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Post by mysteryuser on Oct 12, 2023 23:53:33 GMT
I'm trying to pay greater attention to my feelings and triggers while dating and observe what gets me triggered or anxious.
I've been meeting a variety of people, and only going out with those that express their want to see me, plan something concrete, and react well to my boundaries (not texting much before meeting / not drinking on the first date), and after the first date I only go out if I don't view any dealbreakers and see at least a few things we are compatible on.
It has been easy to determine flaky/inconsistent people and people that have poor boundaries/communication and disengage. But I'm also realizing sometimes I feel anxiety even when I don't see that/see green flags.
I recently met 2 people - A and C. Both are similar in what they want out of a relationship and out of life, both seem to not shy away from conflict when required. Both planned nice dates, were very respectful, made it clear they wanted to continue getting to know me, and both have VERY similar styles of texting between dates (minimal and only to decide on logistics).
I noticed I feel zero anxiety with A, but also I am not very physically attracted to him (I don't know if that will grow with time). But he and I view the world very similarly, and I always have good, interesting conversations with him. That said, I sometimes get the feeling he is looking to fill a spot that he has a checklist for as opposed to liking me, but I might be overthinking that and picking at straws. During our second date I felt annoyed that I hadn't found a concrete reason to reject him and felt like I was being shallow/abandoning myself by not continuing things with him because I "need to heal" and "don't want to date avoidants". I am reminding myself that I don't need to date someone who is secure just because they're secure either, and I can simply not be attracted to them.
C is a few years older than A, and though extremely similar, seems more "put together". I saw a lot of green flags (he had a backup planned in case the first plan went wrong - and it did, he seemed to have a better idea of who he is as a person, had defined goals and was actively working towards them). Most importantly, before we met, I asked him a question that he felt was personal and he drew a boundary and mentioned he doesn't feel comfortable sharing that without having met someone/knowing them, and acknowledged that he understood if I didn't want to meet him without the answer (a LOT of men often try to gauge what I want and try to fit to that answer instead). I don't know if this was a perceived "rejection" for me that made me want to prove myself, but this evoked some anxiety in me. That said, when we met, he apologized in case he framed the boundary rudely (which I don't believe he did), and answered my question after we built some rapport.
Even though both dates went pretty well and I didn't sense avoidance in particular from either of them (or maybe I missed some hints), I felt anxious about C asking me out again. I noticed the feeling in my body (heart palpitations and hyperventilation) came BEFORE any thought, and I had to remind myself I'd be okay. He did ask me out the next very next day and made concrete plans again.
Now I'm left wondering if even security evokes anxiety based on our perceived value/idealization of them (entirely possible) or if I'm missing something in his behavior that feels avoidant (also entirely possible).
For now I've scheduled another date with C for after about a week, and I'm second-guessing meeting A because I don't feel attracted to him. Although I don't know if that will grow and I keep thinking I "should" give it time, but that feels fair to neither of us. FYI, I am confident I would feel this about A even if I hadn't met C.
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Post by cherrycola on Oct 13, 2023 4:07:45 GMT
One thing to consider is there is no such thing as a 100% secure person. We are all out here just doing our best and even a secure person is going to have their own personal bad habits and quirks.
I don't know how many dates you went on with A, but I am very slow to develop an attraction to more secure leaning people. Like 3-5 dates. But I also get if you aren't feeling it, you aren't feeling it and that is 100% okay, even if they are more secure. We do not owe people our attraction or interest and I think as long as you are a "YES!" to learning more about him, that it isn't a bad thing to continue to explore that connection.
"I saw a lot of green flags (he had a backup planned in case the first plan went wrong" Just to point out how we are all different, while it is great he had a backup plan, I don't see that as a green flag. Even if he hadn't of had one, I think it is very telling how someone deals with things not going to plan. So someone who didn't plan but then rolls with the punches and stays even keeled, is as much of a green flag as having a plan b.
When it comes to C, I feel when we are newer to boundaries, there can be a lot of anxiousness around setting them / having others set them because in the past having boundaries could mean rejection. Is it possible that you are just feeling that?
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Post by anne12 on Oct 13, 2023 11:30:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2023 13:27:11 GMT
It sounds like you are over analyzing and hypervigilant, to me. Like too much is weighing on the small details. You simply cannot know about a person until you experience them over time. Any assumptions you make in early dating are just assumptions. So, plan B for a date is just plan B for a date, don't read too much in to that, don't make it about what you want it to be about.
