|
|
Post by creditech on Apr 13, 2018 8:45:23 GMT
Long story short:
3/16: met DA for first time at Business Conference in Moscow. Exchanged numbers. Stayed in intermittent contact (I live in NYC. Job requires travel to Moscow/EE 2x/year. I travel 6 months out of the year regularly for work)
10/16: we sleep together for first time.
we stay in intermittent touch. No "dating" or deepening was mutually sought.
3/18: we sleep together for second time in Moscow. She makes time for me 5 nights. We mutually agree I would come visit her in Moscow after my trip to Kiev/Minsk.
This is when DA distancing behaviors became a pattern.
1. She regularly created open loop conversations on text. Leaving my questions unanswered on text, sending a text (here's a video of my hometown. I'd thoughtfully reply. She wouldn't continue the conversation or even READ my follow up).
2. She wouldn't answer texts.
3. One night we agreed to speak at 11 pm. At 11:15 when I asked if she was ready to talk, she said "walking home. 10 min." We didn't talk until 11:45, which was a disrespect of my time. She actually had a pattern of broken time committments, without short texts to explain situational challenges or texts to ask for a later time.
4. She is an executive assistant to a CEO in Moscow. So she lives his schedule. She is ALWAYS sick or suffering from some physical ailment. One time after running a design week, she was sick in the hospital for 3 weeks. She suffers tension headaches, suffers nerve pain in her a^% that affects her ability to stand. Her work is literally killing her.
5. She said she "doesn't have time for a bf right now" but would actively treat my like a bf
6. When I sent her a text of where my airbnb was in Moscow (a couple of blocks from her house), she didn't answer. I had to chase closure to her opinion of the airbnb location when I thought in fact, she would be happy.
7. She glamorized some casual sexual relationship of a guy from her hometown from 9/16. She was ready to move from Moscow to be with this guy.
Ultimately, I felt like an option. I felt like a second class priority.
So I broke it off with her. Cancelled the trip to Moscow. Told her "no one who treats me like an option. No one who treats me like a second class priority in their life is worth it to me. Good bye and good riddance" (granted, the good riddance was excessive, but I was upset).
Any thoughts? Just curious if she even feels anything right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 13, 2018 11:40:36 GMT
Welcome to the forums....I am not 100% certain of what you are looking for when you say "any thoughts". Are you asking for confirmation that she has DA tendencies? Just an observation...It reads to me almost like a detached account...keeping only the bits that really speak to showing that the issues were with her. Attachment theory is a tool, it does not define a person and since it seems most of your interactions were either in text or phone...then it would be much harder to really define her.
I am curious however...if she kept distancing from you and making excuses etc....why did you stay involved? Why get an Airbnb close to her house? Sure there is more to this from your side that is not shared above. Could you provide a bit more about yourself?
|
|
|
|
Post by creditech on Apr 13, 2018 13:05:20 GMT
I have a few thoughts... This clearly, by your definition, was not a relationship. You both stated you didn't want that, no? So, there was nothing to break up. Officially, there was no "break up". Thus the quotes in the post title. Neither of us stated we didn't want a relationship with each other. She made comments in passing, that she didn't have time for a BF. I forgot to add a key piece to the puzzle. We both agreed that I would come from Kiev to Moscow to visit her. The dates were discussed with each other. The only purpose was to spend time with her. No business in Moscow. This represented a risk of time and money invested from my end. As well, to me (and I believe to her too, since she stated she wanted to "feel like I was there" everyday) it represented an escalation of something casual to something more serious. 45min to wait for a phone call bcuz she was walking home is not unreasonable. Did it really ruin your night? Sorry, but that's a little dramatic. How about, "take your time and call me when you're home safe". That maybe would've gotten ya some points 😊 I cut my evening short with friends to take her call. Why? because the wifi connection at the restaurant I was at was not reliable. How do I know this? We tried WhatsApp calling, but it didn't work. So we both agreed to speak at 11. The unreliability in keeping her word with appointments was a pattern and not isolated to just this incident either. From what little info you gave, it sounds more like a casual hook up when your in country twice a year. I don't see how you can build anything off of that, but that may be just me and my own preferences. Everyone is different. Travel to Eastern Europe is easy for me. And done regularly. I'm not sure you can label her "DA" with so little time together. She may just not want more than that casual thing as you both agreed on. As stated, we both did not agree this was just a casual thing. If you want more, you did the right thing to move on. Good for you! And, yeah, "good riddance" did nothing for you,you should probably drop that line 😉. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 13:06:16 GMT
any involvement between two people who live across an ocean who will possibly run into each other twice a year is a hookup with no strings and i cannot imagine how it could be seen as anything other. there is not even an opportunity to learn about each other to see if potential for compatibility exists. This is an example of an impossible "relationship" which suited the sexual and companionship needs of one and the the fantasy relationship of you, an Anxious Preoccupied individual. There's a lot of support here for that, it seems to be a pretty helpful community if posters if you'd like to explore that. I am making assumptions and drawing conclusions based on your account, admittedly, But you asked for thoughts and there they are.  Welcome to the forum, it's much more helpful to organize your thoughts around your own behavior, but if you want to analyze someone else we will give it our best shot and then probably shut it down because it's a total guessing game.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 13:09:07 GMT
"she didn't have time for a BF"
you can't assume that something else is true just because you both didn't say this or didn't say that.
