Post by Dana on Mar 11, 2017 23:34:48 GMT
I spent four months in a relationship that brought out maladaptive neuroticism in me that I had spent years working through in therapy. I have been dating for about a year now after a few years post-divorce/therapy, and was able to end most of the relationships amicably and mutually. In this case, it hits me hard and I feel sick. I just don't know if this man is more secure or more avoidant. I am grateful for any feedback you might offer.
I'm a very accomplished, successful woman - a single mother who makes a good income, has several hobbies, attends many social events and has a large friends circle, and is constantly taking on new challenges. I'm very independent and not "needy" in the sense of needing a man's time or constant companionship. I have a complete life.
I started dating a therapist - a single father who has his kids 50/50 and is essentially a workaholic. From our first date, when we discussed why previous relationships had failed, I started feeling some red flags. I ignored the red flags because I could see that he is a genuinely nice, stable, and sweet person, and that I needed to be patient and accepting.
Here were the flags:
--he would talk about "being guarded," "being jaded," and blame this not only on getting burnt but also on the nature of his work as an LMFT. He said that dating a therapist is always hard because they are "vessels of others' emotions" and due to the nature of their work can't always be emotionally invested at home
--he did not use a language of commitment but rather what drove me nuts - it seemed to be of hypotheticals. Literally he would say he is "consistently inconsistent," or that there are "no guarantees in life," or "if," "it depends," "variety is the spice of life," "yes and no" --I never felt like he was committed to me, or as if everything is a joke to him. I realize there are no guarantees but I am personally a doer - if I set my mind to doing something, I'm in 100% to succeed or fail, not just dipping one to in at a time.
--he seemed to blame all relationship failures on his lifestyle - that he has his kids 50/50, or that he works so much, or that he doesn't want more children. I said these were excuses, since I wasn't looking for more time together, but rather quality of time to be more intimate and meaningful
--his conversations were limited to a rundown of "here's what I did today," and if I said I wanted to know how he felt about his work or learned from it, he'd look at me as if I was speaking a foreign language or can't tell me "due to the nature of my work"
--he had some small "hobbies" that included collecting rocks, amateur photography, and wanting to learn guitar. But if I tried to dig deep and find out why he liked the rocks or what the meaning was behind a photo he took, it would always be a shallow response like "it just looked nice to me" --when I offered to teach him guitar, he didn't have a genuine interest in learning music but rather "teach me how to rock like Slash." I don't know if this is normal. I have a PhD and an MS, so I'm used to having deeper conversations about things or seeing people take on hobbies from a true passion to learn all about that hobby.
--He prefers sofa dates that literally involved spending hours in his bed just cuddling in silence while he channel surfs or makes lots of jokes
--he said he needs affirmation to feel good in a relationship. That struck me as insecure but I agreed to it.
--I'd send him racy photos and textual fantasies and all kinds of sweet things just to keep it spicy. He would respond with template language like "you're so amazing" or "you're so beautiful" - it never felt as if he was actually turned on by it. I started feeling that this was a person who did not desire me. I made suggestions to model appropriate language and emojis, and he would try, but then got burnt out on trying and said our communication styles are just different. "If I text to ask how you are, I'm obviously desiring you." I told him that my friends send more intimate check-ins like specifically "how was class today" or "hey, is your arm feeling better" - not generic things that you can send to your coworker to check in...he didn't get it.
--when I asked for more intimacy, he said "I give you my time. That's proof that I care about you. I don't give my time to others except for my children. I talk to you more than any of my friends or my parents even." I told him time means nothing if we are just being mundane, and I need quality of time, not more time. I suggested maybe talking or seeing each other less in exchange for more quality, and he said "that doesn't work for me, because I need to hear your voice and connect with you"
--he'd constantly talk about having to avoid depression and how he has chronic pain. He had terrible sleep hygiene but would always need to take melatonin and keep his work and personal phone turned on at night "in case I'm needed." It made sleeping with him impossible.
--terrible body image issues. He lost about 100 lbs but still has a ton of sagging skin and a pear-shaped body. I'd try to reassure him that he is attractive. But then there was a narcissistic side that was almost metrosexual obsessive. He needed to hear he was attractive.
