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Post by tnr9 on Mar 14, 2018 0:47:31 GMT
I am an encourager..so when I actually talk to "B", I am always bringing up something positive that I see in him....last weekend I told him that I was impressed by all that he is doing to improve his life such as working out and he pointed out that he has not worked out in the last few weeks and that he isn't the weight he wants to be. The whole tone of the conversation was him pointing out areas where he was still struggling or disappomintments that he had in himself. As much as I tried to counter these, I think my desire to encourage him ended up not being received in the manner I intended. I know that there have been times that I have tried to say something positive to him and he has become angry as if it was an obligation/ or that I was telling him how to see himself (and knowing his past, his reaction makes sense). My point has never been to try to change his view of himself but to provide an invitation for him to see himself through the eyes of someone who cares about him and has a different perspective. Does anyone have a suggestion of how I can convey that message better? Thank you in advance.
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Post by devastated on Mar 15, 2018 11:16:43 GMT
I am an encourager..so when I actually talk to "B", I am always bringing up something positive that I see in him....last weekend I told him that I was impressed by all that he is doing to improve his life such as working out and he pointed out that he has not worked out in the last few weeks and that he isn't the weight he wants to be. The whole tone of the conversation was him pointing out areas where he was still struggling or disappomintments that he had in himself. As much as I tried to counter these, I think my desire to encourage him ended up not being received in the manner I intended. I know that there have been times that I have tried to say something positive to him and he has become angry as if it was an obligation/ or that I was telling him how to see himself (and knowing his past, his reaction makes sense). My point has never been to try to change his view of himself but to provide an invitation for him to see himself through the eyes of someone who cares about him and has a different perspective. Does anyone have a suggestion of how I can convey that message better? Thank you in advance. I think it’s very difficult for b to see himself in a positive light. Maybe go about things in a roundabout way. As I said in the other thread. I tried to make him believe he was a great person also. But it just pushes him away. Baby steps! Sorry not much help. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 15, 2018 13:04:24 GMT
I am an encourager..so when I actually talk to "B", I am always bringing up something positive that I see in him....last weekend I told him that I was impressed by all that he is doing to improve his life such as working out and he pointed out that he has not worked out in the last few weeks and that he isn't the weight he wants to be. The whole tone of the conversation was him pointing out areas where he was still struggling or disappomintments that he had in himself. As much as I tried to counter these, I think my desire to encourage him ended up not being received in the manner I intended. I know that there have been times that I have tried to say something positive to him and he has become angry as if it was an obligation/ or that I was telling him how to see himself (and knowing his past, his reaction makes sense). My point has never been to try to change his view of himself but to provide an invitation for him to see himself through the eyes of someone who cares about him and has a different perspective. Does anyone have a suggestion of how I can convey that message better? Thank you in advance. I think it’s very difficult for b to see himself in a positive light. Maybe go about things in a roundabout way. As I said in the other thread. I tried to make him believe he was a great person also. But it just pushes him away. Baby steps! Sorry not much help. Thank you for replying Devastated....it is very tough to convey positive feelings to anyone with a low self image....and B actually has a condition that complicates matters a bit. So what I have decided to do....since I am an encourager...is to not speak to B this weekend about anything. After last weekend, I think it is best to just let what I said marinade in him. I keep forgetting that because they are my thoughts, that I don't need time to process them...whereas....I think B does. I also am trying to devise a plan to make them feel more realistic...meaning...find something very tangible and in the present that I can compliment him on instead of simply saying something generic. I have read before that men like specific compliments that tie back to something concrete. Still working on that. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 15:12:27 GMT
