Zack
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Post by Zack on Nov 11, 2016 17:31:05 GMT
I am curious to hear from anyone that is dismissive or has been in a long term relationship with a dismissive (in excess of 2 years) how a dismissive would describe their partner, to that partner, in terms of loving them, being in love with them, being attracted to them, having a desire to be around them, etc. I am struggling some with my own dismissive Wife's explanation of how she regards me. I believe she is being honest on a conscious level. But, I also feel like I see actions and reactions that support something entirely different. As a result I am trying to determine if the flame has truly died (or never existed to begin with) or if what I am hearing is a product of being dismissive.
I don't want to soil the responses with how my wife regards me. I will chime in with that at the end.
Thanks in advance!
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Post by Gay anxious on Nov 11, 2016 17:54:23 GMT
I was in a relationship with, I believe, and extremely dismissive man for 10 years. He had sever alexthymia, an inability to linguistically describe his emotions, he once said he experienced his emotions as swirling masses of color to which he had no ability to map language on to. Over the course of couples counseling he expressed that his love for me was out of an ever present knowledge that I was with him, even if he forgot to call or otherwise remember I existed separately from him. When he noticed my absence for a period of time he felt like he was missing something. He once even said that I completed him, a very unlikely sentiment from and avoidant and to this day I wonder if he said it purely because it's something people like to hear in our society. I had to accept that he showed his love in gifts, doing things for me, and occasionally physical affection. Verbal communication of love beyond 'I love you' was almost impossible to coax out of him. When I asked him why he loved me I only got that I was smart and attractive and after several years he added that I loved him when he was fat and didn't feel attractive(he wasn't fat, suffered from body image issues which he has gotten over by becoming ridiculously fit which I am convinced played no small role in his leaving the relationship). Loving him was hard, I know it's not what you are suppose to say but it was, and for him, loving me was hard, I was constantly angry that he pulled away, my protest tantrums were nothing I have ever experienced outside of the relationship, the insecurity and worthlessness I felt from his near constant rejection was soul crushing. I am glad from your other posts that as a secure you do not react as negatively to you wife's needs. Hopefully some dismissive a here can provide an insight more helpful.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2016 23:10:06 GMT
This is an interesting question and I'm not exactly sure what part you are looking for, but will throw some things out there. I recently had a discussion about like and love with my partner, because he is often confused about how I see things. I don't view love as a feeling, I view it as the commitment part. Love to me is saying that I am committed to him and that doesn't change or waiver. I view "liking" someone as the feeling part and that can and does change, becomes weaker and stronger at times. I sometimes have periods of feeling "indifferent" towards him. Even if I feel indifferent, I still consider that I love him.
I view the world and relationships in a more practical/logical sense rather than in an emotional way. I am not "romantic", do not verbalize love very often, do not hold hands, etc. However, if he needs something, I will move heaven and earth to get it done, we have tons of sex and we talk about everything. I would not be a good match for someone who needs lots of reassurance or affirmations of feelings. I don't talk about feelings very much, because it makes me uncomfortable and I don't really know how to describe them. However, I know that he is the best partner for me and I try my best to keep him around.
I think what a lot of people struggle with is that dismissives don't need or sometimes even want a relationship. I am perfectly fine without one and don't have that burning desire I see in a lot of people of not wanting to be alone. It could be that this "not needing people" seems like a rejection to most people. This might sound strange, but the fact that I am willing and even wanting to keep my partner around means he is ultra special to me. I know this is so very basic and a given for most, but for an avoidant it means so much more.
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Post by Jo on Nov 12, 2016 15:34:38 GMT
Hi. I have been with my partner for five years. He does love me. He has said so, but it is nearly always when distressed following a disagreement between us. As we don't tend to fall out, this isn't often. We have had one very traumatising (for both of us) 'event' when, following something quite serious, I told him that I couldn't be in a relationship with him anymore. I was very calm and logical during this event (partly because I was in shock but also because that is how I mostly am) but during this time I somehow found a way for us to work through it. In other words I stayed and gave our relationship another chance. I couldn't leave him. For about 4 weeks post this event he was the most affectionate, verbally loving, desiring man that he has ever been. I think that somehow, the trauma sort of temporarily halted his defensive / dismissive traits because he was busy working on regaining my respect for him ( which he did, and I also worked on myself too). Since then, he tries his best, but has reverted to attachment form in some respects. Because he wants us to work - I am very important to him - he will occasionally express his love in written form. He might say that I am a beautiful person (not beautiful), or that to be on the receiving end of my love is a precious thing. He tells me that I ground him, and that my moral compass makes him look at things differently. He never calls me sexy or darling etc. He has also never told me that he is in love with me. He says that he doesn't 'feel' feelings, but understands that other people (like me) do. He has also told me that as the closest person to him, it make me a very scary person. We have a physical relationship because he knows that without it I would struggle. Whilst he does like sex, his preference would be to have it in a casual relationship - ie before emotions start coming into play. However he is physically loyal to me. In a nutshell, unless emotionally distressed, he shows his love through actions, and doing things to maintain our relationship (and they are really big efforts for him as a DA) rather than words or touch. However, the latter is given to me because he wants us to work, so he swims against the tide a lot. He is very supportive and caring - but is like that to everyone, although I get a much bigger slice of it.
