|
|
Post by jayber on Dec 29, 2017 12:50:02 GMT
I really wanted to share my experiences of Fearful Avoidants because I learned so much dating one and thought it might help others who came here looking for help. To give you some context, I came out of a relationship with an FA about six months ago. I went into the relationship as an earned Secure but left it even more Secure than ever. I was previously Anxious having grown up in an abusive home (and I used to also become Avoidant if I met an Anxious partner). The Best Bits- You appreciate that Actions are louder than words: When an FA likes you, you'll know it. For an FA to reach out to someone is a big deal to them. The more secure you are in yourself, the more you'll appreciate their actions to reach out (because you're not going to get a ton of open direct statements reassuring you).
- Trust: FAs take a very long time to trust someone. It's an admirable trait that can teach you to slow down and appreciate someone slowly. FA's are in no rush and we could all do with slowing down a bit and appreciate someone (or something) a bit more slowly. When an FA trusts you enough to display affection and be intimate, that's a huge compliment towards you. Don't force the clam shell open, let the pearl reveal itself.
- Loyalty: FAs can make fiercely loyal friends with you. Given how much time they need to trust someone, they won't let someone they trust go easily. They value Loyalty in return, but again they don't want their clam shell forced open. You'll have to be patient and let it open.
- Sensitivity: FAs are usually very sensitive people. Successful FAs have learned to fake their way through a lot of social situations and never reveal just how sensitive or hurt they are. However with you they can reveal their sensitive side and you'll appreciate a special depth of human tenderness. Some FAs are also very tuned in with animals.
The Not So Best Bits
Dismissive: They dismiss to you how important you are to them. This can be very distressing and painful if you do not have a huge amount of trust in your own feelings and rely on others to reassure you (alert to Anxious people!). Remember that this is about them protecting themselves from a perceived threat. It's not about you directly at all.
Intoxicating: They are like an addiction if you are Anxious. If you are anxious you might be attracted to the FA's avoidant tendencies compiled with their great capacity for sensitivity. It's a deadly mix for those who are anxious because FAs feed your unconscious self fulfilling fears and your low-esteem. At the same time they occasionally offer glimpses of what 'could be' which is hugely appealing to you. If you want to date an FA, you need to build up your self-esteem and trust in yourself more. But as you do that, you'll realise how crap they are as real partners (as oppose to someone to lust after) and you'll probably leave them.
Hard Work: You'll be doing all the relationship work. FAs fear intense conversations and situations. So if there is a problem in their relationship, you'll be the one who has to step and talk about it - always. You'll have to work to see the problem through and you'll have to coach them at the same time. This is really a big commitment on your side and if you don't love yourself properly (which Anxious people tend not to), you're going to deplete a lot of emotional resources and invest a lot of yourself into this. It will suck up your life.
Patience: You have to be extremely patient for a scraps of appreciation. If you're with an FA, you going to need good friends, family and a satisfying job to help you meet your needs across a whole spectrum of emotional requirements like love, affection and validation. FAs rarely spontaneously show appreciation towards you (but in turn, when they do, the value of it is intoxicatingly high). You'll need to accept this.
Passive Aggressive: FAs fear intimacy. It's extremely intense for them to have a conversation about emotions and feelings. Because of this, if you upset one, they will never directly challenge you. Instead you'll start noticing passive aggressive behaviour which you have to f*cking decode as if you're breaking the ENIGMA sometimes. This said, you can connect with them if you show due respect, hold no judgement and don't get angry at them (but boy no one is perfect so that's a tough act to keep up!).
Hope that's helpful in some way to others. And obviously if you're FA feel free to challenge these as mine come from just one FA. If you have experiences, feel free to add your own.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 20:27:15 GMT
This is a good run down. I love my FA with all my heart. I believe it has been very difficult with my ex FA because I was secure enough to figure him out, although losing him has hurt like crazy, it is so important to not only understand these things but to ACCEPT them.
|
|
|
|
Post by kristyrose on Dec 29, 2017 20:43:01 GMT
I think acceptance is key! I love mine as well, and this is a good run down. I find myself at times though feeling quite resentful for the scraps and having to exercise the kind of patience I sometimes question, at the same time, I love him so much. I find that coming from a place of compassion and understanding can do wonders for my feelings. I as an AP, know that I have issues that are so engrained in me, that after 6 years of therapy and EMDR I am still struggling to become more secure.
