on the edge. He was questioning why he was on earth, that he didn't deserve love. He refused to call his doctor, refused to take his meds to control his blood pressure. Ended up in the ER multiple times to ultimately and finally be told by a physician that if he did not take his meds he would have a stroke and/or die and he had to choose if he wanted to live. Over this time (and it is continuing) he is not sleeping, gained weight and is becoming more and more unhealthy. I reminded him that I loved him and that I was still standing with him. I told him that I know that the new version of myself is different and I hope he likes her. I even told him early in my healing process that I inherently, due to childhood trauma find confrontation in my intimate relationships scary and that because of this I often found it challenging and sometimes scary to talk to him. because he could become very defensive and hurtful. He said that he did not want me to be scared to talk to him.
I should also share that I have shared every part of my healing journey with my FA partner with the hope that he would begin to see how his past pain was impacting every aspect of his present. . I have shared with him the shocking discovery that in reality I had been doing to everyone I loved EXACTLY what had been done to me. (emotionally dismissed, ignored, not asking or caring about emotional wellbeing etc). I shared the secrets of my childhood experiences as they surfaced. But I never got anything back. No validation, no sense that he has the slightest idea, interest or empathy of what I experienced. Just silence, listening. I've known my FA partner for over 30 years so I know some of the truth about the trauma in his life, loss, mother issues, abandonment, betrayal.......lots of unresolved stuff. He is currently estranged from his mother, his siblings and his children. He has cut off all friends saying that he is ending all "toxic" relationships (toxic more than likely means that they challenge him or make him feel uncomfortable or both). He has no awareness that he is the common demonitator
1. My FA says that I broke the relationship and so it is my responsibility to fix it. I've asked him what can I do to fix it, he says he doesn't know.I have conceded repeatedly that I known that my mental health crisis left him feeling alone and abandoned. I accept full responsibility for having initially made bad decisions that lead me down that path that ultimately did impact him. When I was better able to describe to him the mental, emotional and physical experience he would say, " I know. I was there". During these conversations I felt no compassion, no grace and as I continued to heal told him how I felt. I told him that I felt that he was punishing me and was resentful of the toll that my illness had taken on our future (we had some financial goals that were not met) . I told him that I had never experienced any "joy" that he was happy that I had survived; no compassion, that he understood just how bad it had been; or grace that he understood I had not been myself and had not purposefully emotionally abandoned him. I told him that there had been no premeditated or strategic plan to hurt him. I told him that it felt like a person who had been diagnosed with cancer, gone thru the horror of chemotherapy and survived and his/her partner is only focused on the impact that it had on him/her. I had the feeling that he was angry about the whole experience.that he was resentful.............he denied that was the case. We both agree that we do not want to go back to the relationship as it was.
2. He says he wants to be seen, heard and valued, and I have told him that I want that too. Those are great buzz words and so I probe for more detail. I asked him what did "being seen" look like for him? When met with silence I shared what it looked like to me and it meant being "known" and being interested in not only who I am but how I became that. What does being "heard" look like for him, again silence. I pressed, was it about being "obeyed" or understood? No response, I shared with him that being heard to me was not about being right it was about interest, consideration and even curiosity for my perspective and dialogue about it. So is it real that he knows what he wants and can recognize it when he gets it or he really can't?
3. He demonstrates all of the behaviors he hates (just like I did before I became aware). He hates being dismissed, but he is a major dismisser and when you call him out on it he will say, "oh well."; he hates to be interrupted while talking but will not let you get a word in edge wise; He is binary, there is no grey area. It's right or wrong, good or bad, perfect or wrong. Doesn't care if it happened on purpose or by accident just the end result; Thinks he is emotionally available because he feels deeply, wants emotional validation, but does not give it; Says he wants emotional intimacy, talks about emotional intimacy but is only superficially vulnerable; The word "no" is a big trigger for him.......but he will say it to others without any explanation why it is no; He hates others being directive towards him but is always "telling" others what they should do" often unsolicited in even the most minute things. He takes it personally if you do not follow his advice; He hides behind humor, he is always joking, endless bits; Something unknown will trigger him and he has disrupted family events with the kids but just getting angry and disappearing, then comes back like nothing happened. I have shared with him some of these experiences and I get no response. As I have healed I have shared with him that there appeared to be triggers and isn't he even a little be curious why? That there is a "there there". His response "just stop doing it"
4. I recently suggested to him that we see a couples counselor. That we are at an impasse. He has refused saying that we need to have a discussion about my wants and needs to see if we can meet them or not. I told him that we had been circling this wagon for months and I thought it would be helpful to have a 3rd party help us because we were staring at a tree and clearly could not see the forest and that I was willing to pull out all the stops before I threw in the towel. He judged me and told me how ridiculous it was for me to even suggest a thing. I told him that I should feel safe and comfortable talking to him about anything and nothing should be off the table.
