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Post by tnr9 on Aug 11, 2018 16:53:21 GMT
Sad to hear that you've had that happen to you. It has actually happened once to me, about 20 years ago in my late teens. Someone who could no longer deal with my anxiety, because I wasn't "willing to change".
How is it today? Do you still have some reliable friends?
Like tnr9 said, we've all been there. Totally understand the feeling of craving romantic love or even just normal friendly attention from some DA, despite having ended things with them. I find myself in the same situation these days. I was proud of myself to have ended things for my own sake, but this DA is still playing the push/pull dynamic in the "friendship" we kept. I also need to put an end to this, somehow... I have some good friends still, yes. I’m just always scared I’ll push them away. I understand the fear...I really, really do...the true friends will stick by you no matter what. I have a friend who was so very disappointed in my clinging to B...because she wants so much more for me...but she has said that no matter what..she will stick by my side. That really has helped me to be more vunerable with her...knowing that she will stick around. |
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Post by alpenglow on Aug 11, 2018 16:57:26 GMT
Great example, tnr9 ! This happened recently to me as well. One very good friend, who knew everything about my current dating a DA, pushed me hard to stay confident and secure in the beginning. When he also understood that this woman was DA (even though he's not super fond of attachment theory), he urged me to severe ties with her, because he was genuinely concerned about my well-being. He also said that he'd stuck to my side if I chose to pursue things further with that DA. It also helped me to become even more vulnerable with that friend! (and the bar was already set very high). |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 17:10:54 GMT
i'm sorry notalone, alpenglow, tnr9i have driven away friends when i was going through the anxiety and pain of ptsd and it was overwhelming to them. so, i have had friends break up with me too and it hurts and is humiliating. i know that your understanding of each other is the most helpful , that your camaraderie is the best medicine. i support you all in your healing, and hope i don't cause pain. yay again for this forum. 🌸 |
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Post by alpenglow on Aug 11, 2018 17:41:25 GMT
No worries, juniper, you didn't cause me any pain at least! Sad to hear about the friends who left you... But yeah, having each other and knowing that we're not alone in dealing with this is quite a good comfort! |
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Post by notalone on Aug 11, 2018 18:39:21 GMT
i'm sorry notalone, alpenglow, tnr9i have driven away friends when i was going through the anxiety and pain of ptsd and it was overwhelming to them. so, i have had friends break up with me too and it hurts and is humiliating. i know that your understanding of each other is the most helpful , that your camaraderie is the best medicine. i support you all in your healing, and hope i don't cause pain. yay again for this forum. 🌸 Juniper...I really appreciate you and your support. ❤️ It’s a great comfort to know you’re here. |
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Post by notalone on Aug 11, 2018 18:53:46 GMT
I respect that sometimes people need to distance themselves and have boundaries to take care of themselves. One friend wasn’t capable of doing this and ghosted me, out of the blue, without any indication she was uncomfortable, she just blocked me and disappeared, at a time I was in a very bad and dangerous place, and that really hurt. I know the way she handled it reflects on her and her own struggles. Other friends have been able to have healthy boundaries and support me without comprising themselves. I’m really grateful for them.
Ultimately, the insecurity I feel isn’t about anyone but me. I have a lot of fear. I’m affraid of abandonment. I’m afraid to be alone. Im affraid of the pain that comes up when I’m alone. It’s deep inside me and something I need to work on. I can’t get started with my new therapist soon enough. In the mean time, you guys have been so helpful, and I’m really grateful I found you. Thank-you all for being so open, honest, and supportive.
