jenn
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Post by jenn on Jul 2, 2016 12:28:16 GMT
His previous marriage lasted 2 years.. He hadn't had any other long term relationships other than ours and his previous marriages...
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katy
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Post by katy on Jul 2, 2016 13:16:24 GMT
Jenn,
Please remember, generally in life: The past is the prologue. Your boyfriend has a terrible track record for maintaining long-term relationships.
This time, with you, he hasn't suddenly had a revelation about all the changes that he needs to make in his life so that he'll be a wonderful, affectionate partner. He definitely doesn't sound as though he's really trying to change his avoidant habits and become loving and affectionate. Instead, he's continuing the same avoidant dance that he had in his previous relationships.
All of this is very difficult to acknowledge but it certainly doesn't sound as though he's going to suddenly change how he acts. One thought: have you tried to get him to go to relationship counseling to get things back on track? Making that request would certainly bring many things out in the open - does he acknowledge that there are problems, is he concerned that you are unhappy, and is he willing to learn to develop better compromise skills? If he refuses, which I suspect he will, you'll get more information about the possibilities for your future with him.
Best of luck.
Katy
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jenn
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Post by jenn on Jul 3, 2016 13:03:58 GMT
Your boyfriend has no problem with sex when he does it with someone he barely knows, because in this case there is no emotional intimacy, only physical intimacy. You can't make love to someone you don't know, you can only have sex with this person. I think your boyfriend has no problem with sex in itself (even if he has some erectile dysfunction). It's the same thing for cuddling. Some avoidants can't cuddle at all, even with a new partner. But some can do it at first, before becoming more and more uncomfortable with it as the relationship progresses and the level of emotional intimacy increases. I think you can stop paying attention to what this guy tells you. It is very rare that an avoidant is self-aware to the point of saying " sorry, I have a problem with intimacy, something deep inside me prevents me from becoming close to you and it's not your fault at all". Usually, they will come up with an excuse. Like "something is missing". But nothing is missing, and that's why he won't tell you what is missing exactly (though he could certainly invent something). He may not even be aware that this is just an excuse and that the real reason for your relationship issues has nothing to do with you. Be careful not to seek logic where there isn't any. It's tempting to do that with avoidants, thinking that there is no way our avoidant partner will not realize what the real problem is when we confront him with his contradictions. But logic is not their thing, and usually, it just pushes them further away. You seem to care a lot about meeting this guy's needs. Does he care as much about meeting yours? I really doubt so. Can you accept to be in such an unbalanced relationship? |
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jenn
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Post by jenn on Jul 3, 2016 13:10:51 GMT
What is it that he fears with emotional intimacy?
I want to better understand what he fears in hopes of supporting him with his fears....
Do you think he even realizes what his behavior is like and his pattern of relationships?
I did mention this attachment style last fall to him when he all of a sudden started pulling away and focusing on my short comings... We had a real good talk then... I told him if he needed his space and some time alone to just tell me...
I think for now I just need support while I respect and support him...
He isn't disrespectful and does not belittle me.. It's just the sex part of our relationship and physical contact.. Why are they not able to kiss on the lips? He use to do this all the time... Now he will on occasion...
On a good note, we went out last night and he held my hand..... Baby steps towards a little touching....
