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Post by yasmin on Dec 27, 2017 21:00:48 GMT
Hi All,
I haven't seen my ex FA for a couple of months. It's been one of those constant "almost" relationships where he comes closer and then runs for the hills or does something destructive so it feels to me like the perpetual "almost relationship". After a year of knowing each other we did slowly and painfully build some trust and he let me get very close to him emotionally, but just as I think we were on the verge of an actual relationship - we had our first conflict and he basically stonewalled me afterwards instead of talking it through. Since then he's contacted me a few times but mainly quite frosty and closed off.
He contacted me today and asked if I would like to do some things together during the holidays and maybe spend some time together in the city enjoying things and hanging out. It didn't sound like he was asking me on a date, but more to hang out together and do some fun stuff.
I haven't responded to the message yet because I am really unsure of what is best.
On the one hand:
- I know it must have been hard for him to reach out and ask me to hang out after we had that conflict.
- It is also nice that he wants to hang out, which shows he wants to move on from the conflict and keep me in his life.
- I also really like him, really enjoy doing things with him and his company makes me happy.
- really want to be there for him because I honestly think I am actually the only person in the world he is actually emotionally intimate with
- I feel like if we can get past these walls, then he might be the most amazing person ever.
On the other hand:
- His behaviour to me hasn't actually been that great. He's done lots of push-pull, lots of the deactivating strategies from Jeb's book and experiencing those things is actually not very much fun for me.
- Every time we do get close and have a lovely time, he almost always follows this up with doing something to push me away or break the connection.
- I don't think he is actually aware that he hurts me, I don't think he has any self esteem so he doesn't really realise how painful his behavior can be.
- He has behaved in rejecting ways so many times to me that I don't feel "safe" or "trusting" towards him at the moment, and I am nervous about building that up only to go through the same again.
I have read on here about some successful relationships with FAs or DAs and being honest, I am not a very needy person and someone needing a lot of space or even being a bit evasive and non-demonstrative at times is not going to make me feel upset or anxious. However, he tends to use the more hurtful and destructive methods of deactivation that I do actually find very difficult to tolerate and are just not things I want to be part of my life. I do really like him and I do really care about him, but he has to somehow meet me half way if he wants me to be part of his life.
Can anyone give advice on how to lay down boundaries here without them feeling like demands or pressures? I already don't have sex with him (my own firm boundary) as I need an exclusive relationship to offer that to a guy but also in emotional terms, I want to be able to handle his FA behaviours without them actually making me feel bad if that makes sense? Do you think this is a case of just approaching it with complete security in myself and not allowing his deactivating strategies to affect my own sense of peace or do you think it's more a case of saying, "I'd really like to be friends with you, but when you say / do _________ it really makes me feel bad so can you please not do that?".
If any FA's can give me advice on how to relate to him best without triggering him, that would be great. I think my natural state is very open emotionally, very direct, very warm and he finds all this panics him a lot (he has said so) and while I want to just be myself I also don't want to cause him anxiety.
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Post by kristyrose on Dec 28, 2017 17:20:51 GMT
Hi Yasmin,
I wish I could give you some advice, I am actually wondering the exact same thing right now.
When my ex resurfaced after 10 days of NC, we had the most amazing weekend before he went home to visit his family for the holidays. I am so fed up with the back and forth that I'm working up the nerve to have a conversation with him where I tell him we either move forward as a couple or we stop talking all together. I'm nervous about how this will go because he does almost anything to avoid a conversation, and usually when we do he says hurtful things only to do the exact opposite.
I'm not sure if I should send an email first to him, or just invite him over and then ask to talk- I don't want to blindside him but if I give him too much of a heads up, he will just avoid me.
I'm curious to see what others suggest, but I think your awareness of his triggers and your thoughts on how to approach him are a good place to start. It's hard how we have to walk on eggshells with these guys, but that is unfortunately the only way to try and break through.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 28, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
Hey Yasmin...I really like the way you are phrasing that....and I wonder if another option is (if he is completely unaware of what he does) to provide an example of what he does in a generic way and see how he would respond...such as " I am just curious....if someone were to invite you (your FA friend)to hang out and you (your FAfriend) had a great time...but then that person did (whatever that thing is that hurt you-you being Yasmin). How would that make you (the FA) feel? What would your response be?" That way it may be less threatening...but I would love one of the members who relates to FA to answer.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 19:14:25 GMT
The more I read, the more I don't relate to FA, so I don't know if this will be helpful. I respond better to a direct, logical approach, rather than a walk around as long as the the other person is not pushing for a decision that I don't know the answer to. If someone is not logical and is basing it solely on emotions, I may not understand. Emotions are sometimes very illogical. If he uses destructive methods, the best thing in the moment is to walk away and not engage. Any engagement is a reinforcer. I would also have any serious discussions in person and not over text. An approach like, I like hanging out with you, but I don't like when you do...." would work for me (without I want you to do this or that, without an ultimatum, without accusations, etc) And leave it to him to respond.
