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Post by ruggedlygentle on Mar 12, 2018 3:54:21 GMT
I was in a relationship for a year with a DA. Knew that she was a DA while we were dating (at least toward the end) as we took various attachment tests together. I was in the secure box, but on the slightly less avoidant and more anxious side.
I did not know how much our interaction and closeness overwhelmed her. The rollercoaster feel was definitely evident as the day before we broke up, we had a magical time together.
In any case, she asked that we take a break for a month because she just felt overwhelmed. I asked if that was different than a break-up and she said "I guess not, maybe we should just break-up". And I said "OK". And we broke-up. We both cried for a bit and talked for a couple of hours. Two days later, she came by to grab some things; she ended up staying over and we slept together. She stayed the night and commented that she felt bad that we broke-up, but it was the right thing. She still kept a few things at my place (more on this later).
We had very limited contact for a couple of weeks, and then I reached out (after reading all of these posts, I now know in hindsight that it was a mistake). I told her that I was thinking of a fun time we had and missed her.
She did not respond for a couple of days then asked if I wanted to get lunch, which I said that I'd love to (probably too eager). She cancelled 30 minutes before our lunch. A couple of more days go by and she asks if she can pick-up the rest of her things, I said sure. When she came, she was visibly frazzled (almost scared) - she got in and out in less than 2 minutes without any dialogue with me.
I stupidly sent her another text a couple of days later saying I was thinking of her. She waited a couple of days and asked me to lunch again -- and again she canceled 45 minutes before our lunch. She then sent a text saying that on reflection, lunch is not a good idea and that the messages I sent her were too intimate for us to be friends. And if there is any possibility for us to be friends, we should not communicate for a few weeks. She then said to make that more concrete, she was going to block my number and that I can reach out in a few weeks to schedule a call with her. This is about a month after we broke up.
Whoa.
So I said okay, if that is what she thinks is best.
Two weeks later, she sent an email asking me a question about which dry cleaning I would go to (so she can get something done there) and said "hope all is well". I responded in a few hours and told her the name of the place and said "hope all is well with you too". Do you think her reaching out was genuinely b/c of the dry cleaning place or b/c she felt guilty about her last message (which was dismissive in the way she asked me to email her after a few weeks after saying she was blocking my number).
With all of this in mind, my feeling is that while she still cares about me, I should just continue to go no contact until she initiates. If she does not initiate, perhaps I can send her a light email in a month that says "Hey, how are you doing? Hope all is well".
Things seemed to break-up so suddenly and I know from reading these forums that the best thing I can do is just back-off and work on myself. Which I have been doing, but a big part of my mind is still fixated on her and getting another perspective is helpful.
Thank you
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 4:21:47 GMT
i don't think you can narrow down her motivation between "about the dry cleaning" or "guilty".
there are many other possibilities, and only she can clarify it for yoiZ
as a DA myself- i admit i sometimes have a hard time with endings.
even if i know that the relationship needs to end.
it's impossible to get inside her head, without asking her.
i've reached out with a stupid excuse after a breakup just to see if i would get a response, if i was hated, or if i was responded to in a friendly way. it was about my own issues but didn't mean i could do the relationship. it was confused messy breakup crap.
sorry that's not too helpful. i would caution you about letting her dictate everything.
She set some hard boundaries with you about contact and then casually asked some dry cleaning advice. after a breakup. it's not very nice. it's a little gamey. flakey. i am just saying. i've done it.
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Post by ruggedlygentle on Mar 12, 2018 4:32:19 GMT
Thanks, muppet - you are right, she is dictating the terms. Next time should I just not respond? Or how do I change the dynamics?
