KAI
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by KAI on Sept 17, 2023 18:32:01 GMT
Hello there,
here is an update on my situation from this summer and my supposedly FA-"ex". We managed to reconnect, and event though they are not aware per se of them being FA, and don't put a word on it, we had several talks where they were exposing their fearful side showing they kind of know. They are not to the point of taking accountability for a very questionable behaviour that they had, but i will start from that. I now know what they are capable of, it doesn't make them a bad person, but it shows me what i can and cannot expect from them.
I cannot expect to be supported at all times. It might come, as they already showed up in the past but i shouldn't count on that, as it might not be consitent. They are definitely not the best partner in this sense of bringing support, but once you know about it, then .. you find support somewhere else. And probably you put the focus back on you.
This is really the point of this post. The focus is finally back on me. I spent the whole summer (it's 3 months of that really) putting back the pieces together of my struggling love life, and i came to several realization. First, i feel very strong. I felt more grounded i ever was in a breakup this time, and i found those hours of reading books about attachment style, but mostly this forum in and out to finally show amazing results. I was very calm with what my "ex" put me through considering, and i very quickly was ok to let it go. Now i'm at the same time ok to let it go if it doesn't work out this second time around, but ok to give this a chance in a totally different format.
This is a very empowering position.
I also started dating other people, and as i suspected, right now it is offering a very good tool for me to work on this anxious leaning attachment style. Dating several people, and keeping my options open, in this moment of my life is a way i found to put myself back in the center, and not getting focused on just one individual, hence putting a lot of pressure on the relationship. It feels good to be able to stay a little distant as my natural AP instinct would be to go closer and closer and closer until i lose myself in the process.
I'm also open, if this so happens that i meet somebody with whom i can have the secure relationship i would like to have to some point, to maybe propose to go back to monogamy..
Now this ex circled back after a lot of push-pull and even though they are serving me the classic "let's not put a label on it", they seem to want to try and work something out. They have limited tools attachment theory wise, and can show a bit of bad faith at times (out of pride and not wanting to recognise they "did wrong", in a very child-like manner), but they will say it in another indirect way, and right now it's working for me. I see a lot through them, and am more able to read in between the lines as well as able to create a safe space for them to communicate their needs and mine.
I know that some of you folks might reply to this post to tell me that this is a dangerous path, that some of you already tried that (i'm thinking of Alexandra that is often refering to becoming more secure in the process of dating an FA, and that the outcome was the same when she was secure // when she was AP) but i think i read so much the stories here that i already know about it, and i'm going there in my own will, knowing that it might bring more disappointment. But i think at this point i might not even be "disappointed" so much as accepting that at least i tried, and now i can move on.
My mood is to take what comes, not expecting too much, and mostly working on filling my own needs myself. This relationship, as the others i am/will have should only come on top of me being already ok with me and my life.
Thanks for reading, feedbacks and tips appreciated anyway
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Post by alexandra on Sept 17, 2023 20:04:09 GMT
I cannot expect to be supported at all times. LOL, I wouldn't call it a dangerous path if you're aware of the likely outcomes, but I would say you're selling yourself short if you accept a lack of support in a romantic relationship, especially to the extent that you're looking elsewhere for support to compensate. You shouldn't put all expectations of support on one person, this is why it's good to have a diversity of other people around (partner, friends, family, multiple partners if you're set on poly romantic relationships), but you should still expect the person will consistently be supportive. Regardless, sometimes the best way to learn more about yourself and what you want is to have the experience, so I wish you luck in finding what you're looking for if you are going to circle back with the ex! In my situation, as you know, circling back the second time taught me that it was never going to work and it was time to fully move on. That was very valuable, though.
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KAI
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by KAI on Sept 17, 2023 20:28:31 GMT
Thanks Alexandra, i think anyway, if it is to not work out, i still need to experience it myself just like you did, and then call it quits. I am ready to do that. Now, about the support, it's true that the 1st time, there was a moment that they stopped being supportive, and it was painful. But, I also have to clean in front of my house and admit i was expecting them to give me the exact same support i was giving them. And as an AP, and quite a people pleaser, i over extended myself in the area of giving and supporting towards the end, and they ran the opposite way. So, yeah, i need to try something different than playing my part in the anxious-avoidant dance, and see what fruits it will give. I know you tried that and it didnt work, but i have to see myself to the bottom of it, and maybe get a little more experience out of that. Let's see. Thanks for all your precious insights and warnings. I feel i'm growing, and that's what matters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2023 0:46:22 GMT
I also had to walk through my experiences rather than simply analyze, cognitively understand, and then make a decision based solely on the analysis. In other words, I did what you are doing. I shone the light of awareness on the situation as I was still in it, and moved through it, to gain the deep understanding that allowed me to move out of the situation. The last relationship I was in before my current one (which is healthy and supportive) was very much that way.
