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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 15:01:48 GMT
Dear scheme00 (and everyone else for whom this may apply too...), you're not really ruined. I hope you don't take this the wrong way because I mean well. An example of "Ruined" for me is more like a family man in Africa witnessing his wife and kids raped and killed by cold-blooded mercenaries who themselves lived through unthinkable acts of violence and abuse. Or a father, an ordinary baker or grocer, in the Middle East who screams in pain as he digs out the lifeless bodies of his children from the rubble of his once-proud little home hit by a missile, through no fault of his own.
Even then, many of these decent men go on to help others more unfortunate, to continue to honor the lives of their loved ones, to give meaning to their lives, with or without partners.
We are living in a privileged society, and no one has an exclusive franchise on "pain", childhood or otherwise.
This is in no way meant to diminish yours, but to ask that please do look on the bright side, move on and make a happy life for yourself.
Someone looking at me, seemingly carefree, attractive, intelligent and smiling, cannot imagine what I had gone through. I assure you it's no less than what most have endured, including Dickensian starvation by a step-parent (I survived on pickles and gruel for years in a household of plenty while abused by her daily, I could not talk to my loving father, we secretly exchanged letters because it was the only method we could communicate without her standing nearby with her hands on her hips, I had to move out in my youth and leave my father to take on the full brunt of the abuse, feeling terrible guilt about leaving him behind a thoroughly broken man, who was the kindest person I've ever known, she blamed me for his early death from cancer, she took every cent my father had accumulated for herself and my traumatized stepbrother, etc...) and I went on to endure more abuse and rejection for years from an NPD partner who was himself abused as a child.
I am finally free and learning my lessons, and one of the most important is to learn to be GRATEFUL. Yes, the unthinkable happened, but they are all lessons for me to learn my own worth, and what I can bring to the table.
All of us here, with insecure attachment styles, AP, DA or FA, need to learn what it is about us that made us stay in relationships that were not good for us, that made us feel "less than".
Sometimes it is our attachment style that drove healthy partners away, sometimes it is the choices we made to stay with unhealthy ones. Sometimes it might be both.
As long as we are unhappy and unfulfilled in some ways, it is our responsibility to find out HOW to create a fulfilling life for ourselves, without pushing that responsibility onto another person.
It is our responsibility to tell ourselves that all these will pass, and we WILL walk towards the sunshine, with a smile for all the good that had happened to us nonetheless, for lessons learned, even if they were painful ones, to make ourselves better.
No one is ruined, including the men and women who suffered terrible losses, all of us have a duty to go on and make a great life for ourselves and others. That's the only way to make things right, for ourselves and others.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 22, 2018 15:37:44 GMT
Dear scheme00 (and everyone else for whom this may apply too...), you're not really ruined. I hope you don't take this the wrong way because I mean well. An example of "Ruined" for me is more like a family man in Africa witnessing his wife and kids raped and killed by cold-blooded mercenaries who themselves lived through unthinkable acts of violence and abuse. Or a father, an ordinary baker or grocer, in the Middle East who screams in pain as he digs out the lifeless bodies of his children from the rubble of his once-proud little home hit by a missile, through no fault of his own. Even then, many of these decent men go on to help others more unfortunate, to continue to honor the lives of their loved ones, to give meaning to their lives, with or without partners. We are living in a privileged society, and no one has an exclusive franchise on "pain", childhood or otherwise. This is in no way meant to diminish yours, but to ask that please do look on the bright side, move on and make a happy life for yourself. Someone looking at me, seemingly carefree, attractive, intelligent and smiling, cannot imagine what I had gone through. I assure you it's no less than what most have endured, including Dickensian starvation by a step-parent (I survived on pickles and gruel for years in a household of plenty while abused by her daily, I could not talk to my loving father, we secretly exchanged letters because it was the only method we could communicate without her standing nearby with her hands on her hips, I had to move out in my youth and leave my father to take on the full brunt of the abuse, feeling terrible guilt about leaving him behind a thoroughly broken man, who was the kindest person I've ever known, she blamed me for his early death from cancer, she took every cent my father had accumulated for herself and my traumatized stepbrother, etc...) and I went on to endure more abuse and rejection for years from an NPD partner who was himself abused as a child. I am finally free and learning my lessons, and one of the most important is to learn to be GRATEFUL. Yes, the unthinkable happened, but they are all lessons for me to learn my own worth, and what I can bring to the table. All of us here, with insecure attachment styles, AP, DA or FA, need to learn what it is about us that made us stay in relationships that were not good for us, that made us feel "less than". Sometimes it is our attachment style that drove healthy partners away, sometimes it is the choices we made to stay with unhealthy ones. Sometimes it might be both. As long as we are unhappy and unfulfilled in some ways, it is our responsibility to find out HOW to create a fulfilling life for ourselves, without pushing that responsibility onto another person. It is our responsibility to tell ourselves that all these will pass, and we WILL walk towards the sunshine, with a smile for all the good that had happened to us nonetheless, for lessons learned, even if they were painful ones, to make ourselves better. No one is ruined, including the men and women who suffered terrible losses, all of us have a duty to go on and make a great life for ourselves and others. That's the only way to make things right, for ourselves and others. I agree that we are responsible for ourselves and that gratitude is extremely important because what we focus on "expands"..so seeing the "good" around us leads to seeing more "good". I do not want to downplay however the importance of connection to others. Oftentimes, out of embarrassment or shame or guilt or feelings of inadequacy, we withdraw from others when we experience attachment pain. It is very important, while going through the grief of disconnection from a person that we viewed as important (such as a romantic partner) to have safe people to reach out to. A lot of our attachment issues only surface when we are in "relationship" to others, which is why it is very hard to work on them all on our own. Self love is important, having others who love us for who we are as we are right now is critical to our healing journey. So scheme...I hope you have others who you can be vunerable with and who can sit with you as you experience your grief and simply be good friends. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 16:23:01 GMT
tnr9, With due respect, you and I are very different persons with very different opinions about life, partners, personal journeys, etc. Can you please just post in your own perspective without reference to mine? This isn't the first time.
