jixx
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Post by jixx on Jul 6, 2018 12:39:45 GMT
Hi everyone,
This is my first time posting here but I felt like I had too as it seems the best place to get advice from people who have actually experienced what you are going through. I'll try and tell my story quickly:
I was with my boyfriend for 2 years and I thought we were happy and were making plans for the year ahead. We live in a foreign country that is neither of our home countries and at the start of this year we had a few hiccups when he told me he was going to buy a house in this country (we had previously discussed leaving but hadn't made any solid plans but I didn't know he had the intention to stay long term) and naturally I was upset because he didn't discuss it with me - he made the decision for himself and his future. To make matters worse, he told that in fact his current flatmate was also going to buy a house and they would live in one and rent the other. Another blow...not only did he make the decision to stay in this country without me, he basically shut down any opportunity of us living together and building a future as a couple. We had several arguments about this but seemed to moving on from it and everything seemed okay. We were planning to visit his mother in his home country in the coming months (because after 2 years I never met her) and we were planning to visit my home (he has met my family and even went on holiday with us).
Anyway, after he spent a lot of time in his home country this year due to health reasons, he came back from a weekend away and didn't seem himself but assured me it was just a moment and it would pass. He never talks about his problems and often reminds me of how he takes on everyone else's stress but never gives it to others. He keeps everything in until the point where he explodes and then needs to spend time alone. I could see something was really bothering him so took him out and tried to be as understanding as possible. It was at this point he revealed to me he was unsure about his future and because of that he didn't know how he could see me in when he didn't know what he wanted. I was devastated. This came out of the blue for me. After 2 days of intense conversations (for the first time ever) about how he is so unsure about what he wants in life, his job, where to live, the house etc he told me he felt like he needed to be alone but if he realises he made a mistake he will find me again (?!). I told him he should take a break and we can meet up again in a few weeks - but he was clear to tell me he couldn't guarantee me anything and didn't want to message at all. After three weeks of emotional turmoil and then daily messages from him we met up and he told me he wanted to be with me but I was 'too stressful' putting 'too much pressure' and he didn't want to get married or live together anytime soon. We agreed to work on the relationship and try to move forward.
Two days later, he pulls me out of work on my lunch break...has a complete meltdown, crying...telling me he can't eat, sleep, he's so anxious and he never felt like this and he didn't have the energy for the relationship and swiftly ended it again. Within a week he had bought his house and was ignoring me completely. We work together too (just add salt in the wound) and I told him ignoring me was unacceptable but he let me know it's because for him it is now over and he doesn't want to give me any wrong impressions but he had 'a great time with me' and now it is time for him to 'live his life'. He was so matter of fact. Since then he's been up and down...messaging me at midnight on my birthday then shouting at me in the office about the most ridiculous thing. I don't know how to behave or how to move on. It's like the person I was with has disappeared and has been replaced by someone else.
Looking back now I'm starting to notice some dismissive avoidant behaviours in him: - non committal - criticising me - not introducing me to friends/family - not opening up about issues - reminding me constantly he needs time alone and if we've spent 'too many' days together - being fiercely independent and needing to do things alone to build a life for himself - having to figure out his problems alone....the list goes on
My point of this post was just to get some advice - is this man a dismissive avoidant? How can you move on from this? Do I need to go no contact? Will he ever realise or change?
Reading all your stories has helped me realise I'm not alone which is giving me some comfort, but the daily struggle still continues.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2018 12:58:13 GMT
Hi, I'm sorry you've had this experience.
I'm dismissive, i've worked a long way toward being secure.
From what you shared, i would say he sounds dismissive- whatever label we put on it, he has clearly opted out of a future with you.
I know that this has been devastating.
As you look at the red flags you listed , you may see yourself tolerating behaviors that are questionable yet considering a future with him anyway.
That's what insecurely attached people do, on both sides of the equation.
So, if you take a look at your part in the dynamic you might see how both of you built a house on sand.
The point of what i am saying is not to shame you or be insensitive to your pain, but to encourage you to see how you might have put yourself in a position with a non -commital man that has caused you a great deal of pain, so that you can understand your own inner mechanisms and repair them to avoid this in the future.
