|
Post by notalone on Aug 10, 2018 17:47:13 GMT
My friend just called me and told me she misses me. We chatted for a bit, and when we hung up a bunch of pretty uncomfortable emotions came up for me. I felt sad, awkward, and like her feelings can’t possibly be about me, she must just be lonely or something. Or maybe she just doesn’t know me enough to realize who I really am. Then I thought about all this stuff I’ve read about AP lately, and it hit me. It’s been a really long time since I’ve felt loved, missed or valuable, and I realize there’s a part of me that doesn’t believe I am worthy of any of those feelings. If I'm really honest, I’ve always found insecurity pretty unattractive and kind of annoying, I don't ever admit that to anyone because it sounds dickish frankly, and I think I never let myself acknowledge that I feel this way inside because I really don’t like it about myself. But if I’m real and honest about it, yeah, this is what’s in there. This is the work right? Noticing this stuff? It’s so uncomfortable. Any suggestions on how to actually change these beliefs and feelings? If not it’s ok I’m in therapy, but if you have suggestions my all means, I really want to change this about myself. Bla!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 18:01:50 GMT
My friend just called me and told me she misses me. We chatted for a bit, and when we hung up a bunch of pretty uncomfortable emotions came up for me. I felt sad, awkward, and like her feelings can’t possibly be about me, she must just be lonely or something. Or maybe she just doesn’t know me enough to realize who I really am. Then I thought about all this stuff I’ve read about AP lately, and it hit me. It’s been a really long time since I’ve felt loved, missed or valuable, and I realize there’s a part of me that doesn’t believe I am worthy of any of those feelings. If I'm really honest, I’ve always found insecurity pretty unattractive and kind of annoying, I don't ever admit that to anyone because it sounds dickish frankly, and I think I never let myself acknowledge that I feel this way inside because I really don’t like it about myself. But if I’m real and honest about it, yeah, this is what’s in there. This is the work right? Noticing this stuff? It’s so uncomfortable. Any suggestions on how to actually change these beliefs and feelings? If not it’s ok I’m in therapy, but if you have suggestions my all means, I really want to change this about myself. Bla! this is the work! i'm so sorry that you feel this way, but from what i read, it is a very painful part of the AP narrative , that when real love and intimacy is offered, an AP is unable to receive it and instead deflects like that. When love is offered to me, i have deflected also believing that to trust it makes me too vulnerable- it must be a trick to get something from me. Neither perspective is generous or gracious to those who love us. All i can say is that it makes me sad that you feel this way and i don't know how to help, specifically, other than to say that this awareness is really good for you, so you can recognize the lies of your conditioning and hopefully start finding the truth about yourself, which is a much more gracious and generous truth than you are accustomed to. 🌸
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 19:05:31 GMT
My friend just called me and told me she misses me. We chatted for a bit, and when we hung up a bunch of pretty uncomfortable emotions came up for me. I felt sad, awkward, and like her feelings can’t possibly be about me, she must just be lonely or something. Or maybe she just doesn’t know me enough to realize who I really am. Then I thought about all this stuff I’ve read about AP lately, and it hit me. It’s been a really long time since I’ve felt loved, missed or valuable, and I realize there’s a part of me that doesn’t believe I am worthy of any of those feelings. If I'm really honest, I’ve always found insecurity pretty unattractive and kind of annoying, I don't ever admit that to anyone because it sounds dickish frankly, and I think I never let myself acknowledge that I feel this way inside because I really don’t like it about myself. But if I’m real and honest about it, yeah, this is what’s in there. This is the work right? Noticing this stuff? It’s so uncomfortable. Any suggestions on how to actually change these beliefs and feelings? If not it’s ok I’m in therapy, but if you have suggestions my all means, I really want to change this about myself. Bla! this is the work! i'm so sorry that you feel this way, but from what i read, it is a very painful part of the AP narrative , that when real love and intimacy is offered, an AP is unable to receive it and instead deflects like that. When love is offered to me, i have deflected also believing that to trust it makes me too vulnerable- it must be a trick to get something from me. Neither perspective is generous or gracious to those who love us. All i can say is that it makes me sad that you feel this way and i don't know how to help, specifically, other than to say that this awareness is really good for you, so you can recognize the lies of your conditioning and hopefully start finding the truth about yourself, which is a much more gracious and generous truth than you are accustomed to. 🌸 As a recovering AP, I wouldn't say that I have / am unable to receive real love / intimacy nor deflected it...?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 19:29:49 GMT
notalone, the first paragraph of Jeb's article on anxious preoccupied type addresses that inability to believe that you are truly loved, and tnr9 posted a thread about ambivalent attachment and the Heller Test that mentions it- does it resonate with what this brought up for you? here's that article- jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/i think Jeb does offer tips but he also recommends a book on his website about transforming from anxious to secure- if you look around on his main site he links to it.