A part of me feels like she just needs to feel "safe", so that means no indication from my end on any desire to enter a relationship (e.g., do not initiate contact, do not signal in any way that I miss her or desire her). It's a bit unfair to allow her to dictate the terms, but I'm not sure what else to do. If I protest, that will push her away; if I become non-responsive, that might validate her feelings that I'm unsafe. Thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 4:46:36 GMT
Thanks, muppet - you are right, she is dictating the terms. Next time should I just not respond? Or how do I change the dynamics? A part of me feels like she just needs to feel "safe", so that means no indication from my end on any desire to enter a relationship (e.g., do not initiate contact, do not signal in any way that I miss her or desire her). It's a bit unfair to allow her to dictate the terms, but I'm not sure what else to do. If I protest, that will push her away; if I become non-responsive, that might validate her feelings that I'm unsafe. Thoughts? my thoughts are, she broke up with you. to end the relationship. she initiated no contact to delineate "friendship" from relationship. thats great and normal. breakups are messy and no contact is a great way to change the patterns. but only an anxious or insecure person would allow another person to dictate the terms of any relationship. i draw the conclusion that allowing her to dictate how you interact with her means, you are willing to impinge yourself to have some kind of relationship with her, no matter how frustrating or unfair. so it really does come back to working on yourself. i am not bashing anxiety or insecurity. but another response to her behavior would be: "hey. you broke up with me. it was painful. you blocked me and told me i could email in a few weeks to arrange a call. then you emailed me for dry cleaning advice. This seems inappropriate and insensitive to my feelings. If we are going to be in contact it will be on mutually agreed terms. Breakups are difficult. if you need dry cleaning advice, don't ask the ex you blocked. If you would like to talk further, i'm open but we will have to agree on how that happens. Hope things are well for you. " anything that isn't mutual and meeting the needs of both parties is not gonna work, for friendship, relationships, no kind of relationship. don't be a passenger. |
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Post by ruggedlygentle on Mar 12, 2018 5:07:14 GMT
Thanks muppet - you are totally right. In her email she said she needed to go to the same one bc they know what to do with her trench coat and she needed it done this week. So her email was sort of suggesting “i don’t want to reach out, but kind of need this info”. So i gave a very short, but polite reply. In the end, I don’t want to feel bad or guilty about us.
I hear you though - I plan on continuing no contact and in the event she reaches out, to just be nonchalant.
I suppose what I am saying is that I don’t need to be direct about what I will accept in a relationship, but rather simply behave in the way that indicates it (unless push comes to shove).
Escalating things is what got me here (she will just distance herself), and I rather not give her the excuse of it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 5:13:28 GMT
i agree, that by our actions we can let people know what we accept.
actually, actions speak louder than words sometimes but i am just a plain spoken person and it's my go to for the most part.
but i understand this is painful and just wanted to encourage you to take good care of yourself and not just consider what she seems to need.
your needs matter. it's not all about her. that's all i'm saying.
i hope your healing goes well, breakups are difficult especially before acceptance. it can take a long time and lots of ups and downs to get there.
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Post by ruggedlygentle on Mar 12, 2018 6:11:51 GMT
Thanks muppet - you're the best
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Post by kelvain on Mar 12, 2018 18:48:37 GMT
If an ex reaches out to you it means they either want you to ask them for a get together, or just to see if you are still hooked onto the fishing line. In your case I would have responded to her with something along the lines of, "Hey. Great to hear from you. The dry cleaner is XXX located at XXX. Anyways, we should catch up. Are you free Friday night around 8 to meet for a drink over at XYZ PLACE?"
If she answered with anything other than being interested in getting together, I would then respond with, "No problem sweetie. If you change your mind, give me a call". I would then leave it at that and not contact her further. She will reach out eventually. The secret of No Contact is that it creates anxiety in your ex. And that anxiety leads to elevating her interest in you. They begin to miss you and wonder about you. It also allows the opportunity for negatives to be forgotten and replaced by positive memories...a natural function of the human brain. That's why they say people look back fondly on memories through rose-colored glasses.
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Post by ruggedlygentle on Mar 12, 2018 19:38:42 GMT
Thanks, Kelvain. Is that true even if she initiated no contact, blocked my number, and cancelled the last two times we were supposed to get together within 45 minutes of actually meeting up?
My point is: at this point it is hard to even contemplate asking her out for a drink without much greater investment in an outreach.
My hypothesis is that she felt unsafe in the last two times she cancelled and genuinely needs space and time. And to rebuild the trust that I am safe again, it makes sense to go slow. For example, we can start by texting (which would require her unblocking me), then we can text for a little, then perhaps a phone call, then perhaps a meetup. But it needs to be a build that grows gradually over time.
What do you think?
