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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 0:34:32 GMT
i think it can be confusing to understand what it means when an avoidant needs "space", and why.
i think it's individual, and complex.
I was trying to explain to another member that my ability to engage with others ebbs and flows like a tide. I think that this is typical of a lot of people with or without attachment injuries, but may be more extreme in someone like me.
I go out to engage, and i have to come back in and be still to be in touch with myself, like going into a sanctuary in my own physical space, emotional space, mental space, spiritual space. in earlier times i would numb or just relax , but these days i engage myself and don't numb at all.
When i am ready to go there, i notice i feel a sense of sensory overwhelm. Engaging becomes too much. I feel claustrophobic mentally. My gears stop. I don't know quite how to explain it, but it's physiologically noticeable to me.
I ebb like this daily, and whatever is going on with me emotionally or mentally or physically determines how badly i need the solitude or non-engagement and what i will do with the time. But the time is always spent coming back to inner peace, quiet, pondering, regrouping, getting back to me. Sometimes, the mood is like climbing into a watchtower, sometimes the mood is like crawling into a hammock, sometimes it's like going into a church, there's a different feel depending on where i'm at- but i can only go there, wherever it is, alone.
It's a good thing, a vital thing for me.
So; i haven't completely covered it, but it's a start of a conversation. I would love to hear from other avoidants about what the need for "space" and the need for solitude is like for you?
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Post by goldilocks on Apr 9, 2018 3:04:24 GMT
I go out to engage, and i have to come back in and be still to be in touch with myself, like going into a sanctuary in my own physical space, emotional space, mental space, spiritual space. in earlier times i would numb or just relax , but these days i engage myself and don't numb at all. When i am ready to go there, i notice i feel a sense of sensory overwhelm. Engaging becomes too much. I feel claustrophobic mentally. My gears stop. I don't know quite how to explain it, but it's physiologically noticeable to me. .... So; i haven't completely covered it, but it's a start of a conversation. I would love to hear from other avoidants about what the need for "space" and the need for solitude is like for you? I feel pretty similar. Being alone is a time to recharge, reflect and relax. Reading and creative hobbies are also easier to engage in when I am alone. Sometimes I am tired and want a bathrobe day. Just relaxing, not having to be or do anything, just flowing and unwinding. With a partner, I need some alone time to want to cuddle again. After several days together, I feel less attracted. These are all things secure, especially introverted, people also experience, but for dismissives proportions may be a bit different. I don't tend to say "I need space" anymore as it sounds very ambiguous. Saying "I need a few days to myself to read and relax" is much more specific and people stay more secure over it. That said, some people think that the concept of not being able to be together all the time is wrong, but those are not relationship material for me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 3:19:06 GMT
yes, i don't say i need "space" either, it doesn't quite fit what i mean.
i am able to communicate simply and directly to the people in my life and actually they all get me and appreciate that this is just how i am. my kids don't get sensitive at all when mom says she needs some solitude, they are cheerful about it. But i make sure also, to really engage when i engage. across the board.
i take the "space" with me though the day and like to do a lot of activities alone. But i'm very extroverted and like people too. it's a mix. Underlying it all is a deep independence.
but all this is why cohabiting was difficult for me. also i only lived with more anxious or at least couple-y partners who felt neglected by this aspect of my personality. So it caused a lot of friction.
One thing that i would like to be understood, about me in general, is that i don't care only about my happiness. I really also don't want to make others unhappy.
So i have to choose a partner who i won't make unhappy just by being myself, and i have made mistakes with that before i understood it.
It doesn't feel good to me, to have someone suffer over this strong need of mine, so i have to acknowledge incompatibility when i see it. it's not necessarily personal although i know some people have taken it that way.
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Post by goldilocks on Apr 9, 2018 4:02:59 GMT
I guess it is like one person needing a full 8 hours of sleep and the other needing only 2. It's pretty hard for the latter to fully understand the former. It can be done if you don't take it personally, but many people do. I guess this stems from a combination of low self esteem and a lack of generosity of spirit.
If you would go do something alone and a guy's thought pattern would be "June needs alone time, maybe she is annoyed with me, I'm so boring...maybe she is not attracted...I need to lose weight...maybe it is everything... I'm such a loser" of course he will feel neglected.