I am an encourager..so when I actually talk to "B", I am always bringing up something positive that I see in him....last weekend I told him that I was impressed by all that he is doing to improve his life such as working out and he pointed out that he has not worked out in the last few weeks and that he isn't the weight he wants to be. The whole tone of the conversation was him pointing out areas where he was still struggling or disappomintments that he had in himself. As much as I tried to counter these, I think my desire to encourage him ended up not being received in the manner I intended. I know that there have been times that I have tried to say something positive to him and he has become angry as if it was an obligation/ or that I was telling him how to see himself (and knowing his past, his reaction makes sense). My point has never been to try to change his view of himself but to provide an invitation for him to see himself through the eyes of someone who cares about him and has a different perspective. Does anyone have a suggestion of how I can convey that message better? Thank you in advance. This is very difficult. I am not sure I have any specific advice. I had this issue with my bf as every time I would say something positive to him, he would lash out at me or say something negative about himself. Slowly, I began to say less positive things and not compliment him. But then something would slip out and he would lash out at me. I finally told him straight out that I didn't like when he said negative things about himself when I said something positive. That I only say things to him because I mean them and I feel like he doesn't "believe" what I say. He is working on just saying thank you or being silent and taking it in. It's not easy. I guess my suggestion would be just to say it directly what is bothering you. |
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Post by Jaeger on Mar 15, 2018 15:57:44 GMT
In short, and this is coming from my profession as a trainer in communication skills, you're in a sense 'creating' resistance by trying to convince someone of what the truth is. Convincing someone doesn't work a lot of the time, and when it does, it's a short-term effect. There is also an element of appraising or judging that people can get irritated by as you say has happened before in your contact with this person.
If you want more lasting change, a proven method would be the motivational interview, but this starts with the need to accept that people are entitled to feel and think as they do, no matter how false it may seem to you. Perception is truth, after all. And in the end, only he can choose what to act on and what not to. Accepting that might help you release the 'saviour' role, too.
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Post by ocarina on Mar 15, 2018 16:03:31 GMT
I am an encourager..so when I actually talk to "B", I am always bringing up something positive that I see in him....last weekend I told him that I was impressed by all that he is doing to improve his life such as working out and he pointed out that he has not worked out in the last few weeks and that he isn't the weight he wants to be. The whole tone of the conversation was him pointing out areas where he was still struggling or disappomintments that he had in himself. As much as I tried to counter these, I think my desire to encourage him ended up not being received in the manner I intended. I know that there have been times that I have tried to say something positive to him and he has become angry as if it was an obligation/ or that I was telling him how to see himself (and knowing his past, his reaction makes sense). My point has never been to try to change his view of himself but to provide an invitation for him to see himself through the eyes of someone who cares about him and has a different perspective. Does anyone have a suggestion of how I can convey that message better? Thank you in advance. I would suggest this is his issue not yours and that trying to accomodate his negativity by changing your expression of feelings is enabling him in this - and is a reflection of your trying to please him, fit in with him. Sometimes constant encouragement can seem like pressure - and can also seem, especially to someone with low self esteem, like pressure to reciprocate or to change. If you genuinely mean these things with no pressure on an outcome ie you're expressing your own pure thoughts then that's wonderful - it might be worth a little self examination, noticing if there's just a little bit of trying to please him here, trying to show yourself in a good light, in the nicest possible way, some veiled attempt at control. If there isn't, then go ahead and recognise it as his issue and don't compromise your integrity - if there's any hint of control or of wanting an outcome on your side, perhaps this is the behaviour to look at.....Communication isn't about pleasing him - it's about being yourself with integrity and with no weight placed on the outcome. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 15, 2018 16:23:15 GMT
In short, and this is coming from my profession as a trainer in communication skills, you're in a sense 'creating' resistance by trying to convince someone of what the truth is. Convincing someone doesn't work a lot of the time, and when it does, it's a short-term effect. There is also an element of appraising or judging that people can get irritated by as you say has happened before in your contact with this person. If you want more lasting change, a proven method would be the motivational interview, but this starts with the need to accept that people are entitled to feel and think as they do, no matter how false it may seem to you. Perception is truth, after all. And in the end, only he can choose what to act on and what not to. Accepting that might help you release the 'saviour' role, too. Truthfully Jaeger...I am not trying to play the savior role....I do actually see him differently then he sees himself. Yes, he is completely allowed to have whatever opinion he has of himself...and he doesn't have to ascribe at all to how I see him. My main goal was to invite him to see himself the way I do....but it is in his hands what he does with it. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 15, 2018 16:34:21 GMT
