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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 14:53:19 GMT
I was reading an article this morning about cognitive dissonance and how we use it in dysfunctional relationships. I see it as a fundamental part of enabling poor and even abusive behavior , and i think but am not sure that anxiously attached and avoidantly attached may minimize the impact of abusive behaviors in different ways but the end result is the same- ultimately a crisis that forces change in our behavior to escape. For me, as an avoidant, i have in the past been able to endure very serious abuse by distancing. For example, i was in a very abusive relationship in which i was logistically dependent. I hated the abuse but was very stoic and did not internalize it, i wasn't emotionally hurt in terms of wanting the abuser to love me and apologize. Instead, i endure it and hated him and rebelled against it, even defied it. I knew that i had no way logistically to escape so my focus was on changing that, and i was able to remove myself emotionally so that it had little impact on me other than when it was actively happening and i contained my rage to avoid more dangerous abuses So, i told myself i could handle it (and i did) until i was able to remove myself. The physiological toll was severe and i developed severe PTSD. eventually i did make it out. I didn't tell people around me that i was being abused while it was happening and waited until i was free and clear of it and could explain that i was ok. The reason that i didn't tell people is that i knew they would not understand my capacity to endure it and would expect me to leave and i figured i couldn't because of logistics. so i had to do all kinds of adjusting to cope with what was intolerable and dangerous. Another way to deal with that, from what i read, is to believe the abuser loves me, and that he didn't mean it, and that he said he was sorry and would stop so if i just do this and that i can help him not do it again. I can't relate to that approach at all, as i never expected him to stop and rather than minimize the abuse i just maximized myself to handle it. So, there are different ways to cope. I feel that i came out of that relatively unscathed and once i overcame physiological effects of PTSD, i take no meds and have no flashbacks and don't feel afraid or nervous trusting. I guess because i trust myself and i have not encountered abuse again. So. The point is, i think it is very important to be aware of cognitive dissonance, and how we use it to survive and maintain deteriorating situations. Until the internal and external crisis becomes too much and we are forced out of denial, forced to act to protect ourselves. I think it can be very confusing, and we can sometimes only understand what we are doing, over time. Cognitive dissonance is also used in healthy relationships to overlook mistakes and faults of a good partner and focus on the genuine good. This is healthy when the relationship truly serves the well being of both partners. It can be confusing to know if we are overlooking bad for a good reason, or a bad reason. Questions to ask are, over time, do the same issues present, requiring more and more adjustment to compensate? Or do problems get resolved, and not repeated as a pattern? Over time, do i feel more isolated or more connected to my partner and to my friends? Over time, does my physical health improve or decline? Over time, am i busier and busier or am i able to sit peacefully with myself? Am i anxious, depressed, and angry or peaceful, happy, and content? There are ways to evaluate wether we are investing our efforts into something that builds us up or destroys us. So i think , even for me being in a situation where i face challenges occasionally but feel peaceful, it's good to remain alert and aware to what is going on inside of me to stay connected to reality. That's because i have had a tremendous capacity for endurance before i was connected to myself, and i never want to go back there. love myself a lot now and i don't treat myself badly, and i don't have abuse in my life. I know what it feels like, to actually feel good. I hope this is helpful to anyone struggling with a relationship that hurts and i would love feedback so we can all work at getting and staying good to ourselves. I think i will be working on that the rest of my life but the benefits so far are already such a blessing. Thanks for reading! Here is one article, there are lots available. www.everydayhealth.com/neurology/cognitive-dissonance/how-cognitive-dissonance-affects-your-relationships/ |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 15:00:35 GMT
This explains so much for me. I thought it was because I was so insensitive to outside forces that the abuse did not effect me and that's why I didn't see it. But reading up on this, I realize I minimized the behavior and I think other styles do this as well (maybe the process is different, because they are sensitive to outside forces). I googled and I really like this article about it: somekindofclever.com/2014/10/24/love-and-cognitive-dissonance-theory/Thank you for posting this. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 15:10:55 GMT
This explains so much for me. I thought it was because I was so insensitive to outside forces that the abuse did not effect me and that's why I didn't see it. But reading up on this, I realize I minimized the behavior and I think other styles do this as well (maybe the process is different, because they are sensitive to outside forces). I googled and I really like this article about it: somekindofclever.com/2014/10/24/love-and-cognitive-dissonance-theory/Thank you for posting this. i'm glad it helps, and it's something i want to be vigilant about, because i am still growing and so unfamiliar with intimacy and relationships. i am highly sensitive these days to when i feel bad. it's not the normal state for me any more. a huge part of healing was being able to register and recognize and feel love toward myself when i had pain. Instead of deleting it. i never want to get lulled back to sleep!! Nightmares happen if i am not awake to myself!!! |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 22, 2018 16:18:37 GMT