Anyone ever experience this: my FA ex will ask for videos of what I'm up to with my pets even though he lives a mile away from me and could just come over- it's like he wants to be involved in my life, but at times, only at a safe distance.
|
|
|
|
Post by susabella on Jan 15, 2018 0:59:40 GMT
I think acceptance is key! I love mine as well, and this is a good run down. I find myself at times though feeling quite resentful for the scraps and having to exercise the kind of patience I sometimes question, at the same time, I love him so much. I find that coming from a place of compassion and understanding can do wonders for my feelings. I as an AP, know that I have issues that are so engrained in me, that after 6 years of therapy and EMDR I am still struggling to become more secure. Anyone ever experience this: my FA ex will ask for videos of what I'm up to with my pets even though he lives a mile away from me and could just come over- it's like he wants to be involved in my life, but at times, only at a safe distance. |
|
|
|
Post by susabella on Jan 15, 2018 1:33:43 GMT
Here's a sick one for you,..my FA lives in apartment directly across the hall from mine,..and we spent literally hours and hours on telephone getting to know one another, in addition to face to face meetings. I learned early on he prefers safe distance from everyone most of the time,and at first we joked about staying in pajamas while we "dated". I was practically his only friend for couple of years, and to me the level of emotional intimacy was far more intense than any physical I'd ever experienced. He's going through therapy and would talk about it fairly easily although I avoided "prying" into the details. After 18 months, I inadvertently mentioned "of course I love you" in a conversation about mutual friends and how we all know and care about one another. Well, hell's bells. He immediately went NC and shut down completely. Told one dear mutual friend "she didn't do anything wrong - I'm just scared and ran as fast as I could from her". He had told me of his fears and phobias, including intimacy, but the depth of our verbal intimacy -- I mean no holds barred in terms of secrets, experiences, regrets, life goal plans, and of course HUMOR -- kept us going. I had never had a soulmate before, even after a (forty-year) marriage (and a thirty-five yr marriage for him). Talk about loss -- !!
So when I read Kinnison's material about fearful avoidance I recognized my guy, to a "T". Have read much more and found this forum. I think most everyone here is younger than me, but at 65 I'm a newbie at dating. Cannot imagine another as fabulous as this guy, but aside from "hi" in the apt. hallway, my friend doesn't exist. He is deliberately avoiding me, I know. I feel like a teenager but I continue to hope he will come back (it's been four months). I bake a lot for friends in apt. building and I continue my old habit of sharing sweets with him periodically - hanging brownies on his door handle sounds childish but it was always the kind of gesture he adored. He is not seeing anyone else -- stays home most of the time. He surely misses our relationship as much as I do. Right??? Thank you for any reply.
|
|
|
|
Post by susabella on Jan 15, 2018 17:51:06 GMT
OK y'all, after sleeping on my entry into the world of this Forum I realize should add a bit -- Jayber hit my nerve with comment above re "what to expect and how to handle it" - everything mentioned seems great advice and info re how to proceed..,.thank you! I didn't even pose a question to the forum -- but here it is...how do you really know when to let go? This guy is so special and what we both want (and said to each other) is a companion for rest of life - don't need picket fence house again, no marriage commitment, just enjoy life together on mutually compatible level for each of us a new start, incomprehensible as it may seem. I actually did not realize a man could ever be as sensitive/intense about relationships as he is. I probably sound like a teenager with a first crush, but the feelings were (and still are) so delicious, I cannot dismiss them. Oh yes, must mention that my 40 yr marriage was to an intensely narcissistic DA - and my formerly secure personality was submerged until I got the nerve to leave him...and my New Guy helped reawaken me - though admit I've been quite anxious and made silly girlfriend mistakes. Any hope for me???
|
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Jan 15, 2018 20:29:25 GMT
Jayber this is an excellent point and exactly what happened to me:
" If you want to date an FA, you need to build up your self-esteem and trust in yourself more. But as you do that, you'll realise how crap they are as real partners (as oppose to someone to lust after) and you'll probably leave them. "
Susanbella this also taps into your question about when is enough enough.
I am FA and was with a severely avoidant partner for a long time - in the end to survive the relationship I realised I needed to truly begin to learn to love myself and be kind to myself, to stop the self deception and this meant being more honest in our partnership also. It was at that point that the relationship failed because I became simply unable or unwilling to put my life on hold (which is essentially what happens when you walk on eggshells around someone) whilst he acted out his issues again and again at my emotional expense.
