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Post by ethanwilliamson on Dec 21, 2023 21:31:05 GMT
I (31M) was dumped in early October by an ex (26F) of 1.5 years that I strongly suspect had a fearful avoidant attachment style. I suspect this for several reasons, some of which I've listed below: - From the beginning expressed doubts in our relationship. A few months she did the first of several mini or fake breakups, where she'd say it's not going to work and we'd have a long emotional talk, and I'd "convince" her to give us another chance, and we'd go back to being normal for a few weeks until the next time.
- About 6 months after we started dating, but before we were an official couple, she ended things and left me for 1 month. I handled the breakup well- I tried to talk her out of it sporadically for a week, but when I realized my efforts were fruitless, I accepted her decision and went full NC until she reached out a month or so later and then we started officially dating soon after.
- Over the course of the next 10 months until October, there were several mini or fake breakups, the longest lasting 1 week.
I felt like I was walking on eggshells for much of the time because she had created and undercurrent of instability due to the numerous breakup
- She has experienced major trauma in the past- she was sexually assaulted about 5 years ago and went to court and testified and the guy who assaulted her ended up getting sentenced to prison for 7-10 years
- Her mother was emotionally abusive to her father and never liked me (b/c of my political beliefs- I was only ever nice/polite to her)- my ex mentioned her mom would just leave the family randomly during her childhood and go off for days and was generally absentee, and that her dad was constantly riding an "emotional rollercoaster", and my ex acknowledged that what she was doing to me was very similar.
Overall we had a good relationship- our chemistry was off the charts and we didn't fight very often. We met each other's families several times and took some trips and it seemed like the more time we spent physically together, the better along we got. The main issue was her repeatedly breaking up with me for things I perceived as trivial matters that most couples could work through. I very much loved her and showed her with my actions that I was willing to change the things that bothered her, but ultimately it still wasn't good enough.
In early October she dumped me again- I think the reason she gave was I was too messy and she couldn't envision us living together in the future. We talked after for a month or so (with me initiating mostly), having phone calls a few times a week. She still said she loved me and after every call I'd ask if she wanted to speak again and she said yes, but she wouldn't take me back or meet in person. It felt to me like we were still dating (she even agreed to that) even though she didn't want to meet in person. I finally said we should go NC since it was clear her feelings weren't coming back, and for both us, the long emotional conversations were becoming draining, and she said OK. 1 week into NC, I broke it because I had started reading about attachment theory and just wanted to ask her some things that had been bothering me. In hindsight this was a mistake to break NC. We talked on the phone and I asked if she wanted to talk again and she said yes. But when I called a few days later, there was no answer or call back. This is when my anxiety was triggered- I texted her a few days later and apologized for something I said on the last call b/c in my mind, that was the reason she was ignoring me. After she received my message, she called me and we talked but for the first time it felt clear to me by her tone/attitude that she actually done. If was a brief chat since she was in a rush and when I asked if she wanted to chat again, she said no for the first time. I said that was fine but since she was rushed, I asked for a final call and she said OK. She called me a few days later but I was in such an anxious state that I didn't answer her. A few days after I didn't answer, she followed that up with a text saying she wanted to make sure I saw that she called and if I didn't want to talk it was OK. I did not respond to that message either. Basically the last time we spoke on the phone, I felt that repulsive, anxious side of me coming out, and I realized after we got off the phone, that I needed to just completely step away from the situation and focus on self soothing and not interacting with her, as I had completely lost my sense of emotional centeredness. That last text by her was 6 weeks ago, and I haven't heard anything from her since. I haven't tried to reach out to her at all since and I've completely avoided checking her social media or driving by her house since then either. I've used the time in no contact to focus on myself and ways I can become better and more resilient. I've gone to the gym 7 days a week since and have started working with a therapist for the first time in a few years. Overall I feel much better than I did 6 weeks ago. Even though personally I'm feeling better in a lot of ways, I still feel so guilty for ignoring her last message. I feel like it was petty and rude since I was the one who asked her to call. It wasn't done from a place of manipulation- I was just super anxious and didn't want to unload those feelings on to her- but I still feed bad about it. I'm left wondering if I should reach out to her an apologize, or if I should just leave it alone. I would love to have another chance with her, as I felt like we left so much on the table, but I recognize we both have work we would need to do if we would ever have a future together. Do you guys think I should apologize for ignoring her? I've read that FAs will shut down and never reach out again, so I'm concerned that if she even felt differently then she did when she dumped me, I wouldn't know about it since I ignored her and possibly burned the bridge. Do I just continue my NC indefinitely and keep the focus on myself and my own healing journey from our tumultuous, albeit loving, relationship? I've been feeling better and better each week due to the commitment to NC and the work I've been doing, but I still do miss her and I wish I had just responded to her last message so I wouldn't feel the guilt I have right now and I could do NC in peace. No contact worked to reunite us before so I guess I'm still holding out hope for that, even though I know I probably shouldn't take her back even if she wants to try. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2023 15:30:41 GMT
My opinion, and my own experience says....