When people are incompatible, it is very hard to be satisfied with each other and the relationship gets in the way of happiness for both partners. Better to be with someone relatively compatible and then work from there.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 4:30:01 GMT
I guess it is like one person needing a full 8 hours of sleep and the other needing only 2. It's pretty hard for the latter to fully understand the former. It can be done if you don't take it personally, but many people do. I guess this stems from a combination of low self esteem and a lack of generosity of spirit. If you would go do something alone and a guy's thought pattern would be "June needs alone time, maybe she is annoyed with me, I'm so boring...maybe she is not attracted...I need to lose weight...maybe it is everything... I'm such a loser" of course he will feel neglected. When people are incompatible, it is very hard to be satisfied with each other and the relationship gets in the way of happiness for both partners. Better to be with someone relatively compatible and then work from there. i don't have good editing on my phone or i would highlight the paragraph about the guy's low self esteem thoughts. i didn't know that that is what might be happening inside his head (past partners). what was expressed to me was just anger and bitterness and spite about ME and accusations of all different kinds. This is the attribution of malicious motives when i had none, that has caused me a lot of pain and anger. I didn't know anything about attachment styles back then. But lately i have been praying inside myself to try to extend compassion and forgiveness for the damage done to me by very angry men. I have not been able to understand things directed at me. Looking back, i need to see if perhaps the rage and even violence actually began as thoughts like that, and turned to protest behavior of an extreme kind. Beyond typical anxious preoccupied behavior, to be sure... there were comorbid things going on that put them on the far end of the spectrum. But, i need to reflect on that and see if that is what was going on. it could help me process those things a little bit more. thanks goldilocks, that didn't cross my mind, to see it like that. all i know is i made people really really angry and didn't get why.
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Post by goldilocks on Apr 9, 2018 5:05:42 GMT
While most people have a hard time exercising control over their thoughts, most people can keep their thoughts from controlling them to the point of damaging their partner.
Rage and violence is never okay, and know that you are never to blame for any of that. Not that I think you feel that way, but just to have it clear. A decent person, even if his thoughts are looping him into the ground, would have a strong ethical code that keeps him from using violence on his partner. One who does not gets into criminal territory.
My mother said she often felt like she was losing touch with me as a child, and she would get frustrated and raise her voice. Now while this may not be abusive to an average child, I was traumatized already and interpreted this as frightening and felt the need to get away from her to be safe.
I guess a person with comorbidities that damaged his empathy, ethics and/or self control could eventually become actually abusive in an illegal way when he has low self esteem, his only reason for living is his partner and then he feels like he is losing tough with his partner.
A person can have both attachment wounding and a personality disorder, but most people who have attachment wounding do not have a PD. A normal AP guy without comorbidity with try to get closer in a way that is within the law. For example, let her read while being silent but check every 3 minutes if she is open to contact yet or do some repairs hoping she will like him more. Less healthy, but not outlier, would be to blow up her phone, follow her around or continue to talk incessantly until she gives in and checks out emotionally while being physically present. Then it goes for the worse. More healthy boundaries, but still working with the low self esteem thought loop would be to go to the gym, get a hobby and be more interesting and lose weight, the whole effort being focussed on getting your love back. This would actually work a bit, as he might have slightly better self esteem and also spend some time out of doors which results in her having more alone time. It's probably not enough to make the relationship truly satisfying, but can at least stop two people from making each other miserable.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 11:45:57 GMT
yes he definitely had a PD , nor just an anxious attachment style, so i understand where he deviates from typical AP- but it's interesting and possibly helpful to look back in this light. At the time (during those years) i was so focused on protecting and taking care of myself and the kids, and how i could have missed the signs, that i didn't try to go inside his head at all. I just saw bizarre behavior, and that's all i needed to know.
He did in fact have a bit of obsession about his weight - i won't try to analyze him completely but i think it is possible he was self loathing and felt rejection where there was none, and lashed out instead of addressing his own vulnerability. all of this in extremes, influenced by the PD. He was so aggressive about needing me to give him attention that it was impossible to give him any, and o recoiled at the the dynamic . I just never saw it quite in this light.
Anyway, i am practicing wishing him healing and peace and if i think of him as a wounded soul turned aggressor it helps me feel less of a wall about that. I am doing this to heal anger in ME. i still have some contact with him around kids and while i feel no discomfort about that, there is a low level hatred, that does me no good. You'd never know to see us interact, as he's too scared of consequences to make a fuss and i like to maintain my manners.... but it's an internal thing that i don't need to carry any more.
Thanks for helping me unpack this. i swerved away a little bit but my avoidance definitely triggered him in his PD that was accompanied by AP... (why wouldn't someone avoid THAT lol) and it's just interesting and possibly helpful to me to look back with this lens.
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Post by goldilocks on Apr 9, 2018 17:35:42 GMT
Anyway, i am practicing wishing him healing and peace and if i think of him as a wounded soul turned aggressor it helps me feel less of a wall about that. I am doing this to heal anger in ME. i still have some contact with him around kids and while i feel no discomfort about that, there is a low level hatred, that does me no good. You'd never know to see us interact, as he's too scared of consequences to make a fuss and i like to maintain my manners.... but it's an internal thing that i don't need to carry any more. You have a big heart to be working on this. To see hatred is not good for you, to heal anger... I can't be easy.
