For avoidants to speak to please

That makes me wonder if these boundary-busting partners aren't covert NPDs and not APs... Seems APs are more likely to want to try therapy/counseling to work on their issues?

I haven't come across a boundary-buster who isn't clearly N, except for a good friend, but then she's terribly religious and is convinced I'm headed to a fiery end. It might be a reflection of her caring that she tried so hard to save me from imminent burning hell.

Okay, this one is hard to post but as an FA I probably had a textbook childhood to create that attachment style. First to say, my parents grew up and changed and are now very loving and I feel even a little bad posting this but...

Growing up was difficult. For a start we moved around a lot and I kept changing schools so I don't think I had close friends or a network to turn to until I was about 14. Until then I felt pretty alone.

My Mother was very unhappy, very unstable, prone to huge viscous arguments that were scary and my Father wasn't much easier. as he was volatile and sometimes aggressive and frightening.  Love was dispensed depending on their mood. If they were in a bad mood that day, I'd get home and be screamed at for practically nothing and it was like walking on eggshells sometimes. You never knew what you were going to get. There was also no boundaries - for example a few times I was woken up in the middle of the night by a drunk parent telling me that they hated my father / mother or asking me to mediate the fight (when I was a very, very small child) or to choose which one I loved more. My brothers and sisters sometimes used to come to my bed for comfort, and I remember a lot of nights crouched in silence at the top of the stairs because I was afraid one of them would hurt the other one and I wanted to protect them both. I just remember being pretty scared sometimes and having no one to turn to for it so I just learned not to turn to anybody and to try and be happy and amenable to keep other people have and restore peace.

All of that said - they were also loving sometimes. Actually maybe MOST of the time, but it was inconsistent. Sometimes extremely loving and they took great care of us, fed us great, took care of us if we were sick. It was just not ALL the time. It was just variable depending on their mood but it was often that they would use you to play off against each other and this was emotionally very tough.

I remember for example one time on my 12th birthday I wanted a sleepover and my Mother said no way because it would be messy (she hated mess and was really OCD like to the point I wasn't allowed to touch my own closet) and my Father heard this and said in front of me that he'd kill her if she didn't let me have my party. then he said to me "of course you can have a sleepover, your mother is a c**t so don't listen to her".

Sp that kind of thing was pretty f-in twisted and made me feel like I had to pretend not to ask for anything or want anything in case it kicked something off. They would also go periods of weeks where they didn't talk to each other and would ask me to pass messages and it was stressful to live in. this stopped when I was around 14 and they mostly stopped fighting, or at least stopped being as crazy. Nowadays they are totally normal and everyone kind of acts like it didn't happen.

what I remember most is that how I felt didn't matter very much at all.  No one really asked about my day or put me first like I do with my son.  It was more like I was the parent and they were the kids.

My brother is a narcissist and all the kids in the family except me have anxiety disorders, so I guess it took it's toll.

Although my parents a normal now and sooooooo loving and good to me, they are still not really able to talk about emotions. They just can't do it, they can only give love by actions or hugs but not by real empathy really. Like if I told my Mother I was really depressed she'd take me to get my nails done or bring my my favourite cookies but she'd be seriously uncomfortable if I wanted to talk to her.

Both parents had abusive childhoods and I think they had us when they were very young and it was just those first few years when things were just volatile and nuts.

But of course the perfect receipt to grow an FA!

yasmin, could this uncertainty in childhood account for your acceptance of an ambivalent partner? I've had Ns in my life and I tolerated boundary busting, but I won't accept the level of ambiguity that you have appeared to put up with. It could be I didn't have to deal with ambiguity at all, the NPD torture is pretty "certain"!

I guess you don't know until you try.  For me, the AP combination with me was disastrous, but everyone is different. If you feel engulfed and he can pull back a bit if you ask, you could be able to meet in the middle. 

Good question curious but in fairness, I don't think I tolerated as much as it sounds.  We dated last year for maybe 6 dates before I was out the door.  I had zero interest in flaky or confusing behavior.  We dated again a few months later for three dates.  Then for 5 months had NC.  Then for about 4 months he was texting and calling and asking to see me and I refused because I thought he was hot and cold   If anything he was persistently chasing me for about a year.

I wasn't really into it until I actually saw him again in person in October when I was very sick and he insisted on coming to take care of me and that night he was so sweet and we became friends after that.  During the friendship phase he wasn't avoidant or confusing, and his walls came down, which was when I fell for him.  He's avoidant but it's his qualities as a man I fell in love with, the actual avoidant part is just one element.  He's also kind and loving and funny and caring and sees me in a really great way.  The actual loving relationship part has only been going on since around mid December so it's only a couple of months of me tolerating and to be honest I just thought it was a friendship drifting naturally into love so all his behavior has surprised me.

I think being FA myself helps a bit, because I get upset, sure, but I also don't get THAT upset.  I can be quite detached.  He told me I am the only woman he's dated in the past 5 years who hasn't ended up hating him or screaming at him and blocking him.  He asked why I never cry and get angry, he doesn't get it.  I think it makes him feel safe because he's not manipulated.  the relationship actually works very well (if he wanted to be in it!!)

I have actually never dated a DA or FA before.  Always secures and maybe a couple of APs.  After my past I never wanted a volatile relationship so I avoid anyone right away if they seem problematic or troubled.  I don't like bad boys.  I don't like needy guys.  If someone isn't consistent I lose interest.  Strong and stable is usually my type, and I like introverts and intellectuals over the flashy guys.

There are a few parts of dating him that I really like though!  Like that he is never clingy.  He gives me space.  He doesn't try and read my mind or get into my head  unless I invite him to. It's a peaceful kind of love with space and I enjoyed that.  I also feel with him that every conversation is genuine.  Nothing is about saying what he thinks will have an affect he wants; he's very earnest in a way a lot of  people aren't.  There's a wonderful side to the avoidant attachment style too from my experience.  Rewarding if you can earn a place in their guarded hearts because it seems they rarely want to let you go once you do.  I also like that his walls took so long to come down, it felt very special when they did.  I also like his vulnerabilities, they make him more human and relatable.

It's complex, right?

I see him more as an overall person, and I;d date an FA again provided they'd want to date me.  DA I think would be harder as I know I have a deep need for affirmation and things like that, but it'd be a case by case thing.  I could not date AP, I know this would not work for me and would make me feel very engulfed.

Now
I need some of that mojo!!

When you have a bit of time juggling work and grandbaby, come give us some lessons in jujitsu!