In turn, I am loyal, reliable, calm, compromising, reassuring and very caring. But he does test me sometimes, and I am far from perfect. However he knows that I too try my best. I also sometimes swim against the tide, but probably not to the extent that he does, as I am more secure and so giving him plenty of space, not making demands on him, and understanding his limits isn't such a big deal. We have plenty of challenges, and whilst he says that he doesn't 'need' relationships, he does a heck of a lot to keep us together. I know he loves me, because he chooses to do these things.
Happy to answer any questions if any of this resonates, Jo
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Compassionate Avoidant
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Post by Compassionate Avoidant on Feb 24, 2017 0:57:51 GMT
I can only speak for myself (and I think I lean towards avoidant), but I think sometimes for an avoidant person, a marriage where they don't feel great passion may work out better in that it gives some stability to the situation. When it comes to love, you (the not-avoidant) may be speaking a different language. In particular, if the avoidant person has the "phantom ex" or fantasy soulmate as a longterm intense sort of desire, then it may be difficult for them to know what "love" is in terms of an actual real marriage. So the avoidant person does CARE about you and the marriage, but they may not be able to identify what they feel for you as a "flame" because it is so much less intense than their fantasy.
Even if they don't carry around the fantasy, they may be compensating for having difficulty knowing how to handle strong feelings towards people. That makes it hard to say "I love you" or to even know if they love you, even if you have been married for many years.I know most people want to be "loved" (whatever that means to them) but maybe the lack of passion is the avoidant's way of not playing with fire and you as their partner get something more real and stable even if the avoidant person isn't feeling the passion for you that you wish they would feel.
Maybe that's not answering your actual question? When my partner of 15 years asks what I feel, I have no idea what to say. I just don't have the language for it. I am commited to the marriage and improving it, but it is difficult to say things like "in love" or "attracted" because the reality of my life is just too much in contrast to a fantasy realm I have also carried around my whole life. Maybe that isn't the answer you would want to hear, but you could also think of it is as her having chosen you as her actual real thing to which she is devoted the best she can be.
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Post by Rich on May 9, 2017 8:21:18 GMT
I am a dismissive avoidant, as well as an avoidant in psychological terms.... I have been married over 40 years to the same woman. Early on, I decide to be myself, and not try to fake what I am not.... I try my best to meet her needs, and to put her first....
Two writers came up with 10 laws of type, for Myers-Briggs. Number 4 is: " Type is an explanation, never an excuse. " If anyone is treating you badly, that's on them! A a practical matter, just how much of your life, are you willing waste on a person who won't treat you right?
I am a dismissive, who tries to do the right thing, even if I can't have long discussions about my " deep feelings "; whatever they might be. And no, I'm not a robot!
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Post by annieb on May 9, 2017 9:35:43 GMT
My DA had recently come out of his one and only marriage of three years, when he started seeing me. The way he described his marriage gave me chills and was the first indication he would never love me the way I needed to be loved being I am a Fearful Avoidant, but still. He said he didn't marry because of any great love, but for practical reasons. He said that the statistics are in favor for marriage and lower testosterone in men, and that married men were more successful and made more money over their lifetime. He dismissed his wife as having not worked the last five years or so, even though I am sure he provided that for her and I am guessing insisted that he took care of her. He provided a great, comfortable living for her, and that should have been enough. He said they had virtually no sex in the marriage, and I believe that was his distancing technique. During our "courtship" he started rubber banding and I believe in some ways started despising me, I could tell he was developing feelings for me that he quelled by being dismissive to me and not outright calling me names, but saying things like: "you are not very good at math, are you?" (I am very good at math). He is now completely single and has occasional sex with strangers and short term relationships that go nowhere. Our relationship has come to an end after two years, because I have finally ended it, but if it were up to him, he would see me once a month, even if he had to go through great lengths convincing me (chasing). He saw nothing of chasing, conquering and then immediately reverting back to indifference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 5:38:36 GMT