I often refer directly to OP's situation, not to yours.
Please accept that unless I directly address you or your posts, NONE of my posts to others are meant for you in anyway.
I'm a more independent person who believes that we are all responsible for our own inner work, that first and foremost we owe it to ourselves to fill our own lives. That we should not shove this responsibility upon others. With or without a partner, we should be making our lives worthwhile to live.
That is the only way not to feel ruined by another person.
First, by depending on others for our happiness, we give too much power to the others, secondly we also put too much burden on the others who might not welcome the responsibility they did not ask for. It can be suffocating for others. Most of all, we cannot control others, how they feel, what they desire, what they need, we can only control our own, and to make ourselves better.
Nowhere in my posts did I write that we should not seek friends or partners, or find fulfilling relationships with them. This is your interpretation.
It is only as a person who is whole that we should open our gardens of plenty to those we care about, instead of needing others to tend to our gardens. Of course ideally, we all link our beautiful gardens to invite each other in to part-take in a spirit of generosity, not in a spirit of need.
I find that dysfunctional AP behavior such as stalking, pining, checking up on those who decide to put distance between themselves and their exes are all boundary violating behavior.
I certainly do not wish any of my exes to do any of that, but instead to respect my privacy. I have my reasons to close my boundaries to some or open them to others.
If someone asks to be left alone, please respect their request to do so, and move on. There will be the right partners for them somewhere, or even their current partners might be the right ones if the APs change their dysfunctional behavior.
Yes, BOTH AP and Avoidant behaviors are dysfunctional. Both behaviors cause grief in their own ways to their partners. And we all have work to do on ourselves, no exception.
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Post by kelvain on Apr 22, 2018 16:50:25 GMT
Hey Scheme00, one really wonderful thing that's very obvious here is that you have a lot of support from the members of this community, and that support comes without judgement. It may be a rather small consolation but at least you possibly may find some comfort in knowing that you can post your feelings and thoughts. And we will do our best to help lift you up with words of encouragement or through sharing our own experiences when you feel that you are falling down and cannot go on.
As a side note; if your ex can't see your value then she isn't worth losing sleep over. Maybe one day she'll wake up and realize what she tossed away and want to come back but, like my situation, you may have already found someone who enriches your life far more.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 17:00:13 GMT
Yes, my message is meant to say, never tell yourself that you are "ruined" because of another. Believe in yourself that you don't need your ex to become the whole person that you already are. If you don't feel that, then do the inner work until you do, cultivate your own garden and the time will come when your garden will attract the right partner who will also invite you inside hers. Both doing so in a spirit of genuine love, i.e. generosity, not need.
