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Post by seeking on Mar 25, 2024 0:50:51 GMT
I'm going through some deep questions right now in my healing process.... I feel like I maybe used to know this but don't know it or am in some kind of blind-spot?
I know a lot of recovery work is about learning to love ourselves, and be okay alone, and all of that, but honestly from a historical perspective, psycho-biological perspective, and even nervous system (say, polyvagal), we are not designed to be alone. We know from all kinds of studies what happens without touch, to people in isolation, etc.
Where does the average (healthy, say secure) adult get/receive/feel love from?
I'm imagining its divided among things like peers, friends, colleagues, family, partner, children, etc.
Personally, I've been feeling this "part" let's call it of me that is lacking a feeling of love - no husband, no prospects (single 7 years now), my sister does not "love" me, my father loves me but it's not the kind where he shows it, my mom shows it (and I fear losing her). I stopped getting massages years ago. I see 2 practitioners - one is functional, one is a therapist, and one is 1x a month if that, the other 2x a month. And 1 is someone who I think doesn't get me in a way? I recently lost a dear friend (I believe to suicide). And my other closer friends are going through horrible stuff and I'm supporting them. I give -- I'm the sole parent of a kid with extra needs who is home with me. I work (also sole provider) and I have a helping/giving vocation/job.
I personally know that I'm not "getting" enough love. I'm falling into a bit of a depression - mostly from fatigue more than anything and zero time to myself. (I'm not looking for ways to "fix" that here in this post).
I just keep thinking - if it were someone else, someone perhaps healthier than me, with less trauma, what might be different in this scenario?
Thanks,
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Post by alexandra on Mar 25, 2024 1:58:41 GMT
Maybe it would help to think of "being alone" a bit differently. I think being okay being alone isn't quite so literal. It doesn't mean you want to be alone, it means you're at peace with who you are and what you cannot control. Which then allows you to be resilient enough to keep trying to connect with new people in a way that works for you. If a relationship / friendship isn't making you happy and has bad boundaries, you can let it go because there's no scarcity mentality around connection. It's not always easy to navigate and doesn't always feel good. It isn't that you're always happiest alone or anything. But there will be other people out in the world you will connect with if you try, even if it takes time to find and you need to filter through some bad ones. You can remain optimistic enough about that to feel okay and comfortable during the times you're doing your own thing.
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Post by seeking on Mar 25, 2024 2:18:30 GMT
Thanks, Alexandra. That makes sense.
Also wondering for the average middle-aged person where they are getting a feeling of being loved from? Is it normal to want to feel loved as an adult? This is confusing to me because of so much of the messaging around recovery/codependency etc. Almost to the point where it comes across as if we're supposed to be fine as our own island. Which I know isn't true ... but like people here have said- if you are recovering from alcoholism, you can go without alcohol, but I don't think people are meant to go without love. And I'm not using that as a justification for love addiction. I'm just wondering what a healthy way of feeling loved is when all the old strategies are gone (thankfully).
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 25, 2024 2:19:45 GMT
I'm going through some deep questions right now in my healing process.... I feel like I maybe used to know this but don't know it or am in some kind of blind-spot? I know a lot of recovery work is about learning to love ourselves, and be okay alone, and all of that, but honestly from a historical perspective, psycho-biological perspective, and even nervous system (say, polyvagal), we are not designed to be alone. We know from all kinds of studies what happens without touch, to people in isolation, etc. Where does the average (healthy, say secure) adult get/receive/feel love from? I'm imagining its divided among things like peers, friends, colleagues, family, partner, children, etc. Personally, I've been feeling this "part" let's call it of me that is lacking a feeling of love - no husband, no prospects (single 7 years now), my sister does not "love" me, my father loves me but it's not the kind where he shows it, my mom shows it (and I fear losing her). I stopped getting massages years ago. I see 2 practitioners - one is functional, one is a therapist, and one is 1x a month if that, the other 2x a month. And 1 is someone who I think doesn't get me in a way? I recently lost a dear friend (I believe to suicide). And my other closer friends are going through horrible stuff and I'm supporting them. I give -- I'm the sole parent of a kid with extra needs who is home with me. I work (also sole provider) and I have a helping/giving vocation/job. I personally know that I'm not "getting" enough love. I'm falling into a bit of a depression - mostly from fatigue more than anything and zero time to myself. (I'm not looking for ways to "fix" that here in this post). I just keep thinking - if it were someone else, someone perhaps healthier than me, with less trauma, what might be different in this scenario? Thanks, Self love to me isn’t about “loving” being alone, but when alone….being ok and at peace with it (as Alexandra said). I view self love through a lens of being curious instead of condemning, forgiving and flexible versus shaming and stiff. It is unlearning everything I thought would keep me safe as a child and learning to embrace life’s disappointments and messiness as learning and growth opportunities. I think self love is ever evolving….but I think it comes down to self love plus therapy for me. Taking therapy out of the equation would leave me open to unchallenged tapes from my past. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 25, 2024 2:25:02 GMT