I would note that if more than half the time, he doesn't make you feel good, it might be worth examining if this is a good relationship for you.
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Post by kristyrose on Dec 28, 2017 19:31:24 GMT
Mary,
Thank you for adding to this discussion!
I wonder, what you think of my situation as it stands- my ex FA keeps coming back to me over and over, he is not able to go even a week or two without reaching out. He broke up with me in April of this year, we went NC for 40 days but he reached out so many times I caved. We have been "dating" since, however the push/pull cycle is even worse as a non-couple. He recently told me he wants to move on more, but that he isn't drawing lines in the sand. So basically it was vague enough to leave the door open. I asked if we could just talk, and he refused so I told him I'm done- and we went NC for 10 days. He then texted and asked to come over, we ended up having a really intimate weekend where he was more loving than I have ever seen in the last 2 years.
My question is, I feel it is time to have a conversation with him about where we stand- I can't go on like this, I want us to acknowledge we are back in a relationship that can have new terms that work for us both, or, we stop all contact indefinitely. I know this is an ultimatum, but not sure what else I can do. I feel trapped. It seems like he cannot let go of me, I know I cannot let go of him, but i cannot tolerate texts saying he needs space to move on, only to have him boomerang right back! Don't know how to approach him at this point.
Any feedback would be so greatly appreciated...
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Post by stavs on Dec 28, 2017 19:38:31 GMT
So basically it was vague enough to leave the door open. I asked if we could just talk, and he refused so I told him I'm done- and we went NC for 10 days. He then texted and asked to come over, we ended up having a really intimate weekend where he was more loving than I have ever seen in the last 2 years. Been there. That loving weekend builds up so much hope only to have the same pattern of them pulling away after their needs are met and they start to feel trapped again. I pray this doesnt happen to you and that a corner was truly turned. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 20:37:25 GMT
Mary, Thank you for adding to this discussion! I wonder, what you think of my situation as it stands- my ex FA keeps coming back to me over and over, he is not able to go even a week or two without reaching out. He broke up with me in April of this year, we went NC for 40 days but he reached out so many times I caved. We have been "dating" since, however the push/pull cycle is even worse as a non-couple. He recently told me he wants to move on more, but that he isn't drawing lines in the sand. So basically it was vague enough to leave the door open. I asked if we could just talk, and he refused so I told him I'm done- and we went NC for 10 days. He then texted and asked to come over, we ended up having a really intimate weekend where he was more loving than I have ever seen in the last 2 years. My question is, I feel it is time to have a conversation with him about where we stand- I can't go on like this, I want us to acknowledge we are back in a relationship that can have new terms that work for us both, or, we stop all contact indefinitely. I know this is an ultimatum, but not sure what else I can do. I feel trapped. It seems like he cannot let go of me, I know I cannot let go of him, but i cannot tolerate texts saying he needs space to move on, only to have him boomerang right back! Don't know how to approach him at this point. Any feedback would be so greatly appreciated... Please don't take this personally, but ultimatums are a means of control. They are used by parents with children, because children don't know the consequences of their actions yet. As they grow, they learn there are consequences to their actions and no longer need the ultimatums. The ultimatums are understood. Everyone has ultimatums in our head and everyone already knows the door will shut permanently at some point. We don't need to say it or impose it because it's just appears to be controlling and trust me, he already knows. You have told him "I'm done" before, but you weren't done and you're not done. He chases, you cave and the cycle keeps repeating. You have to stop the cycle. You have to either be the stable, secure one or shut the door permanently. Texting, in my opinion, is a terrible way to communicate about important things. He doesn't want to acknowledge a relationship at this point and you do. You will have to find a middle ground to stay together. If the ultimatum is acknowledging the relationship or no contact, you already know the answer. If you want to stay together, you will both have to work at getting on the same page. Unfortunately, the faster one will have to wait for the slower one, but don't think of it as waiting, it's growing together. If he pulls away and you don't push or say "I'm done", what happens? If you just "stand still" , what happens? |
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Post by kristyrose on Dec 28, 2017 21:05:15 GMT
Mary,
Thank you so much for the feedback. I definitely do not take your response personally. In fact, I do agree about ultimatums. I've never tried one with him, or anyone really because I've never believed in them. I guess I just feel at a loss as to what I can do.