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Post by meimei on Apr 9, 2018 18:48:06 GMT
Hi, I hope it’s ok to chime in here? I wanted to say, that as an AP (working towards being more secure), I love my alone time. I grew up as an only child and gravitated towards art at an early age because I didn’t have siblings to play with. As an adult, I have numerous hobbies, passions, and outside interests that I do on my own - sometimes with friends. Many of my interests, I cannot do with a partner. I imagine there are many preoccupied anxious people here on this forum who are passionate, talented, and very much appreciate their alone time as well. 😊
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 19:44:58 GMT
Hi, I hope it’s ok to chime in here? I wanted to say, that as an AP (working towards being more secure), I love my alone time. I grew up as an only child and gravitated towards art at an early age because I didn’t have siblings to play with. As an adult, I have numerous hobbies, passions, and outside interests that I do on my own - sometimes with friends. Many of my interests, I cannot do with a partner. I imagine there are many preoccupied anxious people here on this forum who are passionate, talented, and very much appreciate their alone time as well. 😊 hahah thanks, i'm sure! I wasn't looking at the desire for alone time as being unique to avoidants, as i mentioned in the original post. But i was looking specifically for avoidant feedback to this post in the support for avoidants forum. 😬 i wasn't trying to put it out in a general way but wanting to compare notes with others of this attachment style as it pays largely into a particular dynamic for us. thanks for understanding.
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Post by ocarina on Apr 9, 2018 20:17:03 GMT
Need for space. That's an interesting one.
Life for me often feels like an overwhelm - I have great coping skills in general and am pretty resilient but there comes a point, regularly where I need to shut down, escape from the requirement to be a certain way, to communicate, to function. When this point is reached it's more than a need for alone time - it's a kind of withdrawal into a state of non being.
I find that when under pressure I have very little to offer anyone else - I don't want to speak socially to even my nearest and dearest - I have to force myself to pick up the phone to my children even - so this lack of communication has nothing to do with how valued the person is, it's really a kind of survival mechanism to get past the overwhelm by putting my head down, screwing up my eyes and getting on with it.
Space can be mental as well as physical - if I have a day with a totally blank diary it feels wonderful - add one short engagement at some point and the peace and space is broken for the entire day.
It's funny because I have many friends and can be intensely social - but not for long. I am always the person who leaves early and abruptly at parties because I have nothing left to offer. Strangely my ex DA?FA partner was the same - I loved it, at last being with someone who wanted to be alone - with me and alone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 20:23:17 GMT
Need for space. That's an interesting one. Life for me often feels like an overwhelm - I have great coping skills in general and am pretty resilient but there comes a point, regularly where I need to shut down, escape from the requirement to be a certain way, to communicate, to function. When this point is reached it's more than a need for alone time - it's a kind of withdrawal into a state of non being. I find that when under pressure I have very little to offer anyone else - I don't want to speak socially to even my nearest and dearest - I have to force myself to pick up the phone to my children even - so this lack of communication has nothing to do with how valued the person is, it's really a kind of survival mechanism to get past the overwhelm by putting my head down, screwing up my eyes and getting on with it. Space can be mental as well as physical - if I have a day with a totally blank diary it feels wonderful - add one short engagement at some point and the peace and space is broken for the entire day. It's funny because I have many friends and can be intensely social - but not for long. I am always the person who leaves early and abruptly at parties because I have nothing left to offer. Strangely my ex DA?FA partner was the same - I loved it, at last being with someone who wanted to be alone - with me and alone. yes, much is the same for me. i don't feel overwhelmed generally tho, it's after a period of high engagement. my battery goes dead. my partner is the same. we are good together because we understand it so well. just silence if we both feel this way, or if just one of us does, peaceful, kind silence and some affection maybe, and all is well. One of the things i appreciate about having a similar temperament this way is that there are no misunderstandings, judgments, or hurt feelings about it. It's just peaceful around this issue and that means a lot to me. i do appreciate that when i need to have space i can actually take space WITH him too, i just curl up by him like a cat and rest and he's good with it. He can tell me he is unable to interact and we can just be still, it's very good, i have never felt so much myself and accepted actually , because he's the same. I imagine that's kind of what you're saying, ocarina ?
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Post by annieb on Apr 9, 2018 20:48:02 GMT
From talking to my DA and from my own point of view (FA), one aspect is that it is a fear of disappointing someone. So it's easier for the DA to drop off the face of the earth than to be confronted and disappoint people. Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe DA had a high self esteem. I think hey have a high false self esteem.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 20:52:53 GMT
From talking to my DA and from my own point of view (FA), one aspect is that it is a fear of disappointing someone. So it's easier for the DA to drop off the face of the earth than to be confronted and disappoint people. Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe DA had a high self esteem. I think hey have a high false self esteem. i'm unable to relate to this in terms of solitude but i think it's individual. i don't have negative feelings around it just a need to reset.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 21:04:25 GMT
From talking to my DA and from my own point of view (FA), one aspect is that it is a fear of disappointing someone. So it's easier for the DA to drop off the face of the earth than to be confronted and disappoint people. Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe DA had a high self esteem. I think hey have a high false self esteem. i am not looking for analysis of other people's behavior here, i am asking specifically, other avoidants, what is this like for you? Asking for personal experience, not an opinion on someone else's motivations. Personal experience and perspectives would be greatly appreciated. No mind reading.
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