We've all been really burned, all of us of different attachment styles have suffered a lot of pain in our relationships.
As to your question- will he change- totally unlikely he will pull some amazing reversal and become the man you'd like him to be so you guys can just move forward and be together.
As for how to cope- getting support is helpful, as you move through the stages of grief with this. Accepting his decision to end the relationship is difficult but ultimately what you will need to do to heal and move forward.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2018 13:02:59 GMT
by the way-
the strange contact you are receiving from him
may be angry or passive aggressive contact because you told him it is not acceptable to ignore you.
breakups with someone you work with are awful and awkward.
lots of people really prefer to go no contact for a time even if they are the one who ended it, to deal with any issues in themselves around the breakup and get some breathing room for their new beginning.
unfortunately, it may take some time for things to die down.
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jixx
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Post by jixx on Jul 6, 2018 14:16:03 GMT
Hi Juniper, thanks for your reply. It is comforting to hear from someone who identifies as dismissive. I totally appreciate the feedback you have given and I have actually recently started going to therapy for some own self reflection on my low self esteem and insecurity so I can try to move more towards secure to help me build better relationships in the future. What upsets me most is he has known my intentions all along and I have been very understanding about him taking things a pace in which he feels comfortable. It just feels like it reached a point where a more serious step in the relationship was approaching...living together, meeting the mother and for him it couldn't go on any longer. During our break he told me he wanted to be sure that he was ready and that the problem wasn't me, he wanted to be sure 'in general' if he was ready to commit. But that all turned around once he decided to end it and he began to push all the blame on me...maybe it was easier that way, I don't know. He even told me I was being catastrophic for telling him I was re-evaluating a lot of where I thought my life was going. Total lack of acknowledgement. Now I am just trying to keep small talk when I see him at work but he's so hot and cold I never know what to expect. Can I ask what happened to make you realise that you may be dismissive and motivate you to change? And would you have felt any remorse/regret after a break up? Thank you  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2018 14:40:13 GMT
Hi Juniper, thanks for your reply. It is comforting to hear from someone who identifies as dismissive. I totally appreciate the feedback you have given and I have actually recently started going to therapy for some own self reflection on my low self esteem and insecurity so I can try to move more towards secure to help me build better relationships in the future. What upsets me most is he has known my intentions all along and I have been very understanding about him taking things a pace in which he feels comfortable. It just feels like it reached a point where a more serious step in the relationship was approaching...living together, meeting the mother and for him it couldn't go on any longer. During our break he told me he wanted to be sure that he was ready and that the problem wasn't me, he wanted to be sure 'in general' if he was ready to commit. But that all turned around once he decided to end it and he began to push all the blame on me...maybe it was easier that way, I don't know. He even told me I was being catastrophic for telling him I was re-evaluating a lot of where I thought my life was going. Total lack of acknowledgement. Now I am just trying to keep small talk when I see him at work but he's so hot and cold I never know what to expect. Can I ask what happened to make you realise that you may be dismissive and motivate you to change? And would you have felt any remorse/regret after a break up? Thank you understanding your own dysfunctional relationship habits, and where they originated, is the key to your healing. And, as for me. my story is on these boards somewhat. Attachment wounds come from trauma in early childhood, generally. I didn't change, not for any partner, not to meet someone else's needs or expectations of me. I didn't change. I HEALED. From intense trauma. My awakening came over years of internal work, coming to know myself. For myself. I am emphasizing the self aspect here to steer you away from any wishful thinking that he would "change" for you. not assuming you have that mentality, but it's not uncommon for a partner to want a dismissive to "change" to meet their own needs (which is selfish). A dismissive heals for the same reasons anyone else would- to come to a better relationship with themselves, to reconcile deep wounds, to transform horrible pain, to understand themselves and how they fit into the fabric of life, etc. When a dismissive heals, then they can possibly venture forth to forge a mutual relationship with someone. But the first and most important task at hand is to heal their wounds that they feel pain about. When i break up, it's for good reasons. i might have a variety of mixed feelings, but if i know i made the right choice for my future, underpinning it all will be a sense of relief. people who are insecure in attachment are typically full of conflicts, and ultimately, i will choose the route i can best manage to move on with my life in the direction i want to go in, as it appears your former partner did. I wouldn't go crawling back in remorse or regret, no. If i leave a relationship it's for dang sure because that relationship isn't what i wanted and i finally figured that out. . the only time i have had second thoughts and difficulty letting go has been with my most recent partner, because external factors played such a huge part in our inability to proceed. It wasn't that either of us wanted it to end. It wasn't that we were incompatible. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 13:47:17 GMT
i wanted to come back to this and express a little more about breakups.
