Post by Zack on Nov 10, 2016 19:48:42 GMT
I am looking for advice on what to look for in a Therapist for a Dismissive Avoidant. But let me give you a little background first. I have been married to a Dismissive-Avoidant for 11 years and together as a couple for 15 years. I did not realize she was a Dismissive for many years but I saw all the tell tell signs not understanding exactly what or why it was happening. I am a Secure type and like to think of myself as not needy. Although, I have been accused of being needy for 15 years, more on that in a minute.
My dismissive avoidant wife is a wonderful person. She is caring (to others), hard working, determined, beautiful, and a great Mom to our 10 year old son. She has literally been my best friend for 15 years, and up until about a year ago I would have said my marriage was good. I had flexibility to work (I work a lot), I had time to myself a good bit (I enjoy it and need it from time to time), and the least needy wife known to anyone. She never got jealous, or restricted me from doing anything I wanted to do. As a result I tried to be the same way with her.
In 15 years I can probably count on one hand the number of times we actually argued. The few times things became heated it was me raising my voice in frustration (over something dismissive) and her not raising hers at all. She would simply inform me she didn't want to talk about it. At that point, the few times this occurred, I would continue to talk, justifying my point. She would sit there, with a frustrated look on her face, and once I was done that was it. The most argument I got back was "I don't want to talk about it," or "Are you done yet?" After a while I stopped trying to argue, even when I was frustrated. What's the point if no one will debate it back with you. I tend to be non-confrontational anyway so it wasn't extremely difficult.
She rarely said "I love you" and often didn't return it when I said it to her. I would ask when she didn't (the first few times) but was quickly rebutted with one reason or another and I stopped asking why. To a degree I just stopped saying it much to her at all. I thought it a lot but if I didn't say it then it didn't hurt when it was not returned.
She didn't like to be confined or touched too much. Often attempts at hugs or kisses were met with frustration but blamed on being confined. But, I didn't much care for the other alternative which was overly affectionate (I had been there before). I rationalized the lack of affection was better than the alternative of overly affectionate, so I accepted what she gave. Eventually, I stopped trying to be affectionate much. I did miss it from time to time. This was one of the harder aspects, when I felt the need for it and sought it out, only to be met normally with harsh rejection.
The lack of affection manifested itself in a very negative way most when I saw her being touchy and flirty with someone else. It frustrated me, not completely in a jealous way, but in an envious way. I wanted to be the person she was standing there laughing with and touching their arm. But, again I wrote it off to just being flirty. I never had a reason or a thought she would take it further than just being very friendly. I don't think she flirted to frustrate me, I think/thought the flirting was just a part of her generally happy and confident personality. Although, if I ever made mention of it I was faced with a totally different person. She would inform me she wasn't going to change who she was and that the fact that it bothered me was my problem. Most of the time I literally felt like it was my problem when we were done talking about it. In hindsight I think she got some satisfaction/reward out of reminding me she wasn't completely mine.
Through the years she has on many occasions accused me of following her, tracking her or invading her privacy. I blamed this on the fact that early in our relationship I used to joke with her that I was worried she wouldn't get home ok and I would kid that I was going to follow her. We never got together at her house, she came to mine, always. I never did follow her. So this is where I thought it came from all those years. Again, she never gave me huge signs or any reason not to trust her so why would I follow her? I like my privacy too, not because I have anything to hide, but I don't want to answer for every little thing either. So I just always brushed it off.
Three things always drove me nuts though. The first one seems silly that it would bother me but it did. She always walked ahead of me. Anytime we were walking anywhere she was always 2-5 steps ahead. If I would speed up she would speed up. There were times I would even jog to catch up and if I did that enough times she would simply drop behind.
The second thing that drove me nuts was/is the separate friends and eventual separation of her family. She has had some challenges with her parents and I often blamed the isolation of her family for all these years on those challenges. That sometimes they were easier to deal with alone. But, as my son has grown older and he is generally included, I began to wonder if her parents had something against me. Any questioning in this regard was met with "no they love you." But, I still only went to maybe 1 in 3 visits. As I began to question this more the visits started occurring at times when I had other plans (out of town travel by me, working late, etc.).
