fiona
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Post by fiona on Aug 3, 2024 11:43:37 GMT
Hi there, Would love some sage advice.. This Brit applauds and thanks you for this forum. I’m in early fifties as is my partner who is FA. I’m hard won secure after leaving a coercive violent marriage twenty years ago, built a good career, have adult son and have been lucky to have been offered and engaged in therapy with clinical psychologists for years. I’ve explored childhood trauma which led me to the early coercive marriage and enjoyed long term relationship with another secure for 8 years. We parted lovingly because I did not feel I could give him a child.My masters is in Psychology so I did study Bowlby back in the day( facepalm!) have always worked in person centred occupations. Have supportive friends and family members. Yet I was blindsided two weeks ago, after a year? Stonewalled after a sortable argument..reached out then was ignored. I felt humiliated, wrong footed, in shock for first few days,used, compassionate towards him, helpless, still engaged in the relationship, angry, sad.. some flashbacks.. immobile. Today, I might be turning a corner. Just need to disentangle my thoughts, check in with my body’s responses and begin the decision process about the relationship .. for me? Background, I’ll summarise.. met online, I wasn’t enjoying online dating but he appeared and we connected. Fairly instantly, it felt secure, adult and non threatening. Strong physical attraction but we didn’t jump in, I’d been celibate for years? He seemed to need more contact than me, he works away at times and would text ten/twenty times a day, long phonecalls for hours, when he was back we saw each other 3/4 times a week.. we made plans and I was never bored in his company. We shared how natural it was, how easy.. my feelings grew and we told each other we loved one another. I shared I was a survivor of marital abuse, he shared he’d had a loveless, non sexual marriage which ended when she put him out pre pandemic, then quick divorce? They stayed for kids.. Looking back now, we didn’t share enough.. no deep dives on why his marriage failed. He didn’t go there, was future focused with me..ahem? Last month or so of relationship, I felt a ‘superficiality’, our convos weren’t deep, he was using sex to bond, lovely but what were the relationship goals. Did we share how we saw the future. I made an attempt( careful choice of words).. to engage with him, I hadn’t met his family( brief intro to oldest son).. he’d respond by showing me he had made plans for next week, we booked holiday together.. yet I was asking myself.. ‘am I an adjunct’. There were two shutdowns, one where I felt a bit undervalued/ that he wasn’t being honest with me.. he triggered to the point of pushing me away.. wouldn’t discuss. I persevered, spoke gently to him, backed off. He apologised in email, gave me flowers. Then three days later, after making love, telling me he loved me and a lovely morning in a city garden.. we had words in a cafe( initially a tiff) he deactivated severely, began berating my son and his achievements, very jealous, began relating a list of my faults( clearly he’d kept a score), he got angry, gaslit and when finally I triggered to quiet anger and responding -he walked away. He left me, without a phone charge in a town 25 miles from where I live. Flee response… yep. No real resolve afterwards. He texted me’You are a lovely and beautiful person, I can’t do this. When I asked , let’s have space then talk he said ‘No.. I can’t be in a relationship I just hurt people’ etc. He said I thought of him as a ‘terrible person’( projection?) Then he stonewalled. I reached out day 5, acknowledging we processed anger differently, told him I loved him and reiterated his great qualities which I valued. I clarified my feelings. No response. So two weeks in, after initial having to stay in bed for two days.. I’m thinking is it worth it? During these types of shutdowns with a FA, everyone, unless they’re a psychopath gets a bit AP, I trusted the work I’ve done on myself though and my re- balancing is happening. He showed unconditional love to me.. in the moment. It’s not his fault he was seduced by Limerence and oxytocin. He would absolutely respond to doing work on himself though.. that’s the rub? Is it worth a try…Mother who had four boys, a bit neglectful, unfaithful dad,his emotional needs suppressed, wife who put her kids first, two boys again.. then me, idealised but with a son I adore and am proud of.. incidentally my son has just last month beaten cancer after a years treatment? I think when my partner gets close, he wrongly feels someone else is a priority. He feels core abandonment wound. Yet, as a secure.. who wobbled…Can I pursue this further or let it die on what seemed a very healthy vine. I’m in a quandary today.. any advice would be greatly appreciated?