Have you read Baggage Reclaim about dating being a discovery stage? It's a good sign if someone communicates appropriately and follows through. But all that means is you have an opportunity to discover more, it doesn't mean they are secure or anything else... it just means that there's a chance to learn about them, with no further assumptions than "they know how to date." Know what I mean?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2023 13:36:22 GMT
What I'm saying is maybe the green flags you are seeing are hypervigilance and premature, and your body is telling you to slow down, relax, don't come from a place of needing to find "The One", don't put pressure on yourself and the date. All this is easier said than done. But being aware of the need to pause and let someone unfold (as Natalie Lue writes) can be helpful perhaps.
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Post by mysteryuser on Oct 13, 2023 13:53:00 GMT
One thing to consider is there is no such thing as a 100% secure person. We are all out here just doing our best and even a secure person is going to have their own personal bad habits and quirks. I don't know how many dates you went on with A, but I am very slow to develop an attraction to more secure leaning people. Like 3-5 dates. But I also get if you aren't feeling it, you aren't feeling it and that is 100% okay, even if they are more secure. We do not owe people our attraction or interest and I think as long as you are a "YES!" to learning more about him, that it isn't a bad thing to continue to explore that connection. "I saw a lot of green flags (he had a backup planned in case the first plan went wrong" Just to point out how we are all different, while it is great he had a backup plan, I don't see that as a green flag. Even if he hadn't of had one, I think it is very telling how someone deals with things not going to plan. So someone who didn't plan but then rolls with the punches and stays even keeled, is as much of a green flag as having a plan b. When it comes to C, I feel when we are newer to boundaries, there can be a lot of anxiousness around setting them / having others set them because in the past having boundaries could mean rejection. Is it possible that you are just feeling that? I get what you mean. I have gone on two dates so far and will go on another date with A and see how I feel, and you're right in that I don't think I should be forcing myself to like someone just because they may be secure.
And I know that is not necessarily a green flag, but I guess as someone who has had a lot of experiences with people that don't put in the effort, it made me happy that for once I didn't have to take the lead and figure things out -- and I know that's a small thing but clearly after years of picking the wrong people the bar is low, so to speak lol. Though I get that even if he had rolled with the punch and found a solution for us, that would be good too.
And yes exactly, I haven't experienced instances in the past where someone has clearly and calmly asserted a boundary for relatively smaller things, so I perceived it as rejection. "Oh he actually has opinions and will state them" so to speak, in contrast with a lot of folks that would go along with what I wanted and then resented me after. I also hate the idea of being a placeholder for someone wanting a "girlfriend" which is very common among men my age (early/mid 20s) -- I would prefer to be with someone with more of an idea of what they are looking for and me matching that, as opposed to just being a girl who is interested in them. I've had unpleasant experiences with that.
I'll see how things go, and of course it's too early to tell, but even if things work out with neither of them, I am learning a LOT about myself through this process.
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Post by mysteryuser on Oct 13, 2023 13:59:57 GMT
It sounds like you are over analyzing and hypervigilant, to me. Like too much is weighing on the small details. You simply cannot know about a person until you experience them over time. Any assumptions you make in early dating are just assumptions. So, plan B for a date is just plan B for a date, don't read too much in to that, don't make it about what you want it to be about. Have you read Baggage Reclaim about dating being a discovery stage? It's a good sign if someone communicates appropriately and follows through. But all that means is you have an opportunity to discover more, it doesn't mean they are secure or anything else... it just means that there's a chance to learn about them, with no further assumptions than "they know how to date." Know what I mean? I am being hypervigilant yes and I don't think it's very helpful. I am doing this because being blindsided hurt so much the last time - it wasn't about the rejection or separation, I know I can get past that. But being blindsided was horrible, and I know there's a bit of projection on my end to try to prevent that, but I guess the better way is to remind myself on how I grew from even that and that I'll be ok even if I'm blindsided, and it isn't a reflection of me.
I get what you mean completely, and thanks for pointing that out. I am not really banking on any of these to pan out, but more so using it as a way to observe my own feelings/physical reactions/thoughts in different situations and making sense of them. If they work out, great, if not, I learnt a lot about myself and how people come off! But I agree there is some overanalyzing going on.