5. He repeatedly brings up the past. The past being my emotional absence during my mental health crisis and that I broke the relationship. I told him AGAIN that I recognize the impact that it had on him and that I can't go back and change it. But that today I am a very different person. I told him that we both agree that neither of us want to return to the relationship as it was and to do that lots had to change. I shared that I had really appreciated all the support and care he had given during that scary period and I know that he had done his best. I told him that it was very obvious how much he loved me because I knew that in any other relationship he would have just walked away (I'd seen him in action in other relationships for 30 yrs) and I fully appreciated the turmoil that that had created internally for him. I told him that if the relationship was going to survive, we needed help understanding the dysfunctional dance that we were doing so that we could break the cycle and we would have to do it together because it was a dynamic between us. His response, " why do I have to be broken?" I asked him how could he possibly think that like me, with all of the trauma of his life experiences he could could have possibly escaped with no wounds?
6. He also has the "perfection thing". When having a conversation with him and you try and paraphrase what you heard, unless you use the "exact same words" he will say, I don't think you understand. I tested it.........the words MUST be exact. He often says that he doesn't understand why I don't listen to him because he is usually 96% right. He has very strong positions on his opinions or perspective. In some cases I feel strongly too but generally I am more open to the fact that there is a host of other perspectives. If I am not married to one I will out loud explore them.......Drives him crazy. He wants to give cooking directions, down to how I chop the vegetables. I told him that he was stealing my joy around caring for him by being so directive. (I use to cook anything for him and he would be exceedingly happy)
7. He is feels deeply but has a hard time naming what he is feeling. He actually avoids using the word "feelings" and will refer to them as "experiences".
8. He will share his experiences a lot, his feelings. I told him that although he shares what he is experiencing he had not once asked me what "my" experience was. I asked him why was that. I told him I had seen it as a pattern. That he was at odds with his siblings and asked if he had ever sat down with them to talk about what was the underlying cause of their ongoing conflict. I told him it could be a trust issue a hurt issue and or an event that has lived on because it has been unaddressed (they have spend years on and off estranged from each other). He responded that he had recently spoke to one of his brothers and they had just accepted that they just had to accept each other the way they were. They never breached the way
9. See all the bad, none of the good. Several years ago he went on an exercise bing. He had untreated high blood pressure and refused to take meds. He was working out 8 hours a day. As a former athlete (which he is not} I told him that that routine was not sustainable. Besides that left me to work all day (and it was a pressure cooker) care for the house and family. I suggested a more moderate consistent approach that would yield slower but sustainable results. He did it for months before he stopped and subsequently gain all of the weight back plus more. He said he felt like I did not support him. A year later he went on a fad diet of very limited calories. He did not discuss it with me just bought everything to support the program. It was a terrible idea but because I knew that he felt that I did not support him the first time I kept silent. The new program required a restricted calories, limited types of food, and special preparation of 3 meals and 2 snacks a day! I was responsible for all shopping and food preparation. ( I was working a full time job also and we were still in covid) He was so weak from the lack of calories that he was irritable and spend most of his time laying around. This went on for 4 months. He lost the weight. I told him that I wanted to encourage him to keep it off because I would never support that type of weight loss plan again that it was dangerous. I suggested that he talk to his doctor to get connected to a dietician.. he did not. Within 2 months he gained all the weight back. Fast forward to today. He just remembers the first exercise plan and that I didn't support him (not why). He doesn't even bring up the sacrifices that I made to support him for the second crazy plan. Its now my fault that his BP is not under control, it's now my fault that he is overweight
How do you have a reasonable conversation with someone who can distort reality to this degree? It is very obvious to me that he has almost zero self awareness.
Can you help me understand this from a FA's point of view
We have been apart for 8 months. We have remained in contact and have seen each other during this time but at this point he is not sure if he is ready to return home when his project ends. The roller coaster ride is real. If we have a solid connected and fruitful conversation then the relationship is wonderful and he wants to come home. If we have a challenging conversation, the relationship is terrible and he doesn't want to come home.