This is mind fuckery. And it's ok, it will eventually get you somewhere, and you will either enjoy it or regret it.
FAFO. Try it and see, if you think that contacting her with a remnant of hope will somehow benefit you, just do it and get it out of the way. You will live, and either it will galvanize you further in your focus on becoming healthier without her, or you will end up in reconciliation that may or may not be a continued shitshow, but likely will be, given the reality that you two are not in contact after several breakups.
I'm serious though. If a thing has you looping just do something and it will jolt you into a direction. This looping is a way of staying stuck.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 22, 2023 15:42:54 GMT
Overall we had a good relationship- our chemistry was off the charts and we didn't fight very often. We met each other's families several times and took some trips and it seemed like the more time we spent physically together, the better along we got. The main issue was her repeatedly breaking up with me for things I perceived as trivial matters that most couples could work through. Instead of wondering about if you should set back your progress by reopening contact, I'd bring this part of your narrative to your next therapy appointment to discuss. The way you define a good relationship is unfortunately skewed because you've actually described something quite dysfunctional. If you don't fight but instead break up at every little disagreement, followed by you needing to convince her that your relationship is worth the effort until she possibly decides to come back while you're walking on eggshells, that is not a healthy or good partnership in any way. Good relationships are defined by having a strong foundation of stability, trust, boundaries, respect, and communication (not fighting usually means at least one person is simply not communicating needs and opinions). Staying in a relationship like this and painting the narrative as it being good instead of it being dysfunctional is a symptom of something buried back in the past. It's either something that's a defense mechanism (needing to learn to stay attached to early caregivers who were unstable and couldn't meet your needs because you needed to for literal survival during childhood, so you always forgave the unforgivable) or something that was normalized for you by bad early relationship modeling to such an extent that you don't recognize that none of the important foundational pieces of an enduring relationship not built on some level of fantasy bonding are there. I'm not saying this to be harsh, it is a very common issue that comes with anxious attachment and usually leads to codependency and getting stuck in the loop you're currently in. It's something worth thinking about and discussing working through with the therapist, though it's up to you to decide whether you're trying to really get through this, emotionally process, and heal aspects of your life, or whether you'd rather stay stuck not processing and instead clinging to false hope (not false because she doesn't care about you, but because you have no control of whether or not she works out her very serious issues and can be in a healthy relationship -- based on what you said, she currently cannot show up as a healthy partner but you're at least giving yourself an opportunity to heal through therapy). |
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Post by ethanwilliamson on Dec 22, 2023 21:42:17 GMT
This is mind fuckery. And it's ok, it will eventually get you somewhere, and you will either enjoy it or regret it. I'm curious what you mean by this line. What do you mean it will eventually get me somewhere? Even though I'm feeling much better since the breakup, I think the biggest reason for that is because I've completely cut this person out of my life. It's not about her necessarily, as I loved having her in my life, it's that by cutting her out and never checking her social media or seeing what she's been up to from afar, I've been able to almost trick my mind into believe she doesn't exist any more. Furthermore, I'm still fostering this false hope that she misses me and wants to rekindle and will eventually reach out, whereas if I do reach out, and she doesn't reply, replies coldly, or replies apathetically, it will kill that hope and send me into a brief spiral of negativity. Also - doesn't it set a bad precedent that if she breaks up with me, I'm going to be the one who has to initiate the conversations to reconcile? Shouldn't that be on her, since she was the one to end things? It's not like I was abusive to her or did something that directly warranted the breakup- sure I wasn't perfect, but overall I was good to her, and I was always the one to fight for us when she would do these fake breakups. I never wavered once on fighting for her until the very last message when my anxiety was through the roof and I just shut down. You're certainly right about it being a mindfuck. Thank you for the reply. |
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Post by ethanwilliamson on Dec 22, 2023 21:51:04 GMT