|
|
|
Post by happyidiot on Aug 10, 2018 21:12:26 GMT
this is the work! i'm so sorry that you feel this way, but from what i read, it is a very painful part of the AP narrative , that when real love and intimacy is offered, an AP is unable to receive it and instead deflects like that. When love is offered to me, i have deflected also believing that to trust it makes me too vulnerable- it must be a trick to get something from me. Neither perspective is generous or gracious to those who love us. All i can say is that it makes me sad that you feel this way and i don't know how to help, specifically, other than to say that this awareness is really good for you, so you can recognize the lies of your conditioning and hopefully start finding the truth about yourself, which is a much more gracious and generous truth than you are accustomed to. 🌸 As a recovering AP, I wouldn't say that I have / am unable to receive real love / intimacy nor deflected it...? Does any of this sound familiar to you? I have a history of not trusting people, deflecting compliments, apologizing too much, being suspicious when someone acts enthusiastic about me quickly, not allowing people to give to me, feeling like I can't tell them how I feel... It all stems from feeling undeserving. Specific examples are things like someone would try to buy me dinner and I would insist on paying my share, or my boss would say, "Good job on that presentation," and I'd say, "Oh I made so many mistakes, I could have done much better," or someone would ask me how I was doing and listen to my problems and I'd say, "I'm sorry for talking so much about this." And I still often have a tough time talking to people about what I want/need or how I feel for them. Recently I told someone I felt like I had to be perfect in order to be loved and they said, "I think you are perfect," and it made me so uncomfortable. I often fear that people will say/do things just to be "nice" that they don't mean, and sometimes they DO, which only reinforces my worry that I can't take it at face value when someone is nice to me.
|
|
|
Post by notalone on Aug 11, 2018 0:04:07 GMT
As a recovering AP, I wouldn't say that I have / am unable to receive real love / intimacy nor deflected it...? Does any of this sound familiar to you? I have a history of not trusting people, deflecting compliments, apologizing too much, being suspicious when someone acts enthusiastic about me quickly, not allowing people to give to me, feeling like I can't tell them how I feel... It all stems from feeling undeserving. Specific examples are things like someone would try to buy me dinner and I would insist on paying my share, or my boss would say, "Good job on that presentation," and I'd say, "Oh I made so many mistakes, I could have done much better," or someone would ask me how I was doing and listen to my problems and I'd say, "I'm sorry for talking so much about this." And I still often have a tough time talking to people about what I want/need or how I feel for them. Recently I told someone I felt like I had to be perfect in order to be loved and they said, "I think you are perfect," and it made me so uncomfortable. I often fear that people will say/do things just to be "nice" that they don't mean, and sometimes they DO, which only reinforces my worry that I can't take it at face value when someone is nice to me. Yes, a lot of that sounds familiar.
|
|
|
Post by notalone on Aug 11, 2018 0:11:17 GMT
notalone , the first paragraph of Jeb's article on anxious preoccupied type addresses that inability to believe that you are truly loved, and tnr9 posted a thread about ambivalent attachment and the Heller Test that mentions it- does it resonate with what this brought up for you? here's that article- jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/i think Jeb does offer tips but he also recommends a book on his website about transforming from anxious to secure- if you look around on his main site he links to it. I'm not familiar with the Heller test. I've read the article and the book, and I've done a lot of the exercises. Actually, the book is the reason I stopped dating the last guy (who I'm99% sure is DA), and also the reason I looked up attachment and found this forum. According to the book I'm supposed to notice when I experience these feelings and beliefs and challenge them (it's very CBT), it's just hard because they feel so true. What I don't know how to do is how to convince myself they're not true.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 1:15:59 GMT
ok going to possibly suck at this, and i am sorry if i am off key. I don't really understand it, but i wonder, and please tell me if this is stupid, would it be helpful to be a little cynical about that those thoughts, and challenge them with skepticism? I mean, what exactly about you is so unlovable? Like, do you run over every puppy you can, and hoard all the gumballs? Have you ever tried to come up with some good reasons that support you being unlovable, or have you only tried to convince yourself, that you're lovable? I'm not trying to be insensitive At All... but really, how can you be so bad? average people are likeable and lovable... even below average people in looks, intelligence, earning power , talent, personal hygiene, whatever, are lovable. surely you don't score low in every area you could assess, if those attributes were even connected to lovability- which they aren't. What about challenging the thinking that some people like your friend are lovable, surely you love her- to some degree, but you are not? Surely you aren't so uniquely flawed. You aren't. it's just your little kid brain thinking there is something wrong with you because your parent wasn't attentive due to their own issues, and kids always think they caused stuff, everything is their fault. It's some kind of magical thinking we all have, when we are kids. We can wish hard and it will come true. Someone told me if i pray Jesus will answer so all the way home from school on those scorching afternoons i prayed my heart out to Jesus to make me a little blue bird that could fly. I prayed every day and really tried to believe. It was disappointing. Or, our parents divorce and we think it's because we left our socks on the floor one too many times. It's sad, kids blame themselves for so much. I hope i didn't come off wrong , i'm seriously trying to be helpful. i humbly admit i can't fully understand the pain you are having but i am sympathetic. oh and here is the attachment style test dianepooleheller.com/attachment-test/it breaks it down a little differently and her site has some good info.