I think if you can reach a place of clarity yourself, you can begin to see that trying to fix the person or the relationship is fruitless and then it becomes easier to make the decision as to if and when to leave.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 3:59:18 GMT
Jayber this is an excellent point and exactly what happened to me: " If you want to date an FA, you need to build up your self-esteem and trust in yourself more. But as you do that, you'll realise how crap they are as real partners (as oppose to someone to lust after) and you'll probably leave them. " Susanbella this also taps into your question about when is enough enough. I am FA and was with a severely avoidant partner for a long time - in the end to survive the relationship I realised I needed to truly begin to learn to love myself and be kind to myself, to stop the self deception and this meant being more honest in our partnership also. It was at that point that the relationship failed because I became simply unable or unwilling to put my life on hold (which is essentially what happens when you walk on eggshells around someone) whilst he acted out his issues again and again at my emotional expense.I think if you can reach a place of clarity yourself, you can begin to see that trying to fix the person or the relationship is fruitless and then it becomes easier to make the decision as to if and when to leave. This is such an apt way of putting things - I'd love to really work on my relationship and move it along, but at the end of the day, it takes two hands to clap. If the other hand doesn't want to clap with me, then I can't put my life on hold to accommodate that big of a request. I did that once for my ex bf, but I was young and had time to spend. |
|
|
|
Post by trickyone on Jan 21, 2018 9:20:08 GMT
A couple of things I've noticed from recent conversations with my ex - we have had fairly regular contact since we split mid-last year. I hadn't seen him for a month or so and was doing my best not to contact, although it was hard (I'm secure but still felt hurt by his push-pull behaviour). I got a text saying he'd like to pop round for a drink, but missed the message. When I rang a few days later he wanted to know why I wanted to see him (!) and was worried he'd done something wrong. He also said he was worried we would become intimate again, so acknowledges the attraction we had is still there. I really don't want to lose him from my life (and he's just rejoined the social group we meet through) so that would be hard anyway. I've been seeing someone else casually but still feel a big attraction to my ex. Hoping it will go with time.
|
|
|
|
Post by susabella on Jan 27, 2018 2:19:48 GMT
Thanks to all -- appreciate sharing advice. I'm still incredulous that folks who are FA can continue without resolving intimacy/sharing life and love. Guess I should be grateful that I can, and will continue - even making childish mistakes learning to date again. No more trying to clap with just one hand!!
|
|
|
|
Post by badger on Mar 5, 2018 16:44:38 GMT
Note to everyone on this thread. FA or not, I’m an SA, 55 years old and this is my first experience with an FA. I have two early 20’s kids who are phenomenal. I did a good job there. Long story short, I fell madly in love with someone. We went hard right away, she did the hardcore pursuit and told me she was madly in love with me after 1 month. Put me in her kids lives(12-14), which she had plenty of opportunities with other people before but never dreamed of it. Things unraveled after 4 months of spending lots of time together with her and her kids. We were all in and then poof, 3 weeks if I need my space, I’m very independent. I was flabbergasted and beyond perplexed. Got into therapy and my guy pegged it...FA textbbook. Must say this is my first FA relationship and I have had my share of them. Problem is, she made me fall so in love with her with who she is when she’s not anxious. I have read so much in the past month on whatbis is to be FA, so I can understand. You all have helped me so much. It’s scary but I can’t help how I feel or how much I love her. She said that she feels like she let me down and her kids because I really connected with them. At this point, I’m so not ready to give up because she is so important. Thanks again, this site is amazing. If there is anything I can add to the discussion I would love that.
|
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Mar 5, 2018 21:04:58 GMT
Welcome Badger and please join in - it helps everyone to hear different perspectives and it also often helps to know you're not alone when you're hurting.
Whatever your attachment style, when push comes to shove, most of us have learnt that healing can only come from the individual themselves - that any amount of "support" for the loved one isn't going to change them unless they have real internal motivation to do the dirty work themselves,
Be there for yourself first.