breakups happen when a relationship isn't working, for one or both parties.
a common theme, when a dismissive is involved, is to blame the dismissive or make the dismissive the "bad guy".
i'm not sure that's what's going on in this thread, although it has a hint of that.
what i see, is that the dismissive in the picture often is expressing hesitation, doubt, and concern about their ability or desire to commit to the relationship.
they show this in words and in actions.
they are often ignored by a partner who is dead set on making it work according to their own wishes.
Dismissives voice their inner conflicts, at some point.
They aren't taken seriously. I mean, there will be fights, there will be arguments and deep discussions, but ultimately, it seems the partner of the dismissive has a firm agenda to move the relationship to commitment and believes if they just accommodate, be patient, and ignore the dismissive's actions and words, the dismissive will come around and give the partner what they want.
Ultimately, no person should acquiesce to a relationship or a situation that doesn't align with what their personal values, goals, and agenda for their own life is. Partners of dismissive do that when they commit internally to a person who isn't committing to them. The dismissive usually is not inclined to acquiesce this way and typically leaves the relationship.
It's messy, sure- but who is responsible? both parties are. both parties were concerned primarily with their own needs and ideas and agendas. many assumptions were made, both sides. many red flags ignored, both sides. selfish behavior,, both sides. inner conflicts, both sides. emotional unavailability, both sides. dissatisfaction, both sides. anger and resentment, both sides. sadness and disappointment, both sides. Incompatibility, both sides.
Ultimately, i leave a relationship if it does not align with my personal values, desires, ambitions, priorities, needs, happiness. I count it as an opportunity to learn and grow and understand myself better. Any dismissive has this right and personal freedom to leave a relationship that doesn't suit them, do they not?
If a partner leaves a dismissive, i assume it would be for the same fundamental reasons- the relationship with the dismissive did not align with the individuals personal values, desires, ambitions, priorities, needs, or happiness. It's an opportunity to learn and grow and understand oneself better. The partner has the right and personal freedom (and responsibility !) to leave a relationship that doesn't suit them.
The inclination of a dismissive is to leave if it doesn't suit.
the inclination of an anxious person is to hold on, even if it doesn't suit. two different ways of approaching a problematic relationship. ultimately, each will have to walk their own path and make the best decisions they can to achieve what is most important to them, as individuals.
there is no obligation to stay in a relationship that doesn't meet your needs, not for a dismissive, not for a partner.
what i am reading here is that this dismissive took his inner conflict seriously and voiced that, but the partner did not.
ultimately, the dismissive chose with integrity to himself. and that's ok. had the partner chosen with integrity to herself, this situation may have ended long ago.
and, if a partner with low self esteeem and insecurity believes they give "good relationship" while a dismissive gives "bad relationship" , they are truly mistaken. They are half the dysfunction. there's no bad guy. just two wounded people trying to figure stuff out.
