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Post by strong on Jul 21, 2016 1:11:08 GMT
I know I need to create a better life for myself and neither one of us is thriving in this marriage. I've never felt so lost, sad, lonely and fragile yet even in this state realize that right now, at my weakest I must act courageously. I have become afraid of so much and afraid to take chances.. becoming very stuck. Not being emotionally supported or loved has taken a huge toll. I have to talk myself into getting motivated to do anything. I have had three therapists urge me to divorce, that he will never ever change. That it would be like saying, "today is Thursday instead of Wednesday." That "he has hurt me tremendously." I have tried everything to reach him and naively trying to change him by influencing him or trying to set a good example. Read so many books, been in therapy for all of marriage. I kept hoping against hope he'd change. I finally realize I need to save myself. I have to take care of me. He has to take care of himself. There are no divorces in my family yet even my mother is understanding and supportive of my need to break free and get out of a very dysfunctional relationship. So many friends have asked me what it is going to take for me to see the light? i still love him and he's very charming. I became attached and it's so difficult to make the call. My current therapist gave me a lawyers number when I saw her this week. His whole family is coming soon and I'm anxious about all the hostessing and socializing I'll be doing when I feel like I'm living a lie. We never connect or talk to touch each other. It's only gotten worse over the years. Thanks for for reading this. I know it is a depressing post. Is anybody else on the brink of trying to get the courage to make the call? ***It's been a long, long, road to this point. I keep postponing the inevitable .. with that said am going to try to stop thinking about this until after his family departs and  will make the call after that. |
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Post by makemineamac on Jul 21, 2016 3:18:00 GMT
Hi there:
It sounds like you have been down a road many of us have been down before. Waiting for change that inevitably is not going to happen.
It's been almost 9 months since I finally said 'enough', and I am so happy now I just can't believe it. I still have a friendly relationship with her, but have no interest in anything else!
I have not felt so free, so freaking free, in years. Everyday it blows me away, that I am so very happy now - by myself, and I am no longer having to deal with lack of affection or support or anything else.
I can tell you , you need to do this. You've tried, you have.
My absolutely favourite line regarding this situation is this: This all ends when you say it does.
And it does. You need to make the choice and end this ridiculous cycle. You deserve happiness.
It will be a little tough at first, but then you will realize - like I have - that life is so rich, it's wonderful - its really is.
Tonight I am enjoying the lovely summer evening in my own place, and I feel good about myself, my work, my life. It's true contentment.
Have I mentioned it's awesome?
Make a plan and do it. Start now.
Andrew
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katy
Sticky Post Powers
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Post by katy on Jul 21, 2016 4:03:23 GMT
Avoidants and narcissists seem to morph back and forth on the same continuum. One day they are an avoidant, then they're a narcissist and they continue to move back and forth. There is quite a bit of advice on the Web for woman who are dealing with Narcissistic Abuse. On many Web sites there is lots of discussion about having the courage to leave a narcissist and how to maintain Low Contact or No Contact.
Two of the best Narcissistic Abuse Web sites that I have found:
Melanie Tonia Evans - a woman from Australia who has lots of free resources including blog articles, videos, and free e-books.
Kim Saeed - Let Me Reach - an expert with great blog articles and free e-books.
Your statement that you still love him may be actually your mind deceiving you because of trauma bonds. Patrick Carnes has an excellent book The Betrayal Bond which describes how difficult it is to leave a bad situation. If you buy his book, he has just published a new edition.
Pia Mellody has a book about Love Addiction which describes the very convoluted dynamic between avoidants and people who get dependent on them. She gives lots of information about how to get out of the tangled emotional Web.
Good luck. Once everything is resolved, you will feel so much better than being in your present state of despair.
Best wishes,
Katy
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Post by strong on Jul 21, 2016 5:08:19 GMT
Hi there: It sounds like you have been down a road many of us have been down before. Waiting for change that inevitably is not going to happen. It's been almost 9 months since I finally said 'enough', and I am so happy now I just can't believe it. I still have a friendly relationship with her, but have no interest in anything else! I have not felt so free, so freaking free, in years. Everyday it blows me away, that I am so very happy now - by myself, and I am no longer having to deal with lack of affection or support or anything else. I can tell you , you need to do this. You've tried, you have. My absolutely favourite line regarding this situation is this: This all ends when you say it does. And it does. You need to make the choice and end this ridiculous cycle. You deserve happiness. It will be a little tough at first, but then you will realize - like I have - that life is so rich, it's wonderful - its really is. Tonight I am enjoying the lovely summer evening in my own place, and I feel good about myself, my work, my life. It's true contentment. Have I mentioned it's awesome? Make a plan and do it. Start now. Andrew |
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Post by strong on Jul 21, 2016 5:12:52 GMT
I can't tell you how appreciative I am for your thoughtful, inspiring words.
I'm so happy for you.
You did it!
I know I can do this too.
Thank you Andrew.