|
|
|
Post by notalone on Aug 11, 2018 2:39:29 GMT
ok going to possibly suck at this, and i am sorry if i am off key. I don't really understand it, but i wonder, and please tell me if this is stupid, would it be helpful to be a little cynical about that those thoughts, and challenge them with skepticism? I mean, what exactly about you is so unlovable? Like, do you run over every puppy you can, and hoard all the gumballs? Have you ever tried to come up with some good reasons that support you being unlovable, or have you only tried to convince yourself, that you're lovable? I'm not trying to be insensitive At All... but really, how can you be so bad? average people are likeable and lovable... even below average people in looks, intelligence, earning power , talent, personal hygiene, whatever, are lovable. surely you don't score low in every area you could assess, if those attributes were even connected to lovability- which they aren't. What about challenging the thinking that some people like your friend are lovable, surely you love her- to some degree, but you are not? Surely you aren't so uniquely flawed. You aren't. it's just your little kid brain thinking there is something wrong with you because your parent wasn't attentive due to their own issues, and kids always think they caused stuff, everything is their fault. It's some kind of magical thinking we all have, when we are kids. We can wish hard and it will come true. Someone told me if i pray Jesus will answer so all the way home from school on those scorching afternoons i prayed my heart out to Jesus to make me a little blue bird that could fly. I prayed every day and really tried to believe. It was disappointing. Or, our parents divorce and we think it's because we left our socks on the floor one too many times. It's sad, kids blame themselves for so much. I hope i didn't come off wrong , i'm seriously trying to be helpful. i humbly admit i can't fully understand the pain you are having but i am sympathetic. oh and here is the attachment style test dianepooleheller.com/attachment-test/it breaks it down a little differently and her site has some good info. Oh June-bug ❤️ You’re the best. Yeah, I run over ALL the puppies and hoard ALL the gum balls! Mua ha ha ha! Seriously though, I think at the base of it is knowing how depressed I get and how obsessive I get just gives me this idea that if anyone really knew me they’d run for the hills, like being close to me is a terrible burden. I know I have great qualities too, but this part of me, which I hide from most people, overshadows all the good stuff to me, and makes me feel unlovable and undesirable.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 2:46:55 GMT
oh good that post of mine was really clumsy lol.
well, i had a very good friend who really struggled with depression and anxiety and agoraphobia and i really liked her a lot. she and i went different ways because our kids hated each other, they all had trauma and it was stressful . But, as a friend, she was caring, very validating, hilarious, and could always empathize with how i felt. she had a cute quirky way about her because she felt self conscious but she was a good friend.
i bet your friend really means she misses you. lots of people feel compassion for depression and anxiety, especially if a nice person suffers with it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 2:52:36 GMT
but really it's just that you judge yourself really harshly, isn't it. it isn't about what other people think- it's what you think.
It isn't so much you need everyone else to love you, you want to love yourself.
|
|
|
Post by notalone on Aug 11, 2018 3:13:50 GMT
oh good that post of mine was really clumsy lol. well, i had a very good friend who really struggled with depression and anxiety and agoraphobia and i really liked her a lot. she and i went different ways because our kids hated each other, they all had trauma and it was stressful . But, as a friend, she was caring, very validating, hilarious, and could always empathize with how i felt. she had a cute quirky way about her because she felt self conscious but she was a good friend. i bet your friend really means she misses you. lots of people feel compassion for depression and anxiety, especially if a nice person suffers with it. It’s funny you know, some of my closest friends suffer from depression and they’re awesome people. I guess I can be too. 😌 I think when I’m in dysfunctional romantic situations, my view of myself gets tainted by negativity, and it carries over into how I see myself overall. When I’m in a healthy relationship or doing ok on my own, I tend to feel much less badly about myself.
|
|
|
Post by notalone on Aug 11, 2018 3:19:25 GMT
but really it's just that you judge yourself really harshly, isn't it. it isn't about what other people think- it's what you think. It isn't so much you need everyone else to love you, you want to love yourself. It’s true. That’s the goal.