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Post by ocarina on Jul 7, 2018 14:24:31 GMT
i wanted to come back to this and express a little more about breakups. breakups happen when a relationship isn't working, for one or both parties. a common theme, when a dismissive is involved, is to blame the dismissive or make the dismissive the "bad guy". i'm not sure that's what's going on in this thread, although it has a hint of that. what i see, is that the dismissive in the picture often is expressing hesitation, doubt, and concern about their ability or desire to commit to the relationship. they show this in words and in actions. they are often ignored by a partner who is dead set on making it work according to their own wishes. Dismissives voice their inner conflicts, at some point. They aren't taken seriously. I mean, there will be fights, there will be arguments and deep discussions, but ultimately, it seems the partner of the dismissive has a firm agenda to move the relationship to commitment and believes if they just accommodate, be patient, and ignore the dismissive's actions and words, the dismissive will come around and give the partner what they want. Ultimately, no person should acquiesce to a relationship or a situation that doesn't align with what their personal values, goals, and agenda for their own life is. Partners of dismissive do that when they commit internally to a person who isn't committing to them. The dismissive usually is not inclined to acquiesce this way and typically leaves the relationship. It's messy, sure- but who is responsible? both parties are. both parties were concerned primarily with their own needs and ideas and agendas. many assumptions were made, both sides. many red flags ignored, both sides. selfish behavior,, both sides. inner conflicts, both sides. emotional unavailability, both sides. dissatisfaction, both sides. anger and resentment, both sides. sadness and disappointment, both sides. Incompatibility, both sides. Ultimately, i leave a relationship if it does not align with my personal values, desires, ambitions, priorities, needs, happiness. I count it as an opportunity to learn and grow and understand myself better. Any dismissive has this right and personal freedom to leave a relationship that doesn't suit them, do they not? If a partner leaves a dismissive, i assume it would be for the same fundamental reasons- the relationship with the dismissive did not align with the individuals personal values, desires, ambitions, priorities, needs, or happiness. It's an opportunity to learn and grow and understand oneself better. The partner has the right and personal freedom (and responsibility !) to leave a relationship that doesn't suit them. The inclination of a dismissive is to leave if it doesn't suit. the inclination of an anxious person is to hold on, even if it doesn't suit. two different ways of approaching a problematic relationship. ultimately, each will have to walk their own path and make the best decisions they can to achieve what is most important to them, as individuals. there is no obligation to stay in a relationship that doesn't meet your needs, not for a dismissive, not for a partner. what i am reading here is that this dismissive took his inner conflict seriously and voiced that, but the partner did not. ultimately, the dismissive chose with integrity to himself. and that's ok. had the partner chosen with integrity to herself, this situation may have ended long ago. and, if a partner with low self esteeem and insecurity believes they give "good relationship" while a dismissive gives "bad relationship" , they are truly mistaken. They are half the dysfunction. there's no bad guy. just two wounded people trying to figure stuff out. This is really really good - one of the hardest things is that it seems as though often attachment style only really comes to light somewhat down the line and thus both partners are left thinking that their loved one has turned into someone else - the AP into a clingy, difficult and manipulative needy human, the DA into a cold, dismissive, uncaring one. The FA I guess into a confusing maelstrom of both! Really difficult stuff - but unless both parties are willing and able to look at their own part in this then someone or possibly both are doomed to misery, resentment and suffering. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 15:15:19 GMT
the desired outcomes for these dysfunctional relationships is totally unrealistic and that might be good priority- examine the expectations of the parties in light of the attachment styles of both partners.
seeing things as they truly are instead of how we wish them to be is the first step toward liberation from our own flawed thinking.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 7, 2018 16:13:53 GMT
Juniper..I really, really liked your post....and the fact that I liked it actually speaks to a ton of growth in me because before I would have taken it personally and would have read judgement into it...now I see wisdom.....huge improvement for me. Thank you.