Overall we had a good relationship- our chemistry was off the charts and we didn't fight very often. We met each other's families several times and took some trips and it seemed like the more time we spent physically together, the better along we got. The main issue was her repeatedly breaking up with me for things I perceived as trivial matters that most couples could work through. Instead of wondering about if you should set back your progress by reopening contact, I'd bring this part of your narrative to your next therapy appointment to discuss. The way you define a good relationship is unfortunately skewed because you've actually described something quite dysfunctional. If you don't fight but instead break up at every little disagreement, followed by you needing to convince her that your relationship is worth the effort until she possibly decides to come back while you're walking on eggshells, that is not a healthy or good partnership in any way. Good relationships are defined by having a strong foundation of stability, trust, boundaries, respect, and communication (not fighting usually means at least one person is simply not communicating needs and opinions). Staying in a relationship like this and painting the narrative as it being good instead of it being dysfunctional is a symptom of something buried back in the past. It's either something that's a defense mechanism (needing to learn to stay attached to early caregivers who were unstable and couldn't meet your needs because you needed to for literal survival during childhood, so you always forgave the unforgivable) or something that was normalized for you by bad early relationship modeling to such an extent that you don't recognize that none of the important foundational pieces of an enduring relationship not built on some level of fantasy bonding are there. I'm not saying this to be harsh, it is a very common issue that comes with anxious attachment and usually leads to codependency and getting stuck in the loop you're currently in. It's something worth thinking about and discussing working through with the therapist, though it's up to you to decide whether you're trying to really get through this, emotionally process, and heal aspects of your life, or whether you'd rather stay stuck not processing and instead clinging to false hope (not false because she doesn't care about you, but because you have no control of whether or not she works out her very serious issues and can be in a healthy relationship -- based on what you said, she currently cannot show up as a healthy partner but you're at least giving yourself an opportunity to heal through therapy). Thank you so much for the thoughtful reply Alexandra. I have a therapy appointment scheduled for next week, so I'm going to review all of this with my therapist and I'll place emphasis on the part that you mentioned. The truth of the situation is that I would likely never have had the strength to break up with her, so her ending things and me not leaving the door completely wide open, perhaps is a blessing. But when you're codependent and feeling miserable after a breakup, and the only thing you long for in the world is reconnection from the person who broke you heart, it's very difficult to see the big picture. I told myself when we stopped speaking that my focus needed to be on breaking the trauma bond, and while I'm doing better, I still very much feel the desire to "take another hit". I feel absolutely certain that, unless she comes out straight away and says I miss you and want you back, me reopening the lines of communication will set me back. And such a response seems unlikely. And so, I will stay the course of no contact, even though it's particularly difficult during this time of year. I hope that she is being introspective but knowing her, I highly doubt it. She very much had the usual avoidant attitude that nothing was wrong with her and we just weren't a good fit (which is probably true, but ironically not for the reasons that she said, instead because her attachment style was an impediment to long term stability.) |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2023 23:26:38 GMT
This is mind fuckery. And it's ok, it will eventually get you somewhere, and you will either enjoy it or regret it. I'm curious what you mean by this line. What do you mean it will eventually get me somewhere? Even though I'm feeling much better since the breakup, I think the biggest reason for that is because I've completely cut this person out of my life. It's not about her necessarily, as I loved having her in my life, it's that by cutting her out and never checking her social media or seeing what she's been up to from afar, I've been able to almost trick my mind into believe she doesn't exist any more. Furthermore, I'm still fostering this false hope that she misses me and wants to rekindle and will eventually reach out, whereas if I do reach out, and she doesn't reply, replies coldly, or replies apathetically, it will kill that hope and send me into a brief spiral of negativity. Also - doesn't it set a bad precedent that if she breaks up with me, I'm going to be the one who has to initiate the conversations to reconcile? Shouldn't that be on her, since she was the one to end things? It's not like I was abusive to her or did something that directly warranted the breakup- sure I wasn't perfect, but overall I was good to her, and I was always the one to fight for us when she would do these fake breakups. I never wavered once on fighting for her until the very last message when my anxiety was through the roof and I just shut down. You're certainly right about it being a mindfuck. Thank you for the reply. Exactly right, it would set a bad precedent to initiate conversations to reconcile. You got it. And yep, if you try, it will get you somewhere. Either hurt you and kill the hope or.... some other unlikely scenario. I think you have the answers and you're just entertaining confusion and wishful thinking. You already know, don't you? |
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Post by mrob on Dec 23, 2023 1:16:57 GMT
It’s the old AP/FA merry go round. Too close and too far away. It can go on forever, but my experience is that the breakups get closer and closer together until it’s just too painful.