--doesn't like planning anything because "I'm bad at it" (so most dates out, I planned and thereby paid for, and started to feel resentment about it)
--Sexually, I couldn't climax with him. I felt no emotional connection, and his sexual approach was so clumsy. When I brought up that there was little foreplay (in a constructive manner), he simply said "there's lots' of foreplay between us"). When I asked why no oral sex or body exploration, he'd say "I'm just not good at those things." He would also say his ex-wife disliked giving oral, so he had to get accustomed to me giving it to him. He wouldn't have morning sex because "my body isn't woken up," and pretty much the whole process was predictable and always in his bed. Not a single time was it passionate or on-the-go.
--he had moved from his parent's home at age 18 pretty much in with his now ex-wife. She took his virginity, they had kids, they stayed together for 16 years. He went back to her 3x, all of which she cheated on him supposedly because he got depressed due to his work schedule and couldn't be available. His only other serious relationships were of about 3-4 months and included an alcoholic and an emotionally volatile woman who got clingy on him by date #2. His ex-wife, who is 43, had major gastric bypass surgery and lost a ton of weight, then had a heart attack...and has characteristics of a borderline personality. So while I realize I'm a bit eccentric, it did wear thin on me that he seems to have a history of dating really unstable, uneducated women.
I could list so much more but essentially we are both intelligent and well-meaning people. I was thinking of breaking up with him for weeks and would bring up concerns, and he'd say things like "opposites attract," "the honeymoon phase is overrated," "you're just nervous because this is a serious thing we have," and I'd buy into it and ignore my intuition. THEN, when he broke up with me, I basically freaked out and have now had a hard time dealing with the rejection that I myself have felt about him for months!
I tried to express my emotions without making demands, but I became paranoid over time. For example, this Sunday night I had not seen him for 10 days, and we had a date out to the coffee shop. I was dressed up and ready to have a meaningful chat about a theory or a book or something that interested him...so we go to the date, and he starts to give me his usual rundown of what he has to do at work tomorrow...I said I understand these types of conversations are necessary for quickies during the week...but for a date when you haven't seen me in 10 days?
He basically got burnt out and said he couldn't be the man I need. Kept saying that he is "even keeled" and that my "hypomania" just doesn't feel his style. But when he broke up with me, it was via email, and there were a bunch of wishy-washy messages in there about how we need to break up because our styles aren't a good combination, but "I never say never....maybe down the line it's a possibility...I want you in my life for a long time but I don't know how that will be possible right now...I'm not saying it can't work, but for this to work we both need to work on some individual issues separately from the relationship" --I finally got him to call me to break up, and I asked him "are we deleting contact information, dating others, throwing out photos, moving on as if we'll never talk again...or are we just taking a break to work on individual issues"? He said the former, but not deleting contact information. I mean...when you're done, you're done.
So I feel at fault now. Is he a secure person and I drove him nuts with my demands for some basic emotional intimacy? To keep telling him I wasn't feeling an emotional connection, or that his language felt inauthentic and sterile? Yes, I became increasingly insecure as the relationship progressed. Yes, I started putting 250% in as my anxiety rose and as I became more desperate. I kept asking him, "What are we going to build?" "How are we going to become friends if we have these basic conversations?" He would keep saying he needed more time to open up, and it would happen slowly...but then got to the point where he felt I was just demanding too much too soon and that nothing was good enough for me.
So I admit that this relationship brought out the anxious in me. I have plenty of healthy relationships and even dated men who told me from day one that they weren't looking for an LTR and could I be okay with that, and I was fine because they were straight forward and it never felt wishy-washy or inauthentic.
The funny thing in this situation is that from week 1 I kept finding excuses not to like him ---there is so much that I'm not attracted to in him from his looks to sex ability to lack of intellect to lack of meaningful hobbies to lack of self-care...but I stayed because I generally seek dynamic guys who end up hurting me, and I figured "If I'm bored or feel we aren't connecting, it's because I'm not content with a secure, kind, stable person."