I am a healing DA and have reached the point where I now have a voice and I am comfortable articulating what I am thinking and what I am feeling instead of silence. During the first 2 months of our separation my FA was on the edge. He was questioning why he was on earth, that he didn't deserve love. He refused to call his doctor, refused to take his meds to control his blood pressure. Ended up in the ER multiple times to ultimately and finally be told by a physician that if he did not take his meds he would have a stroke and/or die and he had to choose if he wanted to live. Over this time (and it is continuing) he is not sleeping, gained weight and is becoming more and more unhealthy. I reminded him that I loved him and that I was still standing with him. I told him that I know that the new version of myself is different and I hope he likes her. I even told him early in my healing process that I inherently, due to childhood trauma find confrontation in my intimate relationships scary and that because of this I often found it challenging and sometimes scary to talk to him. because he could become very defensive and hurtful. He said that he did not want me to be scared to talk to him.
I should also share that I have shared every part of my healing journey with my FA partner with the hope that he would begin to see how his past pain was impacting every aspect of his present. . I have shared with him the shocking discovery that in reality I had been doing to everyone I loved EXACTLY what had been done to me. (emotionally dismissed, ignored, not asking or caring about emotional wellbeing etc). I shared the secrets of my childhood experiences as they surfaced. But I never got anything back. No validation, no sense that he has the slightest idea, interest or empathy of what I experienced. Just silence, listening. I've known my FA partner for over 30 years so I know some of the truth about the trauma in his life, loss, mother issues, abandonment, betrayal.......lots of unresolved stuff. He is currently estranged from his mother, his siblings and his children. He has cut off all friends saying that he is ending all "toxic" relationships (toxic more than likely means that they challenge him or make him feel uncomfortable or both). He has no awareness that he is the common demonitator
1. My FA says that I broke the relationship and so it is my responsibility to fix it. I've asked him what can I do to fix it, he says he doesn't know.I have conceded repeatedly that I known that my mental health crisis left him feeling alone and abandoned. I accept full responsibility for having initially made bad decisions that lead me down that path that ultimately did impact him. When I was better able to describe to him the mental, emotional and physical experience he would say, " I know. I was there". During these conversations I felt no compassion, no grace and as I continued to heal told him how I felt. I told him that I felt that he was punishing me and was resentful of the toll that my illness had taken on our future (we had some financial goals that were not met) . I told him that I had never experienced any "joy" that he was happy that I had survived; no compassion, that he understood just how bad it had been; or grace that he understood I had not been myself and had not purposefully emotionally abandoned him. I told him that there had been no premeditated or strategic plan to hurt him. I told him that it felt like a person who had been diagnosed with cancer, gone thru the horror of chemotherapy and survived and his/her partner is only focused on the impact that it had on him/her. I had the feeling that he was angry about the whole experience.that he was resentful.............he denied that was the case. We both agree that we do not want to go back to the relationship as it was.
2. He says he wants to be seen, heard and valued, and I have told him that I want that too. Those are great buzz words and so I probe for more detail. I asked him what did "being seen" look like for him? When met with silence I shared what it looked like to me and it meant being "known" and being interested in not only who I am but how I became that. What does being "heard" look like for him, again silence. I pressed, was it about being "obeyed" or understood? No response, I shared with him that being heard to me was not about being right it was about interest, consideration and even curiosity for my perspective and dialogue about it. So is it real that he knows what he wants and can recognize it when he gets it or he really can't?
3. He demonstrates all of the behaviors he hates (just like I did before I became aware). He hates being dismissed, but he is a major dismisser and when you call him out on it he will say, "oh well."; he hates to be interrupted while talking but will not let you get a word in edge wise; He is binary, there is no grey area. It's right or wrong, good or bad, perfect or wrong. Doesn't care if it happened on purpose or by accident just the end result; Thinks he is emotionally available because he feels deeply, wants emotional validation, but does not give it; Says he wants emotional intimacy, talks about emotional intimacy but is only superficially vulnerable; The word "no" is a big trigger for him.......but he will say it to others without any explanation why it is no; He hates others being directive towards him but is always "telling" others what they should do" often unsolicited in even the most minute things. He takes it personally if you do not follow his advice; He hides behind humor, he is always joking, endless bits; Something unknown will trigger him and he has disrupted family events with the kids but just getting angry and disappearing, then comes back like nothing happened. I have shared with him some of these experiences and I get no response. As I have healed I have shared with him that there appeared to be triggers and isn't he even a little be curious why? That there is a "there there". His response "just stop doing it"
4. I recently suggested to him that we see a couples counselor. That we are at an impasse. He has refused saying that we need to have a discussion about my wants and needs to see if we can meet them or not. I told him that we had been circling this wagon for months and I thought it would be helpful to have a 3rd party help us because we were staring at a tree and clearly could not see the forest and that I was willing to pull out all the stops before I threw in the towel. He judged me and told me how ridiculous it was for me to even suggest a thing. I told him that I should feel safe and comfortable talking to him about anything and nothing should be off the table.