Thanks, Alexandra. That makes sense. Also wondering for the average middle-aged person where they are getting a feeling of being loved from? Is it normal to want to feel loved as an adult? This is confusing to me because of so much of the messaging around recovery/codependency etc. Almost to the point where it comes across as if we're supposed to be fine as our own island. Which I know isn't true ... but like people here have said- if you are recovering from alcoholism, you can go without alcohol, but I don't think people are meant to go without love. And I'm not using that as a justification for love addiction. I'm just wondering what a healthy way of feeling loved is when all the old strategies are gone (thankfully). I think desiring love from others is a very real human need. In fact, many diseases are tied to being isolated because we are social beings. I think however, when our desire for love from other becomes fixated on one person, when we value another person over ourselves…that is when we allow an insecure attachment to form. I am single….but I have hobbies, I have my church community, I have my family, I have my friends and I have my cat. All are amazing supplies of companionship and love. I am not actively seeking a partner but I am open to one. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 25, 2024 2:35:10 GMT
There is a book I read when I was much earlier in my therapy called “ leaving the enchanted forest”…..one thing it emphasized was having a broad base of ways to get “love” so in the event that a relationship did not work out, there would still be other avenues to get a sense of love and belonging.
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Post by seeking on Mar 25, 2024 2:37:36 GMT
I think desiring love from others is a very real human need. In fact, many diseases are tied to being isolated because we are social beings. I think however, when our desire for love from other becomes fixated on one person, when we value another person over ourselves…that is when we allow an insecure attachment to form. I am single….but I have hobbies, I have my church community, I have my family, I have my friends and I have my cat. All are amazing supplies of companionship and love. I am not actively seeking a partner but I am open to one. This helps. I haven't been actively seeking a partner either. But the love factor and isolation/loneliness have become a bit of a thing. And also the giving -- energy outgoing but not incoming. So I pay people - therapist, etc, will prob start getting massage or body work. I hadn't considered my dog. He's kind of crazy though - not so much a loving presence. I have family two, but like I said in my initial post, I wouldn't say I feel love from them, with the exception of my mom and I won't always have her here. I think with the recent events around my friends, it's just becoming more clear that I'm missing feeling loved. I joined a church but it's not like they're surrounding us with love. We go. I mostly go for my daughter. I have a relationship with Christ (and that's where I actually feel the most incoming love, but that is more personal than through my church). I don't see myself having new family members. And I do have good friends, so at my age and in my situation, I'm just trying to imagine where I would get this love? |
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Post by seeking on Mar 25, 2024 2:39:30 GMT
There is a book I read when I was much earlier in my therapy called “ leaving the enchanted forest”…..one thing it emphasized was having a broad base of ways to get “love” so in the event that a relationship did not work out, there would still be other avenues to get a sense of love and belonging. Just ordered it. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 25, 2024 3:11:11 GMT
I think desiring love from others is a very real human need. In fact, many diseases are tied to being isolated because we are social beings. I think however, when our desire for love from other becomes fixated on one person, when we value another person over ourselves…that is when we allow an insecure attachment to form. I am single….but I have hobbies, I have my church community, I have my family, I have my friends and I have my cat. All are amazing supplies of companionship and love. I am not actively seeking a partner but I am open to one. This helps. I haven't been actively seeking a partner either. But the love factor and isolation/loneliness have become a bit of a thing. And also the giving -- energy outgoing but not incoming. So I pay people - therapist, etc, will prob start getting massage or body work. I hadn't considered my dog. He's kind of crazy though - not so much a loving presence. I have family two, but like I said in my initial post, I wouldn't say I feel love from them, with the exception of my mom and I won't always have her here. I think with the recent events around my friends, it's just becoming more clear that I'm missing feeling loved. I joined a church but it's not like they're surrounding us with love. We go. I mostly go for my daughter. I have a relationship with Christ (and that's where I actually feel the most incoming love, but that is more personal than through my church). I don't see myself having new family members. And I do have good friends, so at my age and in my situation, I'm just trying to imagine where I would get this love? I am really fortunate that my church has a singles community which I have attended since 2011. Several of my friends have come from that community and I have a much smaller group within that group who all went on a cruise together a few years back and we keep in touch. My hobby has also yielded great friendships and I started a Facebook community group just for women why enjoy this hobby. I would agree that if you are putting 90% into a relationship and consistently getting 10% back….that isn’t a good relationship. I do have some that are a bit lopsided….but these are friends who stood by me during the whole B drama….so I am willing to put more into listening to their current dramas. I also recognize there is a natural ebb and flow…..some days I need to give more to my friends, some days they give more to me….i generally try to take an overarching view of “our we nurturing each other”…”is this a transformational relationship? Do I feel safe with this friend? Do I trust this friend has my best interest at heart? Do I trust this friend to give me grace when I mess up?” These tend to be more important to me over ensuring that we are each giving equally because of my unique needs. It has taken 6 years…but my cat is finally trusting me enough to curl up on my lap and he will even fall asleep. That is how he shows love….by trusting me…and it is hard to have a bad mood when there is a purring cat on my lap. Perhaps instead of approaching it as love….maybe list the aspects or traits you associate with love and see if there are people who meet 1 or more of those traits. Love can mean so many different things and I would not to presume to know what it is to you. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2024 13:59:09 GMT
Are you asking for love? I know your friends are going through a lot but that need not squeeze you out, even in hard times most of us have love to give those we are closest to. I see a strong martyr theme in your posts and if its accurate it will dampen your ability to ask and receive. We have to reach out to find belonging and that sense of love and connection that humans inherently need. It's not just something that flows necessarily we need to engage it with our vulnerability.