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jenn
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Post by jenn on Jul 3, 2016 13:12:49 GMT
Your boyfriend has no problem with sex when he does it with someone he barely knows, because in this case there is no emotional intimacy, only physical intimacy. You can't make love to someone you don't know, you can only have sex with this person. I think your boyfriend has no problem with sex in itself (even if he has some erectile dysfunction). It's the same thing for cuddling. Some avoidants can't cuddle at all, even with a new partner. But some can do it at first, before becoming more and more uncomfortable with it as the relationship progresses and the level of emotional intimacy increases. I think you can stop paying attention to what this guy tells you. It is very rare that an avoidant is self-aware to the point of saying " sorry, I have a problem with intimacy, something deep inside me prevents me from becoming close to you and it's not your fault at all". Usually, they will come up with an excuse. Like "something is missing". But nothing is missing, and that's why he won't tell you what is missing exactly (though he could certainly invent something). He may not even be aware that this is just an excuse and that the real reason for your relationship issues has nothing to do with you. Be careful not to seek logic where there isn't any. It's tempting to do that with avoidants, thinking that there is no way our avoidant partner will not realize what the real problem is when we confront him with his contradictions. But logic is not their thing, and usually, it just pushes them further away. You seem to care a lot about meeting this guy's needs. Does he care as much about meeting yours? I really doubt so. Can you accept to be in such an unbalanced relationship? |
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jenn
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Post by jenn on Jul 3, 2016 13:23:44 GMT
I forgot to mention, that he did say to me last fall when we were talking snd when I told him I wanted to be more than his "roommate ", and that sex is part of a relationship... He said he had only had one other emotional relationship , I asked him with who and he said it didn't matter and then I asked him if he needed closure on this he said no... So I know our relationship scares him... He use to say you won't be around in another month so it doesn't matter... He started saying that about 3 months into our relationship, I told him I wasn't going anywhere until he told me he didn't want me around anymore.
So, I think he is use to women who are needy and that don't understand his attachment style to leave or he gets tired of them and moves on...
I want to talk to him again maybe in a month after summer and talk to him about thus style, but I want to be sensitive to his feelings and not put blame on him.. I want to also make sure I include done of my own relationship issues.. I'm coming out of a 25 year marriage where there was no love. I did not love my exhusband and never wanted physical or emotional intimacy.. So now I fall in love for the first time and want to express my love and show my love in a affectionate way.. Although I'm ok with dialing it back.. I would like to have sex with my bf again, but I roll wait for him to make this move.. I will say I was always the one initiating it other than the first two months of our relationship... I do know it's not an important part of a relationship for him, but my point is, it is a part of one..
Thanks for your support and guidance...
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raco
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Post by raco on Jul 4, 2016 16:21:45 GMT
You say "I want to be sensitive to his feelings", "I want to express my love and show my love in a affectionate way". He's not the right person for this. For an avoidant, feelings are a private secret thing, and love or affection are scary. But he may be the right person if you're looking for a roommate. Whatever you decide to do, make sure not to waste years trying to make things work if you keep being disappointed and hurt.
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jenn
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Post by jenn on Jul 5, 2016 12:43:17 GMT
You say "I want to be sensitive to his feelings", "I want to express my love and show my love in a affectionate way". He's not the right person for this. For an avoidant, feelings are a private secret thing, and love or affection are scary. But he may be the right person if you're looking for a roommate. Whatever you decide to do, make sure not to waste years trying to make things work if you keep being disappointed and hurt. |
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jenn
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Post by jenn on Jul 5, 2016 12:43:58 GMT
Why are feelings private and scary for avoidants?
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jenn
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Posts: 21
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Post by jenn on Jul 5, 2016 12:44:56 GMT
You say "I want to be sensitive to his feelings", "I want to express my love and show my love in a affectionate way". He's not the right person for this. For an avoidant, feelings are a private secret thing, and love or affection are scary. But he may be the right person if you're looking for a roommate. Whatever you decide to do, make sure not to waste years trying to make things work if you keep being disappointed and hurt. |
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Post by jo on Jul 5, 2016 13:55:16 GMT
He may not be able to 'feel' emoptions, but he possibly knows that other people do, and why they do (because its mainstream). But he may not know how it feels and why he doesnt feel it - just that he doesnt. It is like teaching someone the social skills at a dinner party - knowing the correct knife to use, but not really feeling that he wants to use it, just that he should do so as to get along in life. His inner world will be very hard to penetrate. It has taken years of patience for my partner to start opening up. When he does, he certainly 'feels' vulnerability and exposure, and that is very scary to him. This makes him 'feel' or perceive that he is being controlled or that he is out of control. In your partners case, he might fear perceived abandonment (some do) and that might explain things a little. Talking in small doses helps. You might hear some stuff that is hard to understand, but you might find some common ground. In the end, you might need to accept what you do have, but also learn to not grieve over what you dont. It is hard, and give and take on both sides is, I think crucial (well it was for us anyway). But, the other contributors above are right, if you are always going to feel dissappointed and hurt (and that's normal!) then it might be better to be a good friend to him. But this is hard too.