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Post by anne12 on Aug 3, 2024 13:02:19 GMT
If you make a love vision , is he then a man who fits into your love vision ? Do you want a more masculine or a more feminine leaning man ? You can each make a love vision and compare them. The first thing people with desorganized attatchmentstyle has to work with, is with the instinctive level - the reptile part of the brain - often somatic experiencing therapy is recommended. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1073/healing-disorganized-attatchment-chock-traumaIs he sorry ?
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fiona
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Post by fiona on Aug 3, 2024 13:18:34 GMT
If you make a love vision , is he then a man who fits into your love vision ? Do you want a more masculine or a more feminine leaning man ? You can each make a love vision and compare them. The first thing people with desorganized attatchmentstyle has to work with, is with the instinctive level - the reptile part of the brain - often somatic experiencing therapy is recommended. Is he sorry ? [
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fiona
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Post by fiona on Aug 3, 2024 13:28:12 GMT
I guess he fits my love vision fairly accurately or he did before the deactivation. I get the reptile brain responses and the hampering of the pre frontal cortex.. yes this was happening to him and he may still be dealing with trauma aftermath. I’ve stepped away to let this happen. I have no way to know whether he is sorry.. if sorry means does he feel shame.. maybe? If it means did he reach out and say sorry.. no . His statements were about abdicating a situation, he seemed not to consider me at all. As he’s been silent now for coming up for two weeks.. there’s just not enough information to go on. Just my own self worth asserting itself I guess.. I cannot deal much longer with the stonewalling. There is also a practical issue to deal with, a holiday we had booked? I need to know how to proceed with that, had booked pet sitters etc, money put aside for completion of deposit.. Just occurred.. maybe he felt threatened by holiday yet he was sending me pics, videos of our stay and location ( days ago?) Thanks for getting back..
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Post by anne12 on Aug 3, 2024 13:37:50 GMT
When having sex, the tension in ans increases. This can trigger trauma as trauma connects with intensity
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Post by anne12 on Aug 3, 2024 13:46:10 GMT
I personally love these exercises: Lovevision - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/31336/Love journey meditation- jebkinnisonforum.com/post/23976/This fantasy journey can help you to attract your future partner. You can also use the exercise, if you already have a partner, whom you would like to stay with. IT Works on the subconcioues level (use 25 min.)
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fiona
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Post by fiona on Aug 3, 2024 14:01:03 GMT
When having sex, the tension in ans increases. This can trigger trauma as trauma connects with intensity Yes.. although I felt sex was bonding to him, he was expressive and loving, cuddly afterwards? It was as if this was how he expressed deep connection? The love vision is very interesting, Thankyou Anne.. I can see some gaps there and also causes me to reflect on my needs to and how they may have differed to his. Re sex.. just thinking the closeness factor that it induced for him may have been akin to early, very early child closeness and getting primary needs met. A tiff afterwards may have triggered the maternal abandonment that happened afterwards. I also cannot ignore that I’m a Mum and that’s a big focus for me, there was undoubted jealousy in my partner towards that. Such jealousy points to much unresolved attachment issues from very early on.. would you agree.