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Post by strong on Jul 21, 2016 5:13:43 GMT
Avoidants and narcissists seem to morph back and forth on the same continuum. One day they are an avoidant, then they're a narcissist and they continue to move back and forth. There is quite a bit of advice on the Web for woman who are dealing with Narcissistic Abuse. On many Web sites there is lots of discussion about having the courage to leave a narcissist and how to maintain Low Contact or No Contact.
Two of the best Narcissistic Abuse Web sites that I have found:
Melanie Tonia Evans - a woman from Australia who has lots of free resources including blog articles, videos, and free e-books.
Kim Saeed - Let Me Reach - an expert with great blog articles and free e-books.
Your statement that you still love him may be actually your mind deceiving you because of trauma bonds. Patrick Carnes has an excellent book The Betrayal Bond which describes how difficult it is to leave a bad situation. If you buy his book, he has just published a new edition.
Pia Mellody has a book about Love Addiction which describes the very convoluted dynamic between avoidants and people who get dependent on them. She gives lots of information about how to get out of the tangled emotional Web.
Good luck. Once everything is resolved, you will feel so much better than being in your present state of despair.
Best wishes,
Katy
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Post by strong on Jul 21, 2016 5:20:46 GMT
Katy,
Thank you for your support and resources. I really am grateful for your reaching out
I have the Pia Mellody book," Love Addiction" at my nightstand and have heard of Evans and Carnes. Kim Saeed, I've not heard of so I look forward to checking her out. Thank goodness for authors and this site. I see my part in the dynamic clearly.
Again, thanks for your wise words. Avoidants definitely morph back and forth. It messes with your mind!!
Take good care
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Post by Jo on Jul 21, 2016 6:35:51 GMT
Hi, I've read your posts. My heart feels for you. If you look at my posts, my partner is a high end very self-aware DA with narcissistic traits. We maintain a relationship, but I was where you were at between last year. I was miserable and could barely function. He'ed very nearly brought me to my knees. I made more exit plans than I had fingers and toes. But I didn't have the strength to leave. Then something very serious happened. I found something out, and I very calmly (and lovingly apparantly, although I didn't feel loving) told him that I was leaving. I felt relief, because he'd given me a ticket to get out. What happened next was something that I never expected. A complete u-turn, to the point where I almost didn't recognise him.
Be prepared for this. It might throw you. I'd seen half hearted attempts before but this time my partner was genuine, has put in place adjustments and maintained them. But he is very self aware and journals his thought processes everyday in order to combat them. But his instincts and traits never go away. They are always there and he has to control and keep in check his natural DA behaviours. And I have never forgotten what happened, and it changed me too, because he knows that I will never go back to that time again. I will walk away.
We have finally reached a middle ground - an understanding if you like. Perhaps you might, perhaps you don't want to, and I can't blame you. But as I say, be prepared for a reaction. If it comes, you will then be able to respond to it in an informed way.
Take care
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katy
Sticky Post Powers
Posts: 147
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Post by katy on Jul 21, 2016 22:47:37 GMT
I agree, you need to work with your attorney and counselor to be ready for anything. Your situation can go anywhere from Jo's positive outcome to my divorce where my ex-husband was stalking me and had to be taken to court. From all of the years of marriage counseling, do you have a sense of how he's going to react to the topic of divorce?
A good divorce attorney can help you lay out what a fair divorce settlement should look like. One thing that I had seen in friends getting divorced was that they got really insane about material possession and squandered immense amounts of attorney time fighting over useless items that could be easily replaced. Once I saw a co-worker spend weeks fighting over a grill and she ended up selling it at a garage sale a year or later. When I got divorced, I vowed to always act like a lady. All that I asked for was my clothes and my cats - I let him take everything else that he wanted. In that way, he got many psychological "wins" at very little long-term cost to me.
As scared as you feel, please remember that until you leave, there isn't any space for a good life to come to you.
Best wishes,
Katy
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Post by strong on Jul 21, 2016 23:01:29 GMT
Hi, I've read your posts. My heart feels for you. If you look at my posts, my partner is a high end very self-aware DA with narcissistic traits. We maintain a relationship, but I was where you were at between last year. I was miserable and could barely function. He'ed very nearly brought me to my knees. I made more exit plans than I had fingers and toes. But I didn't have the strength to leave. Then something very serious happened. I found something out, and I very calmly (and lovingly apparantly, although I didn't feel loving) told him that I was leaving. I felt relief, because he'd given me a ticket to get out. What happened next was something that I never expected. A complete u-turn, to the point where I almost didn't recognise him. Be prepared for this. It might throw you. I'd seen half hearted attempts before but this time my partner was genuine, has put in place adjustments and maintained them. But he is very self aware and journals his thought processes everyday in order to combat them. But his instincts and traits never go away. They are always there and he has to control and keep in check his natural DA behaviours. And I have never forgotten what happened, and it changed me too, because he knows that I will never go back to that time again. I will walk away. We have finally reached a middle ground - an understanding if you like. Perhaps you might, perhaps you don't want to, and I can't blame you. But as I say, be prepared for a reaction. If it comes, you will then be able to respond to it in an informed way. Take care |
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Post by strong on Jul 21, 2016 23:09:54 GMT
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me in such a thoughtful way. I haven't read your posts yet, but I will.