Her friends were kept extremely separate and through the years we have only had 1 or 2 other "couples" friends. I have found this one very difficult. The 1 or 2 other couples friends have since gone bye bye. She however has quite a few "social" friends. Some from high school, I know some of them but have only been around them a little. I refer to her newer friends as "social" as they are not people whom I think she has a deep relationship with. They are people she can go out and have a good time with. If it ever gets too deep or they get dependent on her she seems to lose interest in them. I have never met her newer friends. She does things with them from time to time. I have never pushed myself on her or her friends so I wouldn't say I have been excluded. But, I have also never ever been invited. This was particularly hard at first because over time it began to make me feel she was ashamed of me for some reason. I didn't confront her about this, but it did affect my self esteem when coupled with everything else.
The third thing that really bothered me is the lack of social media posting of anything related to our family. I'm not super active on social media but she is all the time. Constantly taking selfies of her, and our dog, and the places we go. While in her profile she acknowledges being married, and even links to my profile, other than that there is zero evidence I exist on her social media. She doesn't hide this fact from me and at times even acknowledges it. Our son makes a few appearances, more so since I pointed it out to her that one day he would look back and ask where he was in her pictures. I think this bothered me more at first, before I understood it, because like being excluded from her friends it made me feel she was embarrassed of me for some unknown reason.
So all that being said, while it wasn't perfect, in my mind it could have been a whole lot worse. I rationalized most of the anomalies off, and instead of fighting them accepted them, and was left with a relatively happy marriage to my good friend and confidant.
She started to change further from this noticeably to me about a year and a half ago. She became more distant, and obsessed with working out. Working out brought more friends and more chances to get away to social gatherings with new friends. I can't say exactly what changed, but I knew something was wrong. She seemed more distant, not just from me, but also from our son. My mind went nuts, I worried about an affair, and a plethora of other things. I began to inquire about the distance and it was met with frustration and aggravation from her. After a few months of this I awoke one morning to a conversation with her that she was moving out. She said for a short time but she has since informed me that she intended to stay gone forever. When I questioned why she was leaving the most common response was "why stay? what is there for me her?" I was quite upset by this personally, but what upset me most was telling my son his Mother was moving out. Not just telling him she was moving out but not being able to explain exactly why. I asked her about an affair and she assured me she had no interest in one and that there had not been one. She said she worried she might have one, just because she didn't feel anything anymore, but there had not been one.
She rented an apartment, I helped her get it set up with some furniture, and she started staying in it. It was hard at first but eventually I was just left confused. I wanted answers and she was not giving any. After a period of some grieving I picked myself up and decided I would be fine alone, and eventually could be happy with someone else. I didn't fear her being gone, but in the same regard she was still my best friend and the Mother of my child, and I didn't want her gone either. I started searching and reading through relationship and marriage books and eventually stumbled on Jeb's book. The book answered and explained so many things and made perfect sense of all the strange behaviors.
While in the apartment she texted me more than she did normally. The nights she stayed at the apartment, she would show back up at the house in the mornings, to help get our son ready for school and see him each day. Over the past year she has only stayed at the apartment around 60 nights. She says it is a struggle, she craves the alone time away, but when she is away she misses both of us.
Over some time, I was able to help her realize and understand some of her dismissive-avoidant behaviors. She has accepted this, and while she hasn't read the book she has listened to parts of it from me. I have seen some improvement in her over the person she was when she left. But, she is still quite a ways from the person I knew a few years ago. I could elaborate a lot more about this later. We are both back in the house together and things are going ok. But, we are both at the point where we feel she could use a third party opinion. We are both trying to decide if we should continue this, or go on our merry way. In order to do that we need to get some of the dismissive punches (as they feel to me) toned down, and some of the avoidant anxiety in her gone. We need to see if we can get to a happy median.
I think it would do her good in this regard to have a therapist. Someone that is knowledgeable in Attachment, not someone that just puts it in their credentials. Someone who can hear the behaviors, besides me, and help her understand from a non-biased standpoint, what is natural, and what is a response because she is dismissive avoidant. Someone that can help her understand how these behaviors affect others, without me seeming needy trying to help her understand. So, after this long winded lead up, I get to the question:
Has anyone had any experience with therapists and Dismissive-Avoidants? What should I look for, and what questions should I ask them? I realize treatment options are limited, but are there any that have a chance of unraveling some of the dismissive tendencies? One additional note on this is she would like to do solo therapy at first vs. any sort of couples therapy, good idea or bad idea?