Zack I was married to a DA woman with perhaps a smidgen of FA in her. Was married 14 years. Still tied mercilessly to her via children. It will all kill me yet. Whoopee. I started out a pathetic anxious fool. My mother had all but abandoned me at age six. Actually, she had a psychotic breakdown and was never the same. Who knew back then what that was gonna turn me into, right? So I eventually meet this woman, and I don't know it, but she comes from parents who seem ultra normal and nice but in reality, they never ever showed any affection for this woman. These people truly are "whistle past the graveyard" types, always pleasant, and utterly incapable of depth. It was hellishly perverse perfection: Me acting pathetic, thinking I needed a super nurturing woman to "rescue" me, and her going into hyperactive lovebombing mode to pretend to be something she wasn't. After tremendous Kafkaesque suffering, I eventually gained knowledge of this problem, and my problem, and reduced my expectations of intimacy with my DA wife to something much more resembling normal levels. But it didn't matter. About two quasi-almost-intimate moments every half decade or so is all she can handle or else her circuits fry out and she's gone again. Still here, but gone. Anyway, as to your question: My ex, and the one I still mercilessly tied to via the children, I remember on a FEW occasions, she would speak of loving me, and using the actual word love. However, if it was a plain declaration of love to be taken seriously and not a glib remark, then she only ever would state that when she had witnesses. Never with me alone. I realize now she was "working the crowd," so to speak. I just noted at the time how monotone her voice was, and how unusually forced and deliberate her speech was when she was saying the words--and she is an extrovert that otherwise is very gregarious and verbally adept. So her verbal affirmations of love for me: she could say the glib, meaningless "I love you"s as you're saying goodbye to go to work or whatever, but giving a serious verbal declaration of love was another story. And her actions, her total ungratefulness for no matter how hard I worked for her, and her total alienating me whenever I should get ill---hey, actions do speak louder than words, don't they?
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Post by howpredictable on Oct 2, 2017 16:35:21 GMT
So I eventually meet this woman, and I don't know it, but she comes from parents who seem ultra normal and nice but in reality, they never ever showed any affection for this woman. These people truly are "whistle past the graveyard" types, always pleasant, and utterly incapable of depth. ............... So her verbal affirmations of love for me: she could say the glib, meaningless "I love you"s as you're saying goodbye to go to work or whatever, but giving a serious verbal declaration of love was another story. And her actions, her total ungratefulness for no matter how hard I worked for her, and her total alienating me whenever I should get ill---hey, actions do speak louder than words, don't they? Hey Trinn. Welcome to the boards. I have read what you have posted so far, and while you seem to be very commendably self-aware of your own issues, and also of the possible origin of your Ex's DA nature, you seem to have a lot of anger for her or the situation. If you do understand that nature of Avoidance and your own inexorable attraction to it -- which you seem to -- then I'm curious as to why the (apparent) lack of compassion.
Not attacking or criticizing you, by the way. Just curious about what seems to be a disjoint in the various parts of what you have written here so far.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 18:02:27 GMT
So I eventually meet this woman, and I don't know it, but she comes from parents who seem ultra normal and nice but in reality, they never ever showed any affection for this woman. These people truly are "whistle past the graveyard" types, always pleasant, and utterly incapable of depth. ............... So her verbal affirmations of love for me: she could say the glib, meaningless "I love you"s as you're saying goodbye to go to work or whatever, but giving a serious verbal declaration of love was another story. And her actions, her total ungratefulness for no matter how hard I worked for her, and her total alienating me whenever I should get ill---hey, actions do speak louder than words, don't they? Hey Trinn. Welcome to the boards. I have read what you have posted so far, and while you seem to be very commendably self-aware of your own issues, and also of the possible origin of your Ex's DA nature, you seem to have a lot of anger for her or the situation. If you do understand that nature of Avoidance and your own inexorable attraction to it -- which you seem to -- then I'm curious as to why the (apparent) lack of compassion.
Not attacking or criticizing you, by the way. Just curious about what seems to be a disjoint in the various parts of what you have written here so far.
I write with a flamethrower because of how this has affected our children. I write with a flamethrower because I have already been financially ruined once by this cycle, and I am about to be financially wiped clean again. Long story. But having children together means you're stuck. Stuck. Stuck. I'd bail this second, I'd have already bailed. But I had children with her. I write with a flamethrower because the counseling process we went through, just like the family court system, was brutally gynocentric: I was the bad guy going in, because I was the guy, you see. I write with a flamethrower because on top of the gynocentrism in our society, my DA ex is superbly skilled at ingratiating herself upon society and friends. She can outtalk me, out ingratiate me, and unlike me she can turn on the waterworks at will until everybody and their uncle assumes it's all my fault, counselors included. Hey, I lived it. I know. I write with a flamethrower because, although I am aware I am a recovering fearful anxious type, my ex remains in complete denial, and nobody who does not charge hundreds or even multiple thousands of dollars is knowledgeable or willing to confront her and call her out on her half of it. Sure, I'm attracted to it. And now I'm just attracted to an early death because I am stuck in this mess. I had children with her.
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