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Post by anne12 on Aug 3, 2024 14:37:00 GMT
Maybe - Well I do not know. I think it can be complicated. How much space do you give him to be part of your little family ? Some women can over function because they had to take care of everything by themselves as a single mother and therefore can be too much in their masculine energy. If a man is mostly masculine in his energy and you are not able to receive his gifts and what he has to offer as a man, then he can give up giving. It’s also about gender roles ect. It is not his own sperm ect….blah blah blah… jebkinnisonforum.com/post/25312/jebkinnisonforum.com/post/38444/…..A masculine man wants to give. The masculine energy is first and foremost rewarding. The vast majority of men wants to give to the woman they have chosen. Yes, they often want to give to many women. I'm not talking about being unfaithful, but they might be holding the door for women, showing care for an elderly woman, who can't find her purse at the supermarket, helping a colleague make her internet work, or getting something fixed in his girlfriends home…. If a man does not feel that he can help or contribute with anything, he easily loses the meaning of staying in a relationship, and then he will withdraw emotionally or choose to leave the woman, because there is no need for him. So giving is simply fundamental to his self-esteem. Therefore, he fits with a woman who is in her feminine energy, which is the receiving energy.... Does he have children ? Feminine / masculine and the different attatchmentstyles jebkinnisonforum.com/post/37991/People with disorganized attatchmentstyle can be both , either more feminine leaning or more masculine leaning
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Post by anne12 on Aug 3, 2024 15:48:04 GMT
About sex
When men are having sex their testorone level drops and they get more estrogen. Then he can move away in order to build up his testorone level again Men with a lot of tetostorone will not get bonded as fast by having sex. On the other hand most women produce oxytocin (the bonding hormone) when having sex and thats why they often wants to cuddle, spoon and maybe talk after having sex
Some people have got something called the rigid character structure They have a split between their upper body and their lover body They can either have sex or love the person, but they can not do both. Try to look it up in the general discussion forum
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fiona
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Post by fiona on Aug 3, 2024 16:07:18 GMT
About sex When men are having sex their testorone level drops and they get more estrogen. Then he can move away in order to build up his testorone level again Men with a lot of tetostorone will not get bonded as fast by having sex. On the other hand most women produce oxytocin (the bonding hormone) when having sex and thats why they often wants to cuddle, spoon and maybe talk after having sex Some people have got something called the rigid character structure They have a split between their upper body and their lover body They can either have sex or love the person, but they can not do both. Try to look it up in the general discussion forum
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fiona
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Post by fiona on Aug 3, 2024 16:20:36 GMT
Anne12. Yes the masculine/ feminine energy is relevant I think. He made me feel feminine, possibly more than I had for a while. It was a boon to the relationship. He actually said I made him feel more manly.. however you’re right, on reflection it changed subtly? As a lone parent( single parent), I had developed assertive, goal oriented traits. This is part of my character actually I am competitive.. after abusive marriage I needed to be this way. I put my son, who is an optometrist thru school, never relied on a guy to pay bills etc. I suppose it’s my default setting when there is a blot on landscape. I know I have inner resources to survive. As to my feminine side, I’m a big nurturer, carer.. I looked after both my elderly parents at the end of their lives, am known for loyalty and tolerance of friends, arty, creative.. So I feel like it’s a mix? I remember latterly preventing my partner from helping me, with household stuff? I just got on and did it myself.. I do need to reflect on my actions further on this aspect. You’ve opened me up to exploring this for sure.
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fiona
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Posts: 14
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Post by fiona on Aug 3, 2024 16:24:50 GMT
About sex When men are having sex their testorone level drops and they get more estrogen. Then he can move away in order to build up his testorone level again Men with a lot of tetostorone will not get bonded as fast by having sex. On the other hand most women produce oxytocin (the bonding hormone) when having sex and thats why they often wants to cuddle, spoon and maybe talk after having sex Some people have got something called the rigid character structure They have a split between their upper body and their lover body They can either have sex or love the person, but they can not do both. Try to look it up in the general discussion forum [br He does have two children, adults but younger than my son. He said his wife just wanted to be ‘a mother’ she rejected him sexually when they were young, after early menopause. He described the marriage as ‘in name only’ they slept in separate rooms and didn’t talk for weeks on end. He played golf a lot.. my thoughts are what this did to his kids?