Thanks in advance for any advice!
My dismissive avoidant wife is a wonderful person. She is caring (to others), hard working, determined, beautiful, and a great Mom to our 10 year old son. She has literally been my best friend for 15 years, and up until about a year ago I would have said my marriage was good. I had flexibility to work (I work a lot), I had time to myself a good bit (I enjoy it and need it from time to time), and the least needy wife known to anyone. She never got jealous, or restricted me from doing anything I wanted to do. As a result I tried to be the same way with her.
In 15 years I can probably count on one hand the number of times we actually argued. The few times things became heated it was me raising my voice in frustration (over something dismissive) and her not raising hers at all. She would simply inform me she didn't want to talk about it. At that point, the few times this occurred, I would continue to talk, justifying my point. She would sit there, with a frustrated look on her face, and once I was done that was it. The most argument I got back was "I don't want to talk about it," or "Are you done yet?" After a while I stopped trying to argue, even when I was frustrated. What's the point if no one will debate it back with you. I tend to be non-confrontational anyway so it wasn't extremely difficult.
She rarely said "I love you" and often didn't return it when I said it to her. I would ask when she didn't (the first few times) but was quickly rebutted with one reason or another and I stopped asking why. To a degree I just stopped saying it much to her at all. I thought it a lot but if I didn't say it then it didn't hurt when it was not returned.
She didn't like to be confined or touched too much. Often attempts at hugs or kisses were met with frustration but blamed on being confined. But, I didn't much care for the other alternative which was overly affectionate (I had been there before). I rationalized the lack of affection was better than the alternative of overly affectionate, so I accepted what she gave. Eventually, I stopped trying to be affectionate much. I did miss it from time to time. This was one of the harder aspects, when I felt the need for it and sought it out, only to be met normally with harsh rejection.
The lack of affection manifested itself in a very negative way most when I saw her being touchy and flirty with someone else. It frustrated me, not completely in a jealous way, but in an envious way. I wanted to be the person she was standing there laughing with and touching their arm. But, again I wrote it off to just being flirty. I never had a reason or a thought she would take it further than just being very friendly. I don't think she flirted to frustrate me, I think/thought the flirting was just a part of her generally happy and confident personality. Although, if I ever made mention of it I was faced with a totally different person. She would inform me she wasn't going to change who she was and that the fact that it bothered me was my problem. Most of the time I literally felt like it was my problem when we were done talking about it. In hindsight I think she got some satisfaction/reward out of reminding me she wasn't completely mine.
Through the years she has on many occasions accused me of following her, tracking her or invading her privacy. I blamed this on the fact that early in our relationship I used to joke with her that I was worried she wouldn't get home ok and I would kid that I was going to follow her. We never got together at her house, she came to mine, always. I never did follow her. So this is where I thought it came from all those years. Again, she never gave me huge signs or any reason not to trust her so why would I follow her? I like my privacy too, not because I have anything to hide, but I don't want to answer for every little thing either. So I just always brushed it off.
Three things always drove me nuts though. The first one seems silly that it would bother me but it did. She always walked ahead of me. Anytime we were walking anywhere she was always 2-5 steps ahead. If I would speed up she would speed up. There were times I would even jog to catch up and if I did that enough times she would simply drop behind.
The second thing that drove me nuts was/is the separate friends and eventual separation of her family. She has had some challenges with her parents and I often blamed the isolation of her family for all these years on those challenges. That sometimes they were easier to deal with alone. But, as my son has grown older and he is generally included, I began to wonder if her parents had something against me. Any questioning in this regard was met with "no they love you." But, I still only went to maybe 1 in 3 visits. As I began to question this more the visits started occurring at times when I had other plans (out of town travel by me, working late, etc.).