But is that the case here? Is he secure and "even-keeled", or is he more avoidant? Is my preoccupied approach the sole source of a potentially healthy relationship ending?
thanks for reading.
I'm a very accomplished, successful woman - a single mother who makes a good income, has several hobbies, attends many social events and has a large friends circle, and is constantly taking on new challenges. I'm very independent and not "needy" in the sense of needing a man's time or constant companionship. I have a complete life.
I started dating a therapist - a single father who has his kids 50/50 and is essentially a workaholic. From our first date, when we discussed why previous relationships had failed, I started feeling some red flags. I ignored the red flags because I could see that he is a genuinely nice, stable, and sweet person, and that I needed to be patient and accepting.
Here were the flags:
--he would talk about "being guarded," "being jaded," and blame this not only on getting burnt but also on the nature of his work as an LMFT. He said that dating a therapist is always hard because they are "vessels of others' emotions" and due to the nature of their work can't always be emotionally invested at home
--he did not use a language of commitment but rather what drove me nuts - it seemed to be of hypotheticals. Literally he would say he is "consistently inconsistent," or that there are "no guarantees in life," or "if," "it depends," "variety is the spice of life," "yes and no" --I never felt like he was committed to me, or as if everything is a joke to him. I realize there are no guarantees but I am personally a doer - if I set my mind to doing something, I'm in 100% to succeed or fail, not just dipping one to in at a time.
--he seemed to blame all relationship failures on his lifestyle - that he has his kids 50/50, or that he works so much, or that he doesn't want more children. I said these were excuses, since I wasn't looking for more time together, but rather quality of time to be more intimate and meaningful
--his conversations were limited to a rundown of "here's what I did today," and if I said I wanted to know how he felt about his work or learned from it, he'd look at me as if I was speaking a foreign language or can't tell me "due to the nature of my work"
--he had some small "hobbies" that included collecting rocks, amateur photography, and wanting to learn guitar. But if I tried to dig deep and find out why he liked the rocks or what the meaning was behind a photo he took, it would always be a shallow response like "it just looked nice to me" --when I offered to teach him guitar, he didn't have a genuine interest in learning music but rather "teach me how to rock like Slash." I don't know if this is normal. I have a PhD and an MS, so I'm used to having deeper conversations about things or seeing people take on hobbies from a true passion to learn all about that hobby.
--He prefers sofa dates that literally involved spending hours in his bed just cuddling in silence while he channel surfs or makes lots of jokes
--he said he needs affirmation to feel good in a relationship. That struck me as insecure but I agreed to it.
--I'd send him racy photos and textual fantasies and all kinds of sweet things just to keep it spicy. He would respond with template language like "you're so amazing" or "you're so beautiful" - it never felt as if he was actually turned on by it. I started feeling that this was a person who did not desire me. I made suggestions to model appropriate language and emojis, and he would try, but then got burnt out on trying and said our communication styles are just different. "If I text to ask how you are, I'm obviously desiring you." I told him that my friends send more intimate check-ins like specifically "how was class today" or "hey, is your arm feeling better" - not generic things that you can send to your coworker to check in...he didn't get it.
--when I asked for more intimacy, he said "I give you my time. That's proof that I care about you. I don't give my time to others except for my children. I talk to you more than any of my friends or my parents even." I told him time means nothing if we are just being mundane, and I need quality of time, not more time. I suggested maybe talking or seeing each other less in exchange for more quality, and he said "that doesn't work for me, because I need to hear your voice and connect with you"
--he'd constantly talk about having to avoid depression and how he has chronic pain. He had terrible sleep hygiene but would always need to take melatonin and keep his work and personal phone turned on at night "in case I'm needed." It made sleeping with him impossible.
--terrible body image issues. He lost about 100 lbs but still has a ton of sagging skin and a pear-shaped body. I'd try to reassure him that he is attractive. But then there was a narcissistic side that was almost metrosexual obsessive. He needed to hear he was attractive.