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raco
Junior Member
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Post by raco on Jul 5, 2016 18:34:24 GMT
Why are feelings private and scary for avoidants? An avoidant may had a traumatic childhood that made him build a coping mechanism, like repressing feelings and becoming extremely independent, to bury the pain caused by abusive or neglectful caregivers. That's an explanation we often find in the literature about avoidant attachment, but it seems there can be other factors that can explain this attachment style. You can find lots of resources online about this attachment style by searching "avoidant attachment" on a search engine. |
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jenn
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Post by jenn on Jul 5, 2016 20:00:05 GMT
The only way to find out why he is the way he is, is to ask him but I don't want to push him or make him feel uncomfortable... So for now I will sit back and see how things go.. Knowing I will need these questions answered and we will need to address some of these unhealthy behaviors in order for our relationship to grow into something deeper... If this is what we both want...
In you opinion, what is the best way to start this type of conversation with an AD?
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Post by Jaeger on Jul 5, 2016 23:03:58 GMT
The only way to find out why he is the way he is, is to ask him That is quite an assumption, and one that might be made in error. As said before, literature on dismissive-avoidant attachment points toward early childhood for its development. He either may not know/remember, or he might have convinced himself that he only has good memories of the time, also leading to false information. The key point to realize in this particular attachment style is that it's the least likely to engage in self reflection (since in their mind, the fault is with the partner, so why look at themselves?) and that it usually actively resists hearing what others think of their behaviour and/or disagrees with those views be cause they threaten their (artificial) high self esteem. In short, you're quite unlikely to get the answers you're looking for from him, in my humble opinion. |
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katy
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Post by katy on Jul 6, 2016 0:35:04 GMT
Jenn,
I hesitated to respond to your post because I'm sure that you hate me and many of the other people who have posted because you want so much to make your relationship work and many of us are telling you that it's pretty hopeless. Please understand that we've all been where you are now and know how strong the desire is to make everything work out with somebody that you believe that you "love". I'll suggest some other research that you might want to do: Dr. Helen Fisher on Attachment Bonds. Dr. Fisher has done extensive studies on how humans are genetically programmed to latch onto a likely love partner and do everything in our power to make it work. Also, humans are genetically programmed to always keep trying harder and harder to succeed with intermittent reward systems - the push / pull rejection that you're currently involved with is an intermittent reward system.
I've been happily married since 1992 and my husband and I communicate relatively well. If there's something going on that we need to discuss to work out a solution, I just tell him that something is bothering me and that we need to figure out how to make it OK for both of us. I pick a time that's calm when we have a while to talk and I just bring it up - I don't need special strategies to approach him. I tell him what's bothering me and ask for his opinions and feelings. We discuss possible solutions and work out a compromise. Sometimes it takes a few rounds of discussion to get things finally settled, but he's there, we're both discussing what to do, and we're working out a solution that will benefit both of us and our home.
If you read what many people have posted and if you read Jeb's books and his Web site, you'll see that avoidants cannot and will not communicate in an open direct way after they begin to feel threatened and invaded. I think many of us have also learned the hard way that we are not going to undo a genetic proclivity towards avoidant behavior as well as terrible childhood problems. That's why I suggested that you need to suggest going to a relationship counselor. A trained person, actually talking with you and your boyfriend, will have a much better chance to evaluate if you and he can be helped to learn to communicate. Avoidants make normal people feel very anxious and insecure - after two years of push/pull, rejecting behavior, it's very normal that you would feel confused and on edge and not want to upset the apple cart.
None of this is easy, but, as you learn more, you'll be able to decide if you can live with whatever level of relationship your boyfriend can provide or if you need to find somebody who is more approachable and collaborative.
Best wishes,
Katy
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