I experienced this with the Narcissist I dated...it got to the point where I had to ignore all the kind words and look at his actions instead...and his actions were always telling me that I did not matter.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 16:37:37 GMT
Mine was really messed up, because some words and actions said I mattered a lot and some words and actions said I didn't...so confusing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 16:46:20 GMT
I experienced this with the Narcissist I dated...it got to the point where I had to ignore all the kind words and look at his actions instead...and his actions were always telling me that I did not matter. when actions don't match words, i always go by actions! words are.... words. nothing more! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 17:01:30 GMT
Mine was really messed up, because some words and actions said I mattered a lot and some words and actions said I didn't...so confusing. so i think the really important thing is to really notice when we feel uncomfortable, and then pay really close attention to the thoughts and decisions and behaviors of our own that we may use to justify, minimize, and tolerate things that aren't good for us. It can be very difficult to navigate and i think it takes constant awareness and practice. And sometimes you can't correct your course immediately but over time of you just notice it, your choices and direction can become conscious and aware and empowered , instead of habitually capitulating to destructive situations. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 17:50:53 GMT
This explains so much for me. I thought it was because I was so insensitive to outside forces that the abuse did not effect me and that's why I didn't see it. But reading up on this, I realize I minimized the behavior and I think other styles do this as well (maybe the process is different, because they are sensitive to outside forces). I googled and I really like this article about it: somekindofclever.com/2014/10/24/love-and-cognitive-dissonance-theory/Thank you for posting this. . mary that is an excellent article! over time i have learned to respond to dissonance in a better way, but it took a long time to trust my decisions and outcomes. i agree- a good relationship should cause minimal dissonance. the relationships that i have outside of my intimate relationship provide no dissonance at all it seems- i can't remember any internal conflict if there has been. they are all chosen relationships developed in my recovery. i have jettisoned unhealthy associations from the past. So, they have given me an experience of camaraderie and safety and well-being in emotional intimacy. I actively use that as a standard for relationships. It's not always clear cut for me however, because intimate romantic relationships hit closer to home with triggers, patterns, etc for me. So again, it's about ongoing awareness to what's going on inside of me- what's going on outside of me can be confusing and disorienting because of my perceptions. It's all about practice ,for me. |
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Post by BreakingTheSpell on Mar 22, 2018 17:58:47 GMT
It is easy to recognize abuse when the partner is more at the end of the spectrum... say a full blown narcissist for example.
But those who are not so messed up, a "mild" DA, AP or FA, it gets tricky to recognize the abuse.
I may be able to recognize some abusive behavior coming from DAs or FAs, with the dismissiveness or manipulations. What I cannot really recognize are abusive behaviors from APs. It seems like APs "only" want to be loved and reassured A LOT, but doesnt look abusive to me, just needy. (Again I wont include severe cases, as overly jealous or controlling). What is a typical AP abusive behavior from the point of view of an avoidant partner? Not giving enough space is abusive?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 18:10:55 GMT
It is easy to recognize abuse when the partner is more at the end of the spectrum... say a full blown narcissist for example. But those who are not so messed up, a "mild" DA, AP or FA, it gets tricky to recognize the abuse. I may be able to recognize some abusive behavior coming from DAs or FAs, with the dismissiveness or manipulations. What I cannot really recognize are abusive behaviors from APs. It seems like APs "only" want to be loved and reassured A LOT, but doesnt look abusive to me, just needy. (Again I wont include severe cases, as overly jealous or controlling). What is a typical AP abusive behavior from the point of view of an avoidant partner? Not giving enough space is abusive? here is an interesting article that kind of addresses that. I have experienced emotional abuse from an AP partner related to jealousy of my attention and time. accusations, demeaning language, minimizing my feelings, questioning my honesty, character assasination , etc. it can be subtle or overt. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380380/#!po=25.7009 |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 18:15:08 GMT
i also have experienced extreme violence from an anxious partner due to their fear of losing me , (the trigger) but i agree with you , that stuff is easy to recognize.
But anxious behavior can be quite controlling and emotionally abusive just like avoidant behaviorS
it's all on a spectrum and depends on how the individual acts out of their insecurity.
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Post by ocarina on Mar 22, 2018 19:34:30 GMT
In the early days of a relationship we often have an idealised view of a partner - perhaps feeling we have met the one, indulging in the Disney fairtale high of hormones and emotions, dreaming down the road of happy ever after.
Of course this bubble inevitably bursts and after this time there seems to be a tendency for cognitive dissonance to kick in.
The benefit of living in the moment without judgement is that we see behaviours for what they are and can make decisions and set boundaries based on actual events rather than what we hope will happen.