Do you have an understanding now that if he were ever to do to you again what you found out, you will leave him. Now that you and he have reached a middle ground, is it much better? I'm really glad for you that you seem to have found some acceptance and peace. Are you happier? Maybe all the answers are in your posts, and I will read them.
I'm just going through the motions until I can gain the courage to call the lawyer. I'm trying to keep my head on straight. Last year at this time I suffered an emotional break when the enormity of the isolation, neglect and emotional and physical abandonment suddenly became very clear and I wasn't able to pretend it was okay.
I wish you all the best in your relationship moving forward. . It Is a rare( but it does happen sometimes), positive shift.
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Post by strong on Jul 21, 2016 23:10:53 GMT
I agree, you need to work with your attorney and counselor to be ready for anything. Your situation can go anywhere from Jo's positive outcome to my divorce where my ex-husband was stalking me and had to be taken to court. From all of the years of marriage counseling, do you have a sense of how he's going to react to the topic of divorce?
A good divorce attorney can help you lay out what a fair divorce settlement should look like. One thing that I had seen in friends getting divorced was that they got really insane about material possession and squandered immense amounts of attorney time fighting over useless items that could be easily replaced. Once I saw a co-worker spend weeks fighting over a grill and she ended up selling it at a garage sale a year or later. When I got divorced, I vowed to always act like a lady. All that I asked for was my clothes and my cats - I let him take everything else that he wanted. In that way, he got many psychological "wins" at very little long-term cost to me.
As scared as you feel, please remember that until you leave, there isn't any space for a good life to come to you.
Best wishes,
Katy
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Post by strong on Jul 21, 2016 23:22:58 GMT
Hi, Katy
Based on how he responds to tiny changes ( he loathes any change, disruption or surprise) I'm sure he'd not take it well. He told our last therapist that he would be "devastated" if I left and told me he'd be angry and sad. I became so emotional last summer that I blurted out that I wanted a divorce and he was very hurt for months. I felt really bad for him.
I wasn't prepared in any way to say that and wish I hadn't. I was in a weakened state.
Like you I always envision being very peaceful and not sweating the small stuff when it comes to possessions if-when I leave. He could stay in the house and even keep our pup who I adore and take care of and I'd want the cats and my clothes and art supplies and paintings and my car. The rest is his.
How do you feel post divorce?
With the stalking it sounds like a nightmare.
I hope you are in a much better space now. I will read your posts so you will not have to repeat yourself.
Take care,
Alexis
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katy
Sticky Post Powers
Posts: 147
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Post by katy on Jul 22, 2016 2:34:20 GMT
I had an idea after reading your posts. Perhaps you could find a Web site or books about all of the issues involved in getting divorced. That way you can begin to work out in your mind want you want and need. I'm sure that you can find checklists so that you'll know what decisions will need to be made. I think it becomes less frightening when you have a sense of the issues that you'll be facing.
For two years, I was miserable being married to my ex-husband. I got divorced and about six months later I met the man that I've known for 29 years and have been married to for 24 years. I wouldn't have even met him if I hadn't gotten divorced. Getting divorced isn't fun, but in the long run, it's much better than to continue to live in misery.
Good luck.
Katy |
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Post by Jo on Jul 22, 2016 8:24:09 GMT
Hi, in answer to your questions, yes we have an understanding of our boundaries and bottom lines. I too have had to take a look at myself to try to understand how we got to such a terrible place. He takes full blame for what happened, and to some extent he is right, but I have had to accept that in some form I'd had a role to play.
We both share some secure traits and we have used those a lot more recently. But we are also very different in some ways, although we also share some insecurities that manifest themselves in different ways. We are a bit like two circles that overlap in part. That is our common ground, our common understanding if you like. We wrote a list of the things that we appreciate about each other, and why we should be together, and there were a good number of similarities on each list. What I have found is that somehow, we have managed to increase that overlap. But it has taken years of hardwork, tolerance, acceptance and compromise on both sides. We compromise on an almost daily basis and we have each had to respect our own and each other's needs, but also what we don't need. We both have ways of helping ourselves - for example I have a very good circle of friends, and he has healthy hobbies that give him headspace and alone time.
All this is hard work, and at times has been exhausting. We have hurt one another - your posting about your husbands hurt reminded me of something. But yes, I am happier to be with him than without, and he would rather be with me than without. But as a true DA, he would never use the word 'happier'. We have grown through one another, not just in attachment terms, but also in other areas, as we both have very supportive natures.
I hope that you are able to get to the place that you would like to be. I have been where you are, many times. Keep in touch with us all if you can,
Take care, Jo
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will make the call after that. 