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Post by scheme00 on Apr 22, 2018 18:10:31 GMT
Thanks you everyone for your posts. I’m still in shock mostly. The hard part that I am struggling with is fantasizing about them together and the fact that she “likes” him even though her and I dated for a good length of time. And the fact that she (in my view) got over it so easy and jumped in bed with him and now is enamored with him and he does not have much to offer and she’s really into him. I’m the one that broke it off with her and I thought “she wants me back!” only to find her attention and attraction is for him. Compound that with how I lost my cool in front of her and am stuck with a feeling of rejection and disappointment in myself. I fear I have totally turned her off and went from this calm cool guy that had standards to a insecure 2nd or 3rd option in her mind.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 19:51:02 GMT
One of my favorite authors is Walt Whitman. I really like this quote: Either define the moment or the moment will define you. Take charge.  |
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Post by scheme00 on Apr 22, 2018 19:55:03 GMT
One of my favorite authors is Walt Whitman. I really like this quote: Either define the moment or the moment will define you. Take charge. Can you elaborate on this in how you would apply it in my situation? 😀 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 20:05:48 GMT
One of my favorite authors is Walt Whitman. I really like this quote: Either define the moment or the moment will define you. Take charge. Can you elaborate on this in how you would apply it in my situation? 😀 You are still caught up with "her" a lot, see your previous posts. And this follows too: either define the experience or the experience will define you. Use this as a springboard to become a better version of yourself. If you find that you become "lost" a lot without her, I would recommend Marisa Peer and her methods, in particular her book "Ultimate Confidence". I have nothing to do with her or her organization, but found her methods so easy to understand and use, with almost instant results. I like Attachment theories for explaining a lot of the "Whys", but they haven't offered much in terms of "Hows". Peer has influenced my own thinking, and I have become more conscious of what I tell myself. She is particularly good for APs, I think. You will hit an epiphany when you come across one of her sections on your state of despair calling out "I'm ruined!" See for yourself. As I explained on the other thread about "identity loss after break up", it isn't about avoiding failures and pitfalls in life, because they will always happen. It is about building yourself up so much that you do not fear trying or failing. It is with overcoming each failure that you become your success. Give a man a fish and he won't go hungry for a day, teach a man to fish and he won't go hungry for life...something akin to that. If you can grasp that, you're on your way! |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 22, 2018 20:50:37 GMT
tnr9, With due respect, you and I are very different persons with very different opinions about life, partners, personal journeys, etc. Can you please just post in your own perspective without reference to mine? This isn't the first time. I often refer directly to OP's situation, not to yours. Please accept that unless I directly address you or your posts, NONE of my posts to others are meant for you in anyway. I'm a more independent person who believes that we are all responsible for our own inner work, that first and foremost we owe it to ourselves to fill our own lives. That we should not shove this responsibility upon others. With or without a partner, we should be making our lives worthwhile to live. That is the only way not to feel ruined by another person. First, by depending on others for our happiness, we give too much power to the others, secondly we also put too much burden on the others who might not welcome the responsibility they did not ask for. It can be suffocating for others. Most of all, we cannot control others, how they feel, what they desire, what they need, we can only control our own, and to make ourselves better. Nowhere in my posts did I write that we should not seek friends or partners, or find fulfilling relationships with them. This is your interpretation. It is only as a person who is whole that we should open our gardens of plenty to those we care about, instead of needing others to tend to our gardens. Of course ideally, we all link our beautiful gardens to invite each other in to part-take in a spirit of generosity, not in a spirit of need. I find that dysfunctional AP behavior such as stalking, pining, checking up on those who decide to put distance between themselves and their exes are all boundary violating behavior. I certainly do not wish any of my exes to do any of that, but instead to respect my privacy. I have my reasons to close my boundaries to some or open them to others. If someone asks to be left alone, please respect their request to do so, and move on. There will be the right partners for them somewhere, or even their current partners might be the right ones if the APs change their dysfunctional behavior. Yes, BOTH AP and Avoidant behaviors are dysfunctional. Both behaviors cause grief in their own ways to their partners. And we all have work to do on ourselves, no exception. That is fine...nothing personal. 🙂. Just adding my perspective...but I will post in the future without any reference to yours. |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 22, 2018 21:02:07 GMT
Scheme....Marissa Peel is a good resource...I have watched a lot of her videos.....the one that really helped the most was on dealing with rejection. Definately watch that one because I know that I don't have the best boundaries and her 5 levels of dealing with rejection do actually depersonalize things that normally I might take personally. I also put I am Enough around my house...but found that hasn't been as impactful to me...perhaps it will for you. I think having "tools" is great and it really boils down to what works for you on an individual basis. i hope you are doing better.