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Post by ethanwilliamson on Dec 23, 2023 2:53:55 GMT
It’s the old AP/FA merry go round. Too close and too far away. It can go on forever, but my experience is that the breakups get closer and closer together until it’s just too painful. I think I am FA too, just leaning more anxious. I didn't know about AT until this relationship ended, and I'm starting to work with a therapist on becoming secure, as I want to have a healthy, long term relationship with a partner that I love. Regarding this relationship, it's funny b/c the first 6 months we dated, we weren't official (it was just a situationship) and I was the one who was more aloof to our future (I did the hot/cold fake breakup thing, I just never asked her to be my girlfriend), and she was still doing the fake break ups back then every month or two. She would say I don't think we should keep talking etc. And after 6 months of that, she pulled away stronger and I told her I wanted to be with only her, and she left me and we went no contact for 1 month. So when she finally got what she wanted, she left. When she came back after the month of NC, we became official, and she continued to pull the hot/cold stuff. So even when I was the more avoidant one in the relationship, she was still acting the same way. I don't really understand. I've read that FAs will swing anxious when they meet someone more avoidant, but in my case, it seems like she behaved fairly similarly when she was the less avoidant one vs the more avoidant one. |
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Post by ethanwilliamson on Dec 23, 2023 3:00:58 GMT
I'm curious what you mean by this line. What do you mean it will eventually get me somewhere? Even though I'm feeling much better since the breakup, I think the biggest reason for that is because I've completely cut this person out of my life. It's not about her necessarily, as I loved having her in my life, it's that by cutting her out and never checking her social media or seeing what she's been up to from afar, I've been able to almost trick my mind into believe she doesn't exist any more. Furthermore, I'm still fostering this false hope that she misses me and wants to rekindle and will eventually reach out, whereas if I do reach out, and she doesn't reply, replies coldly, or replies apathetically, it will kill that hope and send me into a brief spiral of negativity. Also - doesn't it set a bad precedent that if she breaks up with me, I'm going to be the one who has to initiate the conversations to reconcile? Shouldn't that be on her, since she was the one to end things? It's not like I was abusive to her or did something that directly warranted the breakup- sure I wasn't perfect, but overall I was good to her, and I was always the one to fight for us when she would do these fake breakups. I never wavered once on fighting for her until the very last message when my anxiety was through the roof and I just shut down. You're certainly right about it being a mindfuck. Thank you for the reply. Exactly right, it would set a bad precedent to initiate conversations to reconcile. You got it. And yep, if you try, it will get you somewhere. Either hurt you and kill the hope or.... some other unlikely scenario. I think you have the answers and you're just entertaining confusion and wishful thinking. You already know, don't you? Deep down I know that I need to remain in NC indefinitely and keep breaking the trauma bond. If I hadn't ignored her, I would have no problem with that. The guilt of ignoring her is what has left me questioning it. It makes me feel like I quit even though she was the one who always ended things and I was the one who fought for us, and when I ignored her the breakup was still fresh and she even said it was fine if I didn't want to talk in her last message to me. The YouTube videos where they say FAs won't chase after being rejected one time haven't helped me either, but you're right that I feel deep down that I'm doing the right thing, even though it's left me feeling like shit. I just wanted her to stop breaking up with us and we could have had a healthy relationship. I'm in a good place in my life and I'm ready for a serious partner- I'm over playing bullshit games- but I guess she just was the wrong girl. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2023 3:31:37 GMT
Exactly right, it would set a bad precedent to initiate conversations to reconcile. You got it. And yep, if you try, it will get you somewhere. Either hurt you and kill the hope or.... some other unlikely scenario. I think you have the answers and you're just entertaining confusion and wishful thinking. You already know, don't you? Deep down I know that I need to remain in NC indefinitely and keep breaking the trauma bond. If I hadn't ignored her, I would have no problem with that. The guilt of ignoring her is what has left me questioning it. It makes me feel like I quit even though she was the one who always ended things and I was the one who fought for us, and when I ignored her the breakup was still fresh and she even said it was fine if I didn't want to talk in her last message to me. The YouTube videos where they say FAs won't chase after being rejected one time haven't helped me either, but you're right that I feel deep down that I'm doing the right thing, even though it's left me feeling like shit. I just wanted her to stop breaking up with us and we could have had a healthy relationship. I'm in a good place in my life and I'm ready for a serious partner- I'm over playing bullshit games- but I guess she just was the wrong girl. I just want to say, it sounds like you have really done a lot of good work, so please don't get discouraged, don't give up. Just work through these feelings, same as you've worked through everything to get as far as you have. It's another layer, another level. The pain that you're feeling will resolve as you gain more insights, and continue to care for yourself. Your future partner is out there, and she won't break up with you over and over again. You'll be able to work through things together. You'll be glad you made room for her to come into your life. |
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Post by alexandra on Dec 23, 2023 5:49:00 GMT
I re-read your first post. You don't have anything to feel guilty about, actually. You asked if she wanted to talk again soon, and she said no. You talked her into it, and she followed through, wanting you to know she did follow through and if you weren't up to talking that was okay. And you weren't up to talking, which she didn't want to do in the first place, and it was okay. She knows the entire situation was too heavy because you'd both already talked about that (the conversations and more closeness was hard if things weren't going anywhere), so I would assume she knew why you didn't answer (you'd already told her plus she knows you by now, I'd hope) and it was what it was. I wouldn't really define it as ignoring her exactly, it was just the relationship in that broken form finally ended.