a relationship develops over time with mutual intention supported by action.
|
|
|
|
Post by creditech on Apr 13, 2018 13:16:58 GMT
any involvement between two people who live across an ocean who will possibly run into each other twice a year is a hookup with no strings and i cannot imagine how it could be seen as anything other. there is not even an opportunity to learn about each other to see if potential for compatibility exists. When we made mutual plans for me to visit Moscow, that escalated the importance of the casual hookup to something possibly more permanent. Since I'm in western europe 6 times a year, eastern europe 3-4 times a year, and travel for income 6+ months out of the year, the long distance aspect does not represent an impossible fantasy relationship. Changing jobs to something with less travel is not a financial option right now, unfortunately. This is an example of an impossible "relationship" which suited the sexual and companionship needs of one and the the fantasy relationship of you, an Anxious Preoccupied individual. There's a lot of support here for that, it seems to be a pretty helpful community if posters if you'd like to explore that. It's not an impossible relationship. I don't deny that in this case, I exhibited AP traits. I am making assumptions and drawing conclusions based on your account, admittedly, But you asked for thoughts and there they are. Welcome to the forum, it's much more helpful to organize your thoughts around your own behavior, but if you want to analyze someone else we will give it our best shot and then probably shut it down because it's a total guessing game. Thanks for your thoughts. I just wonder how a DA would process this experience of me walking away. In the forums, I've read it's often the DA that cuts ties first, not the AP. Thus, my question. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 13, 2018 13:19:48 GMT
I have a few thoughts... This clearly, by your definition, was not a relationship. You both stated you didn't want that, no? So, there was nothing to break up. Officially, there was no "break up". Thus the quotes in the post title. Neither of us stated we didn't want a relationship with each other. She made comments in passing, that she didn't have time for a BF. I forgot to add a key piece to the puzzle. We both agreed that I would come from Kiev to Moscow to visit her. The dates were discussed with each other. The only purpose was to spend time with her. No business in Moscow. This represented a risk of time and money invested from my end. As well, to me (and I believe to her too, since she stated she wanted to "feel like I was there" everyday) it represented an escalation of something casual to something more serious. 45min to wait for a phone call bcuz she was walking home is not unreasonable. Did it really ruin your night? Sorry, but that's a little dramatic. How about, "take your time and call me when you're home safe". That maybe would've gotten ya some points 😊 I cut my evening short with friends to take her call. Why? because the wifi connection at the restaurant I was at was not reliable. How do I know this? We tried WhatsApp calling, but it didn't work. So we both agreed to speak at 11. The unreliability in keeping her word with appointments was a pattern and not isolated to just this incident either. From what little info you gave, it sounds more like a casual hook up when your in country twice a year. I don't see how you can build anything off of that, but that may be just me and my own preferences. Everyone is different. Travel to Eastern Europe is easy for me. And done regularly. I'm not sure you can label her "DA" with so little time together. She may just not want more than that casual thing as you both agreed on. As stated, we both did not agree this was just a casual thing. If you want more, you did the right thing to move on. Good for you! And, yeah, "good riddance" did nothing for you,you should probably drop that line 😉. I understand you are hurt...it makes so much sense...but honestly it sounds like there were a lot of things on your side that were either not stated or were expectations or interpretation through your own lens. From your side, it sounds like you were treating this is if it was something a bit more serious where it seems from her side, it may have been viewed as more "casual". Did you ever share with her that you wanted it to be a proper relationship? When she implied she did not want a relationship, but acted like it was one, did you bring that to her attention? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 13:22:28 GMT
i'm DA, and i would accept it completely because i told you in the beginning i don't have time for a BF.