If you are surrounded by relationships that can't reciprocate then reach out to strangers like calling a faith based prayer line or something would be my suggestion, if you are open to suggestions. Humans are capable of sharing this human compassion without a personal relationship and it can still be very healing. In times of isolation I have gained a real sense of safety and belonging in the human race with Swedish Massage (with a skillful and in tune provider).
But I have found, coming out of isolation meant reaching out and daring to be seen. Nobody came to see me as much as I put myself in front of them to be seen. It was a life changing process to learn to reach out like that. To just put myself in a position to receive.
Not venting, complaining, telling a story ... just a simple "I need comfort and to feel loved and less alone" in so many words, whatever words get straight to the heart of the matter without a narrative around it. Simple honesty stripped of everything else. Here I am, love me please, thank you. Someone will be able to meet you there, at least I found that humans around me were able to call upon their own compassion to help me. That's the thing about these human needs... (compassionate) humans also need to pull those who suffer into safety.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2024 14:08:12 GMT
An example of give and take even in difficult times... this is real:
My young adult son is single parenting his toddler due to the instability/absence of the mother. He is often overwhelmed, he is grieving the breakdown of the family he thought he could have.
His best friend who also has a young child is going through a divorce, and they call each other daily to support and tell each other they love each other, and encourage each other.
Yesterday my son's father commited suicide, tragic end to addiction. And he was on the phone giving and receiving love with his friend, both are now in such unimaginable pain. The level of pain in each life is not a determining factor when it comes to a balance of giving and receiving. It has been this way always.
It is like this in my family as well, with my young adult kids. When one suffers we all close in for them, but if another of us then suffers more we shift and close in around the one who has need. It is a dynamic flowing of compassion not a one way street, ever. No one becomes ineligible because their pain is less.
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Post by lovebunny on Mar 25, 2024 15:46:22 GMT
As a middle-aged woman w/out close family ties, I identify, seeking. When single, I find it very difficult to get enough "love." I agree with @trn9, it might help to break that down, when you say you're lacking "love," what exactly do you mean? 1. physical touch, a)affectionate, b) sexual) 2. support, a)emotional, b)physical (help with bills, tasks, picks you up at airport, etc.) 3. companionship a)going out, b)quiet time together/on-on-one, daily lives shared Then you can start to look for some solutions? If you're someone with disposable income, you can pay someone to give you some touch (massage therapist, manicurists, sex workers) or for many kinds of physical support (therapist, housekeeper, Lyft.) For going-out companionship, you've got your church, singles groups, softball teams, etc.. Any scene where you're a known regular. One of my most fulfilling r'ships I have is with my local karaoke bar, frequented by an overlap of lgbtq & theater community. There, I'll get affectionate physical touch (huggy people) & companionship & sometimes even a little sexy touch if there's someone worth flirting with. An overall sense of belonging (usually.) For physical touch/sexual, I can try to express my sexuality through..ahem..literal self-love, or write sexy stories online. (That one's hardest for me. I sort of shut down and feel less feminine and dimmed-light when I don't have a sexual partner & I'm not gonna pay someone.) Another tough one for me is quiet companionship, like where you have dinner at home together or watch a movie on the couch together. I have a couple of friends I feel close enough to do that with, but they're often busy so it's not frequent. When I'm single, there's no one I talk to nearly everyday. I can mitigate it by videochat with an old friend who lives elsewhere, or turn on the tv to a familiar old sitcom & hear voices that feels like family. Pets are good for this, another living creature in the home to talk to. I do not think it's unhealthy or codependent to want a partner. I feel some shame around the fact that I very openly want that, & spend time & energy actively looking. But I think a good strategy for me has been to look for, indulge in, & have gratitude for ALL kinds of support & connection that's out there, not just romantic. And focusing more on friends, partners & pets who are actually good at fulfilling some of those needs instead of wasting energy chasing emotionally unavailable types (ok, exception made for cats, lol.) |
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Post by cherrycola on Mar 25, 2024 17:39:35 GMT
I would say self love is not enough, nor is it supposed to be. But you do not need romantic love to feel loved. I feel more love pouring from my friends then I ever felt from a man. I'm not saying this is easy, you have to do the work and show up yourself. You need to be vulnerable and show them the cracks in your armor and sometimes it means doing the painful work of letting go of friendships that don't serve you. It has also meant a lot of putting myself out there and showing up enthusiastically to new connections, even though some of them fizzled out. I think that is the scariest part for me, is going out on a limb saying I like you, want to .. hang out? then carrying through and texting, making plans, just generally putting myself out there for rejection. If you consistently show people you want to be their friend the right people will gravitate towards that.