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Post by anne12 on Aug 3, 2024 17:34:59 GMT
jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1376/womens-feminine-masculine-energy-hormonelI can recommend this: jebkinnisonforum.com/post/36635/jebkinnisonforum.com/post/36729/Being a woman is not just being feminine but it is also necessary to be in contact with your inner Divine feminine woman. A lot of women haven't learned how to be this, from their own mother. She sit in the primal part of the brain. (Reptile brain and the limbic brain). It has also something to do with erotic energy. 1) Practise recieving with grace with an open heart 2) Practise finding pleasure in your daily life 3) Being able to say yes and no. So that your inner divine feminine woman can protect you and can stand up for you. Since you are in your early fifties then you might also want to check the word Lebenswende - (maybe you already know the word) - Our role as a woman, as a mother, as a daughter is changing We get a call to take a closer look at ourselves Identity crises can show up, when you do not have to be a mother to younger children The shadow strikes in menopause If we embrace it, we can become ourselves without fighting Emotional states that are not healed can be the cause of mood swings The blur between the unconscious and the conscious becomes thinner This gives us the opportunity to become a whole woman jebkinnisonforum.com/post/46774/
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Post by alexandra on Aug 3, 2024 18:45:37 GMT
Why are you blaming yourself and telling yourself a story that this is because you wobbled in security? He's a grown man, and that's not what caused him to act in a way that's unacceptable for a mature adult. Sometimes it doesn't help to look at things through an attachment style lens, it helps to just look at the facts:
- He is stonewalling you for weeks instead of resolving conflict together - He physically left you somewhere, leading you to be in a potentially unsafe situation - He is jealous of your family member and your relationship with a family member (this is even worse since it's your own kid!) - He said he can't do this and hurts everyone, instead of taking responsibility for his own actions and laying out a plan for him to get help with his issues -- this is very important, because you need to believe what he says
He isn't an inexperienced teenager or 20 year old. If this is how he acts at this age, it's very very very unlikely to change. How is this meeting your needs? You've been in what sounds like a happy long term relationship before even if there ended up being a deal breaker over having more kids. Therefore, you've experienced a partner who is solid in both good times and bad times. Having someone who can't communicate, can't cope with stress, runs away, and can't resolve conflict when everything isn't completely wonderful is someone you can't trust.
I wouldn't worry about getting him back. I think he's done you a favor, which is also probably what he thinks and is why he's not responding. And that in itself is completely unfair too! Do you want someone who makes a big decision after a year, which is probably to break up even if he danced around using the words, without giving you any voice at all?
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fiona
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Post by fiona on Aug 3, 2024 21:27:12 GMT
Why are you blaming yourself and telling yourself a story that this is because you wobbled in security? He's a grown man, and that's not what caused him to act in a way that's unacceptable for a mature adult. Sometimes it doesn't help to look at things through an attachment style lens, it helps to just look at the facts: - He is stonewalling you for weeks instead of resolving conflict together - He physically left you somewhere, leading you to be in a potentially unsafe situation - He is jealous of your family member and your relationship with a family member (this is even worse since it's your own kid!) - He said he can't do this and hurts everyone, instead of taking responsibility for his own actions and laying out a plan for him to get help with his issues -- this is very important, because you need to believe what he says He isn't an inexperienced teenager or 20 year old. If this is how he acts at this age, it's very very very unlikely to change. How is this meeting your needs? You've been in what sounds like a happy long term relationship before even if there ended up being a deal breaker over having more kids. Therefore, you've experienced a partner who is solid in both good times and bad times. Having someone who can't communicate, can't cope with stress, runs away, and can't resolve conflict when everything isn't completely wonderful is someone you can't trust. I wouldn't worry about getting him back. I think he's done you a favor, which is also probably what he thinks and is why he's not responding. And that in itself is completely unfair too! Do you want someone who makes a big decision after a year, which is probably to break up even if he danced around using the words, without giving you any voice at all? Thanks for that.. yep. That’s my overwhelming feeling.. you’ve summarised it. There is egregious behaviour that I’ve spent decades removing from my life Alexandra. I won’t go back. Hey it was lovely, I was wooed again, promised much.. I get an FA in the height of’‘Limerence ‘but I was beginning to wake up to the real guy. I came through being punched out cold twenty years ago, hiding the tufts of hair that were pulled out my head in front of my students.. I can teach trauma bonding and loss of identity..hmm. I’m in an earned place now and this was a burr in the saddle? It’s my ‘parentified child’ that’s holding me at moment. Can he be helped, oh for sure? Is that my responsibility, I vacillate. Looking at all stuff at moment but mostly for my own development. Stonewalling .. no, it’s ending it for me? I’m venting I know.. my son is early thirties and he was in house visiting when I returned from being left 25 miles away( train taxi back).. he’s an optometrist who lives 200 miles away. We have super, loving but unmeshed relationship. He said’Mum( I’m British).. where have your boundaries gone?’ My best buddy.. Deb said’ He effing loved you.. slept with you.. block the cnut’ We swear a lot here… Yes.. I have experienced solid stuff in long term relationship, in friendships and with some family members. Yet .. my feelings.. I feel I love him? I won’t dance around him on social media though or bargain or have needless hope though.. I have to mourn? I’m too old for unrealistic scenarios, I’m not AP.. I reflect, I sort through, I ground.. I decide. Cheers for comment, much appreciated.
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