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Post by kelvain on Mar 12, 2018 20:05:24 GMT
Thanks, Kelvain. Is that true even if she initiated no contact, blocked my number, and cancelled the last two times we were supposed to get together within 45 minutes of actually meeting up? My point is: at this point it is hard to even contemplate asking her out for a drink without much greater investment in an outreach. My hypothesis is that she felt unsafe in the last two times she cancelled and genuinely needs space and time. And to rebuild the trust that I am safe again, it makes sense to go slow. For example, we can start by texting (which would require her unblocking me), then we can text for a little, then perhaps a phone call, then perhaps a meetup. But it needs to be a build that grows gradually over time. What do you think? No. I disagree with texting to build up to anything. All prolonged texting does is kill your chances for a meet in person. Also, DO NOT TEXT HER FIRST!!! Let her contact you. It's ok that you answered the first inquiry the way you did. But when the next one comes, make sure you take the opportunity to ask her to meet up in person. Just don't respond too quickly. Answer her back in like an hour or more. When a girl initiates no contact and blocks you from FB it doesn't mean much anything since she reached out with a direct-indirect approach, (asking about the dry cleaner). This revealed that she still has interest and is thinking about you. Take a look at this and get back to me: www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1S9dYreG10 |
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Post by ruggedlygentle on Mar 12, 2018 20:33:16 GMT
Thanks, Kelvain. I have watched the AskCraig videos and am familiar with his experience and advice. I agree and subscribe with the vast majority of it. What I have observed is that avoidants want to feel safe, go very slowly, and do not respond well when you attempt to take more than what is given. This is why I do not agree with Craig that one should escalate to a drink when someone has indirectly reached out by email when your number has been blocked, especially by an avoidant. Instead, if I hope for reconciliation, showing restraint, going slow and frankly being hard to get (ie, the opposite of an AP), the better the chances. Escalating to a drink simply ignites an avoidants deactivation strategies, especially if they already told you to not even contact them. I have read clinical studies, articles by therapists, and books on avoidants. But the one that resonated with me on how to treat an avoidant is this blog: medium.com/@krisgage/how-to-get-love-from-someone-whos-guarded-or-won-t-open-up-e2ed6bcbc652Obviously, I don’t know much because I am the one seeking advice, but I also try to carefully consider each piece of advice and assess the merits of it. And it turns out that AskCraig is usually very good, but every case is different and may require some adjustment. Whats your take? |
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Post by kelvain on Mar 12, 2018 21:13:27 GMT
I've dated a DA for 10 years. It was a constant on and off relationship for...10 years. I've been through the grinder for this girl. In the end, she left me because I gave her too much space. She said I had abandoned her. I was purposely backing away while she was stressed so that I wouldn't smother her and further anger her for being needy/clingy (I was reprimanded for neediness all too often). Unfortunately she had a habit of creating no-win situations for me. This was one of them.
All I could say is I do agree with much of the article. But in reading it once again (I read this in the past) it brought back the memories of the ever-exhausting dance I had to perform just to keep in her good graces.
I'm past all that now. I've moved on.
I can only recommend that you do what you think is best. You sound like an intelligent person and already have a feel for what is needed. I'm sure you will handle the situation appropriately in context of what works best with your ex. I wish I had more insight to share. Hopefully other will.
Hoping for your success!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 21:19:20 GMT
ruggedlygentle, If she is DA (not FA), she doesn't have much anxiety, so creating an elevated interest by no contact is a losing battle in my opinion. DAs have a different mindset. Also (I know many will disagree with me), but whoever reaches out first doesn't change the dynamic of a relationship. If you do get back together, the dynamic will be the same, no matter who reached out to who. Just my opinion.
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Post by kelvain on Mar 12, 2018 21:23:53 GMT
ruggedlygentle , If she is DA (not FA), she doesn't have much anxiety, so creating an elevated interest by no contact is a losing battle in my opinion. DAs have a different mindset. Also (I know many will disagree with me), but whoever reaches out first doesn't change the dynamic of a relationship. If you do get back together, the dynamic will be the same, no matter who reached out to who. Just my opinion. Thank you Mary. This is true. I actually remember always being patient and having to coax my ex DA back by reassuring her. I was the one to reach out first with messages of kindness. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 21:32:48 GMT
ruggedlygentle , If she is DA (not FA), she doesn't have much anxiety, so creating an elevated interest by no contact is a losing battle in my opinion. DAs have a different mindset. Also (I know many will disagree with me), but whoever reaches out first doesn't change the dynamic of a relationship. If you do get back together, the dynamic will be the same, no matter who reached out to who. Just my opinion. i concur, and would go further tonsay that when i began commenting i misunderstood the intent and took your statement about working on yourself (i assumed, my bad, that you meant examining your own issues or ways of relating that contribute to a dysfunctional dynamic) . that's why i mentioned considering your own needs instead of caving to hers. truthfully, it seems that the thread turned to manipulative tactics to continue the push pull dynamic, where you strategically interact in order to influence a response that you prefer in the interest of potential reconciliation? is no contact in this scenario a protest behavior? i understood no contact differently. i see this as a continuation of a rubber band dynamic. And i don't fault it, it's really the norm for insecurely attached individuals. i am i interested to see how it plays out! |
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