I will continue seeing them, and see how I feel. I'm getting better at disengaging with obviously avoidant/uninterested/inconsistent people, but I am to some degree putting pressure on myself to like someone just because they "seem" secure, just because I feel like I "should". The reality is that helps no one. Either the feelings grow or they don't, and it's okay if I have to wait a while for someone who is consistent and reliable and I also feel some attraction towards.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2023 14:05:27 GMT
Great job with maintaining awareness. And, TBH, you don't want feelings to come on early! For me, the more attracted = the more triggered I was. The relationship I'm in now (4 years almost) began with no attraction, a platonic situation actually. I chose to enter a relationship with him based on the courtesy, respect and kindness he showed me...then he became hot pretty quick lol. My heart and mind followed my conscious choice to give this nice guy a chance and it's worked out really good
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Post by mysteryuser on Oct 13, 2023 15:34:28 GMT
Great job with maintaining awareness. And, TBH, you don't want feelings to come on early! For me, the more attracted = the more triggered I was. The relationship I'm in now (4 years almost) began with no attraction, a platonic situation actually. I chose to enter a relationship with him based on the courtesy, respect and kindness he showed me...then he became hot pretty quick lol. My heart and mind followed my conscious choice to give this nice guy a chance and it's worked out really good Yeah I agree - I guess I meant some form of interest! However I'm currently approaching it from the lens of figuring out whether I would even want to be friends with someone, and then thinking about more.
That said, I read so many stories about a conscious choice to give nice guys a chance, and I keep wondering if that's the only way, because sometimes for me that bleeds into the "forcing myself to like someone" territory. I wonder if I need to keep the physical attraction on a back pedal - I can do that consciously - but is it not wrong to assume me being physically attracted would necessarily mean I'm acting out of my anxious attachment?
There hasn't been conversation on exclusivity and I haven't engaged with nor plan on engaging physically yet, so let me just meet them and see how it goes  . I'm very glad I am not needing nor wanting continuous texting to feel close/validated like I used to though, that has made the whole dating process SO much easier. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 13, 2023 18:35:04 GMT
Would you feel more attracted to A if he suddenly got really busy with work and pushed off your next date, to the point you weren't sure whether or not he was still interested? Anxious often feel attraction as longing, and if there is no longing for a person, it may be felt as lack of attraction. Though it also may be a true lack of attraction, as you rightfully said, just because someone is secure doesn't make them a good match for you.
Part of anxious insecure attachment is also that no one else needs to trigger you, you trigger yourself too. That's why someone can be securely attached to a specific person but still have an overall anxious attachment style. So it's not that the secure person is necessarily triggering you, but you may be remembering and projecting past bad experiences and assuming the worst until proven otherwise. You already know you still have fears of things not working out again after you get attached, and no matter how secure the other person is, if you continue to have that fear and you'll still always feel like the other shoe is about to drop, then there's nothing the other person can fully do about that. Because it's not about them or what they're doing (assuming they're not being hot and cold and giving you actual reason showing you they aren't emotionally safe).
I'll also add, you're dating young guys. That's not meant to provide excuses for anyone, but realistically, a lot of people in their early to mid 20s don't have that much life and dating experience yet, don't necessarily know who they are or what they want in life yet, and they're just not going to be perfect at dating or relationships. Yeah, much of society is like, get married by 22!! But a lot of the regular board posters here are older, like me, and dating in my early to mid 20s was always a mess because everyone's still trying to figure out what they want and how to coexist as good partners. Beyond that, it stayed a mess through my early 30s, but that's because I was still insecure and dating other insecures so me and my dates were still emotionally stuck and trying to figure it out!
I also agree with the advice that a couple dates usually doesn't tell you if someone's secure or not. It takes a little time to get to know someone. The point is to do what you're doing so far: walk away when you see red flags and inconsistency, but think of green flags as more like yellow flags until you've regularly interacted with someone over a couple months. Yellow meaning, continue getting to know then and observing, but nothing is a green flag until you've got a collection of them and know it's who they are rather then they're good at early dating. There's no way to do early dating vigilantly and completely avoid risk and pain, though. You just can't control for that. You keep working on yourself instead, for yourself, so that if things don't end up working out with someone you like, you are sad but not devastated and can reclaim yourself in case of a breakup.
