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Post by bedlam71 on Jan 24, 2018 1:00:37 GMT
Again, Avoidants come back? News to me! [br It sucks and it's a blessing. I'm ready to feel the blessings.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 2:08:39 GMT
This is from an avoidant’s point of view. I can’t speak for every avoidant, just me.
I recently broke up with my DA boyfriend and it was a very difficult decision, based on differences in our readiness to try a committed relationship. I have come to the point in my recovery where i want to try that ,earnestly , and believe i can do it with consistent accountability to myself and my partner and awareness of habits that sabotage intimacy.
My partner had not progressed to that stage and i don’t know if he ever would. External things happened that precipitated the end.
So, anyway, he and i had a push pull dynamic similar to what many here have experienced. My boundary was, we can’t continue to see each other unless we are in a committed, progressing relationship that i can relax into. He would go along with that for a while, then distance. I would break it off and try to move on, but found it difficult because of my deep feelings for him.
what i can tell you, is that both he and i experienced an inner conflict and found it difficult to say goodbye. We kept trying to redevelop something that would work for both of us. It was like a tug of war, in a way. It came down to differences that were irreconcilable- our differences in our need and capacity for intimacy.
Whether it was him or I reaching back to the relationship, it was because we enjoyed so it much about our togetherness, and didn’t want a final ending. There was always a hope somewhere, on each of our parts, that we could coax the other to accept what we wanted or were capable of.
It can seem cruel, and is selfish in the same way that trying to persuade someone to have a relationship they aren’t comfortable with is, it really comes down to each person wanting what the other can’t or won’t give, and not being able to release them to be as they are and instead trying to get them to adapt to your way of thinking.
So, i’m not saying it isn’t hurtful, selfish, or thoughtless in regard to the other person. I’m not defending it or minimizing the hurt it causes. I have felt that hurt and inflicted it. Without meaning harm. It sounds baffling but many of our behaviors are when we are in the grip of this pattern.
But it can come from a place of deep inner conflict and sadness and regret that things aren’t just different, that things can’t just be “ok”. There can be a feeling of powerlessness and real pain associated with it.
An avoidant may want a relationship but not feel that deep internal need for intimacy and togetherness... The relationship looks very dofferent from their perspective. Without trying to harm you they may have hope that you can just come down to their level the very same way you wish they could come up to yours. It’s really a very different set of needs.
In the end, it just boils down to incompatibility, and knowing your own line. it would be great if endings could just be mutual. But that hurts too. It all hurts.
Again, i can’t speak for every avoidant. I know my ex well, and he was extremely avoidant but i know for sure he missed me terribly and wanted me in his life in a capacity he could handle. He was tender with me, and it was the sweetest thing i’ve ever known. So it hurt to get pushed away and pulled back in but i understand it as a painful conflict he has no way to resolve and so i had to. It still hurts.
Old avoidant coping mechanisms no longer work for me personally so I have to just deal with it every day knowing he would take me back on his terms in a heartbeat. I know how it hurts.
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Post by kristyrose on Jan 24, 2018 2:16:22 GMT
tgat
thank you for that perspective. I am in the middle of this, my ex wanting a friendship with benefits despite being a couple for almost 3 yrs- i didn't ask for a deeper commitment than just taking it day by day, but in the end, he is insisting on calling it a friendship and continues to create distance until I pull away.
we both cannot seem to be apart, and when i point this out, he denies it! though we spend every weekend together and even every thursday for a movie. All i wanted was for him to agree that we can continue as we are with the understanding that we are simply together because we want to.
I'm going to have to just walk away because even trying to compromise or call our relationship nothing doesn't seem to be OK for him. It hurts badly and he always comes back, but this time I need to be clear that I can't be just friends unless we are exclusive friends, which he will of course interpret as too much.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 2:27:24 GMT
Kristyrose, it’s so painful, i know. For me, it came down to really listening to myself in terms of how i felt in the relationship and if i was being true to myself. We could have just gone around and around forever, i think it’s just a matter of one person getting healthy enough in their own process to be able to make the tough call and endure the pain of the breakup and really work through it to identify their own patterns and beliefs and choices.
its ok to see the avoidant as the bad guy but ultimately it doesn’t help you heal your own patterns and develop a new approach to finding a relationship that truly reflects your aspirations. We always have to bring the focus back to us and what we can learn about ourselves.
i don’t have it perfected. My ex and i are in contact over our shared love of houseplants of all things. I have no desire to get back on the merry go round but i still wish it could just work.