--doesn't like planning anything because "I'm bad at it" (so most dates out, I planned and thereby paid for, and started to feel resentment about it)
--Sexually, I couldn't climax with him. I felt no emotional connection, and his sexual approach was so clumsy. When I brought up that there was little foreplay (in a constructive manner), he simply said "there's lots' of foreplay between us"). When I asked why no oral sex or body exploration, he'd say "I'm just not good at those things." He would also say his ex-wife disliked giving oral, so he had to get accustomed to me giving it to him. He wouldn't have morning sex because "my body isn't woken up," and pretty much the whole process was predictable and always in his bed. Not a single time was it passionate or on-the-go.
--he had moved from his parent's home at age 18 pretty much in with his now ex-wife. She took his virginity, they had kids, they stayed together for 16 years. He went back to her 3x, all of which she cheated on him supposedly because he got depressed due to his work schedule and couldn't be available. His only other serious relationships were of about 3-4 months and included an alcoholic and an emotionally volatile woman who got clingy on him by date #2. His ex-wife, who is 43, had major gastric bypass surgery and lost a ton of weight, then had a heart attack...and has characteristics of a borderline personality. So while I realize I'm a bit eccentric, it did wear thin on me that he seems to have a history of dating really unstable, uneducated women.
I could list so much more but essentially we are both intelligent and well-meaning people. I was thinking of breaking up with him for weeks and would bring up concerns, and he'd say things like "opposites attract," "the honeymoon phase is overrated," "you're just nervous because this is a serious thing we have," and I'd buy into it and ignore my intuition. THEN, when he broke up with me, I basically freaked out and have now had a hard time dealing with the rejection that I myself have felt about him for months!
I tried to express my emotions without making demands, but I became paranoid over time. For example, this Sunday night I had not seen him for 10 days, and we had a date out to the coffee shop. I was dressed up and ready to have a meaningful chat about a theory or a book or something that interested him...so we go to the date, and he starts to give me his usual rundown of what he has to do at work tomorrow...I said I understand these types of conversations are necessary for quickies during the week...but for a date when you haven't seen me in 10 days?
He basically got burnt out and said he couldn't be the man I need. Kept saying that he is "even keeled" and that my "hypomania" just doesn't feel his style. But when he broke up with me, it was via email, and there were a bunch of wishy-washy messages in there about how we need to break up because our styles aren't a good combination, but "I never say never....maybe down the line it's a possibility...I want you in my life for a long time but I don't know how that will be possible right now...I'm not saying it can't work, but for this to work we both need to work on some individual issues separately from the relationship" --I finally got him to call me to break up, and I asked him "are we deleting contact information, dating others, throwing out photos, moving on as if we'll never talk again...or are we just taking a break to work on individual issues"? He said the former, but not deleting contact information. I mean...when you're done, you're done.
So I feel at fault now. Is he a secure person and I drove him nuts with my demands for some basic emotional intimacy? To keep telling him I wasn't feeling an emotional connection, or that his language felt inauthentic and sterile? Yes, I became increasingly insecure as the relationship progressed. Yes, I started putting 250% in as my anxiety rose and as I became more desperate. I kept asking him, "What are we going to build?" "How are we going to become friends if we have these basic conversations?" He would keep saying he needed more time to open up, and it would happen slowly...but then got to the point where he felt I was just demanding too much too soon and that nothing was good enough for me.
So I admit that this relationship brought out the anxious in me. I have plenty of healthy relationships and even dated men who told me from day one that they weren't looking for an LTR and could I be okay with that, and I was fine because they were straight forward and it never felt wishy-washy or inauthentic.
The funny thing in this situation is that from week 1 I kept finding excuses not to like him ---there is so much that I'm not attracted to in him from his looks to sex ability to lack of intellect to lack of meaningful hobbies to lack of self-care...but I stayed because I generally seek dynamic guys who end up hurting me, and I figured "If I'm bored or feel we aren't connecting, it's because I'm not content with a secure, kind, stable person."
But is that the case here? Is he secure and "even-keeled", or is he more avoidant? Is my preoccupied approach the sole source of a potentially healthy relationship ending?
thanks for reading.