Her friends were kept extremely separate and through the years we have only had 1 or 2 other "couples" friends. I have found this one very difficult. The 1 or 2 other couples friends have since gone bye bye. She however has quite a few "social" friends. Some from high school, I know some of them but have only been around them a little. I refer to her newer friends as "social" as they are not people whom I think she has a deep relationship with. They are people she can go out and have a good time with. If it ever gets too deep or they get dependent on her she seems to lose interest in them. I have never met her newer friends. She does things with them from time to time. I have never pushed myself on her or her friends so I wouldn't say I have been excluded. But, I have also never ever been invited. This was particularly hard at first because over time it began to make me feel she was ashamed of me for some reason. I didn't confront her about this, but it did affect my self esteem when coupled with everything else.
The third thing that really bothered me is the lack of social media posting of anything related to our family. I'm not super active on social media but she is all the time. Constantly taking selfies of her, and our dog, and the places we go. While in her profile she acknowledges being married, and even links to my profile, other than that there is zero evidence I exist on her social media. She doesn't hide this fact from me and at times even acknowledges it. Our son makes a few appearances, more so since I pointed it out to her that one day he would look back and ask where he was in her pictures. I think this bothered me more at first, before I understood it, because like being excluded from her friends it made me feel she was embarrassed of me for some unknown reason.
So all that being said, while it wasn't perfect, in my mind it could have been a whole lot worse. I rationalized most of the anomalies off, and instead of fighting them accepted them, and was left with a relatively happy marriage to my good friend and confidant.
She started to change further from this noticeably to me about a year and a half ago. She became more distant, and obsessed with working out. Working out brought more friends and more chances to get away to social gatherings with new friends. I can't say exactly what changed, but I knew something was wrong. She seemed more distant, not just from me, but also from our son. My mind went nuts, I worried about an affair, and a plethora of other things. I began to inquire about the distance and it was met with frustration and aggravation from her. After a few months of this I awoke one morning to a conversation with her that she was moving out. She said for a short time but she has since informed me that she intended to stay gone forever. When I questioned why she was leaving the most common response was "why stay? what is there for me her?" I was quite upset by this personally, but what upset me most was telling my son his Mother was moving out. Not just telling him she was moving out but not being able to explain exactly why. I asked her about an affair and she assured me she had no interest in one and that there had not been one. She said she worried she might have one, just because she didn't feel anything anymore, but there had not been one.
She rented an apartment, I helped her get it set up with some furniture, and she started staying in it. It was hard at first but eventually I was just left confused. I wanted answers and she was not giving any. After a period of some grieving I picked myself up and decided I would be fine alone, and eventually could be happy with someone else. I didn't fear her being gone, but in the same regard she was still my best friend and the Mother of my child, and I didn't want her gone either. I started searching and reading through relationship and marriage books and eventually stumbled on Jeb's book. The book answered and explained so many things and made perfect sense of all the strange behaviors.
While in the apartment she texted me more than she did normally. The nights she stayed at the apartment, she would show back up at the house in the mornings, to help get our son ready for school and see him each day. Over the past year she has only stayed at the apartment around 60 nights. She says it is a struggle, she craves the alone time away, but when she is away she misses both of us.
Over some time, I was able to help her realize and understand some of her dismissive-avoidant behaviors. She has accepted this, and while she hasn't read the book she has listened to parts of it from me. I have seen some improvement in her over the person she was when she left. But, she is still quite a ways from the person I knew a few years ago. I could elaborate a lot more about this later. We are both back in the house together and things are going ok. But, we are both at the point where we feel she could use a third party opinion. We are both trying to decide if we should continue this, or go on our merry way. In order to do that we need to get some of the dismissive punches (as they feel to me) toned down, and some of the avoidant anxiety in her gone. We need to see if we can get to a happy median.
I think it would do her good in this regard to have a therapist. Someone that is knowledgeable in Attachment, not someone that just puts it in their credentials. Someone who can hear the behaviors, besides me, and help her understand from a non-biased standpoint, what is natural, and what is a response because she is dismissive avoidant. Someone that can help her understand how these behaviors affect others, without me seeming needy trying to help her understand. So, after this long winded lead up, I get to the question:
Has anyone had any experience with therapists and Dismissive-Avoidants? What should I look for, and what questions should I ask them? I realize treatment options are limited, but are there any that have a chance of unraveling some of the dismissive tendencies? One additional note on this is she would like to do solo therapy at first vs. any sort of couples therapy, good idea or bad idea?
Thanks in advance for any advice!