So, i stay on my healing path. I am committed to me even if he isn’t haha. Who knows what the future holds for me but I am just trying to stay present and mindful in my own life and process. And allowing myself to tolerate the pain and let it teach me about what really matters to me.
You can learn a lot when you just face things as they are instead of trying so hard to change them. At least there’s that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 3:18:41 GMT
Kristyrose, it’s so painful, i know. For me, it came down to really listening to myself in terms of how i felt in the relationship and if i was being true to myself. We could have just gone around and around forever, i think it’s just a matter of one person getting healthy enough in their own process to be able to make the tough call and endure the pain of the breakup and really work through it to identify their own patterns and beliefs and choices. its ok to see the avoidant as the bad guy but ultimately it doesn’t help you heal your own patterns and develop a new approach to finding a relationship that truly reflects your aspirations. We always have to bring the focus back to us and what we can learn about ourselves. i don’t have it perfected. My ex and i are in contact over our shared love of houseplants of all things. I have no desire to get back on the merry go round but i still wish it could just work. So, i stay on my healing path. I am committed to me even if he isn’t haha. Who knows what the future holds for me but I am just trying to stay present and mindful in my own life and process. And allowing myself to tolerate the pain and let it teach me about what really matters to me. You can learn a lot when you just face things as they are instead of trying so hard to change them. At least there’s that. what a great post tgat, about incompatibility and the inability to meet in the middle and bridge the gap. The thing about "listening to yourself in terms of how I felt in the relationship" is that it's so hard!!! I was really happy and safe when I spent time with my DA together, but there's always a sense of fear about things and the dynamics. I could only behave in a certain way that I know he is completely comfortable with, and the other ways I am sometimes make him uncomfortable e.g., overly affectionate or talking about my feelings and concerns and issues. There's this conflicting duo of "it is perfect the way it is" and "it is absolutely not enough", which goes in a loop resulting in an inability to leave for good. I guess it's a matter of which feeling is "louder" and more consistent. What I've learnt is that sometimes, I'm just not selfish enough and I take whatever I can get, while waiting for things to get better, all at my own costs. I don't get anything to compensate for all the pain (avoidant, divorce, young kids, constant travelling) so this is really a losing investment.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 3:45:35 GMT
anxious, i think it really just took me a lot of practice of “checking in” with myself and not ignoring those little jolts of pain i would get right at the moment my intuition would kick in about the dynamic or how i was suppressing my true self. For most of my life i had no access to those feelings, i was kind of dissociated from them. They just didn’t register as red flags. They were normalized for me by my strange and hurtful environment growing up. So, my process has been to be my own best friend and really care about what goes on inside of me, and take responsibility for it. a great quote i heard was “be the person you needed when you were little”. for me, that means being the person to listen, to care, to make responsible choices for my well being. it means being brave, coaching myself through my fear, being able to be patient with my pain.
it feels good to do these things and i eventually get to it after i kick around and avoid it for a little while. It’s practice. I don’t want to stay the same so my only good option is to keep changing. It’s hard to let go of people who don’t want to change with you but we know how it is to hang on so at some point it just makes plain good sense to move on. As long as you can stay friendly to yourself in the process it’s manageable, You can be resilient and open to learning and open to being wrong, open to the idea that something in the way you’re approaching this is harmful to you, open to making the commitment to find out what it is and change it. That’s how i see it and get through it anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 6:27:35 GMT
tgat, I was thinking of your answer and reflecting upon myself. I think I have doubts of myself, if those little jolts of pain are because of unmet needs or because of unmet neediness. for example, we had a chat about my feelings and issues till 1 am, he couldn't give me answers that I wanted and got impatient that I was not considerate of his needs (he was tired). we did chat, though i did not feel truly addressed, and then was made to feel bad. he said that such conversations drained him, but we did have one. I felt hurt, because I felt unheard and that the conversation was not heartfelt. I couldn't tell if I was just being unreasonable in my expectations or I truly felt unloved and unheard.