|
|
|
|
Post by BreakingTheSpell on Mar 6, 2018 16:09:45 GMT
Note to everyone on this thread. FA or not, I’m an SA, 55 years old and this is my first experience with an FA. I have two early 20’s kids who are phenomenal. I did a good job there. Long story short, I fell madly in love with someone. We went hard right away, she did the hardcore pursuit and told me she was madly in love with me after 1 month. Put me in her kids lives(12-14), which she had plenty of opportunities with other people before but never dreamed of it. Things unraveled after 4 months of spending lots of time together with her and her kids. We were all in and then poof, 3 weeks if I need my space, I’m very independent. I was flabbergasted and beyond perplexed. Got into therapy and my guy pegged it...FA textbbook. Must say this is my first FA relationship and I have had my share of them. Problem is, she made me fall so in love with her with who she is when she’s not anxious. I have read so much in the past month on whatbis is to be FA, so I can understand. You all have helped me so much. It’s scary but I can’t help how I feel or how much I love her. She said that she feels like she let me down and her kids because I really connected with them. At this point, I’m so not ready to give up because she is so important. Thanks again, this site is amazing. If there is anything I can add to the discussion I would love that. I highlighted a line that triggered my alarms as an FA. We are all those things, anxious and avoidant. If you love her non anxious side, it shows, she probably felt the rejection to a part of herself. You may be repeating a family history here, insecure people have been conditionally loved at an early age, and they attach from the side of fear, not from the side of acceptance. Even if you unconsciously rejected a part of her, she has felt it, trust me on this that we are hyper sensitive to rejection. |
|
|
|
Post by badger on Mar 6, 2018 17:02:53 GMT
Breaking the Spell - fist of all let me say that I think you have incredible insight. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking an interest in my situation. Before I expound, let me just reiterate that I have been in a number of relationships over the years, age has a lot to do with it and trust me I’m a GUY. 😎. With that said I look inward all the time and really look for real discourse. Again, if there is any perspective I can offer up on anything you would need to discuss, I am here. I sorta feel like this can be a drain on you and others that have reached out. Just sayin’! Now- to address your point, yes when we got back from our amazing vaca(during which she told me I didn’t need to hold back in any area anymore. Before we left for vaca she got the flu and I took care of her, grocery shopped, took her kids to school as juggled my demanding job in real estate finance. It was so rewarding and she told me she could never tell me how much she felt closer to me. So I was so struck at the sudden turn. Now I think I am getting it through this recent education. After she said that she needed time to “figure things out” I wrote her a text when she was away with her kids and her friends kid on Presidents’ Day weekend. The text was that I am strong enough for her to reveal herself and that I would never love or care for somebody as much. Nothing mattered, her past(pretty sure there was infidelity there). Thatbwe all have things that are not proud of, that none of it mattered. She showed her friend, told me it was the most amazing thing she received or ever would and said that’ she was coming over whether I liked it or not. She spent 3 hours with her head in my neck and chest. Not much was said other than that it could in the cards for us. I will tell you that I will never forget one second of that afternoon. However, when she got back home, I got a curt text that it was “a nice visit” and then didn’t hear from her until I texted her the next day, pissed as hell. This is what I struggle to understand. Is this all a test, to see if I won’t go away, a deactivating mechanism or a combo of the two? I am a very strong, loyal man and she loves that about me. It’s all so hard.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2018 17:20:58 GMT
Breaking the Spell - fist of all let me say that I think you have incredible insight. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking an interest in my situation. Before I expound, let me just reiterate that I have been in a number of relationships over the years, age has a lot to do with it and trust me I’m a GUY. 😎. With that said I look inward all the time and really look for real discourse. Again, if there is any perspective I can offer up on anything you would need to discuss, I am here. I sorta feel like this can be a drain on you and others that have reached out. Just sayin’! Now- to address your point, yes when we got back from our amazing vaca(during which she told me I didn’t need to hold back in any area anymore. Before we left for vaca she got the flu and I took care of her, grocery shopped, took her kids to school as juggled my demanding job in real estate finance. It was so rewarding and she told me she could never tell me how much she felt closer to me. So I was so struck at the sudden turn. Now I think I am getting it through this recent education. After she said that she needed time to “figure things out” I wrote her a text when she was away with her kids and her friends kid on Presidents’ Day weekend. The text was that I am strong enough for her to reveal herself and that I would never love or care for somebody as much. Nothing mattered, her past(pretty sure there was infidelity there). Thatbwe all have things that are not proud of, that none of it mattered. She showed her friend, told me it was the most amazing thing she received or ever would and said that’ she was coming over whether I liked it or not. She spent 3 hours with her head in my neck and chest. Not much was said other than that it could in the cards for us. I will tell you that I will never forget one second of that afternoon. However, when she got back home, I got a curt text that it was “a nice visit” and then didn’t hear from her until I texted her the next day, pissed as hell. This is what I struggle to understand. Is this all a test, to see if I won’t go away, a deactivating mechanism or a combo of the two? I am a very strong, loyal man and she loves that about me. It’s all so hard. I always thought in the past that I feared closeness, but I realized I don't fear closeness at all. I want it and love it, but I fear what comes AFTER the closeness. It's especially hard if the person is unaware of their fears. It's not a test. |
|