As a self professed and Jeb test certified AP....I think part of the issue lies in the fact that there is a tendency to misinterpret another person's actions and words through our own attachment style. I know I have been guilty of looking at time apart as a desire to distance when really..it is healthy for partners to have time apart and time together. It was on my shoulders to communicate effectively what concerned me and I know I did not do that fearing his perceived reaction but then being miserable because I had not addressed things...so that stress was my own doing. Put another way: If I fear he is distancing, but never speak to it...how can I blame him for something that I have labeled but never validated is true.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 21:46:56 GMT
Juniper..I really, really liked your post....and the fact that I liked it actually speaks to a ton of growth in me because before I would have taken it personally and would have read judgement into it...now I see wisdom.....huge improvement for me. Thank you. As a self professed and Jeb test certified AP....I think part of the issue lies in the fact that there is a tendency to misinterpret another person's actions and words through our own attachment style. I know I have been guilty of looking at time apart as a desire to distance when really..it is healthy for partners to have time apart and time together. It was on my shoulders to communicate effectively what concerned me and I know I did not do that fearing his perceived reaction but then being miserable because I had not addressed things...so that stress was my own doing. Put another way: If I fear he is distancing, but never speak to it...how can I blame him for something that I have labeled but never validated is true. i get it- this is something i spoke to on another thread also. if we get too much into analyzing someone according to our understanding of THEIR attachment style, instead of keeping within our lane and developing our own authenticity and vulnerability, then we can make a lot of assumptions, judgements etc according to the Attachment Template. Emotional availability on our part involves communicating, both in expressing and listening. and being real and authentic, ourselves. THAT IS A TALL ORDER. I don't think it leave much room for getting inside someone else's head too much. maybe a little, it happens. but the focus needs to come back home for sure. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Jul 8, 2018 0:18:57 GMT
i get it- this is something i spoke to on another thread also. if we get too much into analyzing someone according to our understanding of THEIR attachment style, instead of keeping within our lane and developing our own authenticity and vulnerability, then we can make a lot of assumptions, judgements etc according to the Attachment Template. Emotional availability on our part involves communicating, both in expressing and listening. and being real and authentic, ourselves. THAT IS A TALL ORDER. I don't think it leave much room for getting inside someone else's head too much. maybe a little, it happens. but the focus needs to come back home for sure.
So true about *listening*- this is something it took me a long time to see. One can spend forever trying to speculate or analyze (and I am a very analytical person) and may also project onto other people, when the best route would have been to just listen. There are times I look back at and wish I had just said "Tell me more about that..." or responded more genuinely, instead of reacting in a way that harms a relationship, or pretending not to care since it seemed the other person didn't care, or distancing out of fear of getting hurt...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 0:30:54 GMT
i get it- this is something i spoke to on another thread also. if we get too much into analyzing someone according to our understanding of THEIR attachment style, instead of keeping within our lane and developing our own authenticity and vulnerability, then we can make a lot of assumptions, judgements etc according to the Attachment Template. Emotional availability on our part involves communicating, both in expressing and listening. and being real and authentic, ourselves. THAT IS A TALL ORDER. I don't think it leave much room for getting inside someone else's head too much. maybe a little, it happens. but the focus needs to come back home for sure.
So true about *listening*- this is something it took me a long time to see. One can spend forever trying to speculate or analyze (and I am a very analytical person) and may also project onto other people, when the best route would have been to just listen. There are times I look back at and wish I had just said "Tell me more about that..." or responded more genuinely, instead of reacting in a way that harms a relationship, or pretending not to care since it seemed the other person didn't care, or distancing out of fear of getting hurt...
it's so powerful to learn how to listen. it's the foundation of loving someone. the past year with my former partner was a big exercise in this for me, i made it my intention and grew a lot. so did he. and listening to myself is key also. liatening to what is going on inside of me and looking for insight into my own workings. "i listen to you." is a much more powerful phrase , to me,than "i love you" because there is no confusion about what it means and everyone knows very much what a relief and a gift it is to be listened to. it's not ambiguous or tainted, it's really pure. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Jul 8, 2018 0:38:13 GMT
In my previous reply I meant literally listening, but what you just wrote makes me think about how it's also metaphoric. People say that kids tell you what they need-- not literally necessarily but based on their actions, etc-- and as a parent I think I get that. When the household is not peaceful, I look at it holistically, try to figure out why and what I need to do as a parent, how I need to "listen" to what is really going on...
Friendships and romances are different than parenting, but it probably is true we get so caught up in our own feelings, needs and desires that we aren't really seeing the other person and we're not "hearing" them even when we think we are listening.