You should also give people some credit. She was absolutely aware that behavior was going to push you away, because she'd witnessed it fully play out before (watching her parents be unhappy). She knows her role to at least some extent and that your skipping a phone call didn't happen in a vacuum. Truth be told, it's better she sees some consequences for her actions anyway, because people respect others if they have boundaries and a backbone far more than if they don't. If you ever cross paths again, sure, you can apologize for not handling the situation a little better, but I don't think this is one you need to go out of your way for because the entire thing broke apart on both sides.
It sounds like you intellectually agree that keeping no contact for now is better for you, and it's okay to wait it out for a while and give your emotions a chance to catch up with that intellectual side. It's also okay to decide to put your guilt away until a time you are in a better mindset to deal with it, and you can decide how you feel about it and what to do about it later. I know this stuff always feels binary, and like you need to act now and it can't wait or you might lose out on something / somehow not survive (I was AP for a long time too), but that's an illusion. You've got time to figure out what to do... in fact, giving it more time would be to your benefit because it gives you both space to do some work to change, if it's going to happen. And the only way these conversations end up really mattering is if the dynamic between the two people truly has changed because they've both changed in the interim. Otherwise, talking again just ends up eventually being rinse and repeat.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 23, 2023 5:55:51 GMT
Another addition to say, when I say consequences to her actions, I mean maybe losing a connection will push her into getting some more help. Just letting her treat you however doesn't result in any need on her end to want anything to be different. Being an SA victim is horrible even without all that other stuff with her family, and I hope she gets whatever help she needs to best come to terms with it and fully reclaim her life.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2023 16:49:55 GMT
The guilt, maybe you grew up feeling responsible for managing other people's feelings. If someone doesn't have the capacity to identify and express their thoughts and feelings, it can be tempting to try to help them along with that but it's their homework to do. You can't partner with someone that can't manage their own emotional responsibilities, it only delivers pain, instability, and confusion.
In the end you need to go by what you know is true for you when you're in a situation that has you guessing about what someone else isn't saying or doing. That's how you really extricate yourself... let then be responsible for themselves. If they aren't around, you know everything you need to know about them. Time to make decisions without them.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 24, 2023 0:22:03 GMT
It’s the old AP/FA merry go round. Too close and too far away. It can go on forever, but my experience is that the breakups get closer and closer together until it’s just too painful. I think I am FA too, just leaning more anxious. I didn't know about AT until this relationship ended, and I'm starting to work with a therapist on becoming secure, as I want to have a healthy, long term relationship with a partner that I love. Regarding this relationship, it's funny b/c the first 6 months we dated, we weren't official (it was just a situationship) and I was the one who was more aloof to our future (I did the hot/cold fake breakup thing, I just never asked her to be my girlfriend), and she was still doing the fake break ups back then every month or two. She would say I don't think we should keep talking etc. And after 6 months of that, she pulled away stronger and I told her I wanted to be with only her, and she left me and we went no contact for 1 month. So when she finally got what she wanted, she left. When she came back after the month of NC, we became official, and she continued to pull the hot/cold stuff. So even when I was the more avoidant one in the relationship, she was still acting the same way. I don't really understand. I've read that FAs will swing anxious when they meet someone more avoidant, but in my case, it seems like she behaved fairly similarly when she was the less avoidant one vs the more avoidant one. FAs can either lean more anxious or more avoidant depending on their preference in a partner. You obviously have a preference for someone who leans avoidant. I have FAvattachment wounding and have leaned anxious as my preference has been towards more avoidant men. This mirrors the relationships I had with both my mom and dad who were more avoidant leaning with me. My recommendation is going to be to look into somatic experiencing therapy which allows you to explore what trauma is stored within your body….but…and this is key for anxious leaning individuals….become familiar with where you end and another person begins. This helps with the enmeshment you are experiencing. You are not responsible for her and she is not responsible for you. |
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Post by anne12 on Dec 24, 2023 5:45:39 GMT
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