I am an encourager..so when I actually talk to "B", I am always bringing up something positive that I see in him....last weekend I told him that I was impressed by all that he is doing to improve his life such as working out and he pointed out that he has not worked out in the last few weeks and that he isn't the weight he wants to be. The whole tone of the conversation was him pointing out areas where he was still struggling or disappomintments that he had in himself. As much as I tried to counter these, I think my desire to encourage him ended up not being received in the manner I intended. I know that there have been times that I have tried to say something positive to him and he has become angry as if it was an obligation/ or that I was telling him how to see himself (and knowing his past, his reaction makes sense). My point has never been to try to change his view of himself but to provide an invitation for him to see himself through the eyes of someone who cares about him and has a different perspective. Does anyone have a suggestion of how I can convey that message better? Thank you in advance. I would suggest this is his issue not yours and that trying to accomodate his negativity by changing your expression of feelings is enabling him in this - and is a reflection of your trying to please him, fit in with him. Sometimes constant encouragement can seem like pressure - and can also seem, especially to someone with low self esteem, like pressure to reciprocate or to change. If you genuinely mean these things with no pressure on an outcome ie you're expressing your own pure thoughts then that's wonderful - it might be worth a little self examination, noticing if there's just a little bit of trying to please him here, trying to show yourself in a good light, in the nicest possible way, some veiled attempt at control. If there isn't, then go ahead and recognise it as his issue and don't compromise your integrity - if there's any hint of control or of wanting an outcome on your side, perhaps this is the behaviour to look at.....Communication isn't about pleasing him - it's about being yourself with integrity and with no weight placed on the outcome. In the moment, I would say that I was simply trying to be a good friend....howver, it would be a lie to say that nowhere is there an ounce of my desire for him and I to get back together....I wrestle with that reality every single day. Pressure is something that has reared it's ugly head before and I will own that I am a very passionate person so "pulling back" "toning down" is not something I do well. I tend also not to be very good at timing things....which feeds also into pressure. The last thing I ever wanted to do was/is pressure him....but I am a bit of an all in individual....whereas he tends to much more chill on the surface. And the thought that I am doing this "wrong" is always in the back of my mind and then I end up just feeling incredibly sad because pressure, obligation, control are things I never want him to feel but it seems my personality just oozes it. |
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Post by ocarina on Mar 15, 2018 19:34:57 GMT
I think that what people want more than anything is to be heard - to be really seen.
Having spent some time with an organisation who provide listening and support in times of extreme crisis -we were taught to really listen, that positive or negative input was a form of judgement and made the subject feel unheard and unsupported even when the input was positive, the kind of emotional support that really works is listening with empathy to the reality of the other person - which allows their reality to be heard. It doesn't mean you need to agree with their picture of the world, but as Jaeger intimated, we each have our own reality and excessive praising to someone who doesn't feel worthy, may feel manipulative and in some ways may serve to negate feelings of understanding and empathy.
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 15, 2018 20:46:01 GMT
I think that what people want more than anything is to be heard - to be really seen. Having spent some time with an organisation who provide listening and support in times of extreme crisis -we were taught to really listen, that positive or negative input was a form of judgement and made the subject feel unheard and unsupported even when the input was positive, the kind of emotional support that really works is listening with empathy to the reality of the other person - which allows their reality to be heard. It doesn't mean you need to agree with their picture of the world, but as Jaeger intimated, we each have our own reality and excessive praising to someone who doesn't feel worthy, may feel manipulative and in some ways may serve to negate feelings of understanding and empathy. That is a very good point..and as a result of some additional information he provided to me from last Sunday...I plan to change my approach. I definately want to hear and see him for who he is and have him know that that is my goal. I am grateful for such good and honest feedback. |
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