Also what you posted reminds me of the concept of "holding space" which I've only read a few articles on, but it's an intriguing concept.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 0:43:47 GMT
In my previous reply I meant literally listening, but what you just wrote makes me think about how it's also metaphoric. People say that kids tell you what they need-- not literally necessarily but based on their actions, etc-- and as a parent I think I get that. When the household is not peaceful, I look at it holistically, try to figure out why and what I need to do as a parent, how I need to "listen" to what is really going on... Friendships and romances are different than parenting, but it probably is true we get so caught up in our own feelings, needs and desires that we aren't really seeing the other person and we're not "hearing" them even when we think we are listening. Also what you posted reminds me of the concept of "holding space" which I've only read a few articles on, but it's an intriguing concept. yes i agree with this- thevpoint of listening is to truly understand. so listening is very good literally. and also good metaphorically, but what is gathered through that should be tested by questions for clarity. i think it is best to lead with questions instead of assumptions made through metaphorical listening, so that a person has an opportunity to represent themselves first without having to correct or be hurt by any assumption or misunderstanding. our perceptions can be so biased. having grown up in a very destabiliing home and having to learn how to communicate clearly and question perceptions, i go to literal listening first, it's most reliable! i communicate very clearly and with vulnerability when i am aware, i have moments of unconsciousness of course- and the dynamic in my relationships of all kinds has grown to mutual listening with care. |
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jixx
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Post by jixx on Jul 9, 2018 7:20:26 GMT
i wanted to come back to this and express a little more about breakups. breakups happen when a relationship isn't working, for one or both parties. a common theme, when a dismissive is involved, is to blame the dismissive or make the dismissive the "bad guy". i'm not sure that's what's going on in this thread, although it has a hint of that. what i see, is that the dismissive in the picture often is expressing hesitation, doubt, and concern about their ability or desire to commit to the relationship. they show this in words and in actions. they are often ignored by a partner who is dead set on making it work according to their own wishes. Dismissives voice their inner conflicts, at some point. They aren't taken seriously. I mean, there will be fights, there will be arguments and deep discussions, but ultimately, it seems the partner of the dismissive has a firm agenda to move the relationship to commitment and believes if they just accommodate, be patient, and ignore the dismissive's actions and words, the dismissive will come around and give the partner what they want. Ultimately, no person should acquiesce to a relationship or a situation that doesn't align with what their personal values, goals, and agenda for their own life is. Partners of dismissive do that when they commit internally to a person who isn't committing to them. The dismissive usually is not inclined to acquiesce this way and typically leaves the relationship. It's messy, sure- but who is responsible? both parties are. both parties were concerned primarily with their own needs and ideas and agendas. many assumptions were made, both sides. many red flags ignored, both sides. selfish behavior,, both sides. inner conflicts, both sides. emotional unavailability, both sides. dissatisfaction, both sides. anger and resentment, both sides. sadness and disappointment, both sides. Incompatibility, both sides. Ultimately, i leave a relationship if it does not align with my personal values, desires, ambitions, priorities, needs, happiness. I count it as an opportunity to learn and grow and understand myself better. Any dismissive has this right and personal freedom to leave a relationship that doesn't suit them, do they not? If a partner leaves a dismissive, i assume it would be for the same fundamental reasons- the relationship with the dismissive did not align with the individuals personal values, desires, ambitions, priorities, needs, or happiness. It's an opportunity to learn and grow and understand oneself better. The partner has the right and personal freedom (and responsibility !) to leave a relationship that doesn't suit them. The inclination of a dismissive is to leave if it doesn't suit. the inclination of an anxious person is to hold on, even if it doesn't suit. two different ways of approaching a problematic relationship. ultimately, each will have to walk their own path and make the best decisions they can to achieve what is most important to them, as individuals. there is no obligation to stay in a relationship that doesn't meet your needs, not for a dismissive, not for a partner. what i am reading here is that this dismissive took his inner conflict seriously and voiced that, but the partner did not. ultimately, the dismissive chose with integrity to himself. and that's ok. had the partner chosen with integrity to herself, this situation may have ended long ago. and, if a partner with low self esteeem and insecurity believes they give "good relationship" while a dismissive gives "bad relationship" , they are truly mistaken. They are half the dysfunction. there's no bad guy. just two wounded people trying to figure stuff out. Wow...thanks for taking the time to write this, it is very enlightening. What you said about an opportunity to understand yourself better really struck a chord. |
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