i could see that you were trying to move it into another territory but i really don't have time and i thought i was clear enough.
i've got a lot on my plate and i'm sorry we could make that work for both of us but it is what it is.
maybe we can be friends.
Wait, you said good riddance.
maybe not.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 13:30:38 GMT
based on your description,
i would guess she has dismissive attachment.
the time thing is quite a conundrum, for me in particular.
but i always communicate about it, and keep hard schedules to a minimum because my busy life and my dented head make me prone to messing fixed call times up. but a text or call takes two seconds and i don't leave people waiting if i can help it. i truly mean well and i think i show that to those i value.
if she wanted you as a boyfriend she would have communicated differently.
i would say, you were trying to heat it up and she was trying to cool it down.
Our DA behavior is extremely uncomfortable for someone with the opposite AP style. But often, we set the tone early on and assumptions otherwise begin.
"I don't have time for a BF" was the statement you were expected to understand. it was fair.
beyond that, assumptions were made.
it's ambiguous on both ends, yours and hers. she assumed you knew the deal, you assumed it could change.
relationships are obvious. seriously. any guessing is just a game.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 13:47:41 GMT
also,
i need to mention-
it IS possible for a casual thing to turn into a relationship.
my partner is also DA and that is what happened between us.
But it took time, and mutual intention to stay together and share more of ourselves and our lives.
We are truly compatible, which is more of a challenge for an anxious/ dismissive couple.
The key to our happiness has been in each person actively addressing their own unhealthy patterns inbrelarionshop.
I have never gained any true understanding or peace by trying to make sense of my partner hahahahaha!
any insight into him has come after looking for and finding insight into myself.
So anyway, i'm sorry you went through this, i do get it. i've been disappointed in relationships also.
|
|
|
|
Post by creditech on Apr 13, 2018 13:49:35 GMT
i'm DA, and i would accept it completely because i told you in the beginning i don't have time for a BF. i could see that you were trying to move it into another territory but i really don't have time and i thought i was clear enough. i've got a lot on my plate and i'm sorry we could make that work for both of us but it is what it is. maybe we can be friends. Wait, you said good riddance. maybe not. Brilliant. Thank you for your reply. One detail to add, when she stated she didn't have time for a boyfriend, I was under the impression we weren't at BF/GF yet. We both did agree we were "dating" though. The way I see it, if she acts this way now with delayed replies, cooling it down effects etc, at the beginning of dating, I am not going to change her. We are simply incompatible. the time thing is quite a conundrum, for me in particular. but i always communicate about it, and keep hard schedules to a minimum because my busy life and my dented head make me prone to messing fixed call times up. but a text or call takes two seconds and i don't leave people waiting if i can help it. i truly mean well and i think i show that to those i value. Taking two seconds to not leave people waiting? That's priceless. From my end, that would have solved most of our communication problems. For in person, and phone calls, our conversations were great. Text was a disaster. Since this was a boundary I'm not comfortable compromising with anyone, I walked. |
|
|
|
Post by creditech on Apr 13, 2018 13:51:26 GMT
also, i need to mention- it IS possible for a casual thing to turn into a relationship. my partner is also DA and that is what happened between us. But it took time, and mutual intention to stay together and share more of ourselves and our lives. We are truly compatible, which is more of a challenge for an anxious/ dismissive couple. The key to our happiness has been in each person actively addressing their own unhealthy patterns inbrelarionshop. I have never gained any true understanding or peace by trying to make sense of my partner hahahahaha! any insight into him has come after looking for and finding insight into myself. So anyway, i'm sorry you went through this, i do get it. i've been disappointed in relationships also. This is amazing for both of you. That you can both work towards a mutual goal, that's great. Sincerely, I hope you guys sustain a long term till death do you part committment. |
|
|
|
Post by creditech on Apr 13, 2018 16:05:02 GMT