❤️
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Post by alpenglow on Aug 11, 2018 20:26:13 GMT
Very sad to hear about the friend who ghosted you without any warning. Very insightful to realise that her action reflected on her and her own struggles. And I know what you mean about other friends with healthy boundaries who do not compromise themselves. The few times this happens with me, my friends do let me know in a kind way, and their reassuring and secure way of doing so does not make me feel rejected. Your last two lines felt like reading my own thoughts, notalone. Let's hope that your new therapist will be able to help you put you on the right path to heal! |
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Post by happyidiot on Aug 11, 2018 20:32:14 GMT
Hi happyidiot  All that stuff I overcame a long time ago - yes, the being nice thing is part of AP. However, I don't believe I didn't feel worthy of love. I used to act lovingly towards my caregivers and over time learnt that it was they who couldn't handle it, not me, so I adjusted to them. However, if you met me you would see how love is at the centre of my being, it always has been. It upsets some, especially my caregivers and those around them, because they can't express it - I believe that is partly why I received so much abuse. The difference is that I didn't feel I was worthy of compliments / success, etc, rather than love. My connection with love was learnt though animals and their unconditional love and my unconditional love for them - that is how I learnt growing up.I don't believe I ever pushed away love itself, but after having my self-worth beaten out of me, rather chose others in the past who I thought would match my contradicted lower sense of worth and who then 'proved' to me that I am not worthy. Maybe I am different as an AP or maybe that is standard - but someone else posted recently about an AP's contradictory self-worth: in that you don't believe you are worthy on one hand but do on the other, so you get upset when the other doesn't show it to you (but not in an arrogant way, IME). This is an interesting distinction. I don't think I push away love itself exactly. I do have people who clearly love me and have demonstrated that consistently over time, and I believe it. When I was in a long relationship with a secure person, I didn't question whether he was telling the truth about loving me or feel uncomfortable with being loved that much. I sometimes felt undeserving of things like his generosity and patience and compliments though. It's hard to explain. I like the idea of contradictory self-worth. Maybe I feel like I am worthy of love but the things I do are not? Which leads to thinking if only I behave perfectly then the person will love me. If I really thought I wasn't worthy of love at all then I wouldn't be surprised when someone I love doesn't love me back. Instead I think to myself that I want and deserve their love, I just did such a poor job at things and behaved in such dumb ways that I pushed the potential for their love away instead of fostering its growth. And maybe I did. So I blame myself if someone doesn't love me, because I think I didn't allow them to grow to love me, not because I think I'm completely unloveable. But how do we even know if someone loves us? You can love someone and still leave them. Maybe I need to go out and connect with an animal... |
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Post by alpenglow on Aug 11, 2018 20:54:48 GMT
What you wrote makes sense, happyidiot. I think you're right, if we had truly no self-worth at all, then we wouldn't be so devasted when someone doesn't love us in return. So we're back to this idea of intermitten reinforcement. Part of the definition of an AP is a compulsion for perfection through actions in order to receive love. This is why many are us are perfectionists. It's a consequence of the belief we inherited as children, that if we did not receive the love we deserved, this was because we did something wrong. Only by making things right, would we be loved. And this often worked in our dysfunctional homes, where love and attention were given to us on a conditional basis. Through good grades at school, or good behaviour, whatever. This also explains why APs keep blaming themselves when a relationship fails, and all the rumination about the "what if's". How do we know if someone truly loves us? Good question. We tie it so closely to not being abandonned, left behind. You seem a bit luckier than I was in a relationship with a secure. I didn't directly blamed my ex for not loving me, and I wasn't jealous at all, I wasn't worried about things ending, but I still felt alone/not loved in this relationship, primarily because I didn't feel understood. She acted as my therapist but she didn't seem to be really interested in truly understanding me. I feel this frustration with my friends sometimes as well. And because I am so interested in psychology and all the jargon that comes with it, most people can't follow...and are purely not so interested in understanding things at such an abstract level. But this forum is great for that! Connecting with an animal is great....a rich source of unconditional love! |
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Post by leavethelighton on Aug 11, 2018 23:50:44 GMT
It's easier now that I'm actually a parent, but I think even if you're not, you could imagine the sort of unconditional love you might have for a child. They'd make mistakes, be hard to deal with sometimes, be frustrating at times, be a totally flawed person-- and yet you would still love them and see the good in them. Even if they committed some horrible crime that sent them to jail for life, you would love them, that kind of love.
So-- any way to view yourself with at least some of that? What would someone who loved you in that way see in you? There must be a lot of awesomeness. You probably do 1,000 lovely, thoughtful, kind, meaningful things a day.
If the unconditional love parent metaphor doesn't work for you, perhaps some other one would (a spiritual/religious one like God or angels or a guru or something, or an imaginary ideal lover or something...)
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 12, 2018 2:18:38 GMT
It's easier now that I'm actually a parent, but I think even if you're not, you could imagine the sort of unconditional love you might have for a child. They'd make mistakes, be hard to deal with sometimes, be frustrating at times, be a totally flawed person-- and yet you would still love them and see the good in them. Even if they committed some horrible crime that sent them to jail for life, you would love them, that kind of love. So-- any way to view yourself with at least some of that? What would someone who loved you in that way see in you? There must be a lot of awesomeness. You probably do 1,000 lovely, thoughtful, kind, meaningful things a day. If the unconditional love parent metaphor doesn't work for you, perhaps some other one would (a spiritual/religious one like God or angels or a guru or something, or an imaginary ideal lover or something...) I am a Christian and I will confess it was incredibly hard to grasp the unconditional love of God/Jesus for many decades...but I have (within the last year) begun to experience glimpses of that love in the form of some lovely images. It has really helped me. |
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