He likes texting as a way to control the dialogue and he can then decide if he wants to stonewall or change the subject abruptly. I told him I would still like to talk in person, but he ignores that completely. I suppose the conversation could be about that middle ground, which I'm very open to discussing. I'm working on my AP issues with a therapist and EMDR for the past 6 years so I'm learning how to be secure. When he pulls away, I usually just leave him be and feel sad privately, this is the only time I claimed I was done- and it made him chase me all the more. I don't want that, I just want to figure out how to stop the cycle and still be together.
Instead of initiating a talk about the middle ground, should I just "stand still"? I've tried to let things be, but without provocation even, he will send a text about wanting to move on which causes me great pain- so I leave him alone until he comes back. I want him to hear me out, but I don't want to scare him off, at the same time doing nothing seems to perpetuate the cycle anyway-
Sorry, I know you can't speak for all Avoidants, but I do appreciate and respect your opinion greatly.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 21:38:00 GMT
Mary, Thank you so much for the feedback. I definitely do not take your response personally. In fact, I do agree about ultimatums. I've never tried one with him, or anyone really because I've never believed in them. I guess I just feel at a loss as to what I can do. He likes texting as a way to control the dialogue and he can then decide if he wants to stonewall or change the subject abruptly. I told him I would still like to talk in person, but he ignores that completely. I suppose the conversation could be about that middle ground, which I'm very open to discussing. I'm working on my AP issues with a therapist and EMDR for the past 6 years so I'm learning how to be secure. When he pulls away, I usually just leave him be and feel sad privately, this is the only time I claimed I was done- and it made him chase me all the more. I don't want that, I just want to figure out how to stop the cycle and still be together. Instead of initiating a talk about the middle ground, should I just "stand still"? I've tried to let things be, but without provocation even, he will send a text about wanting to move on which causes me great pain- so I leave him alone until he comes back. I want him to hear me out, but I don't want to scare him off, at the same time doing nothing seems to perpetuate the cycle anyway- Sorry, I know you can't speak for all Avoidants, but I do appreciate and respect your opinion greatly. I'm sure I don't have the answer, but standing still has worked for me. It means stating your case and then letting him respond how he will. I don't know how to describe it except, stating what you want consistently while being supportive and then letting him react, almost like a broken record. For instance, if he says he needs to move on, state you would like to get together and talk about it but understand if he needs to move on, you will respect that. That's it, one text, then let it go. If he wants to pick a fight, same thing, one text, you would like to get together and talk about it. If he keeps going, you don't engage. You're setting a boundary without engaging. I think you have to let go of the fear of scaring him off. I know it's easier said than done, but there's always a risk no matter what you do. He will eventually have to decide if he is in or out as you will have to as well. Subconsciously (I think) he wants to scare you way,then the decision is out of his hands. |
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Post by kristyrose on Dec 28, 2017 21:59:34 GMT
Thank you, Mary.
I see what you mean by standing still now- I thought it meant doing nothing at this point and leaving it be. But in reality, it is as you said, setting a boundary and not engaging in the cycle.
Perhaps you're right about scaring me away. He is very passive in our relationship, always has been. I'm usually the one to want to initiate conversations, or reach out when there is silence. The only time I have seen him react strongly is when I stop contacting him or responding to him altogether. That seems to trigger the pull response from him. He also repeatedly will send a text every few weeks about wanting a weekend to himself, that we should not expect to see each other every weekend, then without fail, he will contact me a day or two later asking to go to a movie or come over. I feel like he keeps sending these types of texts as an insurance to fall back on- he can say, "no, I told you we should have no expectations"- when I expect to see him per our usual routine.
You are correct, I am afraid of scaring him off and losing him. I am always afraid of losing him, yet, he's never been mine really. Neither one of us can truly move on in this state, but ultimatums won't work either. Sigh. This is helpful though, I know you don't have the answers, but talking this out with you is helping me so much. I cannot thank you enough.
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Post by yasmin on Dec 29, 2017 1:08:08 GMT
Thanks everyone. We spent the day together today and had so much fun. I then went home around 6 and a couple of hours later he decided to make the 1 hour drive and came over and spent the evening with me too..we had dinner, cuddled up and watched movies.
We talked calmly about our argument and I explained why I'd been upset and he apologised and said he understood and that he'd said it all badly but hadn't meant it that way.
I still think he just wants to be friends though! ! He did keep holding my hand and touching me and lots of kisses but I don't think he actually wants a relationship with me so there's not much I can do.
We did chat a bit about attachment theory and he says he thinks I'm FA too. Maybe he's right, but it was still a great talk and a great day.
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