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Post by yasmin on Apr 22, 2018 21:53:10 GMT
Thanks you everyone for your posts. I’m still in shock mostly. The hard part that I am struggling with is fantasizing about them together and the fact that she “likes” him even though her and I dated for a good length of time. And the fact that she (in my view) got over it so easy and jumped in bed with him and now is enamored with him and he does not have much to offer and she’s really into him. I’m the one that broke it off with her and I thought “she wants me back!” only to find her attention and attraction is for him. Compound that with how I lost my cool in front of her and am stuck with a feeling of rejection and disappointment in myself. I fear I have totally turned her off and went from this calm cool guy that had standards to a insecure 2nd or 3rd option in her mind. Hi Scheme I just want to go over some facts here to bring you back to reality rather than you making yourself feel like crap with this story... 1. Some people can jump into new relationships very quickly, some can't. It has absolutely NO bearing on how they felt about their previous partner. The person in my life who loved me the most / hurt the worst over our breakup dated someone almost instantly for about a year. It didn't mean jack. 2. She is very unlikely to be as happy and crazy into him as you are torturing yourself to believe if she got in contact to meet up with her ex! 3. Losing your cool with her was GREAT. Own your feelings, you deserve to have them, she has been an asshole -good job losing your cool! 4. You were the " cool and calm" guy who tolerated her BS for ages and it didn't make her love you. 5. People who are REALLY secure would respond to this behavior by yelling at the person to go to hell. You're approaching this with really low self esteem, worrying that you are worth less in her eyes. What you should be seeing is that SHE is worth less now in YOUR eyes. You don't have to pretend to be the cool calm guy. How about you be the guy who wants to date women who are worthy? Know your worth now, even if that means blowing up every darn bridge with this woman, know your worth. It's more than hers. She doesn't even sound like a nice person |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 22:12:05 GMT
tnr9, thanks for respecting my boundaries and not to refer to my posts here. I appreciate it. I'm sorry that you judge Peer's method and whether it works based on one or two videos, as there is much much more which are elaborated in her books. But ymmv. scheme00 I brought up Peer's work in this forum, and therefore feel responsible to provide the full picture. I really should have done this earlier. It isn't enough to watch her short videos - the videos are an *introduction* to the methods she is recommending. Her videos are most useful in demonstrating that you can coach your own mind to WORK for you, to work towards your goals. In particular, the TED Talk on Mind hacking. She is showing how you can define your experiences to make them positive rather than negative. www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCv-ZBy6_yUPlease note that this is only a BEGINNING, the tip of the iceberg. Switching one's feelings while riding a roller coaster is one thing, getting over a life-shattering experience is another ball game. But one step at a time, you must be convinced first, as doubts would immediately set you back with this method into your default mode. First she is showing you that you can take charge of your mind, your thinking, your feelings, and how. Her quick experiments show that your mind is suggestible, it is possible for you to control your mind to achieve what you set out to achieve, to become your best partner, all your life. It is your tool, use your mind to work for you. Please do not put up stickers of "I am Enough" and expect miracles, especially in a few days, even though this is the fundamental message she wants her audience to receive, and what she finds missing in many of her patients, from celebrities with money and fame to those who live in trailers and never saw a beach in their lives. That they all felt they weren't enough, rich or poor, celebrities or ordinary people. There's *a lot more* in her books, especially about training the Mind, how you might be wiring your mind to your detriment, the concept of neuroplasticity, how to REPROGRAM your mind, to operate at your optimum, debunking some of our long-held beliefs, dealing with public speaking, failures, bullies, etc. Even now, after having gone through her book of several hundred pages, I am only at the BEGINNING of embarking on the journey to reprogram the way I think and act. I kept going back to underlined paragraphs to remind myself. I need to continuously practise these methods, as I keep going back to default thinking. I have been doing this type of thinking for decades, it will take years before I make her concepts mine, an integral part of myself. However, even now, at this early stage, I have already regained my mojo, and ready for whatever greets me next on my path. So please do not take her few minutes videos as the full impact of her methods. Read the reviews of her books for yourself: www.amazon.co.uk/Ultimate-Confidence-Secrets-Feeling-Yourself/dp/1847441386Again, I am not associated with Peer in any form whatsoever. I found it so helpful as it is all about the "Hows", how to rid yourself of dysfunctional thinking, how to change to become the person you want to be, master of yourself and your destiny. |
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Post by kelvain on Apr 22, 2018 22:31:54 GMT
Thanks you everyone for your posts. I’m still in shock mostly. The hard part that I am struggling with is fantasizing about them together and the fact that she “likes” him even though her and I dated for a good length of time. And the fact that she (in my view) got over it so easy and jumped in bed with him and now is enamored with him and he does not have much to offer and she’s really into him. I’m the one that broke it off with her and I thought “she wants me back!” only to find her attention and attraction is for him. Compound that with how I lost my cool in front of her and am stuck with a feeling of rejection and disappointment in myself. I fear I have totally turned her off and went from this calm cool guy that had standards to a insecure 2nd or 3rd option in her mind. My POV... If she truly loved you then it wouldn't matter how you acted because she would have looked for every reason to work it out rather than her looking for every reason to not even try or forgive you. Why would you want to waste your time on someone who doesn't think you're worth it? This is one of the thoughts/realizations that helped me to get over my ex DA. |
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Post by mrob on Apr 22, 2018 23:32:41 GMT
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned here is grief. Surely there is a reasonable time to go through the stages of grief before even wanting to move on emotionally. Its when that grief period turns into looping thoughts and their caustic nature that one needs all of the great tools mentioned above.
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