Right now, I'm clearly hurting, but I can't tell if it was just old hurt and dissatisfaction that have finally surfaced or I'm just holding onto pain to push him away (OMG Maybe I'm a anxious avoidant myself!!).
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Post by compassionate on Jan 24, 2018 6:48:27 GMT
tgat, I was thinking of your answer and reflecting upon myself. I think I have doubts of myself, if those little jolts of pain are because of unmet needs or because of unmet neediness. for example, we had a chat about my feelings and issues till 1 am, he couldn't give me answers that I wanted and got impatient that I was not considerate of his needs (he was tired). we did chat, though i did not feel truly addressed, and then was made to feel bad. he said that such conversations drained him, but we did have one. I felt hurt, because I felt unheard and that the conversation was not heartfelt. I couldn't tell if I was just being unreasonable in my expectations or I truly felt unloved and unheard. Right now, I'm clearly hurting, but I can't tell if it was just old hurt and dissatisfaction that have finally surfaced or I'm just holding onto pain to push him away (OMG Maybe I'm a anxious avoidant myself!!). I had a long chat with my FA ex the last time i saw him, and he said the exact same thing! He said the conversation drained him and he couldn’t shake off the idea that maybe we are not compatible because we have conflicts. I feel hurt too because i was hoping we could talk things out and i would try my best to accommondate his needs; at that time i didn’t know he’s an FA so i guess talking it out wasn’t the best way to resolve things with FA. He has a pattern of running away from friends and exs once he realized there’s an issue, and instead of trying to resolve it, he ghosted them all as a defense mechanism i guess. Part of me wants him to come back because i really like and miss him. But I know it’s gonna be difficult because i’m an anxious type and i don’t know how to build the trust again after he gave me silent treatment and eventually ran away. I can relate to your pain :”(
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 7:27:48 GMT
well. I couldn't shake off the idea that we're not compatible because I can't seem to get over the feeling of being unheard and dismissed!! I wanted to talk things through and accommodate, but I keep feeling like I'm hitting a wall even though solutions were being offered by him. If i pointed out specific incidents or periods of meanness, he will say he doesn't remember - which of course I would believe over my dead body (he has an excellent memory). He acknowledges the period in which he took space for himself, because that was verbalized and texted to me, so it'll be hard to forget.
Thanks for telling me this, compassionate, because I feel less crazy and unreasonable. I want to get over it, but yea, there's just no trust right now and I can't rebuild it if he keeps "forgetting" that he does mean things!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 9:54:36 GMT
ironically, there you have it. two people in a relationship (labeled or not) expressing discomfort and unhappiness. The difference between the two sometimes is as simple as the avoidant will say “You’re not the One”and distance, and the anxiously attached will doubt their feelings and perceptions and internal messaging and say “But you COULD be the One.... if only...” and cling. And try to morph and deny themselves to make it work. That’s self inflicted agony. Sometimes avoidants do that too and the result is the same. It doesn’t work. Thank goodness. It’s not the way to go.
Two unhappy people with opposite reactions, fueled by internal issues that need to be resolved individually and cause wmtoitional unavailability on both sides.
For me, it took learning that being unhappy and feeling bad were valid reasons to end a relationship, and that accepting who i am and what i need also means accepting someone else and what they need. This means that incompatibility has nothing to do with my worth or their worth and everything to do with differences that are real and ok. I don’t have to approve of someone else’s behavior or get them to change it. I can’t control all that. Ultimately if I am unhappy i have to make decisions regarding my thinking and behavior. That’s the ONLY way I have ever gotten to where i need to be.
We’re all on our own path and when someone’s doesn’t parallel mine we can’t walk together, we’re not going the same direction. . I stay on my path because i know it’s right for me.
It’s kind of a live and let live thing but that perspective comes with self discovery and healing.
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