Ok, sorry, maybe I misunderstood. You said no dating or deepening was mutually sought and that she stated she didn't have time for a boyfriend. Maybe that changed over time and was not stated in your post? Either way, I agree that you seem to fall on the AP side of things hense your question as to what she may be thinking. Obviously, we can only guess to that. I still think you're a little harsh with the time thing. Life happens and you stated she was crazy busy to a point of hurting her physical health. Something us AP's need to work on is living our lives and not leaving our social lives to grab a phone call. This is how we start the push/pull. We willingly put ourselves out and then resent when our partner doesn't appreciate or reciprocate, kwim? Are you looking to try and work something out with her or just trying to resolve the past events for yourself and your own peace of mind? Thanks for your answer and no problem. I'm just trying to make some sense of what happened. Already moved on. In this isolated incident, I'd say I did exhibit some AP traits, probably amplified because of the context in whom I was relating to. However, before I quit, I did attempt assertive communication. Multiple times. I stated repeatedly on separate occasions, "When you don't answer my texts, I feel ignored, feel overlooked, and feel unimportant." She said she'd answer my texts in later conversations too. But it didn't happen. This will be a pattern of behavior I don't feel comfortable working through. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 13, 2018 16:19:06 GMT
Ok, sorry, maybe I misunderstood. You said no dating or deepening was mutually sought and that she stated she didn't have time for a boyfriend. Maybe that changed over time and was not stated in your post? Either way, I agree that you seem to fall on the AP side of things hense your question as to what she may be thinking. Obviously, we can only guess to that. I still think you're a little harsh with the time thing. Life happens and you stated she was crazy busy to a point of hurting her physical health. Something us AP's need to work on is living our lives and not leaving our social lives to grab a phone call. This is how we start the push/pull. We willingly put ourselves out and then resent when our partner doesn't appreciate or reciprocate, kwim? Are you looking to try and work something out with her or just trying to resolve the past events for yourself and your own peace of mind? Thanks for your answer and no problem. I'm just trying to make some sense of what happened. Already moved on. In this isolated incident, I'd say I did exhibit some AP traits, probably amplified because of the context in whom I was relating to. However, before I quit, I did attempt assertive communication. Multiple times. I stated repeatedly on separate occasions, "When you don't answer my texts, I feel ignored, feel overlooked, and feel unimportant." She said she'd answer my texts in later conversations too. But it didn't happen. This will be a pattern of behavior I don't feel comfortable working through. Hey Creditect...just for future consideration...it is best to start text messages with "I" sentences..."You" sentences come across as attacking and put the other person on the defense. If I said to you what you said to her...how would you feel? Would you want to respond? 🤔 Case in point " When you don't answer my texts I feel ignored" versus "I really enjoy it when I get a timely response from you. When I don't receive a timely response, I begin to wonder what is going on, and I start to feel unimportant." |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 16:34:11 GMT
also, i need to mention- it IS possible for a casual thing to turn into a relationship. my partner is also DA and that is what happened between us. But it took time, and mutual intention to stay together and share more of ourselves and our lives. We are truly compatible, which is more of a challenge for an anxious/ dismissive couple. The key to our happiness has been in each person actively addressing their own unhealthy patterns inbrelarionshop. I have never gained any true understanding or peace by trying to make sense of my partner hahahahaha! any insight into him has come after looking for and finding insight into myself. So anyway, i'm sorry you went through this, i do get it. i've been disappointed in relationships also. This is amazing for both of you. That you can both work towards a mutual goal, that's great. Sincerely, I hope you guys sustain a long term till death do you part committment. thank you, i am very happy. i have to admit that the till death part mystifies me, as that is not our goal. i know it is a standard measure of commitment. Our goal is to show up as our best for each other on a daily basis and care for each other with everything we have. i think the longevity of it could be a natural outcome but i am always taken aback and a little startled when someone words it that way! i guess i see a lot of the til death intention without the daily intention to support it so it has lost its meaning to me. i wonder if i have a strange fixation with death because i always remind myself that i could lose him tomorrow and it makes me get centered on being true to him while i can. i wonder if this is just a difference in perspectives between types? i should start a thread on this some time because it keeps surprising me! |
|