In some cases, when the situation is very damaging, the willingness to stay in it is tied to a weakness. But, in some cases, it can actually be fruitful, as you test out what you think you know about yourself and how you want to operate. It's a chance to practice what you are learning, and find out what you need to do to move forward in your own personal growth.
Find out for yourself, it's valuable experience and as long as you aren't in danger, you will likely be better for it.
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KAI
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by KAI on Sept 19, 2023 7:12:54 GMT
Hello,
yes Introvert, this is exactly how i am trying to see things. For an insecure person, it is going to be triggering to be in a relationship. Now i gathered some experience through the years an mostly i did it the hard way, while i was dating unavailable people, i slowly started dealing with that as i realised i was AP, or AP leaning, and the work happened. Now i am definitely feeling more secure, in myself to start with, and confident in accepting the ways of my partners not judging them through my lens or through how I WOULD DO things only, and i feel ready to use my love encounters as more opportunies to grow and confront myself with my triggers.
I think there might be another way than staying alone to work on your traumas, then thinking you are secure (because being alone is not triggering you), then going back in a relationship only to witness all your patiently acquired wisdom to crumble.. This is extremely empowering. As an (secure) anxious leaning person (and being aware of that, and willing to keep growing), being with an avoidant is also definitely a way of challenging your ways, and you don't have to victimize yourself about that. It can make your ways and triggers more obvious, and maybe from there , you can build that emotional muscle that will allow you to self-regulate more easily.
Now to go back to Alexandra's word of cautiousness about me "selling me short", first, i have the feeling that this person might be more ready to show up if i don't expect more than what they can give, or if they don't feel pressured to do so. And anyway, if i was on my own, i would have to address my needs not automatically through them but through various different sources. I kind of accepted that, and right now, it is working for me. I have this strong image of a cat. I am a dog lover, because they have this consistent way of behaving, and they are a bit the anxious p of the animal world but recently, i got to get fonder of cats as well, and maybe that's a good image : the way to go with a cat is not to try and pin them down. They will come in their own time, and they can be super loving when they choose to be so, and then for no reason, they are gone again. If you are not okay with that, then yes, you'd better give up on cats... I apologise for this really poor image, but it is early in the morning, hehe. HAVE A GOOD DAY YOU ALL.
Just wanted to propose another alternative, and to each his/her path i love this forum for how it is presenting so many super intimate and individual ways of dealing with love
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2023 14:00:00 GMT
Hello,
yes Introvert, this is exactly how i am trying to see things. For an insecure person, it is going to be triggering to be in a relationship. Now i gathered some experience through the years an mostly i did it the hard way, while i was dating unavailable people, i slowly started dealing with that as i realised i was AP, or AP leaning, and the work happened. Now i am definitely feeling more secure, in myself to start with, and confident in accepting the ways of my partners not judging them through my lens or through how I WOULD DO things only, and i feel ready to use my love encounters as more opportunies to grow and confront myself with my triggers.
I think there might be another way than staying alone to work on your traumas, then thinking you are secure (because being alone is not triggering you), then going back in a relationship only to witness all your patiently acquired wisdom to crumble.. This is extremely empowering. As an (secure) anxious leaning person (and being aware of that, and willing to keep growing), being with an avoidant is also definitely a way of challenging your ways, and you don't have to victimize yourself about that. It can make your ways and triggers more obvious, and maybe from there , you can build that emotional muscle that will allow you to self-regulate more easily.
Now to go back to Alexandra's word of cautiousness about me "selling me short", first, i have the feeling that this person might be more ready to show up if i don't expect more than what they can give, or if they don't feel pressured to do so. And anyway, if i was on my own, i would have to address my needs not automatically through them but through various different sources. I kind of accepted that, and right now, it is working for me. I have this strong image of a cat. I am a dog lover, because they have this consistent way of behaving, and they are a bit the anxious p of the animal world but recently, i got to get fonder of cats as well, and maybe that's a good image : the way to go with a cat is not to try and pin them down. They will come in their own time, and they can be super loving when they choose to be so, and then for no reason, they are gone again. If you are not okay with that, then yes, you'd better give up on cats... I apologise for this really poor image, but it is early in the morning, hehe. HAVE A GOOD DAY YOU ALL.