There are lots of stories here of people who seem totally rational and sane accepting behaviour which to an outsider seems totally unacceptable - overtly so - ie cheating, verbally abusive, rude, aggressive and yet still standing up for the partner.
My long term relationship was clouded by alcohol over use, conflict avoidance, communication difficulties and I stayed even though I was hurting and minimised the issues because I ignored them, told myself it wasn't his fault, convinced myself I could deal with the situation - totally ignoring my feelings and with time, the situation became more severely dysfunctional. This kind of thing creeps up on you - I found myself tolerating things just this once, until just this once became normalised and I found myself disintegrated into a powerless boundariless jelly, bit by bit I was losing myself without even being aware it was happening.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 20:43:11 GMT
ocarina, i've done the same. i know it's because i wasn't treated with empathy from the time i was little. Now i know what caring behavior feels like. I used to have such a low bar, so if someone wasn't actively being mean to me i counted it a kindness! like, it felt warm and affectionate to me, just basic courtesy. And, i never (or very rarely i think i could say) experienced spontaneous affection toward me before either- until more recent years. I myself have always been affectionate, but i was always giving. i was the lover, never the loved, yes, avoidants want love too  To receive real hugs and physical affection from my friends has been so good for me. I do get a lot of hugs, almost daily. My partner is also affectionate and holds my hand if we are relaxing together. i know he is starved for it also. It's strange that his affection caused almost a cognitive dissonance because it triggered me. i'm not sure it could actually be called cognitive dissonance but it Did Not Compute. He reached for my hand first. i liked it but i freaked out later and distanced. how weird is that? can we feel cognitive dissonance THAT way? i never thought of it before. I'm sorry for how much all of us have been hurt.
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Post by ocarina on Mar 22, 2018 21:19:33 GMT
ocarina , i've done the same. i know it's because i wasn't treated with empathy from the time i was little. Now i know what caring behavior feels like. I used to have such a low bar, so if someone wasn't actively being mean to me i counted it a kindness! like, it felt warm and affectionate to me, just basic courtesy. And, i never (or very rarely i think i could say) experienced spontaneous affection toward me before either- until more recent years. I myself have always been affectionate, but i was always giving. i was the lover, never the loved, yes, avoidants want love too To receive real hugs and physical affection from my friends has been so good for me. I do get a lot of hugs, almost daily. My partner is also affectionate and holds my hand if we are relaxing together. i know he is starved for it also. It's strange that his affection caused almost a cognitive dissonance because it triggered me. i'm not sure it could actually be called cognitive dissonance but it Did Not Compute. He reached for my hand first. i liked it but i freaked out later and distanced. how weird is that? can we feel cognitive dissonance THAT way? i never thought of it before. I'm sorry for how much all of us have been hurt. Juniper - so much of this rings true - the low bar setting in particular. I can remember really falling for a man in the past simply because he sent a message saying he was sorry for some difficult experience I was having in the day - I cried, simply because it was such an unusual experience, to have someone caring that I was struggling and expressing that. Having always been the capable one I exude an aura of coping - and it's really hard to maintain - but even harder to admit to not coping, to not feeling great, Difficult to admit that even to myself at times - for fear the floodgates of years of submerged feeling may be overwhelming. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 21:32:40 GMT
ocarina, you have to cry and cry and cry! i trusted people who were helping me when they said to just sit and feel sad. I put myself in a hot bath in the dark and started talking out loud about what i thought wasn't nice to me. it sounds so stupid and simple. But when i started saying things out loud i felt like my throat was going to tear into pieces. it makes me well up right now to think about it because , well i don't know why: i guess just because i feel sad for myself about how much pain i had. i did not cry for years. through the worst of things in my adult life, and the most painful abuses against myself i never cried or felt sad that i could remember. just angry and like a warrior i guess is how i felt. I felt tough. One day i saw my face in the mirror and it was like looking at a younger girl, maybe a little sister, and i said "What happened to you?" that's when i started to get some help. Ugh ok that's enough for now, i have some tears. i just am also sad that you can relate. I cried when someone asked me how i was, and expressed support to me. same thing you describe. They actually acknowledged my pain and i was overwhelmed. because i didn't even tell them i was hurting they just assumed it and they were right. any normal person would hurt. why wouldn't i? what planet have i been on? but anyway, my life isn't like that anymore. i let my people know when i am hurting, or confused or scared, or what ever. like when my son went through a cancer scare, i didn't just stoically and competently handle it ,i called people to admit i was scared and hurting. Mostly women, but i do let men friends and my partner know if it's appropriate. My partner was great for me with that too, it was a male type cancer scare. anyway. can i ask you, ocarina, do you cry?
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