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Post by iz42 on Mar 25, 2024 17:52:47 GMT
Thanks, Alexandra. That makes sense. Also wondering for the average middle-aged person where they are getting a feeling of being loved from? Is it normal to want to feel loved as an adult? This is confusing to me because of so much of the messaging around recovery/codependency etc. Almost to the point where it comes across as if we're supposed to be fine as our own island. Which I know isn't true ... but like people here have said- if you are recovering from alcoholism, you can go without alcohol, but I don't think people are meant to go without love. And I'm not using that as a justification for love addiction. I'm just wondering what a healthy way of feeling loved is when all the old strategies are gone (thankfully). I wonder if there is a difference between "love" and "connection." We can generate self-love but we can't really find connection without others to connect with. I think as humans we all need connection and maybe that is what you're saying you are lacking? I personally feel like connection can come in lots of different forms, even just in small daily interactions with strangers. But it's different for everyone. I am okay without a big friend group as long as I have one or two friends that I'm close to and can connect with (even if they live far away) - some people need more than this. I do think that without having some form of connection with other humans, most people would struggle. Being at peace with being alone or single to me does NOT mean being okay with being totally isolated or without connection. I don't think that would be healthy. |
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Post by kirrok on Mar 25, 2024 18:08:43 GMT
I just keep thinking - if it were someone else, someone perhaps healthier than me, with less trauma, what might be different in this scenario? I'd like to offer a point of view because I think it's important to counter the messages we're sent by dominant culture – something you allude to. The sentiment about someone "healthier" with "less trauma" perhaps carries with it some shame? And I believe this shame was given to you by messages in dominant culture. I believe that it is never, ever shameful to want love and for the quality of your connections – to self, to others – to be satisfying. Your needs are your needs, and they're like food, breath, and water. Someone who has been starved of these in life will be ravenous just as they would be for food sustenance. I also believe that attachment wounds are relational wounds, and quite often they can only be "healed" or addressed in relationship with others – that can be in relationship with a therapist, friends, family, or a partner. You're right: we are not islands, and the messages culture sends to us that we need to "heal" ourselves before seeking love, wanting love, being in a relationship with a partner is just… bullshit. That's not to say that cultivating self-compassion isn't a good idea, or that addressing one's relational patterns isn't valuable – of course they are – but there's no ultimate "there" to reach. There's no "fully healed." It's all a bunch of idealistic nonsense to me, frankly, and I believe the messages that tell us otherwise are damaging to us as relational beings. I'm a person who has no problem being alone and I enjoy my solitude immensely, but I suffer from loneliness quite often. My yearning for high-quality, meaningful connection is often painful and unfulfilled, and I don't think that makes me abnormal, "unhealed," or somehow lacking in self-love. Sometimes I'm just unfulfilled, and I wish for warmth, affection, touch, and connection with other human beings when I'm not getting enough of it, and there's absolutely no shame in that. Ever. Give yourself the grace to allow yourself to want that. It's totally normal. Edit to add: There are some attachment researchers who contend that anxious preoccupied are more prone to a chronic sense of emotional loneliness and emotional deprivation (as defined by the Emotional Deprivation Schema). But AP are more likely to downplay the importance of their needs, so this can actually reinforce the sense of loneliness. See Dan Brown's The Attachment Project. |
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