5. He repeatedly brings up the past. The past being my emotional absence during my mental health crisis and that I broke the relationship. I told him AGAIN that I recognize the impact that it had on him and that I can't go back and change it. But that today I am a very different person. I told him that we both agree that neither of us want to return to the relationship as it was and to do that lots had to change. I shared that I had really appreciated all the support and care he had given during that scary period and I know that he had done his best. I told him that it was very obvious how much he loved me because I knew that in any other relationship he would have just walked away (I'd seen him in action in other relationships for 30 yrs) and I fully appreciated the turmoil that that had created internally for him. I told him that if the relationship was going to survive, we needed help understanding the dysfunctional dance that we were doing so that we could break the cycle and we would have to do it together because it was a dynamic between us. His response, " why do I have to be broken?" I asked him how could he possibly think that like me, with all of the trauma of his life experiences he could could have possibly escaped with no wounds?
6. He also has the "perfection thing". When having a conversation with him and you try and paraphrase what you heard, unless you use the "exact same words" he will say, I don't think you understand. I tested it.........the words MUST be exact. He often says that he doesn't understand why I don't listen to him because he is usually 96% right. He has very strong positions on his opinions or perspective. In some cases I feel strongly too but generally I am more open to the fact that there is a host of other perspectives. If I am not married to one I will out loud explore them.......Drives him crazy. He wants to give cooking directions, down to how I chop the vegetables. I told him that he was stealing my joy around caring for him by being so directive. (I use to cook anything for him and he would be exceedingly happy)
7. He is feels deeply but has a hard time naming what he is feeling. He actually avoids using the word "feelings" and will refer to them as "experiences".
8. He will share his experiences a lot, his feelings. I told him that although he shares what he is experiencing he had not once asked me what "my" experience was. I asked him why was that. I told him I had seen it as a pattern. That he was at odds with his siblings and asked if he had ever sat down with them to talk about what was the underlying cause of their ongoing conflict. I told him it could be a trust issue a hurt issue and or an event that has lived on because it has been unaddressed (they have spend years on and off estranged from each other). He responded that he had recently spoke to one of his brothers and they had just accepted that they just had to accept each other the way they were. They never breached the way
9. See all the bad, none of the good. Several years ago he went on an exercise bing. He had untreated high blood pressure and refused to take meds. He was working out 8 hours a day. As a former athlete (which he is not} I told him that that routine was not sustainable. Besides that left me to work all day (and it was a pressure cooker) care for the house and family. I suggested a more moderate consistent approach that would yield slower but sustainable results. He did it for months before he stopped and subsequently gain all of the weight back plus more. He said he felt like I did not support him. A year later he went on a fad diet of very limited calories. He did not discuss it with me just bought everything to support the program. It was a terrible idea but because I knew that he felt that I did not support him the first time I kept silent. The new program required a restricted calories, limited types of food, and special preparation of 3 meals and 2 snacks a day! I was responsible for all shopping and food preparation. ( I was working a full time job also and we were still in covid) He was so weak from the lack of calories that he was irritable and spend most of his time laying around. This went on for 4 months. He lost the weight. I told him that I wanted to encourage him to keep it off because I would never support that type of weight loss plan again that it was dangerous. I suggested that he talk to his doctor to get connected to a dietician.. he did not. Within 2 months he gained all the weight back. Fast forward to today. He just remembers the first exercise plan and that I didn't support him (not why). He doesn't even bring up the sacrifices that I made to support him for the second crazy plan. Its now my fault that his BP is not under control, it's now my fault that he is overweight
How do you have a reasonable conversation with someone who can distort reality to this degree? It is very obvious to me that he has almost zero self awareness.
Can you help me understand this from a FA's point of view