Just wanted to propose another alternative, and to each his/her path i love this forum for how it is presenting so many super intimate and individual ways of dealing with love
With the kind of awareness you have, it would be disrespectful to discount your approach, in my opinion. I did the same thing, I made much more progress while actually in a dysfunctional relationship than while single because.... exactly as you say, I wasn't triggered out of relationship. I was lonely, but didn't have to confront any of the issues surrounding avoidance of intimacy. And continue to grow in the relationship I am in. It's funny you bring up cats and dogs, I have thought of attachment that way as well. I am NOT a dog person, dogs are simply too much for me, and even my cat can be too much! I really notice my boundaries around domestic animals. Even though animals are interested in me, me my nervous system feels overwhelmed unless they are very well trained and reserved. I'm HSP though and that could be why. Anyway, I suspect that this is a segment of your journey and not your destination, as the full human intimate connection requires consistency and reciprocity. Both AP and DA refuse true intimacy when it presents itself due to their own internal blocks. So for now, to observe yourself may yield valuable insights, yes! But keep in mind, AP's go for avoidants because they arent able to tolerate true intimacy either. So a cat-type that once triggered you may not bother you so much now, but they ultimately could privide a dynamic to hide out in and remain on the edge of relating in a healthy way without actually getting there. You will need to explore it for yourself and see if that's the case for you. I graduated to higher levels of relating as I went, I can't fault you!
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Post by cherrycola on Sept 19, 2023 14:20:57 GMT
There is a caveat to this.
"Now to go back to Alexandra's word of cautiousness about me "selling me short", first, i have the feeling that this person might be more ready to show up if i don't expect more than what they can give, or if they don't feel pressured to do so"
The problem with someone with attachment injuries is even if you are honestly not expecting them to show up for you, they may feel that pressure themselves. Those expectations will then cause them to shut down. That's the problem with relating with someone who isn't working on their own side of the street. They have their own crazy stories in their head that can be detached from reality. And they aren't going to even believe you if you say otherwise.
But I understand that this is something you'll need to discover for yourself.
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Post by SpeakCzar on Sept 19, 2023 14:57:02 GMT
There is a caveat to this. "Now to go back to Alexandra's word of cautiousness about me "selling me short", first, i have the feeling that this person might be more ready to show up if i don't expect more than what they can give, or if they don't feel pressured to do so" The problem with someone with attachment injuries is even if you are honestly not expecting them to show up for you, they may feel that pressure themselves. Those expectations will then cause them to shut down. That's the problem with relating with someone who isn't working on their own side of the street. They have their own crazy stories in their head that can be detached from reality. And they aren't going to even believe you if you say otherwise. But I understand that this is something you'll need to discover for yourself. I second this. In my experience, even if you fully embody a “come to me as you are”, and “I love you for you”, in your approach to an insecurely attached person in the relationship, it has backfired on me in a past relationship. I believe this to be for one of two reasons, the first, this “unconditional love” approach, and radical acceptance, puts covert pressure on your partner. It does so because you’re in a way “too good for them”. I have a theory that you’d be more likely to sustain a relationship with an insecurely attached individual if you exhibit toxic traits yourself. We accept the love we feel we deserve. The second reason I felt like it back fired was that if we are being honest with ourselves, there is absolutely behavior and treatment, regardless if it’s subconscious, that we should not accept from a romantic partner. I don’t care how enlightened or secure one claims to be, the inescapable truth is the neglectful behavior you accept from an insecurely attached partner is a reflection of our lack of self respect, and even an insecurely attached partner cannot respect us when we don’t respect ourselves. In other words, it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Have to be honest with ourselves.
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KAI
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by KAI on Sept 19, 2023 21:30:33 GMT
Hello,
yes Introvert, this is exactly how i am trying to see things. For an insecure person, it is going to be triggering to be in a relationship. Now i gathered some experience through the years an mostly i did it the hard way, while i was dating unavailable people, i slowly started dealing with that as i realised i was AP, or AP leaning, and the work happened. Now i am definitely feeling more secure, in myself to start with, and confident in accepting the ways of my partners not judging them through my lens or through how I WOULD DO things only, and i feel ready to use my love encounters as more opportunies to grow and confront myself with my triggers.
I think there might be another way than staying alone to work on your traumas, then thinking you are secure (because being alone is not triggering you), then going back in a relationship only to witness all your patiently acquired wisdom to crumble.. This is extremely empowering. As an (secure) anxious leaning person (and being aware of that, and willing to keep growing), being with an avoidant is also definitely a way of challenging your ways, and you don't have to victimize yourself about that. It can make your ways and triggers more obvious, and maybe from there , you can build that emotional muscle that will allow you to self-regulate more easily.