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Post by mysteryuser on Oct 13, 2023 20:16:24 GMT
Would you feel more attracted to A if he suddenly got really busy with work and pushed off your next date, to the point you weren't sure whether or not he was still interested? Anxious often feel attraction as longing, and if there is no longing for a person, it may be felt as lack of attraction. Though it also may be a true lack of attraction, as you rightfully said, just because someone is secure doesn't make them a good match for you. Part of anxious insecure attachment is also that no one else needs to trigger you, you trigger yourself too. That's why someone can be securely attached to a specific person but still have an overall anxious attachment style. So it's not that the secure person is necessarily triggering you, but you may be remembering and projecting past bad experiences and assuming the worst until proven otherwise. You already know you still have fears of things not working out again after you get attached, and no matter how secure the other person is, if you continue to have that fear and you'll still always feel like the other shoe is about to drop, then there's nothing the other person can fully do about that. Because it's not about them or what they're doing (assuming they're not being hot and cold and giving you actual reason showing you they aren't emotionally safe). I'll also add, you're dating young guys. That's not meant to provide excuses for anyone, but realistically, a lot of people in their early to mid 20s don't have that much life and dating experience yet, don't necessarily know who they are or what they want in life yet, and they're just not going to be perfect at dating or relationships. Yeah, much of society is like, get married by 22!! But a lot of the regular board posters here are older, like me, and dating in my early to mid 20s was always a mess because everyone's still trying to figure out what they want and how to coexist as good partners. Beyond that, it stayed a mess through my early 30s, but that's because I was still insecure and dating other insecures so me and my dates were still emotionally stuck and trying to figure it out! I also agree with the advice that a couple dates usually doesn't tell you if someone's secure or not. It takes a little time to get to know someone. The point is to do what you're doing so far: walk away when you see red flags and inconsistency, but think of green flags as more like yellow flags until you've regularly interacted with someone over a couple months. Yellow meaning, continue getting to know then and observing, but nothing is a green flag until you've got a collection of them and know it's who they are rather then they're good at early dating. There's no way to do early dating vigilantly and completely avoid risk and pain, though. You just can't control for that. You keep working on yourself instead, for yourself, so that if things don't end up working out with someone you like, you are sad but not devastated and can reclaim yourself in case of a breakup. Great points! About A - I do feel I'm at a point where even if my instincts will want validation, I am able to let go when I sense lack of consistency, so I wouldn't continue such a dynamic. That said, he has a busy job (same field as mine, so I understand) so he is slow with replies and I mostly hear from him once a week regarding logistics, and even when I didn't know if he wanted to see me again I care much. I guess with physical attraction I'm trying to gauge whether I simply don't feel attracted or whether I dislike the thought of them touching me (even a hug). If it's the latter, I don't continue, because I don't feel comfortable. If it's the former, I understand that might grow with time, but also understand that it might not, and I don't want to force a feeling.
I understand and accept the anxiety existing and activating regardless of someone being inconsistent or not, I guess this post was also to make sure I don't jump to conclusions and immediately assume anyone I'm anxious about is completely incompatible for me. And you're right about the early/mid 20s bit as well, and I am not expecting someone to have everything figured out - of course nor do I.
The advice on the yellow flags bit makes a lot of sense. I've been observing my own reactions and it seems like a lot of the self-worth issues come after I let my thoughts spiral. And these thoughts only spiral after a physical reaction that makes me grasp at straws and find whatever means necessary to stop someone from abandoning me. I know the better I get at managing that first physical reaction, the better things get for me overall.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2023 22:26:53 GMT
Of course being physically attracted doesn't mean you're acting out of anxious attachment , but being physically attracted to someone and allowing that to drive an u healthy dynamic does. And forcing anything does too.
The problem with insecurity is it prohibits you from just taking it a day at a time and trusting yourself to make a good decision for yourself. It's not like giving someone a chance means you can't opt out if it doesn't prove to be right for you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2023 22:32:22 GMT
Emotional attraction > sexual attraction, if you don't believe me read the countless tragic stories that start with "The sex was amazing, best I ever had, chemistry fireworks blah blah blah. You're young, you have time to figure it out. To me, trust, respect, intimate partnership is pretty freaking sexy and my man is no troll, he's just not my " toxic type ", not the guy I would see myself with when I was insecure and avoidant.
You will get there!
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Post by mysteryuser on Oct 14, 2023 4:02:53 GMT
Oh yes definitely - I am not interested in engaging physically before a while and don't let that drive my reasoning. I've even recently disengaged with people I found extremely attractive but incompatible/unreliable. I get what you mean I do get hung up on physical 'types' sometimes because it becomes an intrusive thought after a while "oh he's not my type" etc, but I'm trying to minimize those thoughts. |
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. I'm very glad I am not needing nor wanting continuous texting to feel close/validated like I used to though, that has made the whole dating process SO much easier.