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Aug 11, 2018 9:43:28 GMT
I feel you there, notalone. I have it like you, and it has been so all my life. It comes down to silencing that inner critic that keeps telling us that we are worth nothing, that we are defective and unlovable. This voice in us (generally coming straight from our parents) takes way too much space in our daily inner dialogue. It is very convincing and keeps coming back for more, especially when you are in a weakened position. When it comes to receiving compliments and love from friends, I can say that I have an easier time than I used to for accepting them. It no longer clashes with my inner beliefs as much as it used to. When it comes to romantic relationships though, I feel unfortunately just as unlovable as always (attracting DAs doesn't help either....but now I manage to pull away from them quite quickly). Yesterday, I told a colleague at work, who's becoming a friend, that I've always struggled with depression, anxiety and very low self-esteem. This came into the discussion as he asked me about my dating life (I've been single for 4 years, after a 7 year long relationship with a secure person). Since he enquired about the reasons of our breakup, I told him that it was mostly due to those issues. What a surprise for him! He would have never guessed. To him, I am this super friendly, social, likeable person, who does lots of super interesting things in life. Perhaps I can hide it this well because I act like a secure person in friendships, something that I cannot do in romantic relationships (at least, not for long). Even in friendships though, it feels like my insecurity is so obvious! Especially my constant self-doubt. I still crave attention, love and compliments. As for tools and how to change....I am currently reading "Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving", by Pete Walker. It's not exactly about attachment theory, but goes one level deeper. It applies to all those who've had some sort of developmental trauma in childchood, through abandonment, neglect etc...I'd recommend it to anyone struggling with chronic depression and anxiety, shame and low self-esteem. It seems more appropriate for those with an anxious attachment, but I think his analyses and tools can also be applied for dismissive and fearful attachments. His tools focus on reducing the power of the inner critic through mindfulness, self-compassion and grieving work for the inner wounded child in us. Nothing exactly revolutionary, but the whole package is very comprehensive and integrative, he addresses so many layers at the same time. He also brings up chronology in it, what to do when. He is also a recovered cPSTD sufferer, working now as a psychotherapist. What Juniper wrote is true. We anxious feel that we need everyone else to love us, while what we really need is to love ourselves. I'm still convinced though (and this is something backed by all the therapists I've had) that receiving and accepting love from others, in all its forms, helps us towards this goal of managing to love ourselves. The emotional part of our brain needs to be swayed this way, to counteract our real emotional memories from rejection and abandonment in childhood. We can't do this alone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 10:10:17 GMT
As a recovering AP, I wouldn't say that I have / am unable to receive real love / intimacy nor deflected it...? Does any of this sound familiar to you? I have a history of not trusting people, deflecting compliments, apologizing too much, being suspicious when someone acts enthusiastic about me quickly, not allowing people to give to me, feeling like I can't tell them how I feel... It all stems from feeling undeserving. Specific examples are things like someone would try to buy me dinner and I would insist on paying my share, or my boss would say, "Good job on that presentation," and I'd say, "Oh I made so many mistakes, I could have done much better," or someone would ask me how I was doing and listen to my problems and I'd say, "I'm sorry for talking so much about this." And I still often have a tough time talking to people about what I want/need or how I feel for them. Recently I told someone I felt like I had to be perfect in order to be loved and they said, "I think you are perfect," and it made me so uncomfortable. I often fear that people will say/do things just to be "nice" that they don't mean, and sometimes they DO, which only reinforces my worry that I can't take it at face value when someone is nice to me. Hi happyidiot All that stuff I overcame a long time ago - yes, the being nice thing is part of AP. However, I don't believe I didn't feel worthy of love. I used to act lovingly towards my caregivers and over time learnt that it was they who couldn't handle it, not me, so I adjusted to them. However, if you met me you would see how love is at the centre of my being, it always has been. It upsets some, especially my caregivers and those around them, because they can't express it - I believe that is partly why I received so much abuse. The difference is that I didn't feel I was worthy of compliments / success, etc, rather than love. My connection with love was learnt though animals and their unconditional love and my unconditional love for them - that is how I learnt growing up.I don't believe I ever pushed away love itself, but after having my self-worth beaten out of me, rather chose others in the past who I thought would match my contradicted lower sense of worth and who then 'proved' to me that I am not worthy. Maybe I am different as an AP or maybe that is standard - but someone else posted recently about an AP's contradictory self-worth: in that you don't believe you are worthy on one hand but do on the other, so you get upset when the other doesn't show it to you (but not in an arrogant way, IME).
|
|