Now to go back to Alexandra's word of cautiousness about me "selling me short", first, i have the feeling that this person might be more ready to show up if i don't expect more than what they can give, or if they don't feel pressured to do so. And anyway, if i was on my own, i would have to address my needs not automatically through them but through various different sources. I kind of accepted that, and right now, it is working for me. I have this strong image of a cat. I am a dog lover, because they have this consistent way of behaving, and they are a bit the anxious p of the animal world but recently, i got to get fonder of cats as well, and maybe that's a good image : the way to go with a cat is not to try and pin them down. They will come in their own time, and they can be super loving when they choose to be so, and then for no reason, they are gone again. If you are not okay with that, then yes, you'd better give up on cats... I apologise for this really poor image, but it is early in the morning, hehe. HAVE A GOOD DAY YOU ALL.
Just wanted to propose another alternative, and to each his/her path i love this forum for how it is presenting so many super intimate and individual ways of dealing with love
With the kind of awareness you have, it would be disrespectful to discount your approach, in my opinion. I did the same thing, I made much more progress while actually in a dysfunctional relationship than while single because.... exactly as you say, I wasn't triggered out of relationship. I was lonely, but didn't have to confront any of the issues surrounding avoidance of intimacy. And continue to grow in the relationship I am in. It's funny you bring up cats and dogs, I have thought of attachment that way as well. I am NOT a dog person, dogs are simply too much for me, and even my cat can be too much! I really notice my boundaries around domestic animals. Even though animals are interested in me, me my nervous system feels overwhelmed unless they are very well trained and reserved. I'm HSP though and that could be why. Anyway, I suspect that this is a segment of your journey and not your destination, as the full human intimate connection requires consistency and reciprocity. Both AP and DA refuse true intimacy when it presents itself due to their own internal blocks. So for now, to observe yourself may yield valuable insights, yes! But keep in mind, AP's go for avoidants because they arent able to tolerate true intimacy either. So a cat-type that once triggered you may not bother you so much now, but they ultimately could privide a dynamic to hide out in and remain on the edge of relating in a healthy way without actually getting there. You will need to explore it for yourself and see if that's the case for you. I graduated to higher levels of relating as I went, I can't fault you! I totally relate to that. And in fact, deep down, i am not really expecting this person to be "the one". I kind of also suspect this is just probably just a segment, and not the destination, just like you said. I think this still has some valuable lessons to teach me, and that's why i am letting it to run its course. I don't really feel i am disrespecting myself in doing so, as it is done in a conscious and super cautious way. I think as you said introvert, i have to experience it for myself. This is very nicely put.
And thanks to the others for your words of advice , i don't feel helpless, though, i feel quite in control actually. More than i ever was. So this is what i'm curious to explore, as i've been feeling sooooo helpless most of the times in my previous relationships. There is definitely something new here...
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Post by mrob on Sept 19, 2023 21:45:25 GMT
I had to do the same. I dated people I knew were dead ends. I tested the patterns we talk about here and was shocked at the entirely predictable responses of both myself and others. I learned lots. As others have said here, don’t get lost in this. Make sure you’re honest with yourself and see things for what they are.
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KAI
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by KAI on Sept 20, 2023 6:38:47 GMT
Yes, this is a concern i have : not getting lost. Which is something i tended to do in every past relationship i had, even though i thought i wasnt, looking back, it was very much there. It is also a training i am doing right now, through this (and other potential relationships i envision). Thanks for reminding me mrob. It is quite tiring, because i kind of know i will have to stay vigilent in this, but i think this is part of the work i have to do right now : keeping in check with myself and with what's going on in that relationship (which is also long distance, so it's adding to the mix). Knowing of their possible patterns (and they are quite textbook FA), and mine is helping a great deal. Coming back to this forum regularly as well. In the meantime, as this is open, i will meet with other people, and maybe with somebody more secure at some point.. Let's see
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2023 14:12:08 GMT
If you go in accepting risk, you may be disappointed in the end but you will be ok. There are some things you can't be sure of, that don't gel for you, until you experience it and work your way through it. This whole process is more than words on a page written by the experts, or someone else's advice. It's got to take the shape of YOU, living it.
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KAI
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by KAI on Sept 20, 2023 20:27:33 GMT
Yes, that's how i feel too, it is so